31 replies to this topic

[vtrader]

In my 30s I feel like I am getting more dumb and stupid as the years pass by. My memory has gone downhill so has my attention. Being on the ball is a very rare feeling, feel very unmovitated, and blunt as a rock. Things I use to pick up on quickly just pass me by now.
I always feel like that slow dull guy in every social situation.
What can I do?

I've tried the racetams(pir,pra,ani,oxi,noo), nothing really gives me any noticable change, sometimes it feels like they have an opposite effect.

[Major Legend]

i'm late 20s and testosterone supplementation has made me perk up loads. I feel great for now. Check out lostfalco's thread.

[norepinephrine]

I felt a bit like this after taking a year off school and inadvertantly taking in way too much choline on a daily basis before knowing better (via massive egg consumption in line with resistance training).

I'd definitely recommend a regular aerobic exercise and meditation regimen, as both are well supported by the literature, and generally free. From there, bacopa has been a godsend for my memory (with deep sleep being the only thing to rival it), ALCAR has certainly helped focus (though doesn't seem to provide much in the way of motivation), and taking piracetam on a chronic low dosage enhances my clarity of thought (whereas a higher dose, say >2.5g, just seems to bring on side effects with more anxiolytic effect than cognitive gain).

As far as motivation, phenylpiracetam has been probably the most sustainable option I've found (in the sense that it seems to be pretty benign with time off), whereas amphetamine is the gold standard of non-sustainable options. As Major Legend posted above, testosterone can also do wonders - I'd pursue the natural route (i.e., optimize sleep+diet, and lift heavy/do HIIT) before going for herbs/prescriptions, so as to avoid potential downregulation.

Edited by norepinephrine, 04 July 2013 - 05:27 PM.

[hippocampus]

What do you eat?
Use cron-o-meter for a month and see which micronutrients you're missing (most probably zinc, magnesium, omega-3, folate - all important for the brain). Then fix your diet (2-3 veggies, 2-3 fruits a day, a handful of nuts - hazelnuts, almonds and similar, olive oil and so on, and very important - no refined sugar! - just eat sugar that comes in natural form in veggies and in fruits and similar ...) and if there isn't much you can do with your diet, use supplements.
Also exercise, stress management, meditation, social network (having friends is very important!), sleep hygiene. And if you still have problems after that, then visit a doctor (also visit doctor if you noticed massive changes in memory and cognition - in this case it may be a disease, you never know ...).

[vtrader]

My hormones over the last year have changed so much, before I could take maca and that would get me going but now does nothing even at high dosages. I tried phenylpircatem, it only gave me a alcar type alert feeling, I still felt dumb.
I started hiting the weights and also take zma, but that just makes me feel grogy the next day, so only take it on none work days. Could it be the diet coke, that's the only addional constant that I've been taking 1 can nearly everyday?
Yeah , I think I need to go back to basics again.

[Tom_]

You are exhibiting signs of depression. Lack of motivation, not feeling 'on the ball', cognitive disturbances and anhedonia. If you are having sleeping disturbances and or changes in appetite that seals the deal.

I'm more than happy to advise on treatment but I'm quite sure everyone will disagree with me.

[hippocampus]

It's best to first rule out biological causes, like nutrition, lack of exercise and so on, no serious or special treatment is needed in this stage yet.

[xks201]

You are exhibiting signs of depression. Lack of motivation, not feeling 'on the ball', cognitive disturbances and anhedonia. If you are having sleeping disturbances and or changes in appetite that seals the deal.

I'm more than happy to advise on treatment but I'm quite sure everyone will disagree with me.

I am very curious to hear your treatment as I have a similar problem. thanks.

[Tom_]

You are exhibiting signs of depression. Lack of motivation, not feeling 'on the ball', cognitive disturbances and anhedonia. If you are having sleeping disturbances and or changes in appetite that seals the deal.

I'm more than happy to advise on treatment but I'm quite sure everyone will disagree with me.

I am very curious to hear your treatment as I have a similar problem. thanks.

Make your own thread or PM me and I'd be more than happy to give my 2 cent on it.

[health_nutty]

You are exhibiting signs of depression. Lack of motivation, not feeling 'on the ball', cognitive disturbances and anhedonia. If you are having sleeping disturbances and or changes in appetite that seals the deal.

I'm more than happy to advise on treatment but I'm quite sure everyone will disagree with me.

I am very curious to hear your treatment as I have a similar problem. thanks.

Make your own thread or PM me and I'd be more than happy to give my 2 cent on it.

I'm also interested.

[Adaptogen]

interested here as well

[nightlight]

Maybe you have a wrong job and lack passion for the work. Find something to do that makes you forget about yourself. With brain, like with every other facility, it's use it or lose it.

[vtrader]

I do have depression, and yes I work in a crapy mind numbing dead end job, those are a big factor. In my 20s I used to have a lot of passion and drive, but never got anywhere, so I am where I am today. I use to have a lot of interests, but none of that gets me fired up anymore.
I have had some threapy through the NHS, but there is only so many sessions I can get for free.
Even if I was given a perfect job tomorrow, I don't think I could do it anymore. damn I'm screwed.

[BLimitless]

My hormones over the last year have changed so much, before I could take maca and that would get me going but now does nothing even at high dosages. I tried phenylpircatem, it only gave me a alcar type alert feeling, I still felt dumb.
I started hiting the weights and also take zma, but that just makes me feel grogy the next day, so only take it on none work days. Could it be the diet coke, that's the only addional constant that I've been taking 1 can nearly everyday?
Yeah , I think I need to go back to basics again.

How long have you been drinking 1 diet coke a day from?


Are you aware of how dangerous aspartame (in diet coke) can be?

[Major Legend]

I do have depression, and yes I work in a crapy mind numbing dead end job, those are a big factor. In my 20s I used to have a lot of passion and drive, but never got anywhere, so I am where I am today. I use to have a lot of interests, but none of that gets me fired up anymore.
I have had some threapy through the NHS, but there is only so many sessions I can get for free.
Even if I was given a perfect job tomorrow, I don't think I could do it anymore. damn I'm screwed.

England made me depressed, I moved out of London to Hong Kong and haven't regretted it ever since.

Europe is just a deadzone for now.

edit: alot of people would consider you lucky, I knew a lot of people in UK who couldn't even find a mind numbing dead end job, now they are supposed to be grateful if they make 12k a year in a call center. There are just too many problems with England, unless you are part of the blue blood (you know the type) or a high paid professional, i'd say for people who want to make something of themselves - get out lol.

Edited by Major Legend, 07 July 2013 - 07:35 AM.

[vtrader]

I do have depression, and yes I work in a crapy mind numbing dead end job, those are a big factor. In my 20s I used to have a lot of passion and drive, but never got anywhere, so I am where I am today. I use to have a lot of interests, but none of that gets me fired up anymore.
I have had some threapy through the NHS, but there is only so many sessions I can get for free.
Even if I was given a perfect job tomorrow, I don't think I could do it anymore. damn I'm screwed.

England made me depressed, I moved out of London to Hong Kong and haven't regretted it ever since.

Europe is just a deadzone for now.

edit: alot of people would consider you lucky, I knew a lot of people in UK who couldn't even find a mind numbing dead end job, now they are supposed to be grateful if they make 12k a year in a call center. There are just too many problems with England, unless you are part of the blue blood (you know the type) or a high paid professional, i'd say for people who want to make something of themselves - get out lol.

I've only been drinking diet coke regulary for the last few weeks.

I used to be a creative guy with tons of ideas, I used be interested in lots of things and read many different books everything from quantum physics, history, anything to understand the world better. Heck, even now women don't interest me anymore. I use to be ok with sociallising but now I don't really like sociallising or being around people in general. It feels like I'm in my world and everyone is in a different world.

[Major Legend]

I do have depression, and yes I work in a crapy mind numbing dead end job, those are a big factor. In my 20s I used to have a lot of passion and drive, but never got anywhere, so I am where I am today. I use to have a lot of interests, but none of that gets me fired up anymore.
I have had some threapy through the NHS, but there is only so many sessions I can get for free.
Even if I was given a perfect job tomorrow, I don't think I could do it anymore. damn I'm screwed.

England made me depressed, I moved out of London to Hong Kong and haven't regretted it ever since.

Europe is just a deadzone for now.

edit: alot of people would consider you lucky, I knew a lot of people in UK who couldn't even find a mind numbing dead end job, now they are supposed to be grateful if they make 12k a year in a call center. There are just too many problems with England, unless you are part of the blue blood (you know the type) or a high paid professional, i'd say for people who want to make something of themselves - get out lol.

I've only been drinking diet coke regulary for the last few weeks.

I used to be a creative guy with tons of ideas, I used be interested in lots of things and read many different books everything from quantum physics, history, anything to understand the world better. Heck, even now women don't interest me anymore. I use to be ok with sociallising but now I don't really like sociallising or being around people in general. It feels like I'm in my world and everyone is in a different world.

Diet coke isn't going to cause what you are experiencing....

I think you are experiencing mild depression, I went through this phase before. You are turning inwards because of the lack of external stimulation.

[snazzhands]

I am not a doctor but speaking from my experience here is my take:

You are suffering from depression and that is the main cause of your symptoms. I was like this around 8 months ago with the same feeling of dullness, demotivation and lack of direction. Do you have anxiety as well? I came through the acute depression but was left with major anxiety (things like not going into work because I was so worried about underperforming, then spending the day crying on the floor because I felt worthless - looking back I'm thinking wtf?). I found noopept *really* helped this, basically removed all feelings of worry.

But I'd be cautious of trying to self-medicate your depression as you're in a delicate state really. Try to force yourself to do long, aerobic, focused exercise (running, cycling, swimming), eat lots of fruit and veg and talk to your family about it, those are all things that helped me through when I was feeling shitty and occasionally suicidal. Come off all drugs including (especially) alcohol unless your doctor has prescribed them for a month or so. Don't do anything too stimulating such as pumping iron, playing sport, playing computer games, taking drugs, gambling, debating etc. as these will exhaust you much more than they would if you were mentally healthy. Have faith that your mental abilities, focus and emotional state will improve as you get healthier. Download some hypnosis audio files and listen to them before bed.

The other thing that helped me which I really do not recommend at all was getting hit by a car while cycling. Totally put things into perspective! Please do not seek out a similar experience! Lol.

Noopept helped me when I was already coming out of the depression but it may not have the desired effect when you're in the middle of it.

Best of luck

Edited by snazzhands, 08 July 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[vtrader]

I use to anxiety attacks, but I've manged to get that under control, but nosiy loud people and groups still bug me out. The only time when I feel less depressed is when I am horny as fcuk, I'm briefly assertive, but then my lack of self-belief and esteem stops me from chasing women, and then it's back to the lows.
Unfortuantly the people around me cannot help me, some of them have a habit of reminding me of my failed life. Even if I told them I had suicidel thoughts they would probably laugh and shrug.
More then anything I need a feeling of that things will get better, I really wish there was something like NZT, so it would allow me to use the best of my brain to its full potential.
Social and cultureal groupthinking does not help,

[aghonia]

If the people you have around just produce negative effects, try to go lone wolf for some time. It helped me alot.

[snazzhands]

There is no NZT so forget that right away. Try to stop thinking about what you need and and what you wish there was, I became fixated on the idea of 'what if I won the lottery' when I was in my 'situation' and it really didn't help. Along with this goes the idea that there is 'an answer', in the form of various programmes such as the Hoffman process etc., books, religion, meditation, hypnosis etc - from your tone I don't think there's any danger of that happening to you. These things can be helpful (I found hypnosis helpful for calming me down, a relative did the Hoffman course and it seems to have helped them settle some issues), but they will not cure anything.

The reality is you probably won't achieve half of what you hoped to achieve in your life when you were younger, get used to that idea and stop pressurising yourself with the idea that you have to be this amazingly creative and high achieving person. That is something that has been put on us by our society and and the people that are held in high regard within it. There is no need to 'achieve' anything at all, in fact often by doing so you will just be contributing to the general over-use of resources, and there are many people who derive great satisfaction from simply contributing to their community in some way. The idea of 'being a failure' is again a construct, you have your life and you can do whatever you want with it. Take a look at really 'successful' people and think about what compromises they have made - they often include their family, physical health, happiness, ideals, etc. This isn't just limited to the 1% of the 1% who have made a ton of money or are recognised as geniuses in their field, this can include middle management types as well.

When you are horny it doesn't take away the depression, it just distracts you. And even if your horny episodes were successful in their carnal goal, you wouldn't feel any happier anyway. Promiscuity absolutely does not help with depression, it is just another form of over-stimulation which you need to avoid. Instead try things like I suggested above which have very low or very focused mental stimulation.

Depression is caused by your own psychological reaction to your situation, it can be helped by improving your situation and by improving the way you think about your situation, and partly through medication. The first two are your responsibility, the third is unreliable and doesn't deserve the attention it receives.

If the people around you won't be helpful, try going to church, even if you don't believe any of it (I don't), there are a lot of charitable people who will listen patiently. I'm serious. Through the decline of religion we have been left without a support structure beyond our family (internet forums don't count as you are still being completely solitary), our sense of morality is in tatters and our values have been completely screwed by capitalism. This is something we need to address as a society.


In short, here are some things that help:

Walking/cycling in the countryside
Reading fiction that gives a realistic view of different people's attitudes and situations. I recommend Tolstoy's big 2 and Dickens.
Eating a healthy, balanced diet
Drinking lots of water
Working reasonable hours
Speaking to other people who are willing to listen patiently
Going away for the weekend
Dividing your time evenly between work and rest
Dividing your time evenly between being alone and being with others
Keeping a diary of how you are feeling every day on a scale of 1-5 and looking over it
Doing something spontaneous
Contributing to your community in some way
Acts of kindness
Doing something creative but without any expectation


And here are some things that don't help:

Obsessing over your situation
Self-medicating
Computer games
TV
Drugs
Reading anything unrealistic, patriarchal, sexist or escapist - sci-fi, fantasy, trashy literature, Tom Clancy, Winston Churchill, biographies of 'great men', FHM, philosophy.
Competitive sport
Clubbing
Sex
'Getting a girlfriend'
Worrying about shit like aspartame
The idea of success and failure




Once you have re-balanced your life, then you can start thinking about what you want to achieve and why, but it will take a long time to get to that situation.

[Tom_]

snazzhands, rarely do I read on this site, so much bullshit. I'm frankly disgusted someone upvoted that.

My own advise is coming. Been very busy.

What you have - depression is entirely treatable. The only area I do agree with snazzhands is that meds are unlikely to fix it the problem BY themselves.

Edited by Tom_, 08 July 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[snazzhands]

Tom this is a discussion forum. I'm contributing my ideas. I had depression pretty severely for about half a year and came out the other end, and those are the conclusions I came to, along with what helped me to recover. I'm looking forward to hearing your perspective, and hopefully the OP can get some kind of ideas that work for them from the various suggestions people have offered.

[Tom_]

This is a forum. This particular forum is for the science relating to brain health and theoretical underpinnings.

Find me one good study comparing the likes of Dickens and Tom Clancy as treatments for depression and I will shut my mouth for ever more. Whats more is you will find as you become significantly depressed reading more than a few paragraphs becomes all but impossible, physical activity either becomes hyperactive or retarded, obsessing over situations or past mistakes becomes a symptom not something you have direct control over and well you get the point.

Sex is good for you. People having lots of sex in a relationship or those who are content and HAPPY to have it out of a relationship tend to be in better mental and physical health than those who aren't. Clubbing and socializing provided its not leading to dangerous drug abuse is again good for you from a behavioral stand point. Spending time alone is pretty much the worst thing you can do for depression. Sport of any kind is good for mood and being around people is an added bonus. Success and failure are integral parts of most peoples personalities.

Research is in favor of meds as the most effective treatment for depression, closely followed by behavioral activation & mindfulness and lagging some way behind is CBT. Combination treatment with meds and CBT are about as effective as it gets without more intensive interventions (OT, social work, hospitalization, social skills training, ECT, rTMS..) which tend not to be needed.

vtrader, you said you had lost interest in women. Can you describe your sleeping pattern? To much to little? Disturbed? Are you having thoughts of suicide or self harm? You have described dysphoria and anhedonia. Have you lost or gained more than 2kg in the last month?

What ever your answers are to these questions my most important piece of advice is to get yourself into see the G.P as soon as possible, within 2 weeks if you can. I imagine the G.P will advise medication now that you have proved resistant to a psycho-therapeutic intervention. If he/she doesn't push for medication an SSRI is first line. They will want to prescribe citalopram as its the first line as per NICE guidelines. Ask for sertraline, its nearly as cheap and slightly more effective. Its also more activating. London has a good IAPT (increased access to psychological therapies) and the G.P should re-refer you for a longer 12-16 week course of CBT.

I've laid into snazzhands pretty hard. Some of the things he talked about are very important, including exercise - which may or may not sound pretty much impossible in your situation. Start out small. For the most severely depressed that is sitting up in bed. For others its going on a five mile run or getting back to the gym. Choose something that you will either enjoy (used to enjoy if applicable) or that you wouldn't mind to much and start out slowly. 2-3 times a week until and gradually build up. Whether you feel like it or not being around people is going to slowly help you improve.

A final very important thing to do is doing 'stuff' that gives you a sense of accomplishment or achievement. Obviously this will vary widely but you mentioned you used to read a lot of academic texts etc on anything from quantum physics to history. This might be the place to start, maybe after that you could progress to taking a meaningful course at the open university once you have recovered enough and your cognitive skills start to improve. Don't set your eyes on something difficult at first, remember you are ill and it takes time to get back in to the groove of things. If you don't get out of the house for your run or walk or even to sit outside accept it and move on, if you find yourself thinking about it, make a conscious decision to do something else.

Aspects of DBT may be very helpful in dealing with painful, distracting or disturbing emotions. It was originally designed for treating severe impulsive and emotionally unstbale personality disorders, seen in about 1 in 200 hundred people...I am certainly not saying you have this problem but it can be very helpful for you to use its aspects. I'm going to post a link and working through it might be all you need or it might just make a small difference. Its written for people of all intellectual ability's and might seem a bit 'soft' to some but its very effective. http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/index.html

[snazzhands]

One of my best friends is a psychiatrist who studied at Oxford and is still associated with them (in some way, not exactly sure how the doctor thing works). One of his primary interests is in the grey area between what is chemical, what is psychological, and what is exacerbated by social and environmental conditions. From my conversations with him I have gathered that changing your behaviour and values, if you are capable of it, can be one of the most important contributions to returning to good mental health, and that a significant problem comes when trying to meet the expectations of society and the media, including counter-cultures. This is part of the reason why there are so many people who 'find religion' report becoming a lot happier - religions teach values which are more conducive to a happy life, as well as giving a sense of community that may be absent, in spite of any long-obsolete scientific theories they may hold.

I was not putting my suggestions forward as a proven medical treatment... (obviously there's no Dickens vs Clancy study) just healthy things for your overall attitude and perception of what 'reality' constitutes. As a society we have a lot of things shoved down our throats by parents, media and schools that are contradictory and unhelpful. Recovering from depression and addiction in particular can be aided hugely by sorting out your values, sharing your problems and being physically healthy.

Dickens and Tolstoy have an extremely astute understanding of human nature and the challenges that face people. They are rooted in the relationship between people and the world and society they live in. The literature I advised against is either not rooted in reality or is centered on achievements that most people will likely not match.

The OP sounds like he is not so depressed that it is making him physically ill. All he has said is that he feels foggy, demotivated and reclusive. Which is pretty much where I was at. Sometimes I could control my thought patterns and sometimes I couldn't. But I kept trying and things did improve and I did become less depressed. Of course you will not find a scientific study as it would be impossible to conduct in a way that produces reliable results.

Sex when you are mentally healthy is of course great, whether it is with someone new or a long term partner. Sex as escapism or validation can lead you down a very negative path. Viewing sex as the solution to a problem would be very unhelpful indeed.

Clubbing, unless you are there for the music, is one of the least effective forms of socialising I have ever encountered. It's too loud, there's always the possibility of a fight, too many people are just desperately looking for sex or attention, and there's a huge pressure to drink a lot or take drugs. It costs a lot. You don't talk about anything worth talking about because it's 'boring', so have to make small talk and trade funny stories all night. You don't sleep as well afterwards and often the next day you are plagued by a hangover or a feeling of having wasted your money. If you are there for the music, you could be somewhere a lot better. Being reclusive is definitely terrible for depression and was one of the factors that led to mine, but equally spending all your time with other people can be exhausting, frustrating and demoralising if you're in the wrong head space. Hence the even split suggestion.

Socialising is helpful and can take many different forms, I'm just saying that clubbing is probably the worst way to go about it.

And the attitudes of people in competitive sports teams are typically not helpful. If you want to exercise and be with other people, running, swimming, climbing, canoeing, all that sort of stuff typically attract people that are more tolerant in their outlook. The act of playing rugby, for instance, is great, but the culture is awful! Contrast that with something like caving...

As for medication, the OP was talking about 'racetams and NZT in his posts. I was saying that self-medicating and wishful thinking won't help you.



Tom, you are not right about everything and neither am I. I'm not putting my suggestions forward as a medical thesis, I am reporting my own experiences in the hope that the OP will find something helpful and will not feel alone in his problems. Please don't refer to other people's ideas as bullshit and don't create bogus interpretations of those ideas. Get your last word in if you want.

To the OP I stand by my suggestions and also by Tom's idea of seeing a doctor quickly. If the doc prescribes you some medication and it helps you, great, but you need to get your values straight in addition if you want to lead a satisfied life from then on.

[The Immortalist]

I do have depression, and yes I work in a crapy mind numbing dead end job, those are a big factor. In my 20s I used to have a lot of passion and drive, but never got anywhere, so I am where I am today. I use to have a lot of interests, but none of that gets me fired up anymore.
I have had some threapy through the NHS, but there is only so many sessions I can get for free.
Even if I was given a perfect job tomorrow, I don't think I could do it anymore. damn I'm screwed.

England made me depressed, I moved out of London to Hong Kong and haven't regretted it ever since.

Europe is just a deadzone for now.

edit: alot of people would consider you lucky, I knew a lot of people in UK who couldn't even find a mind numbing dead end job, now they are supposed to be grateful if they make 12k a year in a call center. There are just too many problems with England, unless you are part of the blue blood (you know the type) or a high paid professional, i'd say for people who want to make something of themselves - get out lol.

I've only been drinking diet coke regulary for the last few weeks.

I used to be a creative guy with tons of ideas, I used be interested in lots of things and read many different books everything from quantum physics, history, anything to understand the world better. Heck, even now women don't interest me anymore. I use to be ok with sociallising but now I don't really like sociallising or being around people in general. It feels like I'm in my world and everyone is in a different world.

It looks like you need to get out of your job and start doing something you like. This is cliche advice but maybe you need a vacation? Get out and go somewhere you've always wanted to go to but never did.

[Major Legend]

I think both tom and snazz's post has merit. I do agree that the unscientifically educated like me can sometimes take this forum off-track, discussions here should really be focused on the science.

That said a lot of people go into mild depression for "fairly similar" reasons - usually stress created by the environment, and as the only environment is only within our brain - you know our brain senses and mirrors the environment in our head, which then sort of becomes a construct of what is external.

And whatever the science says snazz is right, there is a huge amount of the external construct in our minds that is basically opinion and values. Most of it nowadays greedy and capitalistic, our modern day heroes are all mighty 1% gods or the super successful that piss over everyone else. This view point that we all need to "work hard and achieve millions" before we are allowed to be happy is a common theme amongst most cultures old and new - though the conflict is of course - its not that easy.

I think what snazz realised about reality, was exactly the same as me. The world is filled with fantasies and success stories that few are bestowed upon, there are far more normal people who have to deal with reality than people living the dream. Learning to see reality for what it is can be life changing for somebody doused in capitalistic fantasies - and that does include the realms of movies, science fiction, often these are characters in improbably and extraordinary situations, achieving extraordinary goals. This does not make somebody who is depressed and lonely feel better.

So my point above is changing the way you see things is hard and crucial to recovering too, but I also agree with Tom' withdraw too much from the "fun" things in life is not a way forward either, in fact being part of something even if its failure but as a group of people is often better for mental health than being the "success" but alone and lonely.

A huge part of it for me - is accepting that you will have to play the "normal" game at some point, that means being special isn't really all that great, and doing what everyone else does isn't such a bad thing (including going to bars and getting drunk...) and can feel really good if you allow yourself to enjoy it and forget the fantasies. It will take time, but this "normal" anchor will be your best bet because its achievable.

Again I repeat that I strongly believe England at the moment is not an environment for happiness, go somewhere with more sunshine, more hope, less bureaucracy. If you have a British passport you should be able to migrate to ALOT of places.

On the medical side there are ALOT of choices too, and this is controversially wrong - but I wouldn't hesitate to use any medicine safe within reason (best with a doctor), ditch the stuff that doesn't work and keep the stuff that does. When you are mildly depressed, - anything any positive emotion or anchor is better than that greyness you are currently experiencing.

In other words you need sunshine

[Tom_]

Lets set a few things straight.

First of all the idea that the OP is suffering from a 'mild' depression is frankly insulting to him. He has already admitted to having had thoughts of suicide, hopelessness, anhedonia, loss of interest in sex and dysphoria, it meets a chronic specifier as well as resistance to low level intervention. He is still working and so a diagnosis of severe depression is excluded. He is suffering from moderate depression and taking into account the length of the disorder it could well be a double depression.

Secondly, "Recovering from depression and addiction in particular can be aided hugely by sorting out your values, sharing your problems and being physically healthy", is quite simply never been shown to be true (apparently I shouldn't refer to it as bullshit). I agree with the physically healthy part. Values are pretty much fixed past 25, change then becomes very gradual which is why personality disorders tend not to resolve until late forties to sixties if treatment starts after early 20s and the prognosis of all major mental disorders without significant psychosis being better when treated earlier. Sharing problems can be effective mostly related to adjustment reactions and psychiatric crises. Sharing and talking about problems become less effective the more severe and ingrained the illness becomes, which you can see as the disparity between counseling and CBT in more severe illnesses. Which is why I am suggesting an active collaborative therapy like CBT.

Religion is NOT healthy. I don't call picketing funerals, hiding or engaging child sex abuse, blowing shit up, starting wars, racism, being against LGBT people, genital mutilation, witch hunts, stopping development of ethical medical science, oppressing normal sexual behavior, not stopping the spread of HIV, creating patriarchal society and god knows what ever else healthy, in any way. That was just Christianity and I won't hear the argument of minority the majority are someway involved in what I have written, let alone what I could have.

Using sex is bad. Having sex is good.

Stereotyping all rugby players as...I'm not sure what you have in your mind, is unlikely to be true. Playing for a local team or a national team leads to socialization, exercise and companionship. I can even talk from experience having played in multiple teams myself at various levels with various demographics - not that I hold much by experience.

Racetams are useful, they tend not to be in the case of depression but they have their uses. The OP merely wished there was NZT not stating there was or asking if there was. Not helpful and also unlikely to be a hindrance.

My main point is that you SHOULD be having this argument in the context of evidence and research. This is what has been shown again & again & again to work. Not something you think might have worked for you.

Most people think I'm being sarcastic when I ask this question - im not. Why shouldn't I be referring to peoples ideas as bullshit exactly?

[vtrader]

Wow, thank you all for you replies and suggestions.
Let me clarify a few things:
First I understand, snazzhands, I understand where you are coming from, my threapist recommended something similair, he told me to stop making long term goals and aspirations for now as there were causing anxiety attacks. Instead just learn to live in the moment, today and focus on what I can do today not tomorrow.
I understand that other stimuli are just a band aid, until I can really find joy just being by myself. I am worknig towards that through meditation and reading insiprational philosopy that deals with the power of now.

The problem is I only have this one life, I don't really want to live it being the grey man, not doing or experiencing much in life. I am not looking to be a monk. I understand that I should not set expectations because of what others want/expect, but unfornatly getting a job, social circles do have different expectations to matchup.
Telling me not to do that or not to aspire is the same as those who demand I have this or that.
I have already let go off some ideas that society takes for granted, such as marriage, having a family, I decided not to have any of that, and I accepted that yes I could be alone for the rest of my life.
I have also accepted that the chances of getting a great job is higly unlikely, and having abundance of money to experience different things in life is not going to happen.

I've come to a point that I have no reason to actively interact with people let alone the opposite sex. I've never got on with people in general. I do not care for social events, I have nothing to prove.

There has always been a fire within me wanting to do something great to leave behind, luckly my shitty job and prospects has killed that, so don't have to worry about missing out on anything anymore.

I don't have any feeling or need to go on holiday.

I best I can do now is just be grateful for the little things, and my failures. Thank you.

[Tom_]

or you could throw expectations out the window, get better and see where life takes you.