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My Nootropic Stack (Noopept, Centrophenoxine, Sunifiram)

noopept centrophenoxine sunifiram nootropic blog

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#1 jly1986

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:25 PM


My current nootropic stack:

1. Noopept (~5-10 mg/day)
2. Centrophenoixine (~100-250 mg/day)
3. Sunifiram (~5-10 mg/day, dosage varying during experimentation)

I've been taking Noopept + Centro for a few months now. I'm now accustomed to it as my baseline supplementation. Since, I just started adding Sunifiram to the mix, the following is what I've experienced so far with my Noopept + Centro base:

Positive Effects:
============

- Enhanced sensory sensitivity:

Brighter colors, keener smell, sounds are significantly louder, more intense orgasms. Colors are amazingly bright and exhibit deep contrast. The difference is like non-HD and HD TV. Sounds which used to be in the "normal" range now literally hurt my ears, but bearable. I'm more sensitive to odors which probably used to always exist, but now which bother me. This could be a slight negative effect, except that now that I'm more aware of these things, I find ways to resolve them.

- More motivation to do things:

Finally started and completed projects which I had been procrastinating for literally months before. I also find myself not procrastinating on new projects as I would have done before, but would start on them immediately and promptly complete them.

- Greater sense of humor:

I find myself genuinely entertained and laughing at jokes I hear on TV, even during repeat episodes of sit-coms I've seen before and know the plot / jokes already. I feel more engaged in the narrative and enjoy the story more.

- Deeper sleep, more vivid dreams:

During the work week, I can now get by with 5-6 hours of sleep and feel alert for most of the day. Dreams are much more vivid and substantial in content.

- Memory:

Subjective improvement in memory, especially regarding numbers. I'm able to find relationships in some number sequences which make them more memorable. I used to be horrible at remembering numbers, but now am seeing ways to help me remember them (while not using mnemonic tricks, which never really helped me anyway), so this is a welcome improvement.

- Problem solving ability:

Subjective improvement in solving puzzles and troubleshooting root cause issues at work.

- Physical workouts:

I'm able to finish my workout sets much easier and faster. I'm also more motivated to working out, looking forward to them, rather than dreading them as before.

Negative Effects:
============

- Eyelid muscle twitching:

For the first few weeks, my eyelids would twitch rapidly throughout the day. This stopped after taking a month-long break from supplementation, and it has not returned after resuming supplementation.

- Tinnitus:

Initially, my tinnitus became noticeably worse, since my sensitivity to sound increased noticeably. However, after awhile, it started to fade into the background again, perhaps due to acclimation.

- Very slight headache, increased pressure in back of head near the neck:

Nothing serious, and not bothersome, minimal discomfort, and I wouldn't even call it "pain," more like greater pressure in the lower skull, especially during physical workouts. I felt this only during the frist weeks of starting supplementation, and this issue no longer exists. If anything, I haven't had a "real" headache since I've started supplementation, even when I caught a cold, which usually causes me to have bad headaches.

- Depression, if taking too much centrophenoixine:

Seems like excess choline sources cause me to feel depressed, lathargic, fatigued. I've learned to carefully adjust the amount of centro to stay under the depression-onset amount.

- More easily irritable, impatient:

I find myself more irritable at both myself when making mistakes, or at others when they are making mistakes. To counter, I'm taking more deep breaths and taking it as a lesson in becoming more patient and tolerant with myself and others. It's getting easier to deal with others now, and I'm actually feeling more laid back.

Other Effects (neither positive nor negative):
==========

- Increased urination frequency, water-loss:

I think excess Centro causes this. It seems to act as a mild diuretic.

Non Effects:
===========

- Despite the benefits noted above, I don't really feel significantly smarter than before, and I haven't had any breakthrough or revolutionary thoughts or ideas.

- I don't feel any more sociable than before. If anything, I feel less sociable now, because I feel like I would rather spend time doing projects than socializing.

- I don't feel a noticeable difference in my verbal ability, and I still stammer / stutter on certain words which have always given me difficulty. I also don't find it easier to communicate verbally with others, for example at work, and I still struggle with finding the right words to express what I'm trying to say.

#2 jly1986

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:36 PM

I received the Suni package from rikelme yesterday. Immediately took 1 mg as an initial test dose. Didn't feel anything beyond the usual effects I get from taking a comparable amount of Noopept. This morning, I took 5 mg Suni along with my usual 5 mg Noopept. Now it has been about 4 hours later, and I don't feel anything significantly different (yet). Will continue experimenting.

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#3 MrSan

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:48 PM

Do you experience anything that you can directly attribute to taking noopept? From what I can garner, you aren't overly impressed with these compounds you are taking.

#4 jly1986

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:12 PM

Do you experience anything that you can directly attribute to taking noopept? From what I can garner, you aren't overly impressed with these compounds you are taking.


MrSan,

I would say for me Noopept definitely enhances sensory experience as well as increases motivation to start and complete projects and tasks. Slight memory and problem solving benefits, too, but nothing life-changing or spectacular. At least not yet. True, I'm not "overly impressed," but I definitely appreciate the positive effects and experiences I've benefitted from so far.

#5 MrSan

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:28 PM

Do you experience anything that you can directly attribute to taking noopept? From what I can garner, you aren't overly impressed with these compounds you are taking.


MrSan,

I would say for me Noopept definitely enhances sensory experience as well as increases motivation to start and complete projects and tasks. Slight memory and problem solving benefits, too, but nothing life-changing or spectacular. At least not yet. True, I'm not "overly impressed," but I definitely appreciate the positive effects and experiences I've benefitted from so far.

I meant just to write "Do you experience anything that you can directly attribute to taking noopept?".

Your thread clearly shows that you experience several beneficial effects. I just meant to ask if you thought taking noopept had some positive effects on its' own. I realize it's impossible to know for sure, as your results are compounded by sunifram and centro.

I just ask out of curiosity because noopept has peaked my interest.

Edited by MrSan, 14 July 2013 - 05:29 PM.


#6 jly1986

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:34 PM

Notes regarding the physical properties of the substances:

1. Noopept:

Pure white
Powdery, some small clumps
Very bitter taste
Dissolves partially in water and completely in oil

2. Centrophenoxine:

Pure white
Chalky, very clumpy, but clumps break up easily
Bitter taste but sweet after-taste, which is surprisingly pleasant
Dissolves completely in water

3. Sunifiram:

Pure white
Powdery, no clumps,
No real taste, very mildly bitter, but compared to Noopept, it is basically tasteless
Dissolves completely in water

#7 jly1986

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:51 PM

I meant just to write "Do you experience anything that you can directly attribute to taking noopept?".

Your thread clearly shows that you experience several beneficial effects. I just meant to ask if you thought taking noopept had some positive effects on its' own. I realize it's impossible to know for sure, as your results are compounded by sunifram and centro.

I just ask out of curiosity because noopept has peaked my interest.


Up to now, Sunifiram's effect is not yet really evident, since I just started taking it yesterday (only 1mg) and today (5mg + 5 mg so far). All of the effects I mentioned in my first post above is the summary of my past few months of taking Noopept + Centro. I think most of the effect is due to Noopept, because I've had to stop taking Centro for awhile due to the depression it caused me. Nowadays, I "force" myself to take Centro for its longer term, supposedly anti-lipofuscin benefits, especially after learning that Imre Zs-Nagy, the professor who designed Centro, has taken 500 mg/day for the past several decades, and he reports himself to be in great condition today.

One thing I noticed when I had been taking Piracetam some time ago, it seems to be a better at lifting my mood and enhancing energy than Noopept does. With Piracetam, the effects seem more subjectively noticeable and "loud." With Noopept, it is much more subtle and "quiet." I'm considering adding Piracetam back to my stack, and may be doing that shortly, after I've given myself time enough to notice any effects of Sunifiram.

#8 Racetams

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:35 PM

Has anyone written a mega dose report for Sunifiram like with Noopept, it would be interesting to see the effects. Maybe there is the same instance of mania, which could help those with better pharmacological knowledge elucidate it's mechanism.

#9 jly1986

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:42 PM

Has anyone written a mega dose report for Sunifiram like with Noopept, it would be interesting to see the effects. Maybe there is the same instance of mania, which could help those with better pharmacological knowledge elucidate it's mechanism.


I believe Isochroma has been taking over 100 mg Suni per day for the past many months. He writes mostly in the other thread entitled "Sunifiram?".

Also, a few others have taken mega-doses, but then they started suffering from negative effects, such as seriously bad headaches, from which they could not find relief.

So far, I've kept my doses small, just 5-10 mg per day, and I haven't noticed any side effects. Then again, I haven't really noticed any significant extra benefits either.

#10 jly1986

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 05:57 PM

Update:

It is going on a couple of weeks adding Suni to my stack, mostly at 5 mg/day in the morning, sometimes an extra 5 mg in the afternoon. Overall, I haven't really noticed a significant change in experience above my baseline Noopept + Centro stack. Subjectively, adding Suni seems to yield the same basic experience as increasing the Noopept dosage.

That said, I notice I've been sleeping better, remembering more of my dreams, having more dramatic dreams. I have also experienced more OBEs since I've started taking this stack, though they have been relatively light and unsubstantial compared to my earlier experiences.

I also feel far less social. I'm already rather introverted by nature, and it seems like this stack is only deepening my naturally un-social tendencies. (Not "anti"-social, just "un"-social ... I prefer to be alone, off in my own world.)

Still no siginificantly noticeable boosts to memory or intelligence, at least not that I can subjectively feel. The benefits seem mostly in terms of greater motivation to start and complete projects.

More later ...

#11 LabRat

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 07:30 PM

The 'enhanced everything' feeling seems roughly in line with noopept. It seems hard to pin down on its own, not being as stimulating as the more lively racetams, and not always having the same effect in different days. But it does seem to massively potentiate other things you may be taking, even in small amounts. I'm looking forward to starting it again after a break - perhaps a little too much. BTW, a lot of people were put off noopept due to it supposedly lowering sex drive. This did seem to happen initially but after a few weeks this very much reversed. Not sure the general suspicion about this is correct.

#12 Ultravioletbllc

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 03:23 PM

Please Please Tellmeyou Tried Pramiracetam Before You Tried Sunifram

#13 jly1986

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 04:40 PM

Update:

Going on 3rd week of adding Sunifiram to my Noopept + Centro base.

Seems like some tolerance has set in. I no longer experience the enhanced sensory effects as before, not that they were all that important or even desired at all. As far as sensory experience, I feel as though I'm back to baseline (before supplementing with any of these noots.)

I also no longer feel any improvement in memory or mental capacity. In fact, I find myself at times less focused, more forgetful and more foggy. Also, I found myself tripping over words more than usual. I already have a minor speech impediment, and it has never improved during supplementation.

But this may be due to my relative lack of sleep. I awake after 2-3 hours (perhaps due to subconscious anxiety about work), lie in bed wide awake for another 1-2 hours, and then have to get up for work after another 1-2 hours. So, in all each night, I only get on average 4-5 hours of sleep. On the weekends, I crash, and can sleep for 10-12 hours each night (though not continuous, interupted a few times by wakefulness), and with many short naps during the weekends. I'm better able to concentrate on the weekends, but when I feel half normal again, the next work week starts.

But there are noteworthy prolonged effects which seem sustained:

- Definite increase in OBE frequency: I'm experiencing at least a couple OBEs per week now, whereas before, I'd have one sporadically once every few months, and a long stretch of none in over a six month stretch. But the depth and duration of the OBEs I'm experiencing now are less than before.

- Motivation to do things is still high. I don't procrastinate nearly as much as before, and I want to complete things just to get them out of the way, so that I don't have to worry about them anymore.

- Disinterest in things which don't seem to have long-term value for me.

Also, my desire for social contact is nearly zero. I had a couple of opportunities to socialize with co-workers, but turned them all down, prefering quiet solitude. I spent my birthday alone. If it weren't for having to go to work, I'd be a complete recluse. But I don't really feel lonely when I'm alone, and I would enjoy some companionship, but only if it had some meaningful purpose which mattered, not just to socialize for the sake of socializing.

#14 jly1986

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 04:50 PM

Please Please Tellmeyou Tried Pramiracetam Before You Tried Sunifram


No, I never tried pramiracetam before.

In terms of the more recent noots, I've tried piracetam, aniracetam, oxiracetam, Noopept, centrophenoxine, and sunifiram.

#15 jly1986

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:46 AM

I lost hearing in my right ear starting two days ago. Equilibrium was also significantly affected. I don't know if it was the sunifiram, but I stopped taking it for now. I'm only taking Noopept now.

One thing I noticed after taking only Noopept is that the sensory enhancements have returned in a huge way. I also felt particularly sharp and energetic at work today.

Apparently, taking both Noopept and suniciram together had been suppressing the nootropic effects, as if sunifiram was canceling out Noopept.

The hearing in my right ear is also gradually returning. I don't know for sure if suniciram was the cause of the hearing loss, but I think it was definitely diminishing Noopept's effect.

I'll take a long break from sunifiram, especially since taking it didn't seem to add anything, but actually subtracted.

#16 jly1986

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 03:11 AM

Hearing is mostly back to normal.

Only taking Noopept now, having dropped both sunifiram and centrophenoxine. Centro had been simply too depressive.

#17 jly1986

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:58 AM

For the past week, I've been taking only Noopept, around 5mg once in the morning with water after a small breakfast of two slices of whole grain toast.

My hearing in my right ear has been restored to normal, but strangely, the problem with my hearing has shifted toward my left ear, not entirely all the way left, but sort of in between. The hearing loss is the kind of experience I have when I get water in my ears after swimming, or when descending in altitude in an airplane, like my ears get plugged up. In the present case, it happens only on one side, and artificially yawning doesn't help unplug the muffled effect. I keep trying to yawn to open up the ear, expecting it to "pop" open and full hearing restored. It's more like a dull pressure in the back of my head, midway between. It's not debilitating, and actually somewhat beneficial, as the volume of sounds seemed jacked up a significant degree after starting taking noots, and my present semi-deafness helps attenuate the intensity. Perhaps it is part of the brain's mechanism of restoring equilibrium?

Otherwise, nothing significantly remarkable. Memory and cognition seem normal, no significant enhancement, perhaps even some detriment. Alertness and clarity of mind still seem high. Sleep has been averaging about 5 hours per night, split up into roughly 3 + 2 hour segments, with wide wakefulness in between. (I'm writing this during one of these "anti-nap" sessions.) Some drowsiness through the day, especially in the AM and around noon. Can't keep my eyes open much past 9PM.

Motivation to do things also still seems high, though I feel a restlessness to do things grand and significant, not to waste my time on little stuff that seem meaningless. I guess some would call it "ambition." I just wish along with the ambition came enhanced cognition and memory to make the "big" things happen.

I'm not missing the centrophenoxine and sunifiram, though I'm starting to wonder what else to try to help with the nootropic benefits I've sought since starting this journey.

#18 mrd1

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:42 PM

I take 30mg of noopept 4x a day with sunifiram 7-11mg 4x it is interesting the reports of lowered sex drive because my sex drive is sooo high it is almost unbearable.

#19 jly1986

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:42 AM

I take 30mg of noopept 4x a day with sunifiram 7-11mg 4x it is interesting the reports of lowered sex drive because my sex drive is sooo high it is almost unbearable.


Wow - you take in 1 day what I take in 1 month!


#20 jly1986

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:51 AM

Update: my hearing is completely back to normal. It took about 3 weeks to get back, and the normalization process was very gradual. Noopept's potency in enhancing my sensory experience is still as strong and immediate as my first time months ago.

#21 mrd1

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:15 PM

I take 30mg of noopept 4x a day with sunifiram 7-11mg 4x it is interesting the reports of lowered sex drive because my sex drive is sooo high it is almost unbearable.


Wow - you take in 1 day what I take in 1 month!


"In studies looking at dose-response and oral ingestion, in rats where amnesia was induced via electroshock therapy it was noted that oral ingestion of 0.5mg/kg was associated with memory retention as was 10mg/kg, but an oral intake of 1.2mg/kg and 30mg/kg were both without effect; the pattern appeared to be bimodal, and the two effective rat oral doses correlated to an estimated human dose of 0.08mg/kg and 1.6mg/kg respectively (with 1.2mg/kg correlating to 0.192mg/kg).[11]

Injections (in rats) appear to be used acutely one hour prior to learning tasks with efficacy, although it does not appear that this is an outright prerequisite for cognitive enhancement. In regards to dosing, there appears to be a biphasic pattern of efficacy" (Examine.com)

This explains how one could experiance benefits at both what I take 120mg and much a much lower 5-10mg. because that is roughly what they convert to if you use the HEB equation to equate it for a 165 person.

Picture a 2 hump camel! your sitting on the first hump and I am on the second but we both are elevated :)

#22 Synaesthesiac

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:20 PM

"I take 30mg of noopept 4x a day with sunifiram 7-11mg 4x it is interesting the reports of lowered sex drive because my sex drive is sooo high it is almost unbearable. "

LOL with the amount of dopamine you crank through your brain and the amph, no wonder. AMPH always made my sex-drive go nuts, and if your noots potentiate it... :-D Sounds like a healthy 18 year old male.

#23 mrd1

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 02:53 AM

I am talking like 4-8 times a day. I find the easiest way to study it to study during it. A little multitasking. come to think about it I do seem to also have this consistent euphoria more of a extreme contentness. Like I can just sit and smile

#24 Gr888Scott

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 04:22 AM

Update:

Going on 3rd week of adding Sunifiram to my Noopept + Centro base.

Seems like some tolerance has set in. I no longer experience the enhanced sensory effects as before, not that they were all that important or even desired at all. As far as sensory experience, I feel as though I'm back to baseline (before supplementing with any of these noots.)

I also no longer feel any improvement in memory or mental capacity. In fact, I find myself at times less focused, more forgetful and more foggy. Also, I found myself tripping over words more than usual. I already have a minor speech impediment, and it has never improved during supplementation.

But this may be due to my relative lack of sleep. I awake after 2-3 hours (perhaps due to subconscious anxiety about work), lie in bed wide awake for another 1-2 hours, and then have to get up for work after another 1-2 hours. So, in all each night, I only get on average 4-5 hours of sleep. On the weekends, I crash, and can sleep for 10-12 hours each night (though not continuous, interupted a few times by wakefulness), and with many short naps during the weekends. I'm better able to concentrate on the weekends, but when I feel half normal again, the next work week starts.

But there are noteworthy prolonged effects which seem sustained:

- Definite increase in OBE frequency: I'm experiencing at least a couple OBEs per week now, whereas before, I'd have one sporadically once every few months, and a long stretch of none in over a six month stretch. But the depth and duration of the OBEs I'm experiencing now are less than before.

- Motivation to do things is still high. I don't procrastinate nearly as much as before, and I want to complete things just to get them out of the way, so that I don't have to worry about them anymore.

- Disinterest in things which don't seem to have long-term value for me.

Also, my desire for social contact is nearly zero. I had a couple of opportunities to socialize with co-workers, but turned them all down, prefering quiet solitude. I spent my birthday alone. If it weren't for having to go to work, I'd be a complete recluse. But I don't really feel lonely when I'm alone, and I would enjoy some companionship, but only if it had some meaningful purpose which mattered, not just to socialize for the sake of socializing.



jly1986,
Thanks so much for sharing. I mean seriously :)

I have been taking Mega-Mind (Source Naturals), Choline and recently added Noopept and Sulbutamine.

So, I am completely "feeling" what you are saying here re: sociability. It's almost like your realize you've got your brain tuned and thus have a new appreciation for things that are truly worth your time. Social pretense and just exchanging words "because that's just what you do in society" not being big on the priority list.

Sort of like how everybody gets suddenly "real" after a major disaster. But without the disaster. Like after the WTC incident, everybody was either running into church and/or calling the people important in their life just to say "I love you".

But hey, maybe I am over-embellishing on your experience.

The OBE frequency is interesting. When I started on the Noopept, for about a week I was dozing off frequently and having intensely vivid dreams as well as all the hyper-sensory audio and visual effects. Then the visions, like on the inside of my eyelids were a movie screen. But if I wanted to "shut of the projector" that was cool,too. And easilly doable. By no means hallucinatory, you understand, just ,über- intuitive "flashes".
I am totally enamored with Noopept. The Sulbutamine is a different story in it's effects, which have been all good, but of a different variety.

Noopept has amplified the intricate beauty in sound and sight. And what I have experienced with it was the ability to selectively tune the intensity of audio/visual input. Collectively or independently just by "looking" or "listening" intently.

Plus, motivation and multitasking just come as I need them. It's truly awesome.

From what I have heard here and elsewhere I shant mess with Sunifiram or Centrophenoxine. There are just soooo many other noots out there.

Some other racetams are a possibility, tho.

Where are y'all getting Noopept and at what price?

#25 jly1986

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 09:44 AM

Thanks Gr888Scott,

I got my Noopept from NewStar for around twenty dollars for ten grams, which at the rate I'm taking it will last me over a year.

Wow - your experience of playing movies inside your eyelids sounds so cool. I have always been a poor visualizer. For example, when I took a mnemonics course which required me to create mental images to act as memory hooks, I would always forget my images, because they were not vivid enough. So, mnemonics doesn't work very well for me.

And yet, my dreams can be very vivid with hyper-real details and rich sensory experiences. I really look forward to sleep time!

#26 jly1986

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 10:04 AM

The other thing about my dreams ... Sometimes in my dreams I hear this amazing music, music that literally makes me weep, deep, soul wrenching melodies. But upon awaking, I quickly forget the details of the music I heard, though the emotional impact lingers for awhile, and for many minutes minutes after waking, I would lay quietly trying desperately to recreate the rapturous melodies which had just washed over me.

Realizing the melodies were created inside my head makes me wonder what other amazing treasures lie within, and how do I get them out? If only I could take a tape-recorder into my dreams

I wonder if the great musical composers also have similar dream experiences, and the difference is, they're able to transcribe what they heard in dreamland back into awake-land.

#27 Gr888Scott

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 01:58 PM

Thanks Gr888Scott,

I got my Noopept from NewStar for around twenty dollars for ten grams, which at the rate I'm taking it will last me over a year.

Wow - your experience of playing movies inside your eyelids sounds so cool. I have always been a poor visualizer. For example, when I took a mnemonics course which required me to create mental images to act as memory hooks, I would always forget my images, because they were not vivid enough. So, mnemonics doesn't work very well for me.

And yet, my dreams can be very vivid with hyper-real details and rich sensory experiences. I really look forward to sleep time!


Have you tried connecting a physical sensation instead of a mental image as a "memory hook" ? So instead of connecting just the mental image, connect an actual "thing" per sé. Like the classic "tying a string around your finger so you don't forget" ? it sounds sort of ridiculous but it works. Or just physically writing something down, for instance, then saying" I am writing this down so I don't forget".

Weird as it sounds it, oddly, works :D

The other thing about my dreams ... Sometimes in my dreams I hear this amazing music, music that literally makes me weep, deep, soul wrenching melodies. But upon awaking, I quickly forget the details of the music I heard, though the emotional impact lingers for awhile, and for many minutes minutes after waking, I would lay quietly trying desperately to recreate the rapturous melodies which had just washed over me.

Realizing the melodies were created inside my head makes me wonder what other amazing treasures lie within, and how do I get them out? If only I could take a tape-recorder into my dreams

I wonder if the great musical composers also have similar dream experiences, and the difference is, they're able to transcribe what they heard in dreamland back into awake-land.


Sounds cool.

Have your dreams been this way before noots or is this just post-nootropic?

Edited by Gr888Scott, 17 August 2013 - 02:05 PM.


#28 Synaesthesiac

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 05:27 PM

I hate to say it, but just like faces, things you "hear" in dreams are composed of bits of audio that you have already heard. The brain cannot invent new faces, so people you see in your dreams but you do not recognize are actually real people you may have passed on a crowded side-walk, etc. That doesn't mean what you heard wasn't beautiful or meaningful, quite the contrary. Your brain manages to bring together all these forgotten stimuli and in essence, is one of the coolest musical sequencers around!

#29 jly1986

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 01:49 PM

I hate to say it, but just like faces, things you "hear" in dreams are composed of bits of audio that you have already heard. The brain cannot invent new faces, so people you see in your dreams but you do not recognize are actually real people you may have passed on a crowded side-walk, etc. That doesn't mean what you heard wasn't beautiful or meaningful, quite the contrary. Your brain manages to bring together all these forgotten stimuli and in essence, is one of the coolest musical sequencers around!


Hmm ... I suppose you may technically be right. The experience itself, though, really feels like I'm listening to original compositions external to myself. I've enjoyed entire concerts in my dreams which really felt as though I was in the audience of an orchestra of angels.

When I think about what is musical composition, I realize it is just the process of arranging notes and chords and instruments together in different ways, but the basic palette from which the musician uses is quite standard and set. For example, Gershwin used the exact same 88 keys as Bach, and yet, the two produced totally unique music. So, perhaps the great composers have a conscious command over an ability which I (or anyone else) can only do unconsciously while asleep.

From your strictly naturalistic perspective, whether by processes occurring while the composer is awake or asleep, all the music that has or ever will be created arose from the human brain. When I am awake and hear a new piece of music, the work is the result of some other brain's arrangement of notes, chords, and instruments. When I hear a "new" piece of music when I'm asleep, the work is the result of my own brain's arrangement of notes, chords, and instruments. I only wish I could consciously tap into that subconscious ability which I know exists, because I have witnessed its product.

To answer Gr888Scott's question, I've had these musical dreams ever since I was little. In fact, one of the things I hoped taking noots would do is help me materialize those compositions out of my subconsciousness into my consciousness. That wish is still a dream :-)

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#30 Synaesthesiac

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:18 PM

You are absolutely right, but I in NO WAY meant to put you down or seem as if I was trying to belittle what you said; I work as an audio engineer, currently for a film composer, so I have dedicated my life to sound, its arrangement, and all the minutiae that the job entails. The human mind is ASTOUNDINGLY adept at pattern recognition, in fact, we can't turn it off. The fact that all new music is composed of smaller constituent chunks of things already heard is in no means unoriginal; rather it is integral and this concept is applicable to pretty much all knowledge in general. We may only invent from what is already known, but the manner in which we combine these pieces can take on a completely different life of it's own. All new knowledge is achieved through the process of triangulation, or piecing together an "unknown" area of knowledge from closely related "known" pieces, which give us the ability to extrapolate and define the new piece of information. Mathematicians do this every day. when you said "The experience itself, though, really feels like I'm listening to original compositions external to myself," you hit it right on the money, because although the elements you drew upon were already no stranger to existence, your brain was able to then take them, recombine them, and come up with something new altogether. In essence, I guess "originality" or how "original" a thing is is based on how many degrees it is separated from what is known. The law has to define a degree of similarity as well in order to copyright musical compositions.

"So, perhaps the great composers have a conscious command over an ability which I (or anyone else) can only do unconsciously while asleep."
- Most definitely! Just like any skill, if you nurture it, feed that need, light a fire beneath your passion for it, and dedicate the time, your brain will adapt to do just what you want it to do with astounding efficacy and result.

"I've had these musical dreams ever since I was little. In fact, one of the things I hoped taking noots would do is help me materialize those compositions out of my subconsciousness into my consciousness. That wish is still a dream :-) "

- As have I, and I encourage you to FOLLOW that dream! This last year I had the privilege of working at the prestigious Conway Recording Studios in Hollywood, CA (one of the oldest, pretty much EVERY great musician/band has cut a record there at some point). Growing up I was totally enamored with the musical stylings of Daft Punk, and last year, a small dream of mine came true. For 3.5 months last summer I was blessed to work around and witness the mixing of their newest album "Random Access Memories" and it totally BLEW ME AWAY. They are truly two artists dedicated to their craft and the passion they have for their music and their process is hard to rival. And the resulting album? AMAZING, and a PERFECT example of what we are talking about. They ended up with a beautiful amalgamation of sound influenced by the sounds of the 50's, 60's, 70's and of COURSE their infamous penchant for the futuristic sounds of the synthesizer. It was the first album I have heard in awhile that took my conception of what music is and is supposed to be and turned it on its head. So borne out of the well-trodden sounds of years past, came a brilliant and beautiful rehashing that became more original and powerful that any of its constituent sounds on their own. Follow those dreams and do what speaks to YOU, for at the end of the day, you can go to sleep and know that you have contributed to something that you know in your heart inspires you.





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