21 replies to this topic

[NanoDoom]

Hello,

I've been trying to dissolve some c60 in squalane (olive; not shark) for 33 days now.

I took 0.8mg of c60 per litre of squalane, crushed the c60 in a glass mortar and pestle as well as I could.
Mixed it with the squalane, poured it into a glass jar, which I wrapped with two layers of aluminium foil [to keep out the light], then sealed it with duct tape.

I just sat the jar on my table. Every time I walked past it, I gave it a really good shake. I estimate that I probably shook 30-40 times daily - for 33 days.

The solution got a very beautiful purple colour on day two already. There were some chunks of c60 at the bottom that had not dissolved yet. I thought nothing of it, as I assumed these chunks would dissolve over the coming days or weeks.

Well, today its 33 days later, and the solution looks exactly identical to what it looked like on day 2. Same purple colour, and the 'chunks' of c60 powder have not dissolved at all.

What do you think? Would letting the solution sit for another month take care of the final undissolved parts eventually? Or was the problem lack of proper stirring?
Or maybe squalane simple cannot hold nearly as much c60 as olive oil can?

What would you suggest I do at this point?

I guess I could just filter the solution through a coffee filter as it is today and use it like that. It just nags me to know the solution might not be properly saturated.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Oh, btw I'm using the purest 99,95% vacuum oven dried stuff from SES Research.

[niner]

If it's mostly dissolved, my guess would be that it's reacting with whatever squalene (an unsaturated compound that c60 could react with) might be lurking in the squalane. I don't think that c60 would react with pure squalane, at least not in the dark. I also don't think that very much c60 would dissolve in squalane. Much squalane is made via hydrogenation of squalene, so there could easily be some left.

Do you have any sense of what fraction of the original c60 is left? You could filter it. Or, if you wait long enough, you might get some more in.

[JohnD60]

Any thoughts?

Why? Were you hoping to use it as a topical, or were you planning on consuming it?

[NanoDoom]

Do you have any sense of what fraction of the original c60 is left?

My guestimate would be about 80% is left - 20% dissolved [which happened very quickly].

Any thoughts?

Why? Were you hoping to use it as a topical, or were you planning on consuming it?

To use as topical, yes.

I already take the c60-OO orally.

[YOLF]

Could the 80% be removed? Did you use a mortar and pestle?

[NanoDoom]

Could the 80% be removed?

I'm not sure what you mean?

Did you use a mortar and pestle?

Yes. Glass mortar, glass pestle.
Very little remained on the pestle. I'm confident 97%+ of what I did grind up made it into the jar with the squalane.

[Turnbuckle]

C60 in squalane sounds interesting. But you really need to grind it first and use a magnetic stirrer.

[NanoDoom]

C60 in squalane sounds interesting. But you really need to grind it first and use a magnetic stirrer.

I did grind it fairly thoroughly.
Did not use magnetic stirrer. I wonder if a stirrer would have made any difference to what I ended up with.

[mpe]

Magnetic stirrers are well worth the money,they dramatically reduce the time taken for C60oo preparation from over a month to just a week or so. Plus they have the benefit of set and forget, so you can get on with everything else in your life.

[Turnbuckle]

I thought olive squalane oil was interesting enough as a fullerene solvent to try it myself, so I prepared a .6 mg/ml mix (assuming that the "0.8mg of c60 per litre" referred to in the OP was a typo). After several days of magnetic mixing, the mix never changed from a hazy, raw sienna color, so I diluted it by half and continued mixing for more than a week. Still no change. And no purple color at all. I tried a 1 mg oral dose without bothering to filter it, and found several hours later that I was moving around, getting things done. One dose is not enough to draw any conclusion, of course, but I will try it again.

[NanoDoom]

I thought olive squalane oil was interesting enough as a fullerene solvent to try it myself, so I prepared a .6 mg/ml mix (assuming that the "0.8mg of c60 per litre" referred to in the OP was a typo). After several days of magnetic mixing, the mix never changed from a hazy, raw sienna color, so I diluted it by half and continued mixing for more than a week. Still no change. And no purple color at all. I tried a 1 mg oral dose without bothering to filter it, and found several hours later that I was moving around, getting things done. One dose is not enough to draw any conclusion, of course, but I will try it again.

Yeah, what I meant was 0.8 gram per liter. Not milligram.

Mine did change to a hazy, purple the very day after. And has stayed like this for more than a month now.
Still lots of undissolved c60 floating around.

Maybe squalane just cannot hold all that much c60? (as compared to olive oil)

Strange that you haven't seen a change in colour.
I must add that mine is not a strong purple. But you can definitely see it.

Are you using the shark liver or the olive kind squalane?

I never considered taking this solution orally.
Maybe you want to try it topically?

I've filtered (by use of coffee filter) about 50ml of what I have, and am applying it to my (thinning) scalp every evening now. I roll the scalp with a 0.3mm dermaroller first (for better penetration).

[Turnbuckle]

I used the olive squalane. All of the C60 went into suspension and hasn't settled out after letting it rest for several days--a hazy sienna but in small amounts it appears perfectly clear. This abstract says that C60 in squalane is near saturation at 278 ppm, and mine was higher than that, but only slightly.

I don't see problem with oral dosing of squalane per se, as it's found in olive oil.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 19 August 2013 - 10:27 PM.

[NanoDoom]

I used the olive squalane. All of the C60 went into suspension and hasn't settled out after letting it rest for several days--a hazy sienna but in small amounts it appears perfectly clear. This abstract says that C60 in squalane is near saturation at 278 ppm, and mine was higher than that, but only slightly.

I don't see problem with oral dosing of squalane per se, as it's found in olive oil.

Mine is clear in small doses, too.

Do we know what the saturation ppm for c60 in olive oil is?

[Turnbuckle]

Do we know what the saturation ppm for c60 in olive oil is?

800-1000 ppm, I believe.

[NanoDoom]

Is there any reason to believe that the c60 adducts formed in squalane are any different in size than the ones formed in olive oil?

I'm just thinking about topical application.
If I recall correctly, the c60 adducts in olive oil are about 720 daltons, which is too large for skin penetration.

Maybe I'm just wasting my c60 and squalane by applying it topically.
Not even sure DMSO would be able to pull it in.

[niner]

Is there any reason to believe that the c60 adducts formed in squalane are any different in size than the ones formed in olive oil?

I'm just thinking about topical application.
If I recall correctly, the c60 adducts in olive oil are about 720 daltons, which is too large for skin penetration.

Maybe I'm just wasting my c60 and squalane by applying it topically.
Not even sure DMSO would be able to pull it in.

Given that squalane is saturated, I'm not sure that there is any adduct formation. At least not by a Diels-Alder route. Maybe some sort of radical addition, but I'm not sure how that gets initiated. I think you might just have a solution here. The c60 olive oil adducts are way more than 720 d, since pristine c60 is 720 by itself. Size, shape, and hydrophobicity have a lot to do with transdermal penetration- it's not just molecular weight alone. C60/squalane has been looked at by some Japanese scientists. There have been some refs posted here, somewhere. The upshot, as I recall, was that it got into skin and did something useful.

[Turnbuckle]

Maybe I'm just wasting my c60 and squalane by applying it topically.

As clinical evaluations of wrinkle grades, visual observation and photographs, and silicone replicas of both crow's feet areas were taken at baseline (0 week) and at 4th and 8th weeks. Skin replicas were analyzed using an optical profilometry technique. The wrinkle and skin-surface roughness features were calculated and statistically analyzed. Subsequently, trans-epidermal water loss (TEWL), moisture levels of the stratum corneum, and visco-elasticity (suppleness: RO and elasticity: R7) were measured on cheeks by instrumental analysis. LF-SQ [C60 in squalane] cream enhanced the skin moisture and the anti-wrinkle formation. LF-SQ cream that was applied on a face twice daily was not effective at 4th week, but significantly more effective than the placebo at 8th week (p < 0.05) without severe side effects. The roughness-area ratio showed significant improvement (p < 0.05) at 8th week with LF-SQ cream as compared to 0 week with LF-SQ cream, but no significant difference was detected between LF-SQ cream and the placebo. We suggest that LF-SQ could be used as an active ingredient for wrinkle-care cosmetics.

Clinical evaluation of fullerene-C60 dissolved in squalane for anti-wrinkle cosmetics.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 02 September 2013 - 01:53 PM.

[niner]

Thanks for finding that, TB. Maybe it would be better to stick with what works- oral c60-oo. It's good for skin, particularly atopic and some other inflammatory conditions, and it's good for the inside too.

[xEva]

Why not dissolve c60oo in squalene by simply mixing it in?

[Turnbuckle]

Why not dissolve c60oo in squalene by simply mixing it in?

C60 might dissolve more readily in squalene than squalane, as with the latter, adduct formation is unlikely, so the solubility is <300 ppm.

Squalene doesn't look too bad--

Squalene, an isoprenoid compound structurally similar to beta-carotene, is an intermediate metabolite in the synthesis of cholesterol. In humans, about 60 percent of dietary squalene is absorbed. It is transported in serum generally in association with very low density lipoproteins and is distributed ubiquitously in human tissues, with the greatest concentration in the skin, where it is one of the major components of skin surface lipids. Squalene is not very susceptible to peroxidation and appears to function in the skin as a quencher of singlet oxygen, protecting human skin surface from lipid peroxidation due to exposure to UV and other sources of ionizing radiation. Supplementation of squalene to mice has resulted in marked increases in cellular and non-specific immune functions in a dose-dependent manner. Squalene may also act as a "sink" for highly lipophilic xenobiotics. Since it is a nonpolar substance, it has a higher affinity for un-ionized drugs. In animals, supplementation of the diet with squalene can reduce cholesterol and triglyceride levels. In humans, squalene might be a useful addition to potentiate the effects of some cholesterol-lowering drugs. The primary therapeutic use of squalene currently is as an adjunctive therapy in a variety of cancers. Although epidemiological, experimental and animal evidence suggests anti-cancer properties, to date no human trials have been conducted to verify the role this nutrient might have in cancer therapy regimens.

http://www.altmedrev...ions/4/1/29.pdf

Edited by Turnbuckle, 03 September 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Update: The 300 ppm solution of C60 in squalane never changed from its original vaguely yellowish color, so I finally added 10% squalene to it, but still no change over a period of two weeks. So it seems that neither squalane nor squalene form adducts, and what I have is naked C60 in solution. I've taken it three times now, and I can't say that anything stands out for me. Of course, after taking C60 for a year and a half, it's hard to tell.

Note: This solution might be a good starting point for adding adducts to C60 without using a huge amount of it.

[Turnbuckle]

Another update on .3 mg/ml C60 in squalene--

Gave it to my two aging dogs and they've been running around for a few days like they were years younger.

Tried it on split skin near a fingernail that generally take days to heal and is constantly irritating, and a few hours later I felt nothing there, as if already healed. So it seems that C60 in squalene might have the same effect on stem cells as C60 in olive oil.