23 replies to this topic

[bernard]

Has anyone tried Dopa Mucuna (mucuna puriens) supplements ? Do they really work for confidence and at what dose ? Thanks.

[addx]

Tried them, they only make me nervous.

[Metagene]

No confidence increase for me.

[nupi]

At best it makes me a bit hyper but no confidence increase for me. The stuff is has a couple of health concerns...

[Ribby]

Don't use that crap! That's basically l-dopa, which is prescribed for parkinsons. There are quite a few sides, and tolerance sets in quickly.

[bernard]

Anyone else ?

[Jeoshua]

L-Dopa is a natural precursor to Dopamine (and Norepinephrine). It would not have any effects on your confidence levels unless you are naturally low in Dopamine. However, that does describe probably a good quarter of people, what with the high levels of ADD and Autism Spectrum diseases in the world, today.

If you're trying to up your confidence levels, the better question is: Why are you lacking confidence? Do you feel there is something wrong with you? Or are you beautiful and fit and smart and just don't know why you're awkward? If you're otherwise awesome, and feel it's probably just a chemical imballance, then maybe upping your dopamine levels could work.

A (possibly) better solution would be to supplement L-Phenylalanine, L-Tyrosine, and L-Tryptophan at the same time, in decreasing values (Phe > Tyr > Trp), along with Vitamin C and B6. Those would be the precursors to all your monoamine neurotransmitters, along with the most relevant co-factors. Dopamine cannot be created in your brain without activating the same channels those that synthesize Serotonin, and without both being made, nothing will happen. These substances also have other good effects on overall cognition and bodily function, so it's a lot safer to do it that way.

Edited by Jeoshua, 12 January 2014 - 06:09 PM.

[bernard]

Wow, that's a really nice reply. What do you think about DL-Phenylalanine ? And how about 5-HTP instead of L-Tryptophan ?

Edited by Tatsumaru, 12 January 2014 - 07:31 PM.

[Jeoshua]

DLPA is only half as effective by weight as L-Phenylalanine (the D- racemate is not as active as the L-), but is otherwise equivallent. And I would stay away from 5-HTP, along with L-Dopa, unless you are also phenylketoneutric along with having known low levels of these neurotransmitters. Skipping the first step of biosynthesis makes it get to your brain faster, and can be more effective, but it also takes away your brain's ability to moderate how much will be created and transformed into Neurotransmitters. And with phenylketoneutria, skipping that step can be the only effective way to supplement those neurotransmitters. Tetrahydrobiopterin (BH₄) defficiencies mean that all the other synthesis steps on that graph marked with the bold arrows are not as efficient. Unfortunately, somehow BioMarin was able to patent BH₄ under the trade name Kuvan (how they were able to patent a naturally occuring substance in your brain, I will never know), and as such it is a prescription only drug (and very expensive) in the US and allied territories.

Edited by Jeoshua, 12 January 2014 - 07:50 PM.

[bernard]

I see. Thanks so much.

[bernard]

I am not sure you are correct about the DLPA. According to wiki:

The biological functions of D-amino acids remain unclear although some, such as D-phenylalanine, may have pharmacological activity D-phenylalanine, in particular, has been postulated to inhibit the enzymes that breakdown enkephalins, giving it a potential analgesic profile.

L-Phenylalanine also inhibits neurotransmitter release at glutamatergic synapses in hippocampus and cortex with IC₅₀ of 980 µM, a brain concentration seen in classical phenylketonuria

This doesn't sound quite well. Glutamate appears to be really important for cognitive performance. What would come out of its inhibition ?

Also what about dosage:
L-Phenylalanine 3 x 500mg/day
L-Tyrosine 3 x 400mg/day
L-Tryptophan 3 x 300mg/day

Does that sound good ? P.S. Yes, I do have very low dopamine levels.

Edited by Tatsumaru, 13 January 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[Jeoshua]

Hmm, well I knew L-Phe was a better idea than DLPA, and I don't know exactly what decreased Glu activity might do, subjectively, but it would be short lived while the L-Phe was converted into L-Try -> L-Dopa -> Dopamine. I've taken such a stack, at somewhat lower levels, and noticed that at first I felt a bit chilled out, calm, and then throughout the day I seemed to wake up very much more than normal.

This sound like fairly high levels. But that should work fairly well to increase your neurotransmitters. You have to remember to increase your B6 and C levels, too, to make sure the BH₄ and other associated cycles that create the enzymes are likewise elevated, to make sure that Phenylalanine, at least, gets cycled through. Once it is you shouldn't notice too much of an effect from it. At first you will likely be a bit tired with this stack, maybe take it with some coffee or tea to fight off that initial tiredness, but the Tyrosine might work just fine, for that.

The specific side effects of this stack will vary due to your individual body chemistry, and how you take them. Taken as powder, expect a slight amount of nausea, so take it with some food. As pills, probably no nausea. The L-Trp itself will calm you down a bit. The L-Tyr will give you a little energy, which probably will even out. And the L-Phe will give a delayed boost of energy, since it has to go through more steps.

[Thorsten3]

Mucuna works well for me in areas of confidence. I haven't taken it for prolonged periods, but I think it is actually a herb that you should take regularly if you want to see its puported benefits.

It kind of makes me a bit driven, and it can give you confidence in social situations, too. Goes well with CITEP. Goes well with sarcosine.

If you want to try mucuna, make sure you get a good extract.

Edited by Thorsten2, 14 January 2014 - 08:43 PM.

[bernard]

A lot of people complain of serious side effects from Dopa Mucuna. What are those ?

[lammas2]

A lot of people complain of serious side effects from Dopa Mucuna. What are those ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-DOPA#Side_effects

[bernard]

This is for the medicinal preparation of Levodopa. Dopa Mucuna doesn't contain nearly as much levodopa, so I am not concerned with side effects too much. I think I will give it a try and after that I will try the amino acid stack to compare efficacy and side effects profile. Thanks for the info.

[Guardian4981]

I used mucana and like it.

Here is some tips from my experience. Taking it at night for whatever reason seems to work better then taking it during the day or am. Be carefull though, too much may cause difficulty falling asleep, but the dose I take I have not run into problems. It also may be beneficial to have periodic days off, I usually go 2 days on one day off. For me, the effects seem to build up, so if I take too many days in a row I have a hard time getting to sleep and become a bit manic.

A quality b6 is important, I take a small dose of meythfolate every few days, again if I take too often seems to cause sides.

Consider trying supplements that may augment dopamine, I am experiencing with gynostemma, catuaba bark is another that come to mind.

My dopamine has always been way too low, this seems to at least help me get to a decent level.

[nowayout]

No.

[bernard]

I used mucana and like it.

Here is some tips from my experience. Taking it at night for whatever reason seems to work better then taking it during the day or am. Be carefull though, too much may cause difficulty falling asleep, but the dose I take I have not run into problems. It also may be beneficial to have periodic days off, I usually go 2 days on one day off. For me, the effects seem to build up, so if I take too many days in a row I have a hard time getting to sleep and become a bit manic.

A quality b6 is important, I take a small dose of meythfolate every few days, again if I take too often seems to cause sides.

Consider trying supplements that may augment dopamine, I am experiencing with gynostemma, catuaba bark is another that come to mind.

My dopamine has always been way too low, this seems to at least help me get to a decent level.

Never take dopamine precursors or dopamine agonists before bed...

[Guardian4981]

I used mucana and like it.

Here is some tips from my experience. Taking it at night for whatever reason seems to work better then taking it during the day or am. Be carefull though, too much may cause difficulty falling asleep, but the dose I take I have not run into problems. It also may be beneficial to have periodic days off, I usually go 2 days on one day off. For me, the effects seem to build up, so if I take too many days in a row I have a hard time getting to sleep and become a bit manic.

A quality b6 is important, I take a small dose of meythfolate every few days, again if I take too often seems to cause sides.

Consider trying supplements that may augment dopamine, I am experiencing with gynostemma, catuaba bark is another that come to mind.

My dopamine has always been way too low, this seems to at least help me get to a decent level.

Never take dopamine precursors or dopamine agonists before bed...

Why is that? Generally I agree, however again I find for myself it works better. It does not hinder my sleep and I feel more rested upon waking.

[bernard]

Dopamine levels are lower in the morning and gradually rise throughout the day to reach their peak in the night. The incidence of dopamine intoxication and dopamine side effects increases drastically if any dopamine increasing or potentiating agents are taking later during the day. This can be seen in the prescription leaflets of most dopamine agonists and L-Dopa as well.

[Guardian4981]

I am going to have to research this again because last time I looked at this a source said dopamine peaks in the morning and is part of the "morning wood" experience for many.

[bernard]

Read the book about Bromocriptine from Lyle McDonald. It's called "Bromocriptine"

[Introspecta]

Yeah it would make sense that Dopamine would be higher in morning because testosterone is much higher. Anyways I've been supplementing with Mucuna and think i'm noticing an above average baseline mood and minor increased confidence. I've also been taking Raw Maca which is said to be not as absorbable as Gelatanized Maca so I don't believe the effects are from the Maca. My Mucuna Brand is 40% L dopa. I take about 1 capsule per day. Occasionaly I will take DLPA in the morning. I'm hoping with these increased Dopamine levels I'm not downregulating anything and causing damage so will def be cycling these.