69 replies to this topic

[JBForrester]

So just an update -

I've been taking the iron supplements for some time and it seems that my skin is getting worst and I look far older than I have. This all is a mystery to me, but I think - after tracking on Cronometer for about 3 weeks - it could be primarily because a) I'm not getting enough Vitamin C, Bs, E, or A b) eating too much sugar nearly every day (my limit is 30mg per day), c) I'm simply not eating enough calories (on average I've been eating about a gross average 1400, plus exercise, meaning about 1200 net).

I just received my shipment of Tocomin Suptrabio 50mg today, and then a shipment of Magnesium L-Threonate. Yesterday I bought Ester-C supplement 500mg and will be taking 4 of those per day. I also bought Maca-root supplements in hope that it will help increase my low adipose tissue on my face.

I'm going to stop taking my Iron supplements though and get a test done next week on my levels (I found out you have to stop one week before getting tested to make sure labs are correct, which could explain my high iron saturation last time). I don't think I will continue though because of what I've read in terms of premature aging and iron. Not the best sources, but still interesting considering what seems to be rapid aging:
http://www.chiro.org...ood_Thing.shtml
http://raypeat.com/a...n-dangers.shtml

[Matt]

After going vegan and consuming less iron, I didn't notice any slowing of hair growth while my levels were dropping over time. My hair grows about 10" a year still (I suppose genetics play a role here). I came across this a while back, perhaps it will be of interest to you.

Probiotic Bacteria Induce a ‘Glow of Health’

http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0053867
Radiant skin and hair are universally recognized as indications of good health. However, this ‘glow of health’ display remains poorly understood. We found that feeding of probiotic bacteria to aged mice induced integumentary changes mimicking peak health and reproductive fitness characteristic of much younger animals. Eating probiotic yogurt triggered epithelial follicular anagen-phase shift with sebocytogenesis resulting in thick lustrous fur due to a bacteria-triggered interleukin-10-dependent mechanism. Aged male animals eating probiotics exhibited increased subcuticular folliculogenesis, when compared with matched controls, yielding luxuriant fur only in probiotic-fed subjects. Female animals displayed probiotic-induced hyperacidity coinciding with shinier hair, a feature that also aligns with fertility in human females. Together these data provide insights into mammalian evolution and novel strategies for integumentary health.

Edited by Matt, 11 October 2013 - 08:36 PM.

[JohnD60]

I had high serum iron levels and high hemocrit. I began donating blood once every 8 weeks in order to reduce iron levels (the maximum allowed without special doctor prescription). My iron levels are now mid range but my hemocrit is still well above average. I am not sure why iron levels would drop so much, but hemocrit would stay high, but they did. This may or may not work for you. Just one man's experience.

[niner]

I've been taking the iron supplements for some time and it seems that my skin is getting worst and I look far older than I have. This all is a mystery to me, but I think - after tracking on Cronometer for about 3 weeks - it could be primarily because a) I'm not getting enough Vitamin C, Bs, E, or A b) eating too much sugar nearly every day (my limit is 30mg per day), c) I'm simply not eating enough calories (on average I've been eating about a gross average 1400, plus exercise, meaning about 1200 net).

I just received my shipment of Tocomin Suptrabio 50mg today, and then a shipment of Magnesium L-Threonate. Yesterday I bought Ester-C supplement 500mg and will be taking 4 of those per day. I also bought Maca-root supplements in hope that it will help increase my low adipose tissue on my face.

JB, based on your Cronometer results, and how things are going generally, with the rapid aging that you're describing, I think that the answer, or at least a big part of it, is going to be found in your diet. Nutrient deficiencies, excess sugar (I'm assuming you mean 30 grams, not milligrams), and a calorie deficit are all things that will contribute to an aged appearance. You probably do need some more adipose tissue in your face, as that will both smooth out the wrinkles and give you the glow of youth. Rather than using maca, I'd try increasing your intake of healthy fats while reducing sugars. Pushing the simple carbs down and raising fat (particularly coconut oil) should help you to put on some subcutaneous fat without increasing visceral fat. There's nothing like a fat tummy to make you feel like you need to diet, but eating sugar at the expense of fat actually makes that worse rather than better. What does Cron-o-meter say about your macronutrient ratios? I'm concerned that protein is too low. Are all of your other micronutrient levels ok?

[JBForrester]

Hey niner - I think you're totally right. Yes, I meant 30 g not mg. I've been bumping it up to what it should be, that is, 1689 calories. So far I'm now at a gross average of 1531, with a net of about 1499. I've been eating a full 1700 for the past 4 days though and feel great. The only thing is fruit - a lot of the times the excess sugar comes from merely eating 2 pieces of fruit (banana and apple = around 29.4g). Does sugar from fruit count do you think? I'll admit I also sometimes eat other sugary things, which I agree probably contribute to aging. You are right about protein. My macronutrient ratio is the following: Carbs @ 48.5%, Lipids @ 32 %, and Proteins @ 19.5%. What should protein be at? I'll include healthier fats in my diet overall. I had a free sample of a procedure called thermage on my face when I was 24 (and very naive), which dimished a majority of the fat in my face though. So I realize the only way of getting a lot of fat back in my face is probably through a fat transfer, unfortunately. I'll try with the coconut oil though. Also, I've been trying to increase the level of hydroxyproline in my diet by combining low fat, unsalted cottage cheese (which has about 3986mg of proline in 200 calories worth) and then combining it with a fruit high in vitamin C such as pineapple or fresh tangerines to chemically turn it into hydroxyproline. Also, when I see I'm deficient in any vitamins or minerals on Cronometer, I try to supplement them individually. Just bought individual B6, B12, Niacin, Selenium, L-Arginine, and Glycine supplements which were on average the lowest on my Cronometer.

[JBForrester]

@ Matt - that's really interesting what you say about Probiotics. I definitely don't eat enough of them. I don't eat much yogurt if at all. Will try though. Thanks for the advice!

@ JohnD60 - I'm still a pre-menopausal woman, so I'm already set But thank you for your advice. I probably will stop using iron supplements at that time of the month then, which is what I usually do to compensate for blood loss (sorry if I'm being graphic).

[niner]

JB, 19.5% protein isn't too bad, though you have some room to bring it up a bit (~25%, for example), which might be a good idea for growing better hair and skin. You might want to look into a hydrolyzed collagen supplement or gelatin in order to get the particular amino acids for making collagen, since they are unusual. I'm not sure how well the proline + fruit -> hydroxyproline thing is really going to work. It would probably be better to get it already formed.

[JBForrester]

Hey niner - I'm going to start consuming gelatin instead, as the cottage cheese is making me sick. Veggie whey gelatin smoothies...

As an update, I got my test back and after not taking my Ferrex for 2 weeks, I'm at ferritin levels of 27 (one up from before) and iron saturation at 48%, which is 10% lower than what it was before. Good thing about that, but not the ferritin.

I'm scared shitless about what I should do - ever since having taken the iron supplements a while back it seemed like I had aged tremendously. I think it was from the iron saturation but I'm not too sure. I had been taking it on and off, so it could be because of that too. But I haven't aged like this in a while.

And Ray Peat made a big deal in this article about how iron is dangerous and leads to rapid aging. Anyone have a say in this?
http://raypeat.com/a...n-dangers.shtml

Basically, I don't know if my rapid aging is from the low ferritin (it should be at 70) or from the iron saturation being too high (the highest it should be is 50). Or BOTH!

SO, my question is to anyone, should I take a lower iron supplement that gradually raises my ferritin levels, or should I stick with the high-end iron supps? On average, it takes 6 months for the high-end supps to get to 70, and based on my rate (it took me 3 months to get from 20 to 27), it will take me much longer. And so that means, if I take a lower level iron supplement, it will take me a very long time. I'm trying NOT to age rapidly, but I feel like I'm in a catch-22!!! Should I got to a hemotologist??

P.S. I've been taking all of those extra supps (vit C, multis, vit E, B vitamins, etc.) and it seems that they haven't done very much... Don't know what to do at this point...

[mikey]

Hey niner - I'm going to start consuming gelatin instead, as the cottage cheese is making me sick. Veggie whey gelatin smoothies...

As an update, I got my test back and after not taking my Ferrex for 2 weeks, I'm at ferritin levels of 27 (one up from before) and iron saturation at 48%, which is 10% lower than what it was before. Good thing about that, but not the ferritin.

I'm scared shitless about what I should do - ever since having taken the iron supplements a while back it seemed like I had aged tremendously. I think it was from the iron saturation but I'm not too sure. I had been taking it on and off, so it could be because of that too. But I haven't aged like this in a while.

And Ray Peat made a big deal in this article about how iron is dangerous and leads to rapid aging. Anyone have a say in this?
http://raypeat.com/a...n-dangers.shtml

Basically, I don't know if my rapid aging is from the low ferritin (it should be at 70) or from the iron saturation being too high (the highest it should be is 50). Or BOTH!

SO, my question is to anyone, should I take a lower iron supplement that gradually raises my ferritin levels, or should I stick with the high-end iron supps? On average, it takes 6 months for the high-end supps to get to 70, and based on my rate (it took me 3 months to get from 20 to 27), it will take me much longer. And so that means, if I take a lower level iron supplement, it will take me a very long time. I'm trying NOT to age rapidly, but I feel like I'm in a catch-22!!! Should I got to a hemotologist??

P.S. I've been taking all of those extra supps (vit C, multis, vit E, B vitamins, etc.) and it seems that they haven't done very much... Don't know what to do at this point...

Iron has a potential for toxicity as a pro-oxidant.

However, there are antioxidant mechanisms that make iron a harmless puppy and a valuable nutrient for heart health, hair health and immune strength.

For instance, when a lethal dose of iron was given to mice that had an injection of vitamin E before, none of the mice died. As well, there was a time curve, where if the mice were given a lethal dose of iron and then vitamin E was given in different time intervals after the lethal dose was given the percent of mice that survived followed the intervals.

http://jn.nutrition....23/10/1649.long

ABSTRACT This study examined the effect of excess dietary iron on liver function, iron and vitamin E status and the protective activity of vitamin E. Consumption of excess dietary iron (3000, 5000, 8000 mg iron/kg/diet) compared with consumption of the control diet (120 mg iron/kg diet) by weanling male CD-I mice for 7 wk resulted in accumulation of iron in liver, increased relative liver weights and a reduction in hepatic vitamin E stores. The concentration of vitamin E in the liver was negatively correlated with dietary iron concentration (r = 0.998). Weekly administration of vitamin E (20 mg/kg, subcutaneously) prevented iron-induced liver damage without altering hepatic iron stores. Pretreatment of adult male CD-I mice with a single subcutaneous dose of vitamin E (20 mg/kg body wt) 24 h prior to a lethal dose of iron (60 mg/kg, ¡ntraperitoneally)resulted in 100% protection. A similar dose of vitamin E given 5, 30 or 60 min (intravenously) after iron intoxication enhanced survival to 90, 70 and 80%, respectively, compared with the untreated control group. Vitamin E treatment 30 min after iron intoxication reduced mortality by 75% compared with intravenous treatment with
10 mg/kg of deferoxamine (Desierai). Data in this study indicate that vitamin E may be a useful antidote for iron
toxicoses and that iron-induced depletion of vitamin E may play a role in the pathogenesis of iron toxicity. J. Nutr. 123: 1649-1655, 1993.

Since over 90% of the US population is deficient in vitamin E, it is likely that iron toxicity will be seen.

So, it's prudent to take high doses of vitamin E, such as 800 IU per day.

And recently, one of the foremost authorities on vitamin E showed that it's nearly impossible to experience toxicity from vitamin E.

Traber MG. Mechanisms for the prevention of vitamin E excess. J Lipid Res. 2013 Sep;54(9):2295-306.
Doi: 10.1.1194/jlr.R032946. Epub 2013 Mar 15.

[JBForrester]

Oh interesting! Thanks, Mikey! So are you saying I should take vitamin E, 800iu with the iron supplements? Maybe this will solve my high saturation, while maintaining growth in ferritin levels?

[mikey]

Vitamin E helps to control iron's potential as a pro-oxidant, so, really, everyone should take 800 IU/day, since the stat is over 90% of Americans are deficient in vitamin E.

No wonder everyone is freaking out about the "danger" of iron.

Of course its dangerous when you're deficient in a nutrient that has such a potent effect on neutralizing its oxidative potential.

[JBForrester]

So just looking up more studies - so from what I understand, oxidative stress is going to happen no matter what with the supplemental iron. Is that correct? Vit E can decrease the stress, but by how much?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11736731

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14585310

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12368409

This is just crazy, so is the damage that happened to my face from the supplementation irreversable? I remember taking Viviscal about 6 months ago thinking that it would help my hair a lot but looking at pics, I looked absolutely horrible! I'm going to take Vitamin E 400iu, 2 x daily. Maybe some Pycnogenol as well? And the Vitamin C, of course.

I've decided I completely do not trust dermatologists. Every single time I go to them, they deny any type of risk factors associated with whatever they are treating me with. Rogaine, now iron supps. Both aging me within months. Thank goodness for longecity members. I'm faxing this dermatologist all these studies.

Vitamin E helps to control iron's potential as a pro-oxidant, so, really, everyone should take 800 IU/day, since the stat is over 90% of Americans are deficient in vitamin E.

No wonder everyone is freaking out about the "danger" of iron.

Of course its dangerous when you're deficient in a nutrient that has such a potent effect on neutralizing its oxidative potential.

Gotcha. Thank you. So my question is then, what do you think about iron supplementation? Should I not take it or do you think it's fine to take it in conjuction with vitamin E without the risk of aging, i.e. oxidative damage?

[JBForrester]

Does anybody know how I should be spacing the Vitamin E supplements with the Iron supplements? Should I take it immediately before/after or 6 hours before like the studies did? Is there a reason why they chose to do it this way? Or should I simply stop taking iron supplements, or maybe take small portions (65mg) instead of one big one (150mg)?

[JBForrester]

And can I reverse any of it? Or are these jowls and sunken eyes now permanent?

Wow... See the study below:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC340385/

Vitamin C not happening, at least not while I'm on iron supplements, sorry...

[niner]

Yeah, Iron plus vitamin C is bad news. When I was in grad school, I heard a talk about a guy who used both Fe and C (presumably large doses) for a long time. It eventually killed him. They figured it out after the autopsy.

[JBForrester]

Oh my gosh... Yeah I'm going to stop iron all together I think. Just going to get it through my diet. Taking B12 and Folic acid, plus vitamin E and selenium, and that's it. Nothing else.

[scottknl]

From a food perspective, I get lots of my iron from eating spinach (both raw and cooked) and also lots of vitamin A, and K too. I eat small amounts of 12 - 15 different veggies every day and altogether that provides my folate requirement. Vitamin E comes mainly from sunflower seeds in my diet. Selenium comes from a 1/2 brazil nut per day. I do admit that B12 is mostly from supplements though. Small changes in your diet can make big changes in your health and appearance.

My hair has improved since I improved my diet from standard american junk to a careful CRON diet where I get RDA+ for all my nutrients. Unfortunately it's not back to what it was when I was a younger lad.

[mikey]

Does anybody know how I should be spacing the Vitamin E supplements with the Iron supplements? Should I take it immediately before/after or 6 hours before like the studies did? Is there a reason why they chose to do it this way? Or should I simply stop taking iron supplements, or maybe take small portions (65mg) instead of one big one (150mg)?

Iron and vitamin E should be taken at separate times because they alter each other's form when combined.

Best to take vitamin E maybe first thing in the AM, and then take iron with a meal that contains something acidic as a study showed that absorption was increased 87% when taken with orange juice, because of the citric and ascorbic acids. Red wine or grape juice caused a 300% increase in absorption because of the malic acid.

I took 200 mg of iron carbonyl , as 100 mg twice a day 3 days a week to raise my ferritin and it went above 70 and I'm taking iron-free vitamins now, because I eat red meat - grass-fed only
See: http://www.michaelmo...MeatandDie.html - and ferritin has remained in the right range for a couple years.

And can I reverse any of it? Or are these jowls and sunken eyes now permanent?

Wow... See the study below:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC340385/

Vitamin C not happening, at least not while I'm on iron supplements, sorry...

Once again, they misunderstand the real problem. Iron without enough vitamin E expresses pro-oxidant effect.

The problem is not iron - it's a deficiency of vitamin E.

And can I reverse any of it? Or are these jowls and sunken eyes now permanent?

Wow... See the study below:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC340385/

Vitamin C not happening, at least not while I'm on iron supplements, sorry...

I found that taking 7 mg of C60 (fullerene) definitely improved the health of elastin and collagen in my face, so it can tighten skin up and reduce wrinkles. After a year of taking it there is no doubt- because numerous friends say it - if I died my hair I'd look 40 and I'm 60.

[mikey]

Yeah, Iron plus vitamin C is bad news. When I was in grad school, I heard a talk about a guy who used both Fe and C (presumably large doses) for a long time. It eventually killed him. They figured it out after the autopsy.

Once again. the problem is a deficiency of vitamin E. Iron's potential for oxidative toxicity is neutralized by adequate vitamin E.

Vitamin C improves absorption of iron, which is, in general, a poorly absorbed nutrient, with heme (red blood) iron absorbing much better than vegetable or supplemental iron.

Vegetarians would do best to take iron with acids, like vitamin C for optimal use of iron in the body.

[JBForrester]

Mikey, did you notice any differences in your skin when you had your ferritin levels at 70? That's where I want to be.

I think what I will be doing is taking ferritin only once, maximum twice, per week. A study on anemic pregnant women showed that this did just the same as taking it daily but without the side effects:
http://www.thelifest...n-in-pregnancy/

I'm not pregnant but I would assume it could still apply to me.

Also, this is kind of gross, but my BO smelled very metallic while tapering off the iron. Any correlation between sweat and indication of iron overload? Just a curiosity.

[mikey]

I didn't notice any change in body odor.
I did supplement basically every other day to re-build my low ferritin to get it up to around 70 ng.

I didn't notice any changes in skin due to iron - but I don't know - but I definitely have noticed a tremendous difference in my skin using C60 fullerene, which is something like 172 times a stronger antioxidant than vitamin C. I think C60 improves the health of elastin and collagen in skin by protecting them from oxidation.

Iron can be a pro-oxidant, so if its oxidative potential isn't controlled it can cause cellular aging, in skin and all other tissues.

Vitamin E well controls iron's oxidative potential and I would think that C60 does, too.

[JBForrester]

C60 seems pretty early in its stages right now, which worries me... I'm still trying to even comprehend the posts and topics members put on the C60 health forum. To know where to buy it, what to look for, how much to take, how often to take it, when to stop, if you should make your own, etc. all bewilders and overwhelms me. I'd love to take it, but with my luck I'd be afraid to screw it up and do more damage than good. Unless someone can convince me otherwise.

[mikey]

C60 seems pretty early in its stages right now, which worries me... I'm still trying to even comprehend the posts and topics members put on the C60 health forum. To know where to buy it, what to look for, how much to take, how often to take it, when to stop, if you should make your own, etc. all bewilders and overwhelms me. I'd love to take it, but with my luck I'd be afraid to screw it up and do more damage than good. Unless someone can convince me otherwise.

It's very simple. We do have some brilliant people on this site who are making it seem complicated, and even scary.

Like the notion that it can cause mitochondrial toxicity.

I'm amazed that some brainiacs can be so lost when it comes to the "smell test."

I put the following text on my profile page:

Rationale For Taking C60oo (C60 in olive oil) Every Day
I note that I am in the camp that believes that taking C60oo every day consistently is the optimum use of it for anti-aging purposes.

Another camp, which includes some brilliant people thinks that the best use is to dose intermittently, based on theories that C60oo could cause mitochondrial toxicity if dosed consistently and that the authors of the study, "Prolongation of the lifespan of rats..." stumbled on something” when they dosed the rats intermittently.

Several things make me believe that dosing every day is optimum.

First, in the video interview of Dr. Fathi Moussa, lead author of the study, viewed at http://c60.net/full-...r-fathi-moussa/ Dr. Moussa specifically states that C60 is "absolutely" not toxic. He states this two times in the interview, also saying over long term.

So the people who believe the notion that C60oo taken every day could cause some kind of mitochodrial toxicity are at odds with what Dr. Moussa stated.

Dr. Moussa has studied C60 for 18 years. He is an authority on C60 and several medical areas.

When a scientist of his stature states that C60oo is “absolutely not toxic,” we can be sure that he is quite confident in the words he uses.

He further says that the reason the rats were dosed intermittently is because the rats would suffer "lipid overload" -- too much fat from the olive oil if they received it every day.

Humans do not have this problem.

Therefore, I find the theory that C60oo use every day could cause mitochodrial toxicity lacks credibility, based on the work of Dr Moussa, which everyone who is taking C60oo relies on, via his study.

I've only noticed benefits, not problems.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I buy it from Carbon, who used to post on this site. He started a company producing it exactly as it was produced for Dr. Moussa's study. I considered doing what he is doing, but I have a fast-growing company and it would be a distraction from my primary responsibilities at work.

I would make it, but I would rather pay for it and save myself precious time.

Carbon sells it at C60 - http://www.carbon60o....com/index.html

I buy ten bottles at a time for the best price and take 7 mg a day and have since early August, 2012.

Turnbuckle started out taking 2 mg a day and found that a bald spot on his crown was half filled in with hair and where statins destroyed his endurance to run, within a few days of taking 2 mg/day he could run 4 miles again.

So 2 mg is effective. I just tend to take higher doses of substances that I am sure exhibit no toxicity.

I'm turned eight friends on to taking 2 mg/day and urged them to take high res photos of their face before and then at six months and one year to see how much their facial skin will change.

When new friends hear that I am 60 years old, they typically say, "If you died your hair you'd look 40."

I have experienced probably a ten year reversal of facial wrinkles since I've been taking the C60 in olive oil made by Carbon. I assume that internally I've also experienced reversal of aging, because "as above, so below."

So, to summarize, C60 is, by far, among the many things I've experimented with for life-extension, the most effective.

It protects from many degenerative conditions of aging, functioning as an antioxidant, with a reported 172 times more antioxidant potential than vitamin C, while also getting into smaller compartments in metabolism than other antioxidants.

The only thing it doesn't seem to do is protect the cardiovascular system, but maybe that will be discovered, too.

Since the rats in Dr. Moussa's study died with no cancerous tumors, which all Wistar rats normally die with, I believe that even if it doesn't extend my lifespan I won't get cancer.

And that's enough reason to spend about $150/month on 7 mg a day.

[JohnD60]

@ JohnD60 - I'm still a pre-menopausal woman, so I'm already set But thank you for your advice. I probably will stop using iron supplements at that time of the month then, which is what I usually do to compensate for blood loss (sorry if I'm being graphic).

Not that I am trying to sell you on blood donation, it may not be in any way helpful to you. I just thought I would comment that wikipedia says that blood lose during menstruation is only about 1.25 ounces per month (but maybe you are lucky and have more blood lose ). So 2.5 ounces every two months, vs. about 15 ounces for a typical blood donation every two months.

[JBForrester]

@ Mikey - Out of curiosity, how much C60 would humans need to take to be equivalent to what the mice took in the intermittent study? I would like to take it slowly if I do try it, as jumping right in usually isn't the best for me. If I feel like I can up the dosage/frequency, I'll up it, but I think it's better to start at the baseline. I've done a lot of experimenting with products and supplements and usually I bear the brunt of it. So I think it's time I stick with what the studies say and that's it.

@ JohnD60 - Good to know, thank you. I don't know how it will affect my ferritin however, if I do something like blood donation. I want my ferritin to increase, and my saturation to be in range.

[JBForrester]

By the way, Mikey - so... you say that C60 has taken 10 years off you, do you think it could take 10 years off a 27 year old? (please say yes lol)

[niner]

By the way, Mikey - so... you say that C60 has taken 10 years off you, do you think it could take 10 years off a 27 year old? (please say yes lol)

That would be surprising, since it would involve running development in reverse, correcting photodamage, and all manner of things. On the other hand, if you have certain kinds of damage, maybe it will help you. I just wouldn't hold up a ten year age reversal as a marker of successful use or as something to expect. It's really hard to evaluate things like wrinkles and skin condition from a systemic drug, unless you have some sophisticated equipment to measure skin properties. If you have a topical compound, you can do a split face experiment, where you apply the drug to only one side of the face and watch for an asymmetric improvement. Just basing it on how you look in the mirror is susceptible to a lot of variation.

[niner]

It protects from many degenerative conditions of aging, functioning as an antioxidant, with a reported 172 times more antioxidant potential than vitamin C, while also getting into smaller compartments in metabolism than other antioxidants.

The only thing it doesn't seem to do is protect the cardiovascular system, but maybe that will be discovered, too.

Mikey, where did you find the 172 X vitamin C comparison? I'd like to see what they say and what they're basing that on. I can't imagine why c60 wouldn't protect the cardiovascular system, to the extent that oxidative processes are important there. There are a lot of cardiac conditions where I think it would be effective. If I had a heart attack or a stroke, I'd sure want to have some c60 on board. I think it would be helpful in congestive heart failure, perhaps very much so. Probably good for angina, too. Basically, it's useful in any condition involving hypoxia, among other things.

[JBForrester]

Hm, so you're saying that it could only reverse my age to the extent of when I ceased to develop biologically? I.e. around 24/25 years old? I had a really bad reaction to rogaine 2 years ago - it practically depleted my collagen to the point where I looked like I was about 20 years older. No joke. I've slowly been trying to heal myself from it, but with the amount of time I've been researching ways to reverse it, it seems like I'm getting older anyway! So by the time I think I finally find something, I'll be in my 30s and it'll defeat the purpose. Before the rogaine, guys who were on average 18 and 19 would ask me out on dates, thinking I was their age. So basically, I'm looking for something that will tighten my skin, give it volume, and get rid of the fine wrinkles around the eyes, or get me back to the place where I left off before starting on the rogaine. Mission impossible?

[JBForrester]

Also, I've read that 500 mg, 2 x daily, of L-Carnosine can extend the hayflick limit to 60 instead of 52, by means of flooding the carnosinase enzymes. This isn't the best source but if you scroll down to the cellular photos of young and older skin, it seems quite worthy of trying:
http://www.autismcoa...sm_p/ac-004.htm