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Preventing Possible Accutane Damage

accutane depression accutane

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#31 1kgcoffee

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:05 AM

Suffers of acne and skin diseases in general may experience terrible psychological anguish. My perspective is that your fear-mongering about Accutane is appallingly irresponsible. You may well be frightening desperate or even suicidal people away from a treatment that will bring them great relief.


If a teenager is suicidal over acne maybe they should consider therapy first. If Luminosity is a fear monger then you are a shill.
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#32 nupi

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:53 PM

My dermatologist said that he felt that the gains from Accutane were not permanent. Mine only lasted a year. It seems that some people have permanent gains, but apparently some don't.


Mine were most definitely permanent. As to whether it screwed me up otherwise? Hard to say, I was pretty screwed up (but less aware of it than I am toady) even before. I got depressed a while after stopping it but I put that down to life circumstances, not the Accutane. That episode could have gone even worse if Accutane had not at least gotten rid of the acne beforehand.

As for the fear mongering, I guess it kind of fits the picture (and yes, I vividly remember the pep talk by the dermatologist about pregnancy, even as a guy). But, if people disagree, it's lack of life experience - I've been at the receiving end of that vitriol and some discussion decided it's not worth to bother. *skippedaratherinflammatoryremark*

But yes, if someone is suicidal, Accutane for sure is NOT a first line treatment for anything. Still I maintain it gets a bad rap, considering how widely it has been prescribed, the reports of it being oh so horrible took a good long while to appear. Even so, the purported suicides are few and far between. In any sufficiently large population you will have some of those (my favorite example is Foxconn, the suicide rate at the plant was actually significantly LOWER than the Chinese national average but with 200-300K people, there will invariably be a few). Similar argument for many other drugs, BTW. The people who *perceive* to have been hurt naturally will be by far the most vocal.

Edited by nupi, 02 October 2013 - 01:59 PM.

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#33 Luminosity

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 06:11 AM

It's bizarre to be called a "fear monger" when you are simply sharing your life experience. Sorry what happened to me was not less scary.

I wish the best for Batman; that he will be in the majority who have a good result with no serious side effects. It's unfortunate that this thread is getting sidetracked by those who seem to have other agendas, or have their own issues. People who have serious bad outcomes from Accutane are real and their stories deserve to be told. Just because we aren't consistent with the propaganda or aims of the drug industry is no call for insults, even oblique ones.

Nupi has a rather odd habit of starting an argument, or a not quite argument, and disavowing responsibility, but I've certainly seen worse.

Edited by Luminosity, 03 October 2013 - 06:29 AM.

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#34 TheBatman

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:32 PM

Today is day four with the accutane. My acne has been reduced down to 3 barely noticeable pimples. So far I haven't noticed any side effects at all other than a slightly less oily face, which for me is a good thing. I can honestly say that my face is already more clear than it's been in a long time.

I'm gonna continue with just the 20 mg for at least the first month. I haven't started exercising yet (had to take it easy for a while after I got my wisdom teeth removed), but I'm not to worried about joint pain at this dose.
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#35 8bitmore

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 11:36 AM

I find it odd that no one seems to be discussing the need for upping Vitamin D intake when taking Isotretinoin (Accutane), I read this fairly well referenced material from the Weston A. Price foundation and it seems imperative to supplement Vitamin D when taking what is in essence super charged Vitamin A (i.e. Isotretinoin):

Vitamin D Protects Against the Toxicity of Vitamin A

Research that examines the feeding of high doses of more than one vitamin simultaneously reveals that toxicity is dependent on reactions between different nutrients. For example, studies in rats, turkeys, and chickens have demonstrated that vitamin A both decreases the toxicity of and increases the dietary need for vitamin D, while vitamin D both reduces the toxicity of and increases the dietary need for vitamin A.


Source

edit: I would love to hear ideas or practical experience from people who have tried Isotretinoin together with proper dose of D3 over treatment period and how this (if at all) affected outcome.

edit edit: also, could we get a moderator to fix "Acctuane damage prevention" title of this thread, shame for searching..etc.

Edited by 8bitmore, 04 October 2013 - 11:42 AM.

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#36 TheBatman

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 07:41 PM

I find it odd that no one seems to be discussing the need for upping Vitamin D intake when taking Isotretinoin (Accutane), I read this fairly well referenced material from the Weston A. Price foundation and it seems imperative to supplement Vitamin D when taking what is in essence super charged Vitamin A (i.e. Isotretinoin):

Vitamin D Protects Against the Toxicity of Vitamin A

Research that examines the feeding of high doses of more than one vitamin simultaneously reveals that toxicity is dependent on reactions between different nutrients. For example, studies in rats, turkeys, and chickens have demonstrated that vitamin A both decreases the toxicity of and increases the dietary need for vitamin D, while vitamin D both reduces the toxicity of and increases the dietary need for vitamin A.


Source

edit: I would love to hear ideas or practical experience from people who have tried Isotretinoin together with proper dose of D3 over treatment period and how this (if at all) affected outcome.

edit edit: also, could we get a moderator to fix "Acctuane damage prevention" title of this thread, shame for searching..etc.



Yup I actually mentioned it in my very first post. I'm actually going to go the first month without vitamin D3 supplements though and the second month with them, just to see if I notice any difference.

I'm cool with the title being changed. If we change the title though I would prefer it to say "Preventing possible Accutane damage"

#37 niner

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:11 PM

Yup I actually mentioned it in my very first post. I'm actually going to go the first month without vitamin D3 supplements though and the second month with them, just to see if I notice any difference.

I'm cool with the title being changed. If we change the title though I would prefer it to say "Preventing possible Accutane damage"


OK, I changed the title to that. In the spirit of actually preventing damage, why would you take a risk with not supplementing D3? Do you know what your 25-OH-D3 level is? If not, I'd take 1000 IU in a softgel oil based formulation, and get a level at some point in the future. If there's a chance of significant damage from taking Accutane with a D deficiency, it's not guaranteed that taking D in the future will reverse the damage. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's unlikely.
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#38 TheBatman

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:57 PM

Yup I actually mentioned it in my very first post. I'm actually going to go the first month without vitamin D3 supplements though and the second month with them, just to see if I notice any difference.

I'm cool with the title being changed. If we change the title though I would prefer it to say "Preventing possible Accutane damage"


OK, I changed the title to that. In the spirit of actually preventing damage, why would you take a risk with not supplementing D3? Do you know what your 25-OH-D3 level is? If not, I'd take 1000 IU in a softgel oil based formulation, and get a level at some point in the future. If there's a chance of significant damage from taking Accutane with a D deficiency, it's not guaranteed that taking D in the future will reverse the damage. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's unlikely.



Thanks!

I get quite a bit of vitamin D through food and sunlight already. Next month will be winter for us and that's when i'll start with supplements to make up for the sunlight.

Edited by TheBatman, 04 October 2013 - 08:57 PM.


#39 Luminosity

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:24 AM

vocal.


Nupi, do you work for a drug company?

Edited by Luminosity, 05 October 2013 - 05:25 AM.

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#40 nupi

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 07:24 AM

vocal.


Nupi, do you work for a drug company?


I don't. In fact, I more than once refused to work top tier pharma companies - partially on ethical grounds, partially because I find the business to be boring.

#41 blood

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:54 AM

I'm gonna continue with just the 20 mg for at least the first month. I haven't started exercising yet (had to take it easy for a while after I got my wisdom teeth removed), but I'm not to worried about joint pain at this dose.


I'm glad you're sticking with a conservative dose! It sounds like you don't have cystic acne, so no point taking large doses which increase the chances of side effects.

Have you reconsidered starting on the Vitamin D? Niner made a good point, it can't do any harm taking it, and if there is even a minute chance of reducing sides, why not take it?

(I can appreciate wanting to be methodical, and trialling the accutane with & without Vit D and carefully observing & reporting on your response; then again, you're not running a formal study and you have no obligation to do anything for the greater good. Better to be selfish, and do all you can to reduce any chances of untoward effects).

One study found that Vitamin E reduces side effects of isotretinoin (in cancer patients); another found it had no effect. I suppose it couldn't hurt to take a multi with a low-moderate (say 100 IU) dose of E.


BTW some people get a flare up of acne in the first few weeks, prior to it clearing. But from your comments, it looks like this hasn't happened to you?

#42 TheBatman

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 01:02 AM

I'm gonna continue with just the 20 mg for at least the first month. I haven't started exercising yet (had to take it easy for a while after I got my wisdom teeth removed), but I'm not to worried about joint pain at this dose.


I'm glad you're sticking with a conservative dose! It sounds like you don't have cystic acne, so no point taking large doses which increase the chances of side effects.

Have you reconsidered starting on the Vitamin D? Niner made a good point, it can't do any harm taking it, and if there is even a minute chance of reducing sides, why not take it?

(I can appreciate wanting to be methodical, and trialling the accutane with & without Vit D and carefully observing & reporting on your response; then again, you're not running a formal study and you have no obligation to do anything for the greater good. Better to be selfish, and do all you can to reduce any chances of untoward effects).

One study found that Vitamin E reduces side effects of isotretinoin (in cancer patients); another found it had no effect. I suppose it couldn't hurt to take a multi with a low-moderate (say 100 IU) dose of E.


BTW some people get a flare up of acne in the first few weeks, prior to it clearing. But from your comments, it looks like this hasn't happened to you?


Yeah the conservative dose of about 20-30 mg (its hard to dose correctly because its coming from a 40 mg gel in liquid form) has been great so far . The only side effects i've noticed have been the dry lips, dry hair, and less acne. I actually have started taking about 6,000 IU D3 daily, or at least when I remember to. As far as being methodical though, I would rather not make myself a lab rat.. especially given the title of this thread.

Thanks for the info about vitamin E. I think I'm gonna start eating more veggies just to be safe, It couldn't hurt.

And no I haven't really had any sort of initial breakout, so things are going well.

Edited by TheBatman, 10 October 2013 - 01:04 AM.


#43 Luminosity

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 05:29 AM

Nupi,

So what do you do and who do you work for?

#44 nupi

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:51 PM

Mostly advising banks - big and small. I do not feel like dropping any names and neither am I at liberty to do so, though it's ok to say some of the very big names are among them.

Edited by nupi, 10 October 2013 - 04:52 PM.


#45 1kgcoffee

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:03 AM

Mostly advising banks - big and small. I do not feel like dropping any names and neither am I at liberty to do so, though it's ok to say some of the very big names are among them.


Kinda of off-topic but where do you see the price of gold heading in the next two years?
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#46 nupi

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 06:57 AM

No idea - I don't generally bother trying to beat the markets
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#47 TheBatman

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:14 AM

Update: I've been extremely moody the past week and a half. Also been very angry for seemingly no reason the past 5 days especially. I've had close friends ask me if i'm ok or if I need help. At this point there is an issue with my emotional state and im seriously considering discontinuing it. I have good reason to suspect this episode of brain fog has been more accutane related than than lifestyle or circumstance related.

I'm really trying to give accutane a fair chance, but I can't think of any other explanation for this. No other changes have been made to my daily routine in the past month other than accutane and if anything my life circumstances have gotten better over the past few days. Side effects my hair is thinner and you can see my scalp. My hair was already insanely thin, but now i'm just going bald.

Right now the plan is to refrain from accutane the next week and observe any changes in my mood. If I notice any lift, I'm stopping the treatment.

edit: Part of this might be due to me being overly sensitive to mood changes with all the experimenting I've done with various nootropics and stimulants. Still wouldn't discourage others from using it and I'm sure my mood will be fine in a few days.

In the end though, mood issues are much less bearable for me than acne even if the mood issues only last as long as the treatment.

Edited by TheBatman, 22 October 2013 - 03:25 AM.


#48 blood

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:31 AM

Update: I've been extremely moody the past week and a half. Also been very angry for seemingly no reason the past 5 days especially. I've had close friends ask me if i'm ok or if I need help. At this point there is an issue with my emotional state and im seriously considering discontinuing it.


Fair enough. If you think you are beginning to get side effects that are going to be unbearable, better to stop it. No point tempting fate. Thank you for reporting your observations.

Edited by blood, 22 October 2013 - 05:32 AM.


#49 TheBatman

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:35 PM

Yeah I probably wont go into much detail, but it has had a negative impact on my mind and well being. I went from extremely extroverted to extremely introverted in a matter of 2 weeks.

Just to clarify, my dose was 20-30 mg daily for the past 20 days. I was also taking 10,000 IU D3 which seemed to have no effect whatsoever.

I'll report back on anything I notice in the next few days.

#50 ▲420MD

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 09:19 PM

My advice- don't take it. It worked damn well, but I regret it.

Brother took it, now he has irritable bowl syndrome and some psych issues. Any medicine that comes with a binder full of warnings and disclousures of possible permanent negative lifestyle changing effects is a BAD MEDICINE.
I don't know if they are still required to show patients that binder, but he brought home a 3 ring binder that had to have at least 300 pages minimum. Scary for a medicine and I've been around the block - I've never seen any type of warning list so long that spans past 10 pages(and the 10 page warning) lists are for old sedatives, malaria treatments, old stuff mainly.

Do not take it, I'm a chemist also - and while not knowing everything about biology I can tell you that it messes with way too many systems for you ever to be preventing any damage. If you take something to "prevent damage" your literally going to wind up blocking the effects of accutane, I don't see any ways to migitate the effects besides Vitamin A analogs and they will just do the reverse of accutane.

If you have acne, the hardest treatments I reccomend are antibiotics+antifungals+antiparasitics which kill off any bacteria, fungus(rare) or parasite(common) so your eliminating the cause, and your effect wil be No Acne. Don't mess with crazy ass Accutane.

#51 TheBatman

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:59 PM

Lately my skin has been 90-100% clear and has stayed that way since I tried a few new treatments. I think I have found a cure for my acne and oily skin!

I've been mixing water and baking soda into a paste that I leave on my face for about 10 minutes. After it dries I wash it off and and use an oil free moisturizer. I've done this twice a week and now i'm completley clear! This as well as washing my face in the morning and night with lukewarm water(no cleanser or soap) has done wonders for my skin tone, oil levels, and acne. It has worked better and faster than accutane with no side effects so far.

As a side note I've also been eating gluten free and dairy free for the past 3 weeks, so it may have something to do with it. My skin didn't start clearing up until I used baking soda though.
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#52 TheBatman

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 08:45 PM

Lately my skin has been 90-100% clear and has stayed that way since I tried a few new treatments. I think I have found a cure for my acne and oily skin!

I've been mixing water and baking soda into a paste that I leave on my face for about 10 minutes. After it dries I wash it off and and use an oil free moisturizer. I've done this twice a week and now i'm completley clear! This as well as washing my face in the morning and night with lukewarm water(no cleanser or soap) has done wonders for my skin tone, oil levels, and acne. It has worked better and faster than accutane with no side effects so far.

As a side note I've also been eating gluten free and dairy free for the past 3 weeks, so it may have something to do with it. My skin didn't start clearing up until I used baking soda though.

 

A few months ago ago the baking soda stopped working unfortunately.

 

However I have found a better alternative that will most likely be safer on the skin in the long term in case anyone reading this thread wants to clear up their skin without the risk and pain or an accutane treatment. Over at acne.org they have an acne treatment with benzoyl peroxide that you apply generously every morning and every night. They also have an extremely gentle cleanser to go along with it that. After having used it for a few months, It has done most of the work in clearing up my skin. It's been an excellent acne treatment for me, as nothing else has really worked. The key was being very consistent with it though. On the website there is a regimen and they show you step by step how to use it.  

 

As a treatment benzoyl peroxide is great and has been the bulk of my success , but I had even better results when I also took the time to figure out how to prevent acne. Better stress management has made a world of difference. I understand this isn't just something you can switch on and off, but something that usually takes quite a bit of time. Its a big factor though.

 

I also paid more attention to what was touching my face throughout the day. My hands, clothes, pillow cases, towels, sweat, dirt, ect. Now I make sure everything that touches my face is clean, and that I avoid getting my face dirty. I went and bought 5 pillow cases and I switch them out every other night (or at least when I remember too..)

 

Not sure if exercise has been a factor for acne or not, but I do go to the gym about 3-5 times during the week. I suppose it helps relieve stress which relieves acne at the very least.

 

My diet hasn't really changed a whole lot and if anything it got worse aside from me drinking more water. I eat a whole bunch of crap during the day and with the above treatments It hasn't caused me any acne. 

 

As a side note I still have a problem with razor burn and oily skin. Oily skin however can be managed by putting on a layer of milk of magnesia before moisturizing.  I only use it occasionally though. It may be for the stomach, but it works. For razor burn, I just grew a beard.

 

Honestly I can't believe I ever tried to take accutane - Its just not for minor to moderate acne. I suppose the answer to preventing possible accutane damage is finding an alternative :/


Lately my skin has been 90-100% clear and has stayed that way since I tried a few new treatments. I think I have found a cure for my acne and oily skin!

I've been mixing water and baking soda into a paste that I leave on my face for about 10 minutes. After it dries I wash it off and and use an oil free moisturizer. I've done this twice a week and now i'm completley clear! This as well as washing my face in the morning and night with lukewarm water(no cleanser or soap) has done wonders for my skin tone, oil levels, and acne. It has worked better and faster than accutane with no side effects so far.

As a side note I've also been eating gluten free and dairy free for the past 3 weeks, so it may have something to do with it. My skin didn't start clearing up until I used baking soda though.

 

A few months ago ago the baking soda stopped working unfortunately.

 

However I have found a better alternative that will most likely be safer on the skin in the long term in case anyone reading this thread wants to clear up their skin without the risk and pain or an accutane treatment. Over at acne.org they have an acne treatment with benzoyl peroxide that you apply generously every morning and every night. They also have an extremely gentle cleanser to go along with it that. After having used it for a few months, It has done most of the work in clearing up my skin. It's been an excellent acne treatment for me, as nothing else has really worked. The key was being very consistent with it though. On the website there is a regimen and they show you step by step how to use it.  

 

As a treatment benzoyl peroxide is great and has been the bulk of my success , but I had even better results when I also took the time to figure out how to prevent acne. Better stress management has made a world of difference. I understand this isn't just something you can switch on and off, but something that usually takes quite a bit of time. Its a big factor though.

 

I also paid more attention to what was touching my face throughout the day. My hands, clothes, pillow cases, towels, sweat, dirt, ect. Now I make sure everything that touches my face is clean, and that I avoid getting my face dirty. I went and bought 5 pillow cases and I switch them out every other night (or at least when I remember too..)

 

Not sure if exercise has been a factor for acne or not, but I do go to the gym about 3-5 times during the week. I suppose it helps relieve stress which relieves acne at the very least.

 

My diet hasn't really changed a whole lot and if anything it got worse aside from me drinking more water. I eat a whole bunch of crap during the day and with the above treatments It hasn't caused me any acne. 

 

As a side note I still have a problem with razor burn and oily skin. Oily skin however can be managed by putting on a layer of milk of magnesia before moisturizing.  I only use it occasionally though. It may be for the stomach, but it works. For razor burn, I just grew a beard.

 

Honestly I can't believe I ever tried to take accutane - Its just not for minor to moderate acne. I suppose the answer to preventing possible accutane damage is finding an alternative :/



#53 Luminosity

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 06:10 AM

If you have oily skin, you don't need moisturizer.  



#54 TheBatman

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 05:49 PM

If you have oily skin, you don't need moisturizer.  

Thats what I thought originally, but my skin gets super dry after a shower followed by super oily about an hour later. If I moisturize right before it completely dries, it seems to stay alright. 



#55 Luminosity

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 06:53 AM

O.K.  

 

Sometimes over-aggressive cleansing can cause that too.  Everyone's skin is different but I like Kiss My Face plain olive oil soap, and to use green tea as a toner and fresh aloe vera gel mixed with water as a moisturizer, if needed.  I might have mentioned that.  

 

Anyway, I'm glad you found out what works for you.  Glad to see the Milk of Magnesia is helping.    



#56 TheBatman

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 03:42 AM

Thanks! And also thank you for the rests of your posts you've been very helpful. :)



#57 Luminosity

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 06:31 AM

Glad to hear it.  You've really looked into this and hopefully it will all work out.  







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