35 replies to this topic

[Even_Smarter]

I suffer from extreme day fatigue, my brother also has been diagnosed with narcolepsy. Actually amphetamines just create short term euphoria and make me foggy-brained -like I can't really focus on stuff. Actually I make more mistakes while studying than without Amph. Same with Ritalin. Modafinil seems to have a clearer effect, but still doesnt wake me up to the core.

What helps alot is megadosing Piracetam with Cholin and Fishoil. I am talking about 10-12g Piracetam, 500-700mg Cholin Bitartrate (In german called Cholinhydrogentartrat, I dont know if it is the same, but works better than this Alpha GPC and is available at the pharmacy). The cognitive/mood enhancing effect also are tremendous.

I really want to find a substance that JUST makes me awake as hell. I can't stand that feeling anymore of being tired all day, eyelids feeling heavy like stone. Adding caffeine to my stack is just WOW, but I need something else.

What substances wake you up? I really appreciate any suggestions. I thought about Sida Cordifolia, which contains Ephedrin or Norephedrin Reuptake Inhibitors like mentioned in this thread: http://www.longecity...ake-inhibitors/


Thanks for your help,
Even_Smarter

[MasterHerb]

Modafinil/Armodafinil

[TVO]

PhenylPiracetam + Oxiracetam

[1kgcoffee]

loose-leaf white tea. The theanine and caffeine create sustained focus for me. The fact that it is a hot, delicious drink are a bonus.

[Godof Smallthings]

Drink green tea or white tea with your piracetam stack. Also try adding some ginkgo biloba.

[golden1]

1g-2g aniracetam + 75-150mg caffeine every 4-5hours works very very well for me and is much more.. idk.. comfortable.. compared to modafinil which makes me feel annoyingly awake/restless.


i'd almost compare its usefulness to amphetamine but without the sidetracking strong euphoria and overfocus.

piracetam will work kind of similar, but my favorite is by far ani+caffeine.

without caffeine... idk. I haven't tried it, but http://en.wikipedia....ethylhexanamine ?

Edited by golden1, 27 September 2013 - 04:46 AM.

[deh707]

I find that 3-4g Piracetam, 200mg Phenylpiracetam, 250mg CDP-choline, 100mg Modafinil and sipping on coffee helps.

Have you tried Modafinil with your megadose Piracetam?

Edited by deh707, 27 September 2013 - 05:03 AM.

[Even_Smarter]

Phenylpiracetam seems interesting, is it something you can take longterm? Also how does it mix with Piracetam? Is it like really stimulating in terms of your fatigue is washed away?

Actually with the megadose I havent tried modafinil.

[TVO]

From what I read you can build a tolerance to Phenlypiracetam, I suggest dosing Pramiracetam daily, and when you need the extra boost use Phenlypiracetam. Definitely try modafinil though.

Edited by TVO, 27 September 2013 - 11:54 AM.

[Heh]

I suppose Cerebrolysin would work.

[Tom_]

First, what dose of Modafinil and amphetamines where you using?

Did you get the amphetamines and/or Modafinil from a dealer/online. You should be in no doubt that you were trying the real thing.

Are you having sleep attacks and/or sleep inetia? You should really have a psychiatric evaluation, bloods and a Polysomnogram + MSLT & MWT. Likely diagnoses (in order) include poor sleep hygiene/not enough sleep, Insomnia or sleep state misintepertation, Depressive disorder (most likely dysthymia), sleep related breathing or movement disorders, a Central hypersomnia or Hypothyroidism.

Edited by Tom_, 27 September 2013 - 02:05 PM.

[Andrey_81]

This is a great combo for me (and gift from nature), just be surre to take 2 pills of panax together with half capsule od rhodiola (don't take too much, less is more in case of rhodiola!!)

I take this:
PANAX
RHODIOLA

This combo is great after all day work, great before workout, gym, running or going out. My friend always asks me to give him some of my 'magic pills' before techno parties because this makes him 'high' all night and he does't need alcohol to be in a good mood

Edited by Andrey_81, 27 September 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[Even_Smarter]

Modafinil 100-200mg, but my brother also says it doesnt "really" wake him up deep inside.
I got the amphetamine sulfate prescribed and had 10mg DL-sulfate capsules from the pharmacy. This stuff is for having fun, but not to work hard.
I am pretty sure narcolepsy is in our family, I get good sleep but my head feels heavy all day and it is very hard to focus and remember/retain stuff. I have had that all my life. I could take me like 2 hours to memorise 20 vocabs. My IQ is above-average I know that from old school tests, but information often moves so slowy through my brain and it takes tremendous effort to push it. I feel like there is some key element missing like a vitamin or anything that my brain needs. Its a car without fuel.

Edit: At the same time my nervous system seem to be over stumilated, for the nerve endings on my fingertips and toes are irritated like itchy all time especially when I try to focus on stuff. My doctor said its a peripheral neuropathy. Medications like trittico, or well a huge amount of alcohol help me get rid of that. Sucks. You cant study with that..

Edited by Even_Smarter, 27 September 2013 - 03:13 PM.

[Heh]

I suppose Cerebrolysin would work.

Who voted this down? Cerebrolysin, OP, should help!

Also, have you figured out the source of your fatigue? Is it an adrenal problem (helped by pregnenolone, and vitamin B5), or something else?

Edited by Joel, 27 September 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[spookytooth]

I suppose Cerebrolysin would work.

Why would you say that? Please give an explanation.

[Tom_]

You said he was diagnosed with Narcolepsy but does he actually have it? What was his MSLT results? Early onset REM? Sleep attacks? Any cataplexy? 100-200mg is a low dose, a dose between 300-600 is typically used in narcolepsy, often split in to two doses.

Narcolepsy almost universally presents later in life, what you seem to be describing sounds like ADHD.

[Heh]

I suppose Cerebrolysin would work.

Why would you say that? Please give an explanation.

Cerebrolysin provides clean energy to some, so much so that some have problems getting to bed at night. Read through the Cerebrolysin thread.

Edited by Joel, 27 September 2013 - 04:52 PM.

[spookytooth]

I suppose Cerebrolysin would work.

Why would you say that? Please give an explanation.

Cerebrolysin provides clean energy to some, so much so that some have problems getting to bed at night. Read through the Cerebrolysin thread.

Joel, I have both read through the entire Cerebrolysin thread as well as participated in it as I am sure you have noticed

Cerebrolysin can provide some slight stimulation in the beginning but this only happens to some of the users and it fades quite quickly. In addition to this Cerebrolysin is very expensive hence using Cerebrolysin for narcolepsy (or sth similar?) would most likely be a waste of a lot of money with very little result to show for it.

Edited by spookytooth, 27 September 2013 - 05:26 PM.

[AscendantMind]

OP, I suggest you look at Lostfalco's TULIP thread. (Although as Joel said, I think it's important to know the cause of your problem first). But if your problem relates to producing energy, then rejuvenating mitochondria and building new ones should help.

Unless your problem is definitely congenital and cannot be fixed, you should look for more than a temporary band-aid to wake you up. PQQ supplementation has been known to help those with chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia. Proper forms of B vitamins help those with genetic methylation anomalies. There are many potential causes and many solutions, so I really suggest looking for a long-term fix--and I'm sure the community would be happy to offer advice for it.

[RJ23_1989]

20oz Coffee + 1 Wellbutrin (Buproprion) SR in the AM = Productive focused day

[Heh]

I suppose Cerebrolysin would work.

Why would you say that? Please give an explanation.

Cerebrolysin provides clean energy to some, so much so that some have problems getting to bed at night. Read through the Cerebrolysin thread.

Joel, I have both read through the entire Cerebrolysin thread as well as participated in it as I am sure you have noticed

Cerebrolysin can provide some slight stimulation in the beginning but this only happens to some of the users and it fades quite quickly. In addition to this Cerebrolysin is very expensive hence using Cerebrolysin for narcolepsy (or sth similar?) would most likely be a waste of a lot of money with very little result to show for it.

True, but if it weren't for the cost, then Cerebrolysin would be a whole brain solution that would kinda even things out for the OP, especially since there was an indication that Piracetam worked. I don't know about use for narcolepsy, as I was referring to the person experiencing fatigue (and cognition problems) when I recommended Cerebrolysin. I also second the use of light therapy suggested in the TULIP thread (but I believe that is also expensive), and another route that can be quickly experimented with is brainwave entrainment. From the relevant thread, it seems that some experience an energizing effect by entraining to the gamma frequency (40Hz) for 30 minutes. Brainwave entrainment is just audio, and the software is free (at least to try), so the OP could quickly test if this works.

Edited by Joel, 27 September 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

I found a combination of Selegiline and and an *afinil to work extremely well. They also both work in different ways to potentiate amphetamines, so you could try extremely small doses on top of that.

[gnappi]

My Combo is: 25mg of tianeptine + 600mg of nicotinamide = 8 hours of high focus and zero drowsiness ;^)

[JohnnyP]

No actual supplement/substance makes me feel more awake than some cardiovascular or calisthenic exercises. But if you are only interested in supplement recommendations I would recommend sulbutiamine.

Edited by JohnnyP, 28 September 2013 - 01:44 AM.

[spookytooth]

I suppose Cerebrolysin would work.

Why would you say that? Please give an explanation.

Cerebrolysin provides clean energy to some, so much so that some have problems getting to bed at night. Read through the Cerebrolysin thread.

Joel, I have both read through the entire Cerebrolysin thread as well as participated in it as I am sure you have noticed

Cerebrolysin can provide some slight stimulation in the beginning but this only happens to some of the users and it fades quite quickly. In addition to this Cerebrolysin is very expensive hence using Cerebrolysin for narcolepsy (or sth similar?) would most likely be a waste of a lot of money with very little result to show for it.

True, but if it weren't for the cost, then Cerebrolysin would be a whole brain solution that would kinda even things out for the OP, especially since there was an indication that Piracetam worked. I don't know about use for narcolepsy, as I was referring to the person experiencing fatigue (and cognition problems) when I recommended Cerebrolysin. I also second the use of light therapy suggested in the TULIP thread (but I believe that is also expensive), and another route that can be quickly experimented with is brainwave entrainment. From the relevant thread, it seems that some experience an energizing effect by entraining to the gamma frequency (40Hz) for 30 minutes. Brainwave entrainment is just audio, and the software is free (at least to try), so the OP could quickly test if this works.

Please read what the OP wrote. He is suffering frome "extreme day fatique" and a close family member (his brother) has been diagnosed with narcolepsy. He is looking for something to make him "awake as hell". Cerebrolysin doesn't fit in there. There are no studies about Cerebrolysin's effectiveness in "extreme day fatique" or narcolepsy. It just does not wake you up like stimulants do. Have you even tired Cerebrolysin?

Also why is a positive response to Piracetam an indication for a positive response to Cerebrolysin? It seems to me you're just making stuff up.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Let's stay scientific!!! or at least try to

Edited by spookytooth, 28 September 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[Tom_]

Its an awful idea, I agree spooky. Now can we move on and get some actual information, you guys are filling up my inbox! :L

[BLimitless]

You're looking for a substance but have you considered this could be a posture issue? When the lower bladder region is obstructed by tight hip flexors, meaning your belly protrudes outwards, the air circulation is cut off. This means you will operate at sub-100% air exchange and consequently you will literally be choking yourself out. The resultant experience is chronic fatigue & sleepiness and also a state of restless inner tension that seems to have no discernable source. Instantly fixed by squeezing your glutes and opening the area and taking a deep breath. This sounds very much like what is going on here.

10 breaths at 100% air flow => 10 vols in and out
10 breaths at 40% air flow => 4 vols in and out

Brain uses 20% of the body's air flux!



In the age of sitting down to use a computer all day, this phenomenon is a global pandemic! So be aware!

Edited by BLimitless, 28 September 2013 - 12:38 PM.

[gnappi]

I suppose Cerebrolysin would work.

Why would you say that? Please give an explanation.

Cerebrolysin provides clean energy to some, so much so that some have problems getting to bed at night. Read through the Cerebrolysin thread.

Joel, I have both read through the entire Cerebrolysin thread as well as participated in it as I am sure you have noticed

Cerebrolysin can provide some slight stimulation in the beginning but this only happens to some of the users and it fades quite quickly. In addition to this Cerebrolysin is very expensive hence using Cerebrolysin for narcolepsy (or sth similar?) would most likely be a waste of a lot of money with very little result to show for it.

True, but if it weren't for the cost, then Cerebrolysin would be a whole brain solution that would kinda even things out for the OP, especially since there was an indication that Piracetam worked. I don't know about use for narcolepsy, as I was referring to the person experiencing fatigue (and cognition problems) when I recommended Cerebrolysin. I also second the use of light therapy suggested in the TULIP thread (but I believe that is also expensive), and another route that can be quickly experimented with is brainwave entrainment. From the relevant thread, it seems that some experience an energizing effect by entraining to the gamma frequency (40Hz) for 30 minutes. Brainwave entrainment is just audio, and the software is free (at least to try), so the OP could quickly test if this works.

Please read what the OP wrote. He is suffering frome "extreme day fatique" and a close family member (his brother) has been diagnosed with narcolepsy. He is looking for something to make him "awake as hell". Cerebrolysin doesn't fit in there. There are no studies about Cerebrolysin's effectiveness in "extreme day fatique" or narcolepsy. It just does not wake you up like stimulants do. Have you even tired Cerebrolysin?

Also why is a positive response to Piracetam an indication for a positive response to Cerebrolysin? It seems to me you're just making stuff up.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Let's stay scientific!!! or at least try to

That's why I think my combo will be effective for him. Nicotinamide is more potent as nootropic and stimulating than piracetam. See this abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2149078 . In his case, I believe this combo (tianeptine + nicotinamide) two times per day will be sufficient.

Edited by gnappi, 28 September 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[CLR]

I hate redosing. I like to wake up and dose with a single, potent substance that can keep me going until bedtime.

In my experiences, modafinil (Provigil, Modalert), armodafinil (Nuvigil, Waklert), and lysdexamfetamine (Vyvanse), have all provided 14+ hours of smooth, non-jittery, no-crash stimulation. This is where most substances fall short (Ritalin, Ritalin-SR, Concerta, Strattera, Wellbutrin, Adderall IR, Adderall XR, Dexedrine, Desoxyn, etc). I have no comment on Selegilene's stimulant effect (I understand that an active metabolize of it is L-methamphetamine).

Edit: It really, really helps to have some L-theanine with ANY stimulant; 200 - 400 mg with any CNS/PNS makes for a smooth ride. Tyrosine and magnesium are a must for the stims that act on dopamine. Their action is two-fold: reducing tolerance and reducing neurotoxicity. This includes modafinil/armodafinil because they are mild DRIs.

Edited by CLR, 29 September 2013 - 01:02 AM.

[Esoparagon]

You're looking for a substance but have you considered this could be a posture issue? When the lower bladder region is obstructed by tight hip flexors, meaning your belly protrudes outwards, the air circulation is cut off. This means you will operate at sub-100% air exchange and consequently you will literally be choking yourself out. The resultant experience is chronic fatigue & sleepiness and also a state of restless inner tension that seems to have no discernable source. Instantly fixed by squeezing your glutes and opening the area and taking a deep breath. This sounds very much like what is going on here.

10 breaths at 100% air flow => 10 vols in and out
10 breaths at 40% air flow => 4 vols in and out

Brain uses 20% of the body's air flux!



In the age of sitting down to use a computer all day, this phenomenon is a global pandemic! So be aware!

This doesn't make sense to me. If carbon dioxide levels get too high in the blood, the medulla oblongata acts to increase the rate of breathing. If we were really low on oxygen, then that means we would be high in carbon dioxide in which case we would simply breath more until we blew off the carbon dioxide and increased oxygen saturation to the correct level. In short, it wouldn't really matter if gas exchange efficiency was sub-par due to bad posture because we'd just breath more. I could be wrong, but those are my first thoughts. Maybe it's a case of needing more oxygen than is simply normal in the blood for the brain.

Edited by Esoparagon, 30 September 2013 - 11:22 AM.