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The Falsity of Religion: 12 Indisputable Arguments


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#31 Lazarus Long

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 03:20 PM

Here is an interesting link and discussion that really belongs elsewhere but it appears the brain is hardwired to believe and this article addresses some of the evolutionary psychology and biology of that development.

The underlying studies involved in this report belong in the thread on Brains memory and behavior as well if anybody finds before I get a chance to.

http://www.guardian....1517186,00.html

Where belief is born

Scientists have begun to look in a different way at how the brain creates the convictions that mould our relationships and inform our behaviour. Alok Jha reports

Thursday June 30, 2005
The Guardian

Belief can make people do the strangest things. At one level, it provides a moral framework, sets preferences and steers relationships. On another, it can be devastating. Belief can manifest itself as prejudice or persuade someone to blow up themselves and others in the name of a political cause.

"Belief has been a most powerful component of human nature that has somewhat been neglected," says Peter Halligan, a psychologist at Cardiff University. "But it has been capitalised on by marketing agents, politics and religion for the best part of two millennia."

That is changing. Once the preserve of philosophers alone, belief is quickly becoming the subject of choice for many psychologists and neuroscientists. Their goal is to create a neurological model of how beliefs are formed, how they affect people and what can manipulate them.

And the latest steps in the research might just help to understand a little more about why the world is so fraught with political and social tension. Matthew Lieberman, a psychologist at the University of California, recently showed how beliefs help people's brains categorise others and view objects as good or bad, largely unconsciously. He demonstrated that beliefs (in this case prejudice or fear) are most likely to be learned from the prevailing culture.

When Lieberman showed a group of people photographs of expressionless black faces, he was surprised to find that the amygdala - the brain's panic button - was triggered in almost two-thirds of cases. There was no difference in the response between black and white people.

The amygdala is responsible for the body's fight or flight response, setting off a chain of biological changes that prepare the body to respond to danger well before the brain is conscious of any threat. Lieberman suggests that people are likely to pick up on stereotypes, regardless of whether their family or community agrees with them.

The work, published last month in Nature Neuroscience, is the latest in a rapidly growing field of research called "social neuroscience", a wide arena which draws together psychologists, neuroscientists and anthropologists all studying the neural basis for the social interaction between humans.

Traditionally, cognitive neuroscientists focused on scanning the brains of people doing specific tasks such as eating or listening to music, while social psychologists and social scientists concentrated on groups of people and the interactions between them. To understand how the brain makes sense of the world, it was inevitable that these two groups would have to get together.

"In the West, most of our physical needs are provided for. We have a level of luxury and civilisation that is pretty much unparalleled," says Kathleen Taylor, a neuroscientist at Oxford University. "That leaves us with a lot more leisure and more space in our heads for thinking."

Beliefs and ideas therefore become our currency, says Taylor. Society is no longer a question of simple survival; it is about choice of companions and views, pressures, ideas, options and preferences.

"It is quite an exciting development but for people outside the field, a very obvious one," says Halligan.

Understanding belief is not a trivial task, even for the seemingly simplest of human interactions. Take a conversation between two people. When one talks, the other's brain is processing information through their auditory system at a phenomenal rate. That person's beliefs act as filters for the deluge of sensory information and guide the brain's response.

Lieberman's recent work echoed parts of earlier research by Joel Winston of the University of London's Wellcome Department of Imaging Neuroscience. Winston found that when he presented people with pictures of faces and asked them to rate the trustworthiness of each, the amygdalas showed a greater response to pictures of people who were specifically chosen to represent untrustworthiness. And it did not matter what each person actually said about the pictured faces.

"Even people who believe to their core that they do not have prejudices may still have negative associations that are not conscious," says Lieberman.

Beliefs also provide stability. When a new piece of sensory information comes in, it is assessed against these knowledge units before the brain works out whether or not it should be incorporated. People do it when they test the credibility of a politician or hear about a paranormal event.

Physically speaking, then, how does a belief exist in the brain? "My own position is to think of beliefs and memories as very similar," says Taylor. Memories are formed in the brain as networks of neurons that fire when stimulated by an event. The more times the network is employed, the more it fires and the stronger the memory becomes.

Halligan says that belief takes the concept of memory a step further. "A belief is a mental architecture of how we interpret the world," he says. "We have lots of fluid things moving by - perceptions and so forth - but at the level of who our friends are and so on, those things are consolidated in crystallised knowledge units. If we did not have those, every time we woke up, how would we know who we are?"

These knowledge units help to assess threats - via the amygdala - based on experience. Ralph Adolphs, a neurologist at the University of Iowa, found that if the amygdala was damaged, the ability of a person to recognise expressions of fear was impaired. A separate study by Adolphs with Simon Baron-Cohen at Cambridge University showed that amygdala damage had a bigger negative impact on the brain's ability to recognise social emotions, while more basic emotions seemed unaffected.

This work on the amygdala shows it is a key part of the threat-assessment response and, in no small part, in the formation of beliefs. Damage to this alarm bell - and subsequent inability to judge when a situation might be dangerous - can be life-threatening. In hunter-gatherer days, beliefs may have been fundamental to human survival.

Neuroscientists have long looked at brains that do not function properly to understand how healthy ones work. Researchers of belief formation do the same thing, albeit with a twist. "You look at people who have delusions," says Halligan. "The assumption is that a delusion is a false belief. That is saying that the content of it is wrong, but it still has the construct of a belief."

In people suffering from prosopagnosia, for example, parts of the brain are damaged so that the person can no longer recognise faces. In the Cotard delusion, people believe they are dead. Fregoli delusion is the belief that the sufferer is constantly being followed around by people in disguise. Capgras' delusion, named after its discoverer, the French psychiatrist Jean Marie Joseph Capgras, is a belief that someone emotionally close has been replaced by an identical impostor.

Until recently, these conditions were regarded as psychiatric problems. But closer study reveals that, in the case of Capgras' delusion for example, a significant proportion of sufferers had lesions in their brain, typically in the right hemisphere.

"There are studies indicating that some people who have suffered brain damage retain some of their religious or political beliefs," says Halligan. "That's interesting because whatever beliefs are, they must be held in memory."

Another route to understanding how beliefs form is to look at how they can be manipulated. In her book on the history of brainwashing, Taylor describes how everyone from the Chinese thought reform camps of the last century to religious cults have used systematic methods to persuade people to change their ideas, sometimes radically.


The first step is to isolate a person and control what information they receive. Their former beliefs need to be challenged by creating uncertainty. New messages need to be repeated endlessly. And the whole thing needs to be done in a pressured, emotional environment.

"Beliefs are mental objects in the sense that they are embedded in the brain," says Taylor. "If you challenge them by contradiction, or just by cutting them off from the stimuli that make you think about them, then they are going to weaken slightly. If that is combined with very strong reinforcement of new beliefs, then you're going to get a shift in emphasis from one to the other."

The mechanism Taylor describes is similar to the way the brain learns normally. In brainwashing though, the new beliefs are inserted through a much more intensified version of that process.

This manipulation of belief happens every day. Politics is a fertile arena, especially in times of anxiety.

"Stress affects the brain such that it makes people more likely to fall back on things they know well - stereotypes and simple ways of thinking," says Taylor.

********

This method of association uses the brain against itself. If an event stimulates two sets of neurons, then the links between them get stronger. If one of them activates, it is more likely that the second set will also fire. In the real world, those two memories may have little to do with each other, but in the brain, they get associated.

*******

It is unlikely that beliefs as wide-ranging as justice, religion, prejudice or politics are simply waiting to be found in the brain as discrete networks of neurons, each encoding for something different. "There's probably a whole combination of things that go together," says Halligan.

And depending on the level of significance of a belief, there could be several networks at play. Someone with strong religious beliefs, for example, might find that they are more emotionally drawn into certain discussions because they have a large number of neural networks feeding into that belief.

"If you happen to have a predisposition, racism for example, then it may be that you see things in a certain way and you will explain it in a certain way," says Halligan.

He argues that the reductionist approach of social neuroscience will alter the way people study society. "If you are brain scanning, what are the implications for privacy in terms of knowing another's thoughts? And being able to use those, as some governments are implying, in terms of being able to detect terrorists and things like that," he says. "If you move down the line in terms of potential uses for these things, you have potential uses for education and for treatments being used as cognitive enhancers."

So far, social neuroscience has provided more questions than answers. Ralph Adolphs of the University of Iowa looked to the future in a review paper for Nature. "How can causal networks explain the many correlations between brain and behaviour that we are discovering? Can large-scale social behaviour, as studied by political science and economics, be understood by studying social cognition in individual subjects? Finally, what power will insights from cognitive neuroscience give us to influence social behaviour, and hence society? And to what extent would such pursuit be morally defensible?"

The answers to those questions may well shape people's understanding of what it really means to believe.

{excerpts}



#32 lemon

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 12:19 AM

I said Invisible Pink Unicorns on Pluto !![U][I]

Do I have to spell this out for you folks?

Unicorns are mythical creatures (no-one has verified such creatures). They are invisible, yet we have faith they are pink.

They live on Pluto, so we can't find the invisible things....

Gez !

Do you get the correlation to a god construct? (or do I have to spell that out for you to?)

[tung]

#33 jaydfox

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Posted 04 July 2005 - 12:43 AM

While I still have to disagree with the claim that the invisible pink unicorns on Pluto are in the same realm of plausibility as Christianity, I do have news to report. Since this was the thread in which I displayed some of my greatest doubs, I suppose it's fair that I mention this here.

It's an interesting process, really, extricating one's self from a religion such as Christianity. Mine is an interesting journey, in that I knew going in how hypocritical and irrational I was being, but in a way I felt that course justified. For me, faith became an acceptance of something irrational based on one's feelings of truth, because to accept something rational would show not faith, merely the capacity to realize that it's rational. While having the capacity to realize just how rational certain religions are is something that many lack, and something that I admire, I still felt that it wasn't enough, that my faith would be defined by accepting something irrational and then putting it to the test. Perhaps due to chance and coincidence, or perhaps just to the blindness of optimism, my religion passed those tests, moving in my mind from irrational to rational. Thus my faith seemed vindicated.

I joined my religion 10 years ago this July, knowing that today's science barely scratches the surface of what knowledge is possible to gain about the workings of life and the universe. I felt and honestly believed that science and religion would grow together some day, perhaps before the end of the 21st century.

Faith is to "hope for things which are not seen, which are true". It's the ultimate weapon of religion, to have something that can not be disproven, and knowing this I nonetheless forged ahead in my journey from atheism/agnosticism to Christianity. I believed, or at the least wanted to believe, that I had a soul that was eternal, without end and possibly without beginning. The religion I joined, for all the shit it's taken over the last 180 years, is in my mind the most rational and forward-thinking of the Christian sects, and even while it is the most forward-thinking, it also has the strongest ties to Christianity's founding, and hence answers the seeming paradox of an unchanging God and a religion that increasingly has been catering to the social movements of the times.

However, as much as I wanted to believe, and I conditioned myself to believe, doubts remained. At first, I thought they were a sign of weakness, a sign that I lacked faith, that I was not worthy of those things I sought. I "knew" that other religions were not the true religion, and that people believed in them because they were conditioned to, by culture and family, and were essentially brainwashed into believing them. I knew that religiosity was quite possibly a genetic and socially-engrained trait, and I knew that people had difficulty leaving a religion they started to doubt, for fear of damnation. So it was with a great deal of hypocrisy that I tried to ignore the fact that, on face value, I was in the same situation.

Somehow, over the years I conditioned myself to ignore the doubts, while at the same time seeing the hypocrisy of most atheists (if you're an atheist, don't take this as a personal jab at any of you, for the very fact that you're here means you're not like "most atheists"), so that I found myself entrenched in my views. Upon discovering the Immortality Institute, I found myself questioning once again, as I used to in my youth, and I liked it. I was torn, conflicted internally. I remembered my old ways, my old thoughts, and I embraced them, but so long had I been defending my religion and stitching it together with science, that at first I didn't see an conflict between my religion and the new science and philosophy I was embracing. I read of nanobots and proposals to replace out entire circulatory system with an artificial one, to effectively increase nutrient and gas circulation and perfusion, and to eliminate the chance of microbes infecting our bloodstream. This might offend most religions, but it actually fits right in with mine, for it was foretold over a century ago that when Christ came again, our bodies would be perfected, and part of that process would involve replacing our blood with a purer substance. In this context of perfecting our bodies, transhumanism fit right in.

It is foretold by most or all Christian religions that the last days would see signs and wars, and my introduction to the Singularity fit in with my own internal estimate for Christ's return, about 20-40 years hence. Increasing global uncertainty, terrorism, nuclear proliferation, pandemics, etc., and then throw in the complete unpredictability of the world in the years or even months after the Singularity, and that seemed to spell the kind of rapidly-changing world in which most people's view of the world would be shattered, in which the return of a Messiah would not seem terribly far-fetched.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that for the first six months or so, my involvement in the Immortality Institute actually strengthened my faith. But at the same time, the seeds of doubt were sown.

The biggest crack in the foundation of my faith came with the questions of free will and identity. The more I considered the problem, the more I remained convinced that there is a unique part of us that is uniquely attached to us, that is not merely informational in nature. Build a copy, and it would be just that, a copy, a distinct person, a person to whom your flow of experience would not suddenly "jump". Of course, while this might be the part of me that is drawn to religion (for I realize that studies have proven that religiosity is at least partially genetic and hence is a neurological/psychological state), I don't think one needs to be religious to hold this view, or conversely, that an atheist necessarily has to hold the opposite view.

However, getting back to free will, I began to see more and more hypocrisy in myself for not letting myself question my faith, question the nature of God and man and free will. And once I started allowing myself to really question these things, I began acting like the budding scientist I was at age 16 or 17. I'm not the next Einstein or Feynman, but I nonetheless felt I had much, and may yet have much, to contribute to science. But for all those years, I had turned off certain parts of my rational thought process, and it tainted me.

Once I started questioning things, my mind moved swiftly, for ten years' worth of doubts and thoughts and belief constructs fell apart and fell back together. In the space of perhaps two or three months, but especially in the two weeks after my last post in this thread (the one dated June 7, 2005), I struggled and succeeded in facing my doubts and recognizing them for what they were, my old self trying to free itself from the shackles of ten years of self-imposed restrictions on thought.

Over the next few months, you may notice that I will rant more, and be a little more aggressive, emotional, etc. For the Full Members, see my rants in the discussion on Vegetarianism.

In other words, I'm going to be a bad arguer, an irrational dolt. I apologize in advance. Apparently, extricating one's self from religion is easier said than done. Like the battered woman who leaves her abusive boyfriend, only to find herself longing to be back in his arms, I find myself having weird emotions and barriers. I don't know how healthy it is, but I suppose it's just human nature: I'm breaking many of the rules I previously disagreed with personally, such as the restrictions on coffee, tea, alcohol, R-rated movies, swearing, etc. It's funny, because I was watching part of The Exorcist the other day, and there's a part where the girl shoves a cross into her crotch (apprently far enough to make herself bleed) and yells "Fuck me, Jesus!", and even though I have turned my back on Christianity, I was still offended and felt unclean and felt like I was offending God and would be punished. After the revulsion passed, I watched the scene again, just to desensitize myself.

I realize that I stand a big chance of getting into self-destructive behavior, but I think it's just part of me testing the waters, breaking each rule in turn so that I no longer feel bound by it. I might say that I'm not bound by my old religion not to drink, but until I actually have a drink, part of me will still feel bound by the old rule. And so on for the other rules. If it's something I always wanted to do, I'll eventually do it. I've never wanted to smoke, so I won't break that rule now that I can. But I've wanted to drink, be it wine or beer or coffee or green tea, and I've wanted to watch R-rated movies, so I'm doing some of those things now.

My friends, I hope you will all bear with me as I attempt to pull my self out of this. Remember how Elizabeth Smart, kidnapped and raped and held hostage for almost a year, tried to defend her captors at first? I feel like I'm still in that stage, like a hostage who still feels compassion for his captors.

And for my Christian and other religious friends, who might view my turning my back on religion as a negative thing, I hope you'll still consider me a friend or at least a good resource here at ImmInst. I've tried to never be judgmental of others for their religion (or lack thereof). I've never been a real missionary. I don't try to proselyte my church, even though it is a church that considers every member a missionary. And I won't try to proselyte atheism. While I do consider certain organized religions to be worth fighting against, it's not the religion nor its followers, but the hypocrites at the helm and their influence on politics, that I would fight against. I would fight against Christianity if it tried to ban medical procedures that would extend life, if it were doing so because it thought longer lifespans were unnatural and against God's will. However, I can at least respect Christianity's fight against stem cell research when the concern is that women will intentionally have their eggs fertilized for the sole purpose of being destroyed. I think they're wrong about when the "soul" enters the embryo, but I admit that they could be right, so I respect them for that. But I draw the line at dictating to adults what they can and can't do with their own lives, including extending them.

#34 lemon

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Posted 04 July 2005 - 01:15 AM

...come on, take the green tea - drink it!

MUWAHAHA!!!!

#35 signifier

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 05:03 PM

You are right, Jayd, in acknowledging that people in ancient times knew less about the world. Heck, they knew nothing. If I were 1% as stupid as those people were back then, it's very likely that if I saw a city being engulfed by burning bits of rock falling from the sky that I would say "God is punishing them!" instead of "Dang, volcano."

#36 cyric

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 06:17 AM

If you ahve PROOF that God DOESN"T EXIST, then go ahead, if you have PROOF the God DOES EXIST, then ditto. This isn't a thread on psychological evolution.

No weak attempts to convince others of your "reasons" for a nonexistant/existing god, you need IRREFUTALBLE PROOF! Or you could just state your OPINION (doesn't necessarily make it true).

#37 DJS

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 06:30 AM

In order for one to answer your question cyric, you must first supply us with your definition of what "God" is.

Is God a man?

Is God a "force"?

Is God an equation?

Everyone's conception of God is different and that is part of the problem.




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