5 replies to this topic

[protoject]

Hey guys,
so first of all, I wanted to say, that I've tried Amisulpride in the past for dysthymia, and it had no beneficial effect.

Also, I've tried amphetamines for ADHD. Unfortunately what they tend to do at this point is make me more stimulated but not more focused. It seems to even worsen OCD type symptoms and anxiety.

Now. I had this idea that perhaps if I took both at the same time, perhaps amisulpride would block the d2 and d3 receptors from being stimulated by the Amphetamine, which might account for the bad side effects, and that the D1 receptors, account for the good effects, would be stimulated by the amp.

Now, I know this is very simplistic , because in fact some people probably get good effects from d2 and d3 stimulation. Also D1 stimulation could actually hold problems for certain populations.

But I want to experiment. Before jumping into the water I just want to know if anyone has had similar experiences that I initially mentioned and has experience with trying both at the same time.

Also was wondering if anyone had knowledge on the pharmacology and biochemistry of this. For example does amisulpride block those d2 and d3 receptors strongly enough so that amphetamine wouldn't stimulate them? And what dosage would you need to take in order to do that? Amisulpride also blocks d1 receptors at a certain dose, so if you took Amphetamine with it , does amphetamine have a higher affinity for certain receptors over others?

And mostly i'm talking about dextroamphetamine here since that's what I'll be experimenting with.

Thanks in advance!

-Protoject

[lourdaud]

How about just experimenting with it at the typical doses used for schizophrenia etc until you find your sweet spot? Interested in hearing your results!

[protoject]

day 1 Amisulpride and Vyvanse
(60 mg , split in two doses 3 hours apart, and 225 mg amisulpride split up into 2 doses)
it made me stimulated but not focused.
Most of the day I was fine,
I had a few times where I felt crappy/ crashy but these were only small dips
"overcame" some social anxiety situation with Roomate and told her some of my life troubles. (well, overcame is an overstatement, I was moreso compelled and talking came easier).
Each time I've felt compelled to talk somewhat excessively to a bunch of people that I never talk to much, and spoke more to others.


By the end of the day I felt "better", like, kinda back to my old emotions or something (like how I used to feel when i was younger), i felt some sense of serenity. Then I couldn't sleep at all and had to take 4 sleeping drugs to sleep for 6 hours.

Was it worth it?? ... hmm well, i don't know.

But I will say for the record that although my original intention was to block d2 and d3 while activating d1, I think with this lower dose I probably rather activated d2 and d3 more than usual. I think also my intention was to see if taking both would remove the anxiety of the vyvanse.

It's important to note though that I've taken vyvanse with (friend) before, I think maybe 50 mg and found it quite anxiogenic and overwhelming. Of course this is when I had worse sleep on the regular. Also I've taken 15-30mg before work these days, a couple times, on its own, and I'm not sure I noticed any therapeutic or any effect whatsoever, except anxiety.

But yeah anyway, my day isn't over today (my 3rd non-consecutive day of doing it) but so far Day 1 took the cake in terms of Feel Good effects at the end of the day. Not only did i feel good but also I found myself doing a lot of research and kind of able to bounce between many ideas at once. It's as if the scope of my mental vision had kind of widened, and I was able to persist with my reading and researching and maintain some sort of motivation. I would read one thing and it would somewhat excite my mind in a way that was somewhat rewarding (usually I'm dysthymic and don't experience much reward). Once this reward came it made me want to do more. This effect does not happen on amisulpride alone.

Day 2
125 amisulpride and 30 mg vyvanse
Nothing to note really. Nothing much happened besides some side effects like fatigue. Had a bit of sleeping trouble which had to be remedied by other drugs.

Day 3
400 mg Amisulpride and 60 mg vyvanse
Mostly everything from day 1, except the whole first part of the day was better (in that I didn't really have any negative mood dips or worsened anxiety) and the whole last part of the day so far has been uneventful otherwise (no widened mental scope, no particular reward from doing things). I feel alright I guess. I feel as if I get muscle aches from the amisulpride. I did feel somewhat burnt out for a little while towards the end, though I'm feeling okay now. One major issue I had which I'm not sure was related or not, but I think it was, is that I had to take this massive piss and when I did, my muscle that squeezes piss out got tired and cramped up and I thought something was wrong. It's fine now though.

In conclusion I'm considering that it may be pertinent to try a lower dose of amisulpride with that 60 mg dose of vyvanse. I believe this would strengthen the robustness of d2 and d3 stimulation. Other than that it may be pertinent to try a higher dose of amisulpride with that high dose of vyvanse, as I may not have been blocking d2 and d3 strongly enough for the D1 stimulation idea.

I also must try vyvanse 60 mg alone to see if it's a different experience without amilsulpride, and perhaps try a high dose of amisulpride by itself though I believe that won't be pleasant...

update: the day after Day 3 (not day 4 though), I had a lot of motivation and multitasking abilities, ability to plan and organize to do things as well as get motivated to do them. This was somewhat in line with the tail end of day 1 effects. It's odd how these effects culminated so long after dosing.

Day 4: Tried 30 mg alone, with a large glass of water around noon. Felt pretty much overstimulated the whole day and It's 2 days later and I still don't really feel back to normal. Have been getting insomnia and anxiety the past few days, bordering on psychotic symptoms at times.

That's all a bit confusing, will update if I experiment further.
Conclusion so far: It seems Amisulpride might block some negative effects of Vyvanse, considering that I got a much worse effect on the 30 mg without amisulpride than I did on 60 mg with amisulpride.

Side note: I currently take Trazodone and Pregabalin for sleep, it works most of the time.

Also I did these experiments maybe once a week or less, so there were several days between dosing.

Edited by protoject, 07 November 2013 - 09:19 PM.

[Tom_]

How about we look at the clinical neuropharmacology here.

D2 is an important target for ADHD treatment, D3 not so much. At dosing of under 200 and maybe up to 400 amisulpride is selective for autoreceptors and is increasing activity at D2 and 3 - which will downregulate them and by extention downregulate d1. You increase it beyond that and suddenly typical antipsychotic side effects. Its also a 5ht7 antagonist and a GHB agonist and while we all suspect we know roughly whats going on there honestly, know body has a clue. Well...its going to be a stimulating combo and its certainly going to add to that all vital pre-frontal dopamine increase people seem obsessed with but is it actually going to treat the symptoms (based on the fact response in ADHD is on a U shaped curve - either a very small increase or a very large increase in dopamine is what you are looking for. Its 5ht2b receptor antagonism isn't exactly welcome for ADHD management but useful for depression.

You said dythemia and ADHD which makes me suspicious. Could it be depressive symptoms with some of them masquerading as ADHD (statistically the most likely), could it be ADHD with mood instability, maybe ADHD and then later related development of depression or could it be co-existing disorders completely separate from each other? (hint its not the last one). If so an entirely different approach might be needed.

Try a very low dose of both drugs and see what happens and not just for a week but for four weeks. If that doesn't work increase the dose of amisupride to 400mg (which I'm sure you won't want to do) and see if your original plan works - for four weeks. Then increase amfetamine to 40-60mg.

Personally if you are sure (clinical diagnosis not self) you suffer both disorders then I'd prefer to see you on an antidepressant and a trial of a non-stimulant ADHD med. Atomoxetine and Bupropion, Trazadone (200mg +), SSRI, SNRI, Mirtazapine, Moclobremide or even a lower dose of a noradrengergic TCA. Alongside behavioual and cognitive or psychological interventions.

Edited by Tom_, 09 November 2013 - 03:47 AM.

[protoject]

Agreed about taking an antidepressant, most make me feel like shit but I've been taking trazodone nightly which seems to be fine, at times if i hit the 200 mg dose it seems like it does help to improve some symptoms, yet some other side effects arise as well so I am slowly tapering up and hopefully going to be able to get that therepeutic effect without the other bad stuff that goes along with it......

[mrd1]

Feeling like shit when first taking a antidepressant is normal. I would follow the label for atleast 6-8 weeks every single night before giving up on it. This amisulpride is pretty interesting especially its affinity for the GHB receptor

Why not Trazadone, amphetamine, and amisulpride?

Perhaps the trazadone over the long term will keep the ocd at bay allowing you to keep the amphetamine tolerable and the amisulpride to keep the dosage of amphetamine minimal?

Note, I am not familiar with amisulpride and I do not know if this is a unsafe combo.