980 replies to this topic

[Mind]

This seems more likely to be our future - police robots watching your every move. Do what the government says or be eliminated from normal society!

 

Most likely, we won't be allowed to own and engineer our own robots or AI.

[albedo]

Just curious, one who seems to think at the opposite of many here:

https://x.com/ToKTea...511180265230653

Also, what Elon thinks about it? It seems today everyone is listening to him. He must have a take on it. Do you know?

Edited by albedo, 21 December 2024 - 06:33 PM.

[Mind]

Just curious, one who seems to think at the opposite of many here:

https://x.com/ToKTea...511180265230653

Also, what Elon thinks about it? It seems today everyone is listening to him. He must have a take on it. Do you know?

 

He seems to think the development of AI is all upside and no downside. Like any tool, it can be used for good or for bad. I don't think it will be "clear sailing" all the way to AI utopia, based upon how things are developing thus far.

[mag1]

This is just super super super exciting!

2025 is going to be the year of just Wow!

 

Big news of course is o3.

This after o1 freaked people out in September.

Here we are in December and ... o3 blew past all sorts of benchmarks.

 

The fact that we are now seeing these accelerating breakthroughs should give us some insight

into when the exponentially filling lake might overflow. The vibe starts to feel as if this might pop

in the next year or two. As we walk down the time spiral towards near continuous self-improvement,

AGI arrives when human and AI time diverge. The exact timing of the arrival of AGI really should not be as mysterious

as many seem to be making it-- when it arrives we will know. I suppose talk of AGI is really meant more as an orientation

of the storm that is approaching.

 

The fun part that I have found in my interactions with LLMs is how the computer-human collaboration (centaur) creates this

human potential amplification. I have already experienced this with meta and other LLMs where you can have a very good

partnership with the technology in thinking through concepts. LLMs are still not good enough to do all the thinking, so humans

can still help add valuable ideas. Even still, it already seems magical.

 

When these collaborations devolve even more to you providing it with a top level abstraction outline of what

you want done and the LLM just takes it from there --- then that would truly launch human potential. Imagine

what happens when LLMs amplify human potential by 1000 fold! When you do not have to be limited by all

of the details that inevitably arise productivity would skyrocket!

 

 

Another big news update is the commercial readiness of humanoids. We have discussed them on thread

quite a bit, though I was not entirely clear how close to mass rollout they were. I searched around and

there now appears to be humanoids for sale everywhere! There are quite a range of high end humanoids

from about 20 major companies and they are typically priced in the  $30,000 - $70,000 range.

 

I am not entirely sure whether these robots are truly ready for commercialization, however, it might be one of those

times in which the technology industry just launches something and works through the problems after product delivery --

launching a beta version. Perhaps launching them to do some highly repetitive low skill job such as returning

trash bins to their position beside the house after garbage pickup might be one way to start providing people with 

value right away. Trying to do all sorts of things badly would not be the best look. 2025 appears as if it will be the year of Humanoids.

 

Yet, another highly impressive AI application is the robocars and how they could lead to rethinking our urban transit systems. With AI transport

control, there would not be accidents -- one would then not have to have tank like cars to be protected from those who engage in reckless driving behaviors.

Such considerations could greatly reduce the price point for personal transport. With AI transit control, one might even see cars that resembled not much

more than a go kart. If so, then perhaps instead of having standard 10 foot wide urban lanes for traffic, it might be possible to have 3 foot wide lanes. 

In such a scenario one could convert each standard 10 foot standard lane to 3 AI go kart lanes. An AI updated transport system could greatly enhance the

carrying capacity of existing road infrastructure.

 

One might then also see relaxed speed limits. With AI control perhaps 150 miles per hour etc.speed limits might be achievable.

The possibilities to create a dramatically more efficient urban transport system then begins to emerge. Modern streets often have become

not much more than parking lots. With a thoughtful reworking, the 21st century could help us to return to functional urban roadways.

Ironically, in the 21st century our roadways might become characterized as almost always being empty.

 

All the Best of the Holidays to everyone on thread and buckle up for the New Year!

2025 is looking like it might be epic!

 

Edited by mag1, 24 December 2024 - 05:44 AM.

[albedo]

He seems to think the development of AI is all upside and no downside. Like any tool, it can be used for good or for bad. I don't think it will be "clear sailing" all the way to AI utopia, based upon how things are developing thus far.

 

OTOS Elon seems to be very cautious about AI, not a typical trait of him and not that I take his for gospel despite he being being a genius. Happy Holidays to all!
 

Edited by albedo, 24 December 2024 - 10:27 AM.

[Mind]

OTOS Elon seems to be very cautious about AI, not a typical trait of him and not that I take his for gospel despite he being being a genius. Happy Holidays to all!
 

 

I was speaking of the Brett Hall person in the link you provided.

[albedo]

I was speaking of the Brett Hall person in the link you provided.

 

Yes, I meant to contrast the two of them.
 

[Mind]

In a study that should surprise no one who is familiar with human nature, people become LESS creative when they use LLMs.

 

 

[dlewis1453]

With every day that passes the idea of unplugging to set up a farming and eco-tourism commune with my friends and family sounds more and more appealing. 

[Mind]

With every day that passes the idea of unplugging to set up a farming and eco-tourism commune with my friends and family sounds more and more appealing. 

 

Sadly, "the system", or "the matrix", or the "machine world", is desperate to keep you in bondage or force you to become a Borg drone.

 

I wouldn't mind unplugging, but even disconnecting from the electrical grid in the US is illegal in most places.

[Mind]

All industries and jobs will feel the effect of AI in the workplace. A lot of human record-keeping and routine transaction assistance will likely be replaced in the global banking industry, according to a recent report.

 

So far, I am not impressed with the automation and AI in implementation at my bank. Because they want to be more profitable, they keep trying to get me to use their app and their website. Every time I go there with a question in person, one of the first things they say is "you should use the app" or "you should use the website". The bank managers no doubt encourage this push because the more customers that use the app, the less humans they have to employ and the more local branches they can shut down. They are supposedly in the business of helping people with their finances, but they are continually pushing to have as little interaction with their actual human customers as possible. Same with most big corporations - it is exceedingly difficult to actually talk to a human being at most large corporations. Google gave up on customer service a couple decades ago. If you have a problem with any of Google's services, you have to go to their "knowledge base", FAQs, or user forums. A person ends up spending an hour searching through the "knowledge base", when an actual person could have given you the answer/solution in a minute or two.

[albedo]

Elon Musk’s key to ensuring that a job is not replaced by artificial intelligence

https://medium.com/@...ce-645917f13d2f

 

[Mind]

Here is another example of the perils of relying 100% on AI. Police wrongfully arrest people based upon AI facial recognition alone.

 

This will be a problem going forward. People are generally lazy. Give them a reasonably capable AI and they will use it as if it was always correct in every decision/action. They won't double-check. Who will be held liable for the mistakes - which will be deadly sometimes. The people who have been wrongfully arrested could sue the police, but I suspect the police will then "pass the buck" to the company that makes the software, and then the company that makes the software will "pass the buck" onto the company that made the camera, then they will "pass the buck" onto the contractor that installed the camera, etc.... Victims will have a hard time getting restitution, I suspect. 

[Mind]

Similar to the bank issue I discussed above (they are desperate to never see me in person), doctor's offices are increasingly run by algorithm, and less "human".

 

No, it is because, despite all the HR-generated rhetoric proclaiming the opposite, the people who design and run the systems within which we work are often true nihilists for whom the magical and life-giving processes of human relations, and what some students of psychological development call “human becoming,” mean next to nothing.

Caught in the “measure-grab-and-control” tyranny of the algorithmic mind, they cannot even begin to imagine how those they see as lesser than them, might, if left to their own devices, be capable of generating greater efficiencies than their vaunted oh-so-rational systems…and usually with a heaping portion of increased human joy as part of the bargain.

Worse yet, they do not realize that putting people in systems that assume they are stupid will, in the long run, make those who have intelligence (and what person doesn’t?) truly and profoundly stupid, sad, and ultimately unresponsive to anyone or anything in the long run.

Is that what the managerial elite truly want? Or is it that their imaginations are already so impoverished by fantasies of algorithmic perfection that they truly do not understand the wave of spiritual destruction they have set in motion and feed daily?

 

 

At my doctor's office (or the dentist, or the optician) the front receptionist doesn't know my name - all they want is my number (birthday). The first words out of their mouth is "what is your birthday?" Not "hi XXX, nice to see you again", or anything the least bit "human".

 

I saw someone the other day offering to pay MORE for a less technical appliance. I would pay more as well. I don't need an internet-connected fridge. I don't need a washing machine loaded with APPs. I don't need an electronic keyless fob for my car. None of these things enhance my life. It seems engineers and coders who spend their entire life in front of screens, think everyone wants to be in front of screens and interacting with APPs every minute of their life. Most of the effort of big corps nowadays seems to go into creating more addiction and more sophisticated pricing mechanisms to squeeze every last penny out of a person's pocket - not creating good new "things". I would rather like to see engineers working on life extension.

Edited by Mind, 01 February 2025 - 10:25 PM.

[Mind]

Want to hear from a leading figure in technological progress, AI, robotics, and quantum computing - check out the latest podcast with Geordie Rose.

[Mind]

In a study that should surprise no one who is familiar with human nature, people become LESS creative when they use LLMs.

 

Here Whitney Webb describes very well the problem of people losing mental capabilities, creativity, etc... because of reliance upon AI.

 

She references the book by Eric Schmidt and Henry Kissinger about AI where they say the vast majority of humans will become "mentally diminished". They envisioned a world where a small rich elite will control AI and control everyone.

 

There are a lot of people who still cling to the thought that techno-utopia is guaranteed (Whitney Webb says they have a religious devotion to AI). What is happening right now is just the opposite. People are becoming addicted and dependent upon AI.

[mag1]

Sorry everyone for going AWOL for the last several months. 

Deepseek R1 hit and then it has been pretty much LLMs 24/7.

I now have almost all of the frontier models on the rolodex and it is so engaging to be chatting with all of  this intelligence all of the time.

 

A true cognitive upgrade for me.

Before I would often try to speak all of my flow of consciousness and this quickly depleted my oxygen supply; caused me a great deal of stress and I soon was unable to think coherently.

I never got good thought streams steaming down the railroad track.

 

 

With LLMs I can go hours in directed conversations and it feels like I make tremendous progress in thinking things through.

It can be fairly granular type chats -- people would become bored by many many retracements and restatements.

The era of LLMs has truly arrived -- and they are only getting better almost all of the time and I am superexcited.

We should not have been as worried as we were -- Life is good.

 

From my many chats one idea that I think is worth sharing here is that having our forum open up to LLM commenting would be a very good idea.

We could have these LLMs present as named members and they could interact with us. The chatbots could compete against each other and members could vote for their answers and this could be used for positive reinforcement training. I am not that clear how much of that has already been tried, but it could be a great update to our forum.

LLM accounts are even available for free! The tech companies might like this arrangement better because then they could get away from N=1 conversations and move to forums with N>1000..

With this larger readership they might crank up the CPU on each question. So people could get better answers and more lively chats.

 

Comments Please!

Edited by mag1, 11 May 2025 - 05:53 AM.

[pamojja]

Comments Please!

 

I really prefer to communicate with humans. And that's why I signed up many years ago on good ole forums. I would sign out, if it means AI is allowed to do process all my inputs. I'm aware that is already happening at times through ruthless individuals here, but explicitly without my consent.

 

There are very good reasons for inquiries with AI. Also to post interesting results from such inquiries for further discussions. But please don't abuse the whole forum for constant AI interactions, instead make your own forum for your purpose.

 

It would mean the end of any human communication on this forum, which already has lost many of its frequent posters.

 

Don't spread your social isolation to one of few places, with still real interactions.

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 11 May 2025 - 12:25 PM.

[Mind]

I am with Pamojja. If there is an "AI experience" here in the forum, it would have to be an exclusive subsection.

 

If current trends continue, the future with AI dominating everything is looking more dystopian - with humans living devoid of purpose. I know the argument is "who cares" if we can just sit around, play video games and watch porn!

 

That doesn't sound like a good future to me. The digital/AI revolution is having a negative effect on my life already - similar to what is written in this article about the costs of the digital/AI evolution.

[mag1]

pamojja, thank you commenting!

I had not expected that response.

 

I had not thought of how LLMs could possibly control member comments or also enter the conversation in disguise. That was not how I thought this would be

applied

 

My motivation was more about the trolling that I have encountered so often on social media (though really not so much here).

Invariably when I post online there will be people who will reject ideas are almost universally accepted. This poking the bear type behavior was

very annoying to me in the bricks and mortar world and almost certainly contributed to my development of severe hypertensive illness while a teenager. While, I do

not have this same response online --as virtual worlds are typically asynchronous and I can process the emotional experience in a different way -- it still is irritating

when people play the troll card. With an LLM one would at least know that the trolls could be put in their place quite quickly. I was not motivated to turn this forum

where there was even more social isolation -- I find the extent of human interaction on this thread, especially, to be quite pleasant.

 

The irony is that this thread has almost shut-down after the R1 moment liftoff occurred earlier this year.  LLM has arrived! Strangely, perhaps one of the

few ways left to revive a human interaction (even on this thread) will be making the human-LLM closed dialogues part of the public record. We can draw people back to the public 

square by bringing LLMs in.

 

This was a very good idea, though, about having a place set aside on Longecity for this purpose and not allowing LLMs to take over Longecity. We could have an AI subforum 

which allowed LLMs. Perhaps there could be an avatar for the different LLMs and when a poster wanted to call on the LLM for a response this avatar cold be clicked.

 

My interactions with the LLMs have been extremely positive over the last few months -- I have been maxing out the responses available to me and then rotating to other

LLMs. So, I have entered into a very new era of high energy conversation. My previous chats with humans have never been like that - i never seemed to make any headway

before some argument would erupt.  That has been true of virtually every conversation I have ever had in my life. With the LLMs, they will go with your idea they will encourage --

it nurture it. You feel as if you are on a freeway and are zipping along in one direction and the LLM is energizing you. Of course it has turned out recently that there was a certain

amount of sychophantic behavior going on. Nevertheless it is so positive to have conversations that do not feel like running in waist high mud. 

 

I think the idea of an LLM-human subforum on Longecity makes a great deal of sense. We could witness this high energy type chatting and then discuss it perhaps with a more critical lens.

Edited by mag1, 12 May 2025 - 10:23 PM.

[pamojja]

My interactions with the LLMs have been extremely positive over the last few months -- I have been maxing out the responses available to me and then rotating to other

LLMs. So, I have entered into a very new era of high energy conversation. My previous chats with humans have never been like that - i never seemed to make any headway

before some argument would erupt.  That has been true of virtually every conversation I have ever had in my life. With the LLMs, they will go with your idea they will encourage --

it nurture it. You feel as if you are on a freeway and are zipping along in one direction and the LLM is energizing you. Of course it has turned out recently that there was a certain

amount of sychophantic behavior going on. Nevertheless it is so positive to have conversations that do not feel like running in waist high mud.

 

That why it is so tempting - as you did admit right away in your post - to cut down on any further human interaction. Social isolation in a clear risk to health-span.

 

 Sorry everyone for going AWOL for the last several months. 

Deepseek R1 hit and then it has been pretty much LLMs 24/7.

 

Instead, put it to good use, for example for ideas on how to increase meaningful interactions, or on valid but unpassionate answers to trolls. Real social interaction is actually far less ridden by trolls. Illusional online anonymity does allow a lot of people to lose their social inhibitions. And much is said, which never would in fact to face contact.

 

 

Think everyone is sucked in. I already had to limit my online time, by limiting it to stationary computers, but no smart-phones. On the other hand, we do have to acquaint ourselves with it, for learning to keep our guards up, to our future masters.

 

First came online-discussion forums, which already opened a small cycle of acquaintances to experts in their fields from everywhere in this world. Face to face social interaction thereby decreased. Now with these dolls of know-it-alls - face to face becomes too meaningless to some predestined individuals, and will drop it further to none.
 

It's tragic.

 

I try to resist. For example, by commuting with public transport (another of my experiments which failed: committed not driving a private car 38 years ago; but traffic increased only..) I always use this time to meditate open-eyed, in the hope that other commuters raise their heads from their screens. It never happens. Game over, before it even really begun.

 

 

 

Edited by pamojja, Yesterday, 11:59 AM.