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GOBLIGOOP AND ANYTHING GOES

spirituality religion christianity

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#151 johnross47

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 10:09 AM

I'm not going to quote your whole tedious screed. Have you ever compared your posts to other people's? Don't you notice that the rest of us make, mainly, short posts in our own words, and only rarely paste big chunks like you do.
Nobody else here indulges in, " Presenting the argument in such a way that makes the argument look ridiculous, usually by misrepresenting the argument or the use of exaggeration." to the degree that you do. You constantly accuse others of it, wrongly, and constantly do it yourself. You chop bits out of people's arguments and paste them in flaming red large type. Why? It makes you look like a disturbed adolescent.

"When the desire for something to be true is used in place of/or as evidence for the truthfulness of the claim. Wishful thinking, more as a cognitive bias than a logical fallacy, can also cause one to evaluate evidence very differently based on the desired outcome." this is pretty much the faith you constantly tell us we need.

"Scapegoating
Description: Unfairly blaming an unpopular person or group of people for a problem, or a person or group that is an easy target for such blame" .That's pretty much what you try to do to me with your violently expressed attacks, even in conversations that I wasn't taking part in. I'm taking part now because you attacked me here behind my back. You don't like the result. Tough! You don't like my posts because your logical inadequacy prevents you making properly argued responses. Tough. You claim to be a professional so you don't deserve gentle handling if you present silly arguments and vicious replies. As for the question, "Am I wrong?" at the top. What does it mean? I don't respond to fantasy versions of your posts; that's one reason you don't like them. I don't abuse other people, only you; because you constantly act like an adolescent troll.
Highlighting selected parts of this in flaming red and treating it as a clever response is very silly. It's at the level of "Nyah nyah nyah!" or that other common children's reply "So do you".

#152 shadowhawk

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 12:41 AM

I'm not going to quote your whole tedious screed. Have you ever compared your posts to other people's? Don't you notice that the rest of us make, mainly, short posts in our own words, and only rarely paste big chunks like you do.
Nobody else here indulges in, " Presenting the argument in such a way that makes the argument look ridiculous, usually by misrepresenting the argument or the use of exaggeration." to the degree that you do. You constantly accuse others of it, wrongly, and constantly do it yourself. You chop bits out of people's arguments and paste them in flaming red large type. Why? It makes you look like a disturbed adolescent.

"When the desire for something to be true is used in place of/or as evidence for the truthfulness of the claim. Wishful thinking, more as a cognitive bias than a logical fallacy, can also cause one to evaluate evidence very differently based on the desired outcome." this is pretty much the faith you constantly tell us we need.

"Scapegoating
Description: Unfairly blaming an unpopular person or group of people for a problem, or a person or group that is an easy target for such blame" .That's pretty much what you try to do to me with your violently expressed attacks, even in conversations that I wasn't taking part in. I'm taking part now because you attacked me here behind my back. You don't like the result. Tough! You don't like my posts because your logical inadequacy prevents you making properly argued responses. Tough. You claim to be a professional so you don't deserve gentle handling if you present silly arguments and vicious replies. As for the question, "Am I wrong?" at the top. What does it mean? I don't respond to fantasy versions of your posts; that's one reason you don't like them. I don't abuse other people, only you; because you constantly act like an adolescent troll.
Highlighting selected parts of this in flaming red and treating it as a clever response is very silly. It's at the level of "Nyah nyah nyah!" or that other common children's reply "So do you".

“IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??” topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
JOHNROSS 47, AN EXAMPLE OF ATHEISTS DERAILING THE TOPIC NAME CALLING, VIOLATION OF FORUM RULES and LOGICAL FALLACIES. And this is just one topic. http://www.longecity...390#entry639554
Oct. 23, 2013
His arguments always require a leap from logic to unsupported assertion. He just hides it better, in a flurry of showmanship, like a fairground snake-oil salesman.
http://www.longecity..._30#entry619355
This is another piece of conjuring.
http://www.longecity..._30#entry619380
I a not impressed by your reference to a God gene. That is tabloid press overinterpretation of shoddy research, the same as the silly idea that there is a special centre in the brain that works for religion.
http://www.longecity..._60#entry619774
I struggle to cope with the idea that anyone could take such peurile nonsense seriously. Can you find anyone else on the planet who can't see the hilarious silliness is proposition 2? The cause of the universe is an unsolved question. I could say it was caused by the fairies at the bottom of my garden with as much justification and grip on reality.
http://www.longecity..._60#entry619821
I long ago got bored arguing with a stream of unattributed quotes and misapplied misunderstood ideas from, as usual, again, unattributed sources. If you strip out the abuse there is nothing left that is original to the poster.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623323
I've put many logical points here.....you never address them....you either post another link or a short irrelevant insult. If you produced your objections to my posts in your own words and in the form of a proper logical discussion, I would treat you with more respect.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623447
I don't believe in any of the proposed gods. i have never seen a sound argument for accepting any of the god propositions. I do find the mental gymnastics of believers fascinating. From a psychological point of view, the mental gyrations of intelligent and educated believers tell us a lot about how the mind works, and the evolution of gods, from the completely understandable primitive forms to the modern versions, tells us a lot about the history of human understanding and culture.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623500
Once again you demonstrate your inability to deal with anything other than competitive quoting. The last few posts all dealt calmly and rationally with the problem of the possibility of evidence for any sort of religion, but you just declare it to be off topic
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623693
True believers are major practitioners of voluntary confirmation bias. Shadowhawk probably actually genuinely believes he has answered my points but in fact he has never even gone as far as to admit their existence
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623784
He teaches logic? At a university? Really? Which one; there's not a lot in Scotts Valley since Bethany U. closed down in 2011.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623912
the fundamental problem with all of these arguments is that they are trivial semantic tricks, but they have other flaws as well.

....he is indulging in dishonesty as well as cheap semantic trickery.
http://www.longecity...120#entry624206
Sarcastic remarks befitting a "teacher from hell" do nothing to advance the argument.

ID and its variants are an attempt to use pseudo-science and superficial compliance with scientific method to fake up an argument in support of the same old religious position its proponents have always held.

More "teacher from hell" fury
http://www.longecity...120#entry625186
do you read responses? If so do you understand what you've read? Do you struggle with reading comprehension? ....Do you write? Are you able to form your own thoughts and express them, or is it all just copy, paste, and videos of others' ideas? Do you have thoughts on these matters you're able to communicate?...I have asked him these questions too; over and over, and never had a meaningful answer. He raises a point then abuses you for being "off topic" or calls your answer a logical fallacy, but without ever offering any argument to back this up...This passage is a perfect example of the incoherent rage and misrepresentation that he resorts too...
http://www.longecity...120#entry625349
"There's no evidence of the supernatural claims of Christianity, but there's plenty of evidence of Christianity's brainwashing, as perfectly evidenced in this topic."
http://www.longecity...150#entry625777
what a load of rubbish. Talking fast doesn't improve the quality of the rubbish and just because he piles it high doesn't mean it turns to gold. These are just the same arguments we've seen over and over, and dismissed just as often. They didn't hold water last week and they'll still leak like sieves next week. The only difference this time is that the format is obviously aimed at bolstering the faith of the most credulous and uneducated believers.
I see no point in elaborating. You haven't given a reasoned objection on any of the many times I've elaborated before. If you can't participate like the adults on this forum why don't you go somewhere else?
http://www.longecity...150#entry625800

He's basically a religiously obsessed troll and I should just learn to ignore him.
http://www.longecity...150#entry626020
You may not have noticed but you're talking to yourself. You denied the existence and sincerity of everyone else's contributions so they've all gone away to somewhere an actual conversation is taking place.
http://www.longecity...180#entry627792
Hugh Ross has been criticized by CSUF professor emeritus Mark Perakh for crude errors and misunderstanding of basic concepts of thermodynamics together with misinterpretations of Hebrew words....much of this stuff is just a case of piling shit into very high heaps.
http://www.longecity...180#entry629696
So I gave you chance to act like a decent honest human. You failed. Goodbye.
http://www.longecity...210#entry630367
His ultimate justification for his conversion is that he had an experience; confusing events entirely in his brain with external reality, which is practically the definition schizophrenia. Many of the statements of religious people would be signs of mental illness if made outside a religious context. I've given him chance after chance to engage in a proper analysis of arguments but he only responds with abuse and derision. Looking over his performance in other topics I would have agree; there is a pattern.
http://www.longecity...210#entry630418
There is something quite self deluding about the believers claim to know what lies beyond current knowledge. The fact that science cannot answer the question might be regarded as a warning sign by sensible people, but the believer steps right in and says " We know the answer."
http://www.longecity...210#entry631071
You are more guilty of all these logical errors than anyone else Shadowhawk. You are entranced by cheap semantic tricks and shabby failed old "proofs" that nobody takes seriously, except W L Craig, who nobody takes seriously. Additionally you constantly abuse people in the most gratuitously insulting way, and presume to know things about them that, really, you clearly don't.
http://www.longecity...240#entry634080
The Kalam is a shabby seive....There are a huge number of flaws in this tired old argument. It should have been allowed to rest in its grave rather than being resurrected by Craig. One simple problem in it is that the argument as a whole is a compounding error.
http://www.longecity...270#entry634607
You've summed up this nonsense pretty completely. How can somebody who claims to be a teacher of logic possibly give this more than the few seconds needed to see that it is so trivially stupid that it it isn't even wrong. It's not wrong because it is so far from being any kind of coherent argument that it doesn't fit into any kind of error category. Don't expect any sort of reasoned explanation of why he thought it was worth posting; he never explains why he is shouting, "off topic", or "logical fallacy", or "straw man" or whatever is his insult of the week. I have never yet seen him explain any claimed logical objection. Not once. Not ever.
http://www.longecity...270#entry635057
As usual you have ducked the issue when somebody makes a criticism of your logic. Answer the point or admit you can't.
http://www.longecity...300#entry635439
I'm challenging you again...answer the point instead of pretending that nothing has been said. Prove your not a fraud.
http://www.longecity...300#entry635586
Like all these proofs, the immediate reaction to this, of any reasonable uncommitted person, is a strong feeling that it is nonsense; it looks like logic and it all seems to be in working order, but an ordinary grade BS detector tells you something is wrong. It's very wrong. This crock can be used to prove the existence of just about anything, gods, man-eating teapots, fairies, whatever you like. It's all in the definition used at the start. You can use it to prove god does not exist by negating the first premise. It is a great source of silliness because it is ultimately worthless.
http://www.longecity...330#entry636845
The argument is worthless because it can used to prove the existence of things, such as fairies, which are patently absurd. This alone is enough to expose it as a mere semantic conjuring trick. Powerful tools, like guns and modal logic, should not be put in the hands of infants, madmen or people with an axe to grind.
http://www.longecity...330#entry637384
One of the many difficulties involved in arguing with Christians is their incorrigible dishonesty. It's exactly the same problem as when creationists and intelligent designers say that they are not claiming that a specific god did it. ...
http://www.longecity...330#entry637969
find it hard to understand how a grown adult can seek to use such shamelessly aggressive denials when the facts are only a short scroll away....Just because something is possible does not make it actual, and when you combine it with the definitional issues you have chosen to avoid confronting, the whole thing is exposed as a steaming pile. S5 is a very dangerous piece of sophistry.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638268
No doubt you will declare yourself the winner simply by repeating all the rubbish over and over and ignoring all the other poster's points. Then you can reward yourself with some emoticons. Do you really imagine anyone will waste their time going back over your endless paste jobs? They don't suddenly become correct by repetition.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638353
The non believers understand perfectly. What is keeping us from agreeing with SH is the fact that his arguments are poor and mostly just wrong, and occasionally not even that. His style is offensive dishonest and evasive and would push people away from him and his god. From the quality of the posts here I would guess that we don't need to plead lack of intellect or knowledge. We are quite used to being patronised by believers so don't feel guilty about your remarks; we understand.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638543
I would treat you with more respect if you behaved better. Everyone else presents points and addresses the points made by others. You keep trying to compel everyone to talk only to you. Your comment about trying to derail the topic is very revealing; do you start the topic with a rigid plan which concludes with us all converting? In an open discussion nobody should be dictating the proceedings. It isn't actually a crime to pursue the topic as we want, or to examine aspects of it that you find inconvenient.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638579
post 386
Clearly you have experienced all sorts of emotional turmoil which has interacted with your religious faith, but, it has no bearing on the issues here. SH has presented a debate on evidence for Christianity and that is what we have addressed. Unfortunately it has been one sided. We have raised logical points and he has ignored them and/or shouted abuse.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638766
Your view of the relationship between SH and the other posters is so bizzare that your only possible excuses are either religious delusions or that you are taking the piss. (if you know the expression? It's British) If your post is serious it is deeply offensive and shows massive ignorance of other people's lives and personal dignity and worth.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638782
Looks like the topic is thoroughly derailed. Now you know the difference.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638963
Now that your fellow believer (he is an agnostic, not a christian) has really derailed the topic you might like to rethink the way you answer the rest of us. You may not recall it but I do remember previously saying that if we knew which of the Christian gods you adhere to, it would make it much easier to address the issues. Not in those words precisely, but I have life to live, stuff to do.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638966
For me this is like some random overheard snippet from a highly controlled, paranoid, alien culture. I'm not sure I could communicate meaningfully with the writer; the cuture specific references are so dense and so opaque that the intended meaning escapes.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638987
In a general sense I can go along with much of this. This topic is going nowhere. SH keeps posting more and more clips of preachers claiming to prove the existence of a god; they are all wrong; all these arguments have been shown to be wrong over and over; no serious non-theist thinkers give them any time or credence....You might argue for ever about the definition of god; (religious people usually conduct those arguments with guns and swords; they obviously don't have much faith in reasoning) but there's not much to go on except holy books written by people who couldn't and didn't have any evidence or understanding of the nature of the problem....Our universe might be a simple accident to something that big, or a brief and temporary amusement; a throwing of celestial mechanical dice to see what happens. Whatever, it's a long way from christianity.
http://www.longecity...390#entry639682
...."they are all wrong; all these arguments have been shown to be wrong over and over; no serious non-theist thinkers give them any time or credence" Where do you see any claims about what I have done?....your whole response goes on like this. Red Herrings, Straw Men, Logical Fallacies; you've got them all. This is why you are a waste of time, and wasting your own proselitizing time.
http://www.longecity...420#entry639761
You are really one of the most offensive people I've ever wasted time on. Are you calling me a liar? Really? Sitting there in California you know I'm not in the middle of moving house? You lie, you smear, you misrepresent and you constantly accuse everyone else of the things you do yourself.
http://www.longecity...420#entry639881
OK I get the message; you are supposed to be a teacher of logic and you haven't been able to answer a single one of these points, so you hate me to the greatest degree that a love everybody christian can manage. (i.e. a lot) If you were a decent human being I would feel sorry for you and try to be nice but since I am ASD and care very deeply for the rules and honesty, I find it very hard to apply the psychological lessons I've learned; your case is extreme.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640437
Very noble and sensible, but look at the hate filled diatribes that follow your post. What I would like is a reasoned discussion of the topic where everybody follows the rules and logical points are met with logical analysis, but it isn't going to happen here; any attempt to challenge his dogmas is met with vitriolic eruptions of accusation and denial. My language may sometimes stray into the colourful but it isn't simple abuse and it does relate to the points being attacked, which are often childishly silly and deserve no leniency when they are put forward by a professional logician. He does not claim to be a civilian in this subject. He is a fully armed combatant, but instead of using his logical weapons he resorts to childish abuse and constant extreme breaches of the rules.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640439
The time and effort put into this suggests a dangerous level of obsession, (and too much time on your hands). I'm glad I don't live anywhere near you; I would feel the need of high level security. By the way, to save others from wasting time, the links in the above are just to where the quotes were taken from. They aren't answers to the points, obviously, since no answers were ever given.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640578
Well known experiments and theories with no connection to the existence of the Christian god. Such a conclusion would require exactly the same leap, already rejected, from the world of evidence and reason to a world of faith and evidence free presumption
http://www.longecity...450#entry641198
You're back to piling up rubbish and expecting it to turn into gold. It stays rubbish no matter how often you repeat it or how high you pile it. All of this nonsense has been shown to be rubbish over and over. There's no reason anyone should waste time presenting you with repeat arguments you will just ignore. If you choose to ignore the science and to believe creationist distortions instead, you're not going to find many followers on this forum, and I'll be surprised if anyone can be bothered picking all this nonsense apart and giving you the necessary biology lessons. Evolution is a demonstrable fact but if you choose to close your eyes that's just your problem. If you choose to believe it could only work with a divine hand pulling the strings, again, that's your problem and you're probably incorrigible. You've certainly demonstrated no ability to take in new information so far, or to change your views when the facts change. I suspect that, if you really are the teacher you claim to be, you know deep down inside that this stuff fails all the tests you would apply to students' work; you are suffering from a massive cognitive dissonance overload and taking it out on us.
http://www.longecity...450#entry641426
Poor old shadowhawk; doomed forever to go round and round posting the same futile debunked nonsense; posting the same again, and again, and again, and again...............you're persuading nobody, not even yourself.
http://www.longecity...450#entry641868

NO ARGUMENTS, JUST NAME CALLING LOGICAL FALLACIES AND ATTEMPTED DERAILMENT OF TOPIC, “IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??”.

TO POST 463
http://www.longecity.../feature/bylawA

#153 johnross47

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 10:58 AM

Obviously, as a sane person I'm not going to quote your ridiculously long outpourings. If I lived within reach of you I would be truly scared of your obsessive hatred. It must have taken a long time to put that lot together; I can't imagine hating anyone so obsessively that I would spend that amount of time and effort compiling all their posts for such an attack. Poor you.
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#154 johnross47

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 05:59 PM

If you read these points I made carefully you will see that they do actually answer your flawed arguments. You may not like the robust style but that is a consequence of your refusal to engage in proper discussion. I have not derailed any topics. Disagreeing with you is not derailing the topic. You cannot decree that the discussion will follow a path pre-ordained by you; participants have the right to choose their own arguments and to post them in their own words, which everyone here, except you, does successfully. If you are capable of rational judgement you can look at my responses to other people; you will see that I am polite when the other party is. The constant stream of vilification, misrepresentation, dishonesty and evasion that you pour out, is what leads me to treat you with contempt. Perhaps I should be more charitable and simply post calmly worded rebutals to your posts, but I suspect, in the light of your replies to others who do just that, that it would be met with the contemptuous dishonesty you employ here.

#155 shadowhawk

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 02:30 AM

Obviously, as a sane person I'm not going to quote your ridiculously long outpourings. If I lived within reach of you I would be truly scared of your obsessive hatred. It must have taken a long time to put that lot together; I can't imagine hating anyone so obsessively that I would spend that amount of time and effort compiling all their posts for such an attack. Poor you.

What is really amazing is this is all YOU!!! I didn't make this up. http://www.longecity...150#entry643688

You claim this mass of logical fallacies contains real rebuttals to points I made. Where? Give me one example where you actually presented a defeater for a point I made. Lets discuss it. :)

Edited by shadowhawk, 19 February 2014 - 02:41 AM.


#156 johnross47

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 06:57 AM

"You're back to piling up rubbish and expecting it to turn into gold. It stays rubbish no matter how often you repeat it or how high you pile it. All of this nonsense has been shown to be rubbish over and over. There's no reason anyone should waste time presenting you with repeat arguments you will just ignore. If you choose to ignore the science and to believe creationist distortions instead, you're not going to find many followers on this forum, and I'll be surprised if anyone can be bothered picking all this nonsense apart and giving you the necessary biology lessons. Evolution is a demonstrable fact but if you choose to close your eyes that's just your problem. If you choose to believe it could only work with a divine hand pulling the strings, again, that's your problem and you're probably incorrigible. You've certainly demonstrated no ability to take in new information so far, or to change your views when the facts change. I suspect that, if you really are the teacher you claim to be, you know deep down inside that this stuff fails all the tests you would apply to students' work; you are suffering from a massive cognitive dissonance overload and taking it out on us."
I have made genuine point here; one I have to make often in your case. You attempt to claim that many dubious proofs add up to real evidence; I point out that two wrongs don't make a right; a massive heap of bullshit does not turn into gold. You abuse of evidence in this case is an example of the sort of mud flinging used by politicians; if you throw enough you hope some will stick and the sheer quantity will make it look like there is a real case in there somewhere. I don't know if this has a fancy Latin name so I called it , "The piling shit high and expecting it to turn into gold fallacy."
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#157 shadowhawk

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:04 PM

Johnross 47: "You're back to piling up rubbish and expecting it to turn into gold. It stays rubbish no matter how often you repeat it or how high you pile it. All of this nonsense has been shown to be rubbish over and over. There's no reason anyone should waste time presenting you with repeat arguments you will just ignore. If you choose to ignore the science and to believe creationist distortions instead, you're not going to find many followers on this forum, and I'll be surprised if anyone can be bothered picking all this nonsense apart and giving you the necessary biology lessons. Evolution is a demonstrable fact but if you choose to close your eyes that's just your problem. If you choose to believe it could only work with a divine hand pulling the strings, again, that's your problem and you're probably incorrigible. You've certainly demonstrated no ability to take in new information so far, or to change your views when the facts change. I suspect that, if you really are the teacher you claim to be, you know deep down inside that this stuff fails all the tests you would apply to students' work; you are suffering from a massive cognitive dissonance overload and taking it out on us."
I have made genuine point here; one I have to make often in your case. You attempt to claim that many dubious proofs add up to real evidence; I point out that two wrongs don't make a right; a massive heap of bullshit does not turn into gold. You abuse of evidence in this case is an example of the sort of mud flinging used by politicians; if you throw enough you hope some will stick and the sheer quantity will make it look like there is a real case in there somewhere. I don't know if this has a fancy Latin name so I called it , "The piling shit high and expecting it to turn into gold fallacy."


You made the bogus claim that you have answered the arguments I presented for God. I invited you to show me one example. I get this. Not one bit of evidence. Just as I expected, more of the same name calling, logical fallacies and breaking of the forum rules. This is another of hundreds of examples of endless nonsense. http://www.longecity...150#entry643688

You won’t present any example because there are none. Rave on. We know, from the real evidence, what you are doing.
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#158 johnross47

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:13 PM

That is possibly the most idiotic response I have had from you yet. It's so blatant that it more or less acts as an admission that you know you are wrong. As I've asked you before, do you realise that other people can read this? Do you think there is anyone here who is stupid enough not to see through you?

#159 shadowhawk

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:19 PM

That is possibly the most idiotic response I have had from you yet. It's so blatant that it more or less acts as an admission that you know you are wrong. As I've asked you before, do you realise that other people can read this? Do you think there is anyone here who is stupid enough not to see through you?

More and more names...wishful thinking, straw man. :-D Rave on..

Edited by shadowhawk, 19 February 2014 - 11:25 PM.


#160 johnross47

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:42 AM

These childish responses remind me of the sort of things that theatres do to bad reviews. The reviewer writes, "This is so far from a blockbuster that it will bust the theatre's finances." The theatre posts the quote "blockbuster" above the marquee. You must stop being so childish if you want people to take you seriously.

#161 shadowhawk

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:02 PM

These childish responses remind me of the sort of things that theatres do to bad reviews. The reviewer writes, "This is so far from a blockbuster that it will bust the theatre's finances." The theatre posts the quote "blockbuster" above the marquee. You must stop being so childish if you want people to take you seriously.


Are you talking about yourself? It what you are saying that is the discussion.

#162 johnross47

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:24 PM

You must stop being so childish if you want people to take you seriously.

#163 shadowhawk

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:02 PM

You must stop being so childish if you want people to take you seriously.

NAME CALLING AGAIN. You can't stop. GOBLIGOOP,

#164 johnross47

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:26 AM

You must stop being so childish if you want people to take you seriously.

#165 shadowhawk

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 06:56 PM

You must stop being so childish if you want people to take you seriously.


:sleep:

#166 shadowhawk

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 07:44 PM

“IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??” topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
JOHNROSS 47, AN EXAMPLE OF ATHEISTS DERAILING THE TOPIC NAME CALLING, VIOLATION OF FORUM RULES and LOGICAL FALLACIES. And this is just one topic. http://www.longecity...390#entry639554
Oct. 23, 2013
His arguments always require a leap from logic to unsupported assertion. He just hides it better, in a flurry of showmanship, like a fairground snake-oil salesman.
http://www.longecity..._30#entry619355
This is another piece of conjuring.
http://www.longecity..._30#entry619380
I a not impressed by your reference to a God gene. That is tabloid press overinterpretation of shoddy research, the same as the silly idea that there is a special centre in the brain that works for religion.
http://www.longecity..._60#entry619774
I struggle to cope with the idea that anyone could take such peurile nonsense seriously. Can you find anyone else on the planet who can't see the hilarious silliness is proposition 2? The cause of the universe is an unsolved question. I could say it was caused by the fairies at the bottom of my garden with as much justification and grip on reality.
http://www.longecity..._60#entry619821
I long ago got bored arguing with a stream of unattributed quotes and misapplied misunderstood ideas from, as usual, again, unattributed sources. If you strip out the abuse there is nothing left that is original to the poster.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623323
I've put many logical points here.....you never address them....you either post another link or a short irrelevant insult. If you produced your objections to my posts in your own words and in the form of a proper logical discussion, I would treat you with more respect.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623447
I don't believe in any of the proposed gods. i have never seen a sound argument for accepting any of the god propositions. I do find the mental gymnastics of believers fascinating. From a psychological point of view, the mental gyrations of intelligent and educated believers tell us a lot about how the mind works, and the evolution of gods, from the completely understandable primitive forms to the modern versions, tells us a lot about the history of human understanding and culture.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623500
Once again you demonstrate your inability to deal with anything other than competitive quoting. The last few posts all dealt calmly and rationally with the problem of the possibility of evidence for any sort of religion, but you just declare it to be off topic
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623693
True believers are major practitioners of voluntary confirmation bias. Shadowhawk probably actually genuinely believes he has answered my points but in fact he has never even gone as far as to admit their existence
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623784
He teaches logic? At a university? Really? Which one; there's not a lot in Scotts Valley since Bethany U. closed down in 2011.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623912
the fundamental problem with all of these arguments is that they are trivial semantic tricks, but they have other flaws as well.

....he is indulging in dishonesty as well as cheap semantic trickery.
http://www.longecity...120#entry624206
Sarcastic remarks befitting a "teacher from hell" do nothing to advance the argument.

ID and its variants are an attempt to use pseudo-science and superficial compliance with scientific method to fake up an argument in support of the same old religious position its proponents have always held.

More "teacher from hell" fury
http://www.longecity...120#entry625186
do you read responses? If so do you understand what you've read? Do you struggle with reading comprehension? ....Do you write? Are you able to form your own thoughts and express them, or is it all just copy, paste, and videos of others' ideas? Do you have thoughts on these matters you're able to communicate?...I have asked him these questions too; over and over, and never had a meaningful answer. He raises a point then abuses you for being "off topic" or calls your answer a logical fallacy, but without ever offering any argument to back this up...This passage is a perfect example of the incoherent rage and misrepresentation that he resorts too...
http://www.longecity...120#entry625349
"There's no evidence of the supernatural claims of Christianity, but there's plenty of evidence of Christianity's brainwashing, as perfectly evidenced in this topic."
http://www.longecity...150#entry625777
what a load of rubbish. Talking fast doesn't improve the quality of the rubbish and just because he piles it high doesn't mean it turns to gold. These are just the same arguments we've seen over and over, and dismissed just as often. They didn't hold water last week and they'll still leak like sieves next week. The only difference this time is that the format is obviously aimed at bolstering the faith of the most credulous and uneducated believers.
I see no point in elaborating. You haven't given a reasoned objection on any of the many times I've elaborated before. If you can't participate like the adults on this forum why don't you go somewhere else?
http://www.longecity...150#entry625800

He's basically a religiously obsessed troll and I should just learn to ignore him.
http://www.longecity...150#entry626020
You may not have noticed but you're talking to yourself. You denied the existence and sincerity of everyone else's contributions so they've all gone away to somewhere an actual conversation is taking place.
http://www.longecity...180#entry627792
Hugh Ross has been criticized by CSUF professor emeritus Mark Perakh for crude errors and misunderstanding of basic concepts of thermodynamics together with misinterpretations of Hebrew words....much of this stuff is just a case of piling shit into very high heaps.
http://www.longecity...180#entry629696
So I gave you chance to act like a decent honest human. You failed. Goodbye.
http://www.longecity...210#entry630367
His ultimate justification for his conversion is that he had an experience; confusing events entirely in his brain with external reality, which is practically the definition schizophrenia. Many of the statements of religious people would be signs of mental illness if made outside a religious context. I've given him chance after chance to engage in a proper analysis of arguments but he only responds with abuse and derision. Looking over his performance in other topics I would have agree; there is a pattern.
http://www.longecity...210#entry630418
There is something quite self deluding about the believers claim to know what lies beyond current knowledge. The fact that science cannot answer the question might be regarded as a warning sign by sensible people, but the believer steps right in and says " We know the answer."
http://www.longecity...210#entry631071
You are more guilty of all these logical errors than anyone else Shadowhawk. You are entranced by cheap semantic tricks and shabby failed old "proofs" that nobody takes seriously, except W L Craig, who nobody takes seriously. Additionally you constantly abuse people in the most gratuitously insulting way, and presume to know things about them that, really, you clearly don't.
http://www.longecity...240#entry634080
The Kalam is a shabby seive....There are a huge number of flaws in this tired old argument. It should have been allowed to rest in its grave rather than being resurrected by Craig. One simple problem in it is that the argument as a whole is a compounding error.
http://www.longecity...270#entry634607
You've summed up this nonsense pretty completely. How can somebody who claims to be a teacher of logic possibly give this more than the few seconds needed to see that it is so trivially stupid that it it isn't even wrong. It's not wrong because it is so far from being any kind of coherent argument that it doesn't fit into any kind of error category. Don't expect any sort of reasoned explanation of why he thought it was worth posting; he never explains why he is shouting, "off topic", or "logical fallacy", or "straw man" or whatever is his insult of the week. I have never yet seen him explain any claimed logical objection. Not once. Not ever.
http://www.longecity...270#entry635057
As usual you have ducked the issue when somebody makes a criticism of your logic. Answer the point or admit you can't.
http://www.longecity...300#entry635439
I'm challenging you again...answer the point instead of pretending that nothing has been said. Prove your not a fraud.
http://www.longecity...300#entry635586
Like all these proofs, the immediate reaction to this, of any reasonable uncommitted person, is a strong feeling that it is nonsense; it looks like logic and it all seems to be in working order, but an ordinary grade BS detector tells you something is wrong. It's very wrong. This crock can be used to prove the existence of just about anything, gods, man-eating teapots, fairies, whatever you like. It's all in the definition used at the start. You can use it to prove god does not exist by negating the first premise. It is a great source of silliness because it is ultimately worthless.
http://www.longecity...330#entry636845
The argument is worthless because it can used to prove the existence of things, such as fairies, which are patently absurd. This alone is enough to expose it as a mere semantic conjuring trick. Powerful tools, like guns and modal logic, should not be put in the hands of infants, madmen or people with an axe to grind.
http://www.longecity...330#entry637384
One of the many difficulties involved in arguing with Christians is their incorrigible dishonesty. It's exactly the same problem as when creationists and intelligent designers say that they are not claiming that a specific god did it. ...
http://www.longecity...330#entry637969
find it hard to understand how a grown adult can seek to use such shamelessly aggressive denials when the facts are only a short scroll away....Just because something is possible does not make it actual, and when you combine it with the definitional issues you have chosen to avoid confronting, the whole thing is exposed as a steaming pile. S5 is a very dangerous piece of sophistry.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638268
No doubt you will declare yourself the winner simply by repeating all the rubbish over and over and ignoring all the other poster's points. Then you can reward yourself with some emoticons. Do you really imagine anyone will waste their time going back over your endless paste jobs? They don't suddenly become correct by repetition.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638353
The non believers understand perfectly. What is keeping us from agreeing with SH is the fact that his arguments are poor and mostly just wrong, and occasionally not even that. His style is offensive dishonest and evasive and would push people away from him and his god. From the quality of the posts here I would guess that we don't need to plead lack of intellect or knowledge. We are quite used to being patronised by believers so don't feel guilty about your remarks; we understand.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638543
I would treat you with more respect if you behaved better. Everyone else presents points and addresses the points made by others. You keep trying to compel everyone to talk only to you. Your comment about trying to derail the topic is very revealing; do you start the topic with a rigid plan which concludes with us all converting? In an open discussion nobody should be dictating the proceedings. It isn't actually a crime to pursue the topic as we want, or to examine aspects of it that you find inconvenient.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638579
post 386
Clearly you have experienced all sorts of emotional turmoil which has interacted with your religious faith, but, it has no bearing on the issues here. SH has presented a debate on evidence for Christianity and that is what we have addressed. Unfortunately it has been one sided. We have raised logical points and he has ignored them and/or shouted abuse.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638766
Your view of the relationship between SH and the other posters is so bizzare that your only possible excuses are either religious delusions or that you are taking the piss. (if you know the expression? It's British) If your post is serious it is deeply offensive and shows massive ignorance of other people's lives and personal dignity and worth.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638782
Looks like the topic is thoroughly derailed. Now you know the difference.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638963
Now that your fellow believer (he is an agnostic, not a christian) has really derailed the topic you might like to rethink the way you answer the rest of us. You may not recall it but I do remember previously saying that if we knew which of the Christian gods you adhere to, it would make it much easier to address the issues. Not in those words precisely, but I have life to live, stuff to do.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638966
For me this is like some random overheard snippet from a highly controlled, paranoid, alien culture. I'm not sure I could communicate meaningfully with the writer; the cuture specific references are so dense and so opaque that the intended meaning escapes.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638987
In a general sense I can go along with much of this. This topic is going nowhere. SH keeps posting more and more clips of preachers claiming to prove the existence of a god; they are all wrong; all these arguments have been shown to be wrong over and over; no serious non-theist thinkers give them any time or credence....You might argue for ever about the definition of god; (religious people usually conduct those arguments with guns and swords; they obviously don't have much faith in reasoning) but there's not much to go on except holy books written by people who couldn't and didn't have any evidence or understanding of the nature of the problem....Our universe might be a simple accident to something that big, or a brief and temporary amusement; a throwing of celestial mechanical dice to see what happens. Whatever, it's a long way from christianity.
http://www.longecity...390#entry639682
...."they are all wrong; all these arguments have been shown to be wrong over and over; no serious non-theist thinkers give them any time or credence" Where do you see any claims about what I have done?....your whole response goes on like this. Red Herrings, Straw Men, Logical Fallacies; you've got them all. This is why you are a waste of time, and wasting your own proselitizing time.
http://www.longecity...420#entry639761
You are really one of the most offensive people I've ever wasted time on. Are you calling me a liar? Really? Sitting there in California you know I'm not in the middle of moving house? You lie, you smear, you misrepresent and you constantly accuse everyone else of the things you do yourself.
http://www.longecity...420#entry639881
OK I get the message; you are supposed to be a teacher of logic and you haven't been able to answer a single one of these points, so you hate me to the greatest degree that a love everybody christian can manage. (i.e. a lot) If you were a decent human being I would feel sorry for you and try to be nice but since I am ASD and care very deeply for the rules and honesty, I find it very hard to apply the psychological lessons I've learned; your case is extreme.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640437
Very noble and sensible, but look at the hate filled diatribes that follow your post. What I would like is a reasoned discussion of the topic where everybody follows the rules and logical points are met with logical analysis, but it isn't going to happen here; any attempt to challenge his dogmas is met with vitriolic eruptions of accusation and denial. My language may sometimes stray into the colourful but it isn't simple abuse and it does relate to the points being attacked, which are often childishly silly and deserve no leniency when they are put forward by a professional logician. He does not claim to be a civilian in this subject. He is a fully armed combatant, but instead of using his logical weapons he resorts to childish abuse and constant extreme breaches of the rules.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640439
The time and effort put into this suggests a dangerous level of obsession, (and too much time on your hands). I'm glad I don't live anywhere near you; I would feel the need of high level security. By the way, to save others from wasting time, the links in the above are just to where the quotes were taken from. They aren't answers to the points, obviously, since no answers were ever given.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640578
Well known experiments and theories with no connection to the existence of the Christian god. Such a conclusion would require exactly the same leap, already rejected, from the world of evidence and reason to a world of faith and evidence free presumption
http://www.longecity...450#entry641198
You're back to piling up rubbish and expecting it to turn into gold. It stays rubbish no matter how often you repeat it or how high you pile it. All of this nonsense has been shown to be rubbish over and over. There's no reason anyone should waste time presenting you with repeat arguments you will just ignore. If you choose to ignore the science and to believe creationist distortions instead, you're not going to find many followers on this forum, and I'll be surprised if anyone can be bothered picking all this nonsense apart and giving you the necessary biology lessons. Evolution is a demonstrable fact but if you choose to close your eyes that's just your problem. If you choose to believe it could only work with a divine hand pulling the strings, again, that's your problem and you're probably incorrigible. You've certainly demonstrated no ability to take in new information so far, or to change your views when the facts change. I suspect that, if you really are the teacher you claim to be, you know deep down inside that this stuff fails all the tests you would apply to students' work; you are suffering from a massive cognitive dissonance overload and taking it out on us.
http://www.longecity...450#entry641426
Poor old shadowhawk; doomed forever to go round and round posting the same futile debunked nonsense; posting the same again, and again, and again, and again...............you're persuading nobody, not even yourself.
http://www.longecity...450#entry641868

NO ARGUMENTS, JUST NAME CALLING LOGICAL FALLACIES AND ATTEMPTED DERAILMENT OF TOPIC, “IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??”.

TO POST 463
http://www.longecity.../feature/bylawA

#167 johnross47

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:00 PM

Was that really worth posting? Did it make you feel better or just more angry?

#168 shadowhawk

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:12 PM

Was that really worth posting? Did it make you feel better or just more angry?


:)

#169 shadowhawk

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 12:41 AM

“IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??” topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
JOHNROSS 47, AN EXAMPLE OF ATHEISTS DERAILING THE TOPIC NAME CALLING, VIOLATION OF FORUM RULES and LOGICAL FALLACIES. And this is just one topic. http://www.longecity...390#entry639554
Oct. 23, 2013
His arguments always require a leap from logic to unsupported assertion. He just hides it better, in a flurry of showmanship, like a fairground snake-oil salesman.
http://www.longecity..._30#entry619355
This is another piece of conjuring.
http://www.longecity..._30#entry619380
I a not impressed by your reference to a God gene. That is tabloid press overinterpretation of shoddy research, the same as the silly idea that there is a special centre in the brain that works for religion.
http://www.longecity..._60#entry619774
I struggle to cope with the idea that anyone could take such peurile nonsense seriously. Can you find anyone else on the planet who can't see the hilarious silliness is proposition 2? The cause of the universe is an unsolved question. I could say it was caused by the fairies at the bottom of my garden with as much justification and grip on reality.
http://www.longecity..._60#entry619821
I long ago got bored arguing with a stream of unattributed quotes and misapplied misunderstood ideas from, as usual, again, unattributed sources. If you strip out the abuse there is nothing left that is original to the poster.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623323
I've put many logical points here.....you never address them....you either post another link or a short irrelevant insult. If you produced your objections to my posts in your own words and in the form of a proper logical discussion, I would treat you with more respect.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623447
I don't believe in any of the proposed gods. i have never seen a sound argument for accepting any of the god propositions. I do find the mental gymnastics of believers fascinating. From a psychological point of view, the mental gyrations of intelligent and educated believers tell us a lot about how the mind works, and the evolution of gods, from the completely understandable primitive forms to the modern versions, tells us a lot about the history of human understanding and culture.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623500
Once again you demonstrate your inability to deal with anything other than competitive quoting. The last few posts all dealt calmly and rationally with the problem of the possibility of evidence for any sort of religion, but you just declare it to be off topic
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623693
True believers are major practitioners of voluntary confirmation bias. Shadowhawk probably actually genuinely believes he has answered my points but in fact he has never even gone as far as to admit their existence
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623784
He teaches logic? At a university? Really? Which one; there's not a lot in Scotts Valley since Bethany U. closed down in 2011.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623912
the fundamental problem with all of these arguments is that they are trivial semantic tricks, but they have other flaws as well.

....he is indulging in dishonesty as well as cheap semantic trickery.
http://www.longecity...120#entry624206
Sarcastic remarks befitting a "teacher from hell" do nothing to advance the argument.

ID and its variants are an attempt to use pseudo-science and superficial compliance with scientific method to fake up an argument in support of the same old religious position its proponents have always held.

More "teacher from hell" fury
http://www.longecity...120#entry625186
do you read responses? If so do you understand what you've read? Do you struggle with reading comprehension? ....Do you write? Are you able to form your own thoughts and express them, or is it all just copy, paste, and videos of others' ideas? Do you have thoughts on these matters you're able to communicate?...I have asked him these questions too; over and over, and never had a meaningful answer. He raises a point then abuses you for being "off topic" or calls your answer a logical fallacy, but without ever offering any argument to back this up...This passage is a perfect example of the incoherent rage and misrepresentation that he resorts too...
http://www.longecity...120#entry625349
"There's no evidence of the supernatural claims of Christianity, but there's plenty of evidence of Christianity's brainwashing, as perfectly evidenced in this topic."
http://www.longecity...150#entry625777
what a load of rubbish. Talking fast doesn't improve the quality of the rubbish and just because he piles it high doesn't mean it turns to gold. These are just the same arguments we've seen over and over, and dismissed just as often. They didn't hold water last week and they'll still leak like sieves next week. The only difference this time is that the format is obviously aimed at bolstering the faith of the most credulous and uneducated believers.
I see no point in elaborating. You haven't given a reasoned objection on any of the many times I've elaborated before. If you can't participate like the adults on this forum why don't you go somewhere else?
http://www.longecity...150#entry625800

He's basically a religiously obsessed troll and I should just learn to ignore him.
http://www.longecity...150#entry626020
You may not have noticed but you're talking to yourself. You denied the existence and sincerity of everyone else's contributions so they've all gone away to somewhere an actual conversation is taking place.
http://www.longecity...180#entry627792
Hugh Ross has been criticized by CSUF professor emeritus Mark Perakh for crude errors and misunderstanding of basic concepts of thermodynamics together with misinterpretations of Hebrew words....much of this stuff is just a case of piling shit into very high heaps.
http://www.longecity...180#entry629696
So I gave you chance to act like a decent honest human. You failed. Goodbye.
http://www.longecity...210#entry630367
His ultimate justification for his conversion is that he had an experience; confusing events entirely in his brain with external reality, which is practically the definition schizophrenia. Many of the statements of religious people would be signs of mental illness if made outside a religious context. I've given him chance after chance to engage in a proper analysis of arguments but he only responds with abuse and derision. Looking over his performance in other topics I would have agree; there is a pattern.
http://www.longecity...210#entry630418
There is something quite self deluding about the believers claim to know what lies beyond current knowledge. The fact that science cannot answer the question might be regarded as a warning sign by sensible people, but the believer steps right in and says " We know the answer."
http://www.longecity...210#entry631071
You are more guilty of all these logical errors than anyone else Shadowhawk. You are entranced by cheap semantic tricks and shabby failed old "proofs" that nobody takes seriously, except W L Craig, who nobody takes seriously. Additionally you constantly abuse people in the most gratuitously insulting way, and presume to know things about them that, really, you clearly don't.
http://www.longecity...240#entry634080
The Kalam is a shabby seive....There are a huge number of flaws in this tired old argument. It should have been allowed to rest in its grave rather than being resurrected by Craig. One simple problem in it is that the argument as a whole is a compounding error.
http://www.longecity...270#entry634607
You've summed up this nonsense pretty completely. How can somebody who claims to be a teacher of logic possibly give this more than the few seconds needed to see that it is so trivially stupid that it it isn't even wrong. It's not wrong because it is so far from being any kind of coherent argument that it doesn't fit into any kind of error category. Don't expect any sort of reasoned explanation of why he thought it was worth posting; he never explains why he is shouting, "off topic", or "logical fallacy", or "straw man" or whatever is his insult of the week. I have never yet seen him explain any claimed logical objection. Not once. Not ever.
http://www.longecity...270#entry635057
As usual you have ducked the issue when somebody makes a criticism of your logic. Answer the point or admit you can't.
http://www.longecity...300#entry635439
I'm challenging you again...answer the point instead of pretending that nothing has been said. Prove your not a fraud.
http://www.longecity...300#entry635586
Like all these proofs, the immediate reaction to this, of any reasonable uncommitted person, is a strong feeling that it is nonsense; it looks like logic and it all seems to be in working order, but an ordinary grade BS detector tells you something is wrong. It's very wrong. This crock can be used to prove the existence of just about anything, gods, man-eating teapots, fairies, whatever you like. It's all in the definition used at the start. You can use it to prove god does not exist by negating the first premise. It is a great source of silliness because it is ultimately worthless.
http://www.longecity...330#entry636845
The argument is worthless because it can used to prove the existence of things, such as fairies, which are patently absurd. This alone is enough to expose it as a mere semantic conjuring trick. Powerful tools, like guns and modal logic, should not be put in the hands of infants, madmen or people with an axe to grind.
http://www.longecity...330#entry637384
One of the many difficulties involved in arguing with Christians is their incorrigible dishonesty. It's exactly the same problem as when creationists and intelligent designers say that they are not claiming that a specific god did it. ...
http://www.longecity...330#entry637969
find it hard to understand how a grown adult can seek to use such shamelessly aggressive denials when the facts are only a short scroll away....Just because something is possible does not make it actual, and when you combine it with the definitional issues you have chosen to avoid confronting, the whole thing is exposed as a steaming pile. S5 is a very dangerous piece of sophistry.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638268
No doubt you will declare yourself the winner simply by repeating all the rubbish over and over and ignoring all the other poster's points. Then you can reward yourself with some emoticons. Do you really imagine anyone will waste their time going back over your endless paste jobs? They don't suddenly become correct by repetition.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638353
The non believers understand perfectly. What is keeping us from agreeing with SH is the fact that his arguments are poor and mostly just wrong, and occasionally not even that. His style is offensive dishonest and evasive and would push people away from him and his god. From the quality of the posts here I would guess that we don't need to plead lack of intellect or knowledge. We are quite used to being patronised by believers so don't feel guilty about your remarks; we understand.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638543
I would treat you with more respect if you behaved better. Everyone else presents points and addresses the points made by others. You keep trying to compel everyone to talk only to you. Your comment about trying to derail the topic is very revealing; do you start the topic with a rigid plan which concludes with us all converting? In an open discussion nobody should be dictating the proceedings. It isn't actually a crime to pursue the topic as we want, or to examine aspects of it that you find inconvenient.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638579
post 386
Clearly you have experienced all sorts of emotional turmoil which has interacted with your religious faith, but, it has no bearing on the issues here. SH has presented a debate on evidence for Christianity and that is what we have addressed. Unfortunately it has been one sided. We have raised logical points and he has ignored them and/or shouted abuse.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638766
Your view of the relationship between SH and the other posters is so bizzare that your only possible excuses are either religious delusions or that you are taking the piss. (if you know the expression? It's British) If your post is serious it is deeply offensive and shows massive ignorance of other people's lives and personal dignity and worth.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638782
Looks like the topic is thoroughly derailed. Now you know the difference.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638963
Now that your fellow believer (he is an agnostic, not a christian) has really derailed the topic you might like to rethink the way you answer the rest of us. You may not recall it but I do remember previously saying that if we knew which of the Christian gods you adhere to, it would make it much easier to address the issues. Not in those words precisely, but I have life to live, stuff to do.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638966
For me this is like some random overheard snippet from a highly controlled, paranoid, alien culture. I'm not sure I could communicate meaningfully with the writer; the cuture specific references are so dense and so opaque that the intended meaning escapes.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638987
In a general sense I can go along with much of this. This topic is going nowhere. SH keeps posting more and more clips of preachers claiming to prove the existence of a god; they are all wrong; all these arguments have been shown to be wrong over and over; no serious non-theist thinkers give them any time or credence....You might argue for ever about the definition of god; (religious people usually conduct those arguments with guns and swords; they obviously don't have much faith in reasoning) but there's not much to go on except holy books written by people who couldn't and didn't have any evidence or understanding of the nature of the problem....Our universe might be a simple accident to something that big, or a brief and temporary amusement; a throwing of celestial mechanical dice to see what happens. Whatever, it's a long way from christianity.
http://www.longecity...390#entry639682
...."they are all wrong; all these arguments have been shown to be wrong over and over; no serious non-theist thinkers give them any time or credence" Where do you see any claims about what I have done?....your whole response goes on like this. Red Herrings, Straw Men, Logical Fallacies; you've got them all. This is why you are a waste of time, and wasting your own proselitizing time.
http://www.longecity...420#entry639761
You are really one of the most offensive people I've ever wasted time on. Are you calling me a liar? Really? Sitting there in California you know I'm not in the middle of moving house? You lie, you smear, you misrepresent and you constantly accuse everyone else of the things you do yourself.
http://www.longecity...420#entry639881
OK I get the message; you are supposed to be a teacher of logic and you haven't been able to answer a single one of these points, so you hate me to the greatest degree that a love everybody christian can manage. (i.e. a lot) If you were a decent human being I would feel sorry for you and try to be nice but since I am ASD and care very deeply for the rules and honesty, I find it very hard to apply the psychological lessons I've learned; your case is extreme.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640437
Very noble and sensible, but look at the hate filled diatribes that follow your post. What I would like is a reasoned discussion of the topic where everybody follows the rules and logical points are met with logical analysis, but it isn't going to happen here; any attempt to challenge his dogmas is met with vitriolic eruptions of accusation and denial. My language may sometimes stray into the colourful but it isn't simple abuse and it does relate to the points being attacked, which are often childishly silly and deserve no leniency when they are put forward by a professional logician. He does not claim to be a civilian in this subject. He is a fully armed combatant, but instead of using his logical weapons he resorts to childish abuse and constant extreme breaches of the rules.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640439
The time and effort put into this suggests a dangerous level of obsession, (and too much time on your hands). I'm glad I don't live anywhere near you; I would feel the need of high level security. By the way, to save others from wasting time, the links in the above are just to where the quotes were taken from. They aren't answers to the points, obviously, since no answers were ever given.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640578
Well known experiments and theories with no connection to the existence of the Christian god. Such a conclusion would require exactly the same leap, already rejected, from the world of evidence and reason to a world of faith and evidence free presumption
http://www.longecity...450#entry641198
You're back to piling up rubbish and expecting it to turn into gold. It stays rubbish no matter how often you repeat it or how high you pile it. All of this nonsense has been shown to be rubbish over and over. There's no reason anyone should waste time presenting you with repeat arguments you will just ignore. If you choose to ignore the science and to believe creationist distortions instead, you're not going to find many followers on this forum, and I'll be surprised if anyone can be bothered picking all this nonsense apart and giving you the necessary biology lessons. Evolution is a demonstrable fact but if you choose to close your eyes that's just your problem. If you choose to believe it could only work with a divine hand pulling the strings, again, that's your problem and you're probably incorrigible. You've certainly demonstrated no ability to take in new information so far, or to change your views when the facts change. I suspect that, if you really are the teacher you claim to be, you know deep down inside that this stuff fails all the tests you would apply to students' work; you are suffering from a massive cognitive dissonance overload and taking it out on us.
http://www.longecity...450#entry641426
Poor old shadowhawk; doomed forever to go round and round posting the same futile debunked nonsense; posting the same again, and again, and again, and again...............you're persuading nobody, not even yourself.
http://www.longecity...450#entry641868
Other people may be confused by that last post of SH. It's from a different topic.(Gobligoop) The massive flaming capitals are, of course his, and not mine. It's a response to an enormous hate list he posted against me; he asked me to show where I had ever made a logical point and then, as usual, didn't like the example I produced. Does anyone else feel that his mental health is in doubt? Should we be encouraging this behaviour since it obviously disturbs him a great deal?
http://www.longecity...540#entry644710
You may not have noticed SH, but your deranged attacks on me, the enormous lists of my crimes that you have spent hours compiling, are what is actually derailing this topic, and all the other topics you have posted this stuff in. The scale of it suggests to me that it is derailing your life as well.
http://www.longecity...540#entry644758
That sounds extremely paranoid. Dark motive? Really?
http://www.longecity...540#entry644835
Are you dislexic? Should we be making allowances for the disordered posts? I'm quite experienced in reading work by a dislexic, and editing it into coherence.
That apart this is just more worthless abuse.
http://www.longecity...540#entry644960
Curious and rather sad that you think dislexia is an insult rather than an unfortunate problem. Not long ago I did some editing work on a dislexic's phd. (And before you say something silly, it passed without corrections being required.)
http://www.longecity...570#entry645123
f you could learn not to misrepresent what other people say, and start avoiding using a sneer whenever possible, it would be better for everyone.
"The religious don’t know trees move because of the wind? :) What a bigoted joke." This is clearly not a bigoted joke, but a comparison of early man's type of thinking with modern scientific thinking. You see bigotry everywhere. That is your problem not mine. As for denying a monopoly on wonder; perhaps you should reread some of your own posts.
http://www.longecity...570#entry646023
the fact that theists have devised greekish terms to divide their fantasies into different categories does not mean the categories have any real content. There is no reality beyond the physical. It is all made up. There are no ghosts/spirits/souls etc.
http://www.longecity...570#entry647074
What is this mountain of vapidity and vagueness meant to mean? It's certainly not evidence of anything except the tendency of religious folk to like mystical sounding emptiness,
http://www.longecity...570#entry647361
Do you imagine anyone reads these summaries, or is impressed by them? If your family and friends saw this they would be very concerned.
http://www.longecity...600#entry647494

NO ARGUMENTS, JUST NAME CALLING LOGICAL FALLACIES AND ATTEMPTED DERAILMENT OF TOPIC, “IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??”.

TO POST 602

http://www.longecity.../feature/bylawA

Edited by shadowhawk, 09 March 2014 - 12:43 AM.


#170 johnross47

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:13 PM

Where those inclined can fill up the topic with anything that comes to mind. The Topic is whatever comes to mind and whenever. It does not have to relate in any way to anything.

#171 shadowhawk

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 06:18 PM

IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??? topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
STHIRA, AD HOMININE ATTACKS, NAME CALLING, OFF TOPIC DERAILMENTS, VIOLATION OF THE FORUM RULES, LOGICAL FALLACIES.
Atheists can’t stand a rational free speech discussion of the issues.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forum Rules http://www.longecity...390#entry639554
Oct 9, 2013
The idea of God is passed genetically, God has been naturally selected.  The idea could also be a virus we catch that has different strains, eg, Hinduism,  Judaism, Baha'i...  The idea of God could also be part of Jung's collective unconscious.  Or whatever.  The idea of God has many manifestations, some of which may be too wild and far out for suburban Christian heads. ...
no one knows if God is real or God is not real
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry616774
Most of us (scientists, academicians, thinkers, artists) are trained to ignore Jesus people.  As best as we can we try to ignore you.  Dear God: Save Us From Your Followers.  But you're noisy, you're persistent, and you're annoying. ...
we don't believe the same fucked up schizophrenic wrathful shit you do....  Do you realize how crazy you appear?  Nope.  So rather than engage you in crazy, we ignore you, we let you go away: just go: just go: and just go: and just go away and believe whatever you'd like.  Go in peace, man: freedom OF religion also means freedom FROM religion. ...Your history is a bloodbath.  You've exiled, tortured, or killed those who won't adhere to your faith.  You've done it before, you'll probably do it again.  You'll exile, torture or kill we who don't find you pleasant or nice.  History repeats itself, and as sure as the sun rises your violent history will attempt to repeat.  Until then: go in peace, and we'll work to stop you from committing more violence.
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry618128
What I don't understand is the shame associated with the simple fact that we don't know if god exists or not.  Do humble puja and repeat ten thousand times: we don't know.  What's wrong with ignorance?  Amazing things exist within this universe of which we're ignorant.  Why then is ignorance of illogical, supernatural entities so shameful to religious people who must prove their gods exist or else all be damned?...
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623539
This is the better conversation to have, imho, rather than rehashing ad  nauseum the same ole religio-shiz.  We created mean, grandfatherly bearded sky god(s) and then dismantled them centuries ago.  As Nietzsche wrote "...not everyone has gotten the news..."...we know that we don't know if god exists.  We also know we don't know if other dimensions exist beyond these in which we're encased.  We don't know what happens beyond the speed of light, for example, but we calculate that time and space "cease to exist."  Past the speed of light is completely irrational to us -- like god -- but that doesn't necessarily mean new realities or dimensions cannot unfold past our reasoned limits.  But until we have evidence of "more" than what's in this universe then it's faith and the wild ass speculation of scifi.  Cosmology is fun!  It's a pity that religiosity infects it in the pop arena.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623606
Do tell us how "we are getting close"  God is coming soon?  Do you have direct communication with the Almighty?  Is He giving you a voice?
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623751
We see this reflected in you: you've been repeatedly shown you're mistaken in much of your copy and paste bold big-fonted words, and yet you keep shouting on and on in your threatening little charming cardboard cutout manner.  Stick around and keep proselytizing for Jesus -- you're great, ur amusing us!  Dance, little puppet for j-dolla bill.
http://www.longecity...120#entry625216
A few questions.  First, do you read responses?  If so do you understand what you've read?  Do you struggle with reading comprehension?... A few more questions.  Do you write?  Are you able to form your own thoughts and express them, or is it all just copy, paste, and videos of others' ideas?  Do you have thoughts on these matters you're able to communicate?
http://www.longecity...120#entry625294
Yeah, I agree he's a funny fellow.  Generally, I'm not too interested in religious people or thought, and I'm not quite sure why I keep posting stuff here.  SH is amusing, but I agree I'd like to see more original thought, and less of other people's ideas.  If I want to know what some Jesus channel darling has to say I guess I'd find it on my own.  He appears to be proselytizing for whatever reason,  who knows....
http://www.longecity...120#entry625428
...if we're talking about the Xtian god of SH, then I'm with you: it's a myth that we've outgrown.  It's dying a slow painful death, and we say good riddance.  Once upon a time this Xtian god was clearly useful to certain sections of the human population (mostly white, power-holding males) but today it's antiquated and in need of updates.
http://www.longecity...300#entry635499
Maybe god doesn't want us to believe in god.  Since god won't give us one clue or another, god wants us to be atheists.  God is like way too almighty to be acknowledged.  You know, like high school.  God is the really boss kid and too cool to nod a simple "Hi!" to the rest of us dorks straggling in the hallways of life. ...
http://www.longecity...330#entry638013
 If god sparked the big bang -- bully for you, god, thanks for our suffering little lives.  But what does god's existence or non-existence have to do with anyone's daily life since god doesn't care one way or another about ongoing communication?
http://www.longecity...360#entry638099
God: Now I shall appoint you, Shadowhawk, as my hawkingly shadowy voice.  On an internet forum about vitamins, thou shalt use giant, colored fonts to argue up my Being...
Shadowhawk:  thanks, God, I'll post a bunch of random YouTube polemics, repeat ad nauseum lists of the names and descriptions of logical fallacies ("I teach logic" you know), and then I'll copy and paste other dude's sentences about your glorious glory, etc, etc....
God: thou shalt do these things and more, Shadowhawk, since I'm too almightily cool for any of those human fuckwads on that tiresome nootropically obsessed site
http://www.longecity...360#entry638109
Of course there's evidence for Christianity: HIV.  According to yall ztians, God gives AIDS to people he doesn't like.  But like Sarah Silverman reminds -- when god gives you AIDS, it's an opportunity to make lemon-AIDS.
http://www.longecity...390#entry639590
Jerry Fallwell says:  "AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."
Thus, God's existence is proven
http://www.longecity...390#entry639596
Haha oh shiiit this is so messed up.  But I quote:
"God proved His love on the Cross. When Christ hung, and bled, and died, it was God saying to the world, 'I love you.'
Billy Graham
http://www.longecity...390#entry639598
Deuteronomy 23:1:  "No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
Durn, god, I don't know about you, god.  But that shit just doesn't sound like a decent way for you to be behaving, dear god.  God?  Well, god or however we're supposed to address You.  Your Youness.  Your Highly High & All Alliness.  Uppidy Upness, I mean, gosh god we don't even know how You would like us to address Your Youness since You won't say.  Do You like our names?  Do you, You? ...
But really it's a fucking insult to intelligence that the god-chase expressed so awfully in this thread continues ad nauseum.  Let's kick god the hell out forever.  Bye-bye god, fare thee well, god, and do come back if you ever feel like helping to relieve any of the suffering of your creatures.  Meanwhile, we sinful and hated little humans will stick to science and technology to solve our problems and heal our wounds
http://www.longecity...390#entry639618
A world without God would be a far better, friendlier and happier place....Kick out god, and nothing changes (since god doesn't exist anyway) and everything changes for the better for us: one example: the centuries-old burden of hatred amongst people fighting over whose god is coolest disappears.  Bye, god.  Maybe we can all relax and breathe again without all these god people shouting over our higher sensibilities....Kick out god, and we still adhere to the laws of the land and the moral codes taught to us by our societies and parents....
End the belief in god, and we could learn to have greater respect for planet Earth and all of its beautiful life.  Human life is special and cool, sure, but we ain't the center of the shit.  If all humans disappear, then all beliefs in god disappear right alongside them.....
Bye-bye, God.  Good riddance, and have fun being as non-existent as you've always been.
http://www.longecity...420#entry639870
Meanwhile, SH has friends who died from HIV.  I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your losses.  Honestly, sincerely.  In the same breath I'd also like to know if you believe as your Christian colleagues believe that god sent AIDS as a punishment not only to homosexuals, but god also is punishing the society that "permits" (haha such weird language) homosexuals?...
Dear Shadowhawk: did god send AIDS to punish people?

http://www.longecity...420#entry639876
SH's ztian god doesn't even rank in the top ten of today's most interesting and hip gods.  According to godchecker.com (pst: and that's using their patented GodRank™ technology) the angry old fart-knocker ztian god ain't even in the top 15....
Check out Raven! ...
All Shall Worship Now The Great God Raven!  Way more interesting...
http://www.longecity...420#entry639909
Haha!  Awesome!  I still think this thread could use a big ole slobby happy innocent healthy hug.  Imagine that!  A hug full of haters!  Hugging each other with stoic grit and determination hoping the entire "intimate" experience doesn't break down into godlessly heathenistically awful burning iches of sin.  And Hell!  To which love ALL shall burn in HELL for ETERNITY.  Exclamation point.... And here now behold, in the ancient halls of this newborn tech art of internet forums we have the mighty Shadowhawk compiling the world's finest arguments and videos for the Cheering of Christianization.  Breathtaking!  Oh!  Finely done, gentlemen, finely done!  Give that boy a brandy!  Give em a cigar!  What great art amongst such heartlessly cruel interlocutors, we clap our hands for you!  Cheer!  Oh!  Shadowhawk!  Magnificent!  What a treasure that you're compiling all this trash!  Kinda like the Walmart of Christianity.  Shop here for "Bravery" and turn down this aisle for "Wrath!". Boo-hoo no, not Christmas "Wreaths" but Christian WRATH!....Please entitle your monument to: (large caps, huge red font) Shadowhawk's Journey: From Trash To Wrath.  Your first book title!  Oh, totally do this, man.  Please self-publish all your work for Future Generations.  Exclamation points all around!
http://www.longecity...420#entry640001
Right on, man.  And trust me I think we're all being as gentle with this writer as possible.  Well.  Hmm.  Maybe sometimes lines get crossed over the thread -- smeared, scratched -- and it's hard to see out the window (so to speak since you're an artist).  Disrespectful and rude, awful language we've tapped here amongst us.  Is this healthy?  Tapping little violence.  Venting religious animosity on public forums -- is this good for society or not?  I don't know.  Maybe more information, more education, more quiet, reflective moments alone with these massively complex issues -- god, the universe, human ethics and behavior, historical tragedies -- maybe all would be healthier faced alone than internet shouting.  Maybe some venting is healthy.  Or are we just poking deep wounds?
http://www.longecity...420#entry640005
....That's why I asked if you know how to read.  Do you?  All of your dumping is your dumping, it's yours, it's right here.  The rest of us -- why are we bothering, we're bored & curious (?) -- we are merely doing our best to respond to this load of words, videos, deep drama you've spat down upon all....You have not given us evidence for god.  You've given us other people's ideas concerning why they believe god exists....In this thread and others you've repeatedly copied and pasted many logical fallacies, their names and descriptions.  Again, do you know how to read what you're pasting?...It's true that arguments are not evidence for God's existence.  God appearing to us (eg, like someone wrote above, a big moon face or something) that might work.
....If god exists, god will show itself.  Is it any of your business?  Have you ever considered that maybe god won't give you the evidence you need because god doesn't want you to know?  Since god isn't saying one way or another, the possibility that god exists but doesn't want you to know is equal to saying god exists and your sources contain evidence....Yes, you keep saying this over and over.  What evidence did you, Shadowhawk, bring forth that has not been addressed.  Please don't throw up more links & videos & fallacies & forum rule violations.  State is simple, plain language your evidence that god exists that we have not already answered here in this thread....

Yes, we tell you that you're stupid because you possibly are very stupid.  Stop being stupid, and we'll stop telling you you're being stupid....Or (and I doubt you're reading) a lighter way to think about you:  if you don't like having your beliefs laughed then you shouldn't have such funny beliefs

.Did you read all these books?  Again: can you read all these books?

Also up there you've quoted loads of my writing.  Some of it's really silly and meant to be silly.  Because I'm a human being, and human beings love absurdity.  We're messy, we're human, and I guess if god made me then god made me sometimes silly, too....Unless Satan Did It!  And you still have not answered: do you believe in Satan, Shadowhawk?  I think that's a relevant, on topic question given the ponderous nature of this collection of stuff here in this thread.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640514
And god says to me: You! sthira!  Don't there thumbing through the lonely planet guide down there on the lonely planet-- You Shall Partake In Humanity's Genetically Passed And Passed Ancient Curiosity With Humanity's Stupid People. The town idiot: what will he say next? -- he shall please you.  But you must feed him, so eat, Shadowhawk so you may keep the drama unfurling.  (although, eh, god we're read this book so many times before, we're bored, show us something new, dear god, so we may reaffirm our belief in you. (some of us kinda beg for that from you, god)
http://www.longecity...420#entry640525

FORUM RULES
http://www.longecity...390#entry639554

TO POST 453



#172 johnross47

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:45 PM

Where those inclined can fill up the topic with anything that comes to mind. The Topic is whatever comes to mind and whenever. It does not have to relate in any way to anything.

 


Where those inclined can fill up the topic with anything that comes to mind. The Topic is whatever comes to mind and whenever. It does not have to relate in any way to anything.

 

Where those inclined can fill up the topic with anything that comes to mind. The Topic is whatever comes to mind and whenever. It does not have to relate in any way to anything.

 

Where those inclined can fill up the topic with anything that comes to mind. The Topic is whatever comes to mind and whenever. It does not have to relate in any way to anything.

 

Where those inclined can fill up the topic with anything that comes to mind. The Topic is whatever comes to mind and whenever. It does not have to relate in any way to anything.

 

Where those inclined can fill up the topic with anything that comes to mind. The Topic is whatever comes to mind and whenever. It does not have to relate in any way to anything.

 

etc. etc. etc.



#173 shadowhawk

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:02 PM

 

Where those inclined can fill up the topic with anything that comes to mind. The Topic is whatever comes to mind and whenever. It does not have to relate in any way to anything.

 


Where those inclined can fill up the topic with anything that comes to mind. The Topic is whatever comes to mind and whenever. It does not have to relate in any way to anything.

 

Where those inclined can fill up the topic with anything that comes to mind. The Topic is whatever comes to mind and whenever. It does not have to relate in any way to anything.

 

Where those inclined can fill up the topic with anything that comes to mind. The Topic is whatever comes to mind and whenever. It does not have to relate in any way to anything.

 

Where those inclined can fill up the topic with anything that comes to mind. The Topic is whatever comes to mind and whenever. It does not have to relate in any way to anything.

 

Where those inclined can fill up the topic with anything that comes to mind. The Topic is whatever comes to mind and whenever. It does not have to relate in any way to anything.

 

 

etc. etc. etc.

 

You got it.



#174 Jeoshua

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:45 PM

I never though I'd have to say this but:
 

You're ruining the spam thread!







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