22 replies to this topic

[Mr Matsubayashi]

I have a prescription for modafinil (modalert) 100mg and have been trialing a 50mg dose in the mornings and some variations.

Initial reaction was great, I could function on 4-5 hours sleep as though I had the full 8. This effect lasted for 5 days. Taking modafinil after 2pm affected my sleep but did improve my afternoon performance. The general performance enhancement was noticeable (without the rigor of a longer trial I don't know how much was placebo).

After five days there was visible swelling under my eyes and I felt tired, more-so than normal. There was also a sore on the back right of my tongue, unsure if connected. I stopped modafinil immediately and fully recovered in two days.

Current stack is TULIP. (LEF CoQ10 PQQ 850nm laser)

I want to continue trialling modafinil, there are three ways I can think of to prevent/reduce side effects:

1) Minimize dosage
1.1) Powdered sublingual administration?
1.2) Dual dosing instead of single dosing per day?
1.3) Stick with at least 7 hours sleep (not ideal)?

2) Prevent enzymatic break down of modafinil
2.1) http://www.reddit.co...odes_of_action/

3) Control histamine levels through diet, supplementation
3.1) Remove significant histamine increasing food from diet?
3.2) Regular histamine metabolizing supplement?

The order in which i want to try things is as above. I will update this thread on my success / failings.

Has anyone else dealt with this problem or experienced intolerable modafinil side effects?

Edited by Mr Matsubayashi, 27 October 2013 - 07:47 AM.

[noos]

NoopMed uses loratadine
http://www.longecity...120#entry583540

[Mr Matsubayashi]

NoopMed uses loratadine
http://www.longecity...120#entry583540

One million likes to you good sir!

I might try this as the first solution

[Multicultural Harmony]

Loratidine is an interesting solution. Maybe also Zyrtec could work as well. Does that combo actually work?!? lol

I find it odd that many bona fide narcoleptics refuse to take / don't like modafinil.

I wouldn't take modafinil unless I actually had narcolepsy. Not a modafinil fan. To each his own.

Edited by Pitolisant, 12 November 2013 - 07:44 PM.

[Mr Matsubayashi]

I tried two days of 25mg sub-lingual with 10mg loratadine oral, by the end of the second day my tongue was sore all over! I stopped modafinil and recovered in three days.

Next I started 50mg oral with 10mg loratadine oral and so far (1 week) have been without side effect. I'll continue this for another week then remove loratadine.

Modafinil affects me in the following ways:

• Improved confidence 3/10
• Improved presence of mind in conversation3/10
• Very noticeable effect on sports performance 5/10
• I've felt irritated with people when they distract me from my work over the last three days. Work output has also increased. 3/10
• Reduced need for well structured sleep. Penalties from odd sleep/wake times are reduced. 4/10

I still need 8 hours of sleep. I suspect this is dose dependent.

[bkaz]

I think the problem with moda is too long a half-life, - it does interfere with sleep. Maybe not in the first day or two, but there seems to be a multi-day concentration build-up, even if I only take it in the morning. I am prone to insomnia anyway, & this makes it a lot worse. Saving on sleep is not a sustainable solution, - your brain will simply age much faster.
So, my solution is to take very low dose (15 mg) first thing in the morning, & potentiate it with shorter-acting stimulants later on: alcar, tea, couple puffs from e-cigarette in the afternoon. I am 51 & never smoked, but started nicotine by e-cig a month ago to improve focus: http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine
It works great for me, especially while on moda.
Anyone knows of a way to accelerate removal of moda from blood in the evening?
Another way to mitigate it is low-dose (1 mg works for me) ambien before bed. I don't think one can develop tolerance at this dose?

[TVO]

Maybe lower your dosage bkaz, also try melatonin instead of ambien.

[bkaz]

Lower than 1 mg ambien or 15 mg moda? I thought my dosage was the lowest in the world, but I am unusually sensitive to these things .
I've used 1 mg TR melatonin for ~20 years. It does nothing for sleep, but probably helps otherwise.
Thanks!

[TVO]

Yea thats a pretty low dose, but if its having intense effects then try 10mg or so. You could try adrafinil, it is released in smaller amounts throughout the day because the liver has to convert it into modafinil, so it might not hurt your sleep as bad. Also how is nicotine working out?

[bkaz]

I actually use 1/16 of pill:~12 mg. It's not intense, but stays in the blood too long. E-cig is great for my focus, &, at 2-3 puffs a day, shouldn't do any harm. Actually good for angiogenesis, I had some palpitations before, it's gone now. Maybe a coincidence.

[leftside]

I think the problem with moda is too long a half-life, - it does interfere with sleep. Maybe not in the first day or two, but there seems to be a multi-day concentration build-up, even if I only take it in the morning. I am prone to insomnia anyway, & this makes it a lot worse. Saving on sleep is not a sustainable solution, - your brain will simply age much faster.
So, my solution is to take very low dose (15 mg) first thing in the morning, & potentiate it with shorter-acting stimulants later on: alcar, tea, couple puffs from e-cigarette in the afternoon. I am 51 & never smoked, but started nicotine by e-cig a month ago to improve focus: http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine
It works great for me, especially while on moda.
Anyone knows of a way to accelerate removal of moda from blood in the evening?
Another way to mitigate it is low-dose (1 mg works for me) ambien before bed. I don't think one can develop tolerance at this dose?

Totally agree. If the half-life was half I'd love it. To take enough to actually notice it (say 125mg at 7am) I can still feel the bugger at 10pm.

[noos]

I actually use 1/16 of pill:~12 mg. It's not intense, but stays in the blood too long. E-cig is great for my focus, &, at 2-3 puffs a day, shouldn't do any harm. Actually good for angiogenesis, I had some palpitations before, it's gone now. Maybe a coincidence.

How do you cut in 16 parts? Are your pills larger than regular or use any cutter? I dont see how you get those tiny pieces of similar size without breaking into powder.

Edited by noos, 15 November 2013 - 08:57 PM.

[bkaz]

I actually use 1/16 of pill:~12 mg. It's not intense, but stays in the blood too long. E-cig is great for my focus, &, at 2-3 puffs a day, shouldn't do any harm. Actually good for angiogenesis, I had some palpitations before, it's gone now. Maybe a coincidence.

How do you cut in 16 parts? Are your pills larger than regular or use any cutter? I dont see how you get those tiny pieces of similar size without breaking into powder.

Regular pills, I use utility-knife blade, piece of cake.

[machete234]

1) Minimize dosage
1.1) Powdered sublingual administration?

I do this and it works for me, I take 1/4 of 150mg rmoda (waklert) under my toungue and let it dissolve for 10-15 minutes while lying in bed.
Then in the shower I let the water run in my mouth and I spit it all out.

To get rid of the side effects I can recommend armodafinil instead of modafinil because it will feel a lot cleaner (no headaches) but on the other hand you will get annoyed quicker or stressed out. (Thats why I often take ashwagandha with it)

[noos]

1) Minimize dosage
1.1) Powdered sublingual administration?

I do this and it works for me, I take 1/4 of 150mg rmoda (waklert) under my toungue and let it dissolve for 10-15 minutes while lying in bed.
Then in the shower I let the water run in my mouth and I spit it all out.

To get rid of the side effects I can recommend armodafinil instead of modafinil because it will feel a lot cleaner (no headaches) but on the other hand you will get annoyed quicker or stressed out. (Thats why I often take ashwagandha with it)

Why do you spit the rest? To avoid the fillers?

[machete234]

It tends to give me stomach problems or nausea.
Which I think happens when it gets into the stomach in the first place.

Armodafinil seems to work a bit better than normal modafinil sublingually.

Edited by machete234, 18 November 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[Mr Matsubayashi]

Three nuggets of awesomeness I've stumbled upon while trawling for Modafinil.

Not all brands of Modafinil may be the same.
http://www.longecity...6829-modafinil/

Advice on treating rashes caused by Modafinil
http://www.topix.com...CM08NI8LPLSISQ2

Advice on treating / preventing mouth sores when on Modafinil.
http://prettyill.com...viewthread/226/

[Mr Matsubayashi]

Continued with 50mg oral, 5mg loratadine, this worked fine. My tongue started being slightly sore though not as bad as when taking 25mg sub-lingual.

The tongue soreness gets me worried as the mechanism of SJS development is unknown so i immediately added some turmeric and black pepper powder to water, rinsed my mouth and drank. I did this for 2 days before I got my hands on Bio-Curcumin which I have been taking since. This has resolved the sore tongue issue.

There is also a minor sore throat issue that can be felt in the mornings that has not been resolved by Curcumin. It is mild enough to not bother me.

I stopped taking Loratadine and my eyes started to develop their dry tiredness again, pouches underneath them. I'm not sure what the mechanism is, histamine or the fact that Loratadine is slightly sedating and could be helping with my sleep while on Modafinil!!

Modafinil does affect my sleep schedule, I don't feel as tired by night time and I feel like I can fix my five hours sleep in the morning by popping the pill, which is a lie. At 50mg I still need my 8 hours.

Overall has Modafinil been a productivity booster? Yes. I need to fine tune this. In a dosing thread someone mentioned the dry eye issue and found 25mg worked best for him.

I need to spend a week clearing Modafinil out of my system and re-starting at 25mg. All other sups will be continued except Loratadine as it may not be needed with a 25mg dose.

Modafinil also reduces my appetite. I don't feel the strong urge of hunger like I used to. On a few occasions when I have been in the zone the trigger for a meal has been a small but noticeable reduction in energy, oh, I haven't had lunch.

All the bad sides start occurring after taking Modafinil for a while, sort of like an accumulation is occurring. If I don't take it for a while and start it is pure win. This suggests that its best application in my case is as needed.

Like all other users my piss smells like sulfur. I generally go two to three times a day. The second is after having modafinil in my system after 3 hours and it smells pretty rank. The third and first are OK.

I have started talking differently as well, noticeably I've become more direct even with what can be considered inflammatory comments. I feel like I have the faculty to deal with "what needs to be said". It does improve my confidence.

Edited by Mr Matsubayashi, 28 November 2013 - 12:08 PM.

[machete234]

Modafinil also reduces my appetite. I don't feel the strong urge of hunger like I used to. On a few occasions when I have been in the zone the trigger for a meal has been a small but noticeable reduction in energy, oh, I haven't had lunch.

It does that for me but the moment I start eating my food I realise that I am really hungry and I start eating my food like an animal (with great appetite and normal table manners but like really hungry ).

Continued with 50mg oral, 5mg loratadine, this worked fine. My tongue started being slightly sore though not as bad as when taking 25mg sub-lingual.

The tongue soreness gets me worried as the mechanism of SJS development is unknown so i immediately added some turmeric and black pepper powder to water, rinsed my mouth and drank. I did this for 2 days before I got my hands on Bio-Curcumin which I have been taking since. This has resolved the sore tongue issue.

Desloratadin does that on its own for me because I take it sporadically and an itching throat happens when I get off it, so what Im saying it could just be a rebound.

Edited by machete234, 28 November 2013 - 03:22 PM.

[Mr Matsubayashi]

One to two days after stopping modafinil I feel blunted, speech and thinking is slightly impaired. This could be tolerance or the long lived metabolites of modafinil still in my system causing impairment after the active molecule is gone. There are also symptoms of depression. Mood disorders are one of the potential sides of modafinil.

After a couple of shit days i recovered fully. This is the second time I experienced this when going cold turkey.

Edited by Mr Matsubayashi, 13 December 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[AscendantMind]

Hey Mr. Matsubayashi, appreciate the experiment log. I've been trying modafinil off and on as well, and look forward to seeing more of your results.

[Mr Matsubayashi]

A blood test taken while I was trialling modafinil came back with elevated ALT which can indicate liver damage. Alcoholism, Hep, drugs and strenuous exercise cause this to rise.

 

I had a followup test taken, I haven't been on modafinil for several months now so this might be indicative.

 

3 days on modafinil gave me puffy irritated eyes, this can be a symptom of liver damage.

 

It looks like modafinil gives me liver damage and mania (at least at first).

 

D:

 

 

Another user report of liver damage while on modafinil: http://www.longecity...liver-problems/

 

Possible report: http://www.longecity...rkidneys-toxic/

 

Perhaps the advice on this drugs should include before and a week after blood panels.

Edited by Mr Matsubayashi, 27 April 2014 - 08:19 AM.

[dijital]

In terms of tolerance: Modafinil is a potent CYP3A4-inducer, which is also its main route of breakdown. So a CYP3A4-inhibitor might be what you're looking for. Regarding side-effects: One of the main problems is reduced sleep quality and for me and many others, an increase in inner restlessness and anxiety towards the end of the effect. Pregabalin helps with both, taken in the evening a few hours before bedtime.