14 replies to this topic

[TheBatman]

I'm having some issues getting out of bed and staying busy during the day. I've just kinda been half assing everything because i don't have the energy to get things done. I've been diagnosed with ADHD but I feel like it's incredibly over-diagnosed so i'm not quite sure that I buy it.

Anyways I wake up tired and have to take little naps throughout the day just to stay awake, despite getting plenty of sleep (8-10 hrs a night). My mood has been a lot worse as well. Its like I have to put on a fake smile a lot of the time and I find it hard to laugh. I've also been avoiding my friends lately as well. It's just not like me..

I'm not really sure what I've got going on here though. It's either some sort of deficiency causing fatigue that leads to depression, or its depression causing fatigue. I've been very stressed lately as well.

currently I'm experimenting with the CILTEP stack, but it's only been two days at the recommended dosage, so I can't really contribute any of the fatigue to CILTEP. Other than CILTEP I occasionally take caffeine, piracetam, or adderall.

Any help/advise would be appreciated

[abelard lindsay]

What's in your CILTEP stack currently?

[TheBatman]

Nature's Plus Forskohlii. The capsule is 20% forskolin at 25 mg, so I took roughly 1/5 of the capsule to get 5 mg.

Nature's Herbs Artichoke extract. 100 mg artichoke extract - 375 mg artichoke. I took 2.

It was around 10 AM on an empty stomach with L-tyrosine. About a half an hour later I took 800 mg of ALCAR.

It seemed to give me more mental clarity and a mildly dopaminergic type motivation. My thoughts were more clear and my mood was somewhat lifted. This lasted until about 4 pm. Then I started to get a bit tired and decided to drink a sugar free red bull which made little improvement in my fatigue. At about 5 PM I started to get a bit irritable and my mood dropped considerably. It's a fatigued feeling that doesn't feel like sleep deprivation.

At my baseline mentality (2 weeks without adderall/nootropics) I'm already pretty fatigued and match most of the ADHD symptoms. So far the current stack has helped my fatigue the first half of the day, then creates more at the end of the day.


Edit: Also I forgot to mention that yesterday I made the mistake of taking 25 mg of forskolin with artichoke alone. No ALCAR no tyrosine. Wouldn't recommend it
The only reason I didn't wait a few days to retry CILTEP at the correct dosage was because I felt fine this morning. Maybe I should wait til next monday to continue CILTEP. What do you think?

Edited by TheBatman, 02 November 2013 - 04:00 AM.

[xks201]

Consider food allergies like dairy

[abelard lindsay]

Nature's Plus Forskohlii. The capsule is 20% forskolin at 25 mg, so I took roughly 1/5 of the capsule to get 5 mg.

Nature's Herbs Artichoke extract. 100 mg artichoke extract - 375 mg artichoke. I took 2.

It was around 10 AM on an empty stomach with L-tyrosine. About a half an hour later I took 800 mg of ALCAR.

It seemed to give me more mental clarity and a mildly dopaminergic type motivation. My thoughts were more clear and my mood was somewhat lifted. This lasted until about 4 pm. Then I started to get a bit tired and decided to drink a sugar free red bull which made little improvement in my fatigue. At about 5 PM I started to get a bit irritable and my mood dropped considerably. It's a fatigued feeling that doesn't feel like sleep deprivation.

At my baseline mentality (2 weeks without adderall/nootropics) I'm already pretty fatigued and match most of the ADHD symptoms. So far the current stack has helped my fatigue the first half of the day, then creates more at the end of the day.


Edit: Also I forgot to mention that yesterday I made the mistake of taking 25 mg of forskolin with artichoke alone. No ALCAR no tyrosine. Wouldn't recommend it
The only reason I didn't wait a few days to retry CILTEP at the correct dosage was because I felt fine this morning. Maybe I should wait til next monday to continue CILTEP. What do you think?

Today I took 500mg L-Tryptophan and 350mg NALT and it made the stack work great. I am thinking, based on my research with Uridine interactions that the stack increases uptake of L-tryptophan and L-Tyrosine which is increased by uridine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10900076

Using cultures established from the E14 rat raphe we show here that forskolin (10 microM) increases numbers of neurons expressing tryptophan hydroxylase (TpOH), the key enzyme of serotonin synthesis, and uptake of the false serotonergic transmitter 5, 7-dihydroxytryptamine (5,7-DHT). As shown by short-term treatments the effect is due to phenotype induction rather than survival. To begin to understand downstream or parallel signaling pathways required for the PKA-mediated induction of serotonergic markers, we have studied the putative implication of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and its receptor trk

[TheBatman]

Consider food allergies like dairy

Yeah I'll look into it this week and report back

[TheBatman]

Nature's Plus Forskohlii. The capsule is 20% forskolin at 25 mg, so I took roughly 1/5 of the capsule to get 5 mg.

Nature's Herbs Artichoke extract. 100 mg artichoke extract - 375 mg artichoke. I took 2.

It was around 10 AM on an empty stomach with L-tyrosine. About a half an hour later I took 800 mg of ALCAR.

It seemed to give me more mental clarity and a mildly dopaminergic type motivation. My thoughts were more clear and my mood was somewhat lifted. This lasted until about 4 pm. Then I started to get a bit tired and decided to drink a sugar free red bull which made little improvement in my fatigue. At about 5 PM I started to get a bit irritable and my mood dropped considerably. It's a fatigued feeling that doesn't feel like sleep deprivation.

At my baseline mentality (2 weeks without adderall/nootropics) I'm already pretty fatigued and match most of the ADHD symptoms. So far the current stack has helped my fatigue the first half of the day, then creates more at the end of the day.


Edit: Also I forgot to mention that yesterday I made the mistake of taking 25 mg of forskolin with artichoke alone. No ALCAR no tyrosine. Wouldn't recommend it
The only reason I didn't wait a few days to retry CILTEP at the correct dosage was because I felt fine this morning. Maybe I should wait til next monday to continue CILTEP. What do you think?

Today I took 500mg L-Tryptophan and 350mg NALT and it made the stack work great. I am thinking, based on my research with Uridine interactions that the stack increases uptake of L-tryptophan and L-Tyrosine which is increased by uridine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10900076

Using cultures established from the E14 rat raphe we show here that forskolin (10 microM) increases numbers of neurons expressing tryptophan hydroxylase (TpOH), the key enzyme of serotonin synthesis, and uptake of the false serotonergic transmitter 5, 7-dihydroxytryptamine (5,7-DHT). As shown by short-term treatments the effect is due to phenotype induction rather than survival. To begin to understand downstream or parallel signaling pathways required for the PKA-mediated induction of serotonergic markers, we have studied the putative implication of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and its receptor trk

Did you take them at the same time? I want to say i've read something about tryptophan and tyrosine competing for absorption, but I can't remember for sure.


I'll give it a try this next monday though!

[Luminosity]

It would help if you would post your age, height, weight, typical diet of one to three days (more is better) any use of substances, tobacco, etc. It would help to know your activities, exercise, occupation, routine. Any other supplements besides the ones listed, and health and personal history. Whatever you feel like sharing but the physical stuff helps a lot.

Caffiene uses up tomorrow's energy today. I would try to cut back. Some things, like green tea, have a little caffeine but are beneficial. Take green tea hot and plain. I think going to a therapist would be a good idea. Generally, Ph.D's are better, although half of them are no good. PsychologyToday.Org has detailed lists of therapists.

[Dreamy]

You might have a sleep disorder. Sleeping 8-10 hours a night + still needing naps throughout the day indicates that there maybe something off with your sleep. Maybe look into getting a sleep study done. When you fall asleep do you immediately start dreaming and dream the entire night?

[TheBatman]

It would help if you would post your age, height, weight, typical diet of one to three days (more is better) any use of substances, tobacco, etc. It would help to know your activities, exercise, occupation, routine. Any other supplements besides the ones listed, and health and personal history. Whatever you feel like sharing but the physical stuff helps a lot.

Caffiene uses up tomorrow's energy today. I would try to cut back. Some things, like green tea, have a little caffeine but are beneficial. Take green tea hot and plain. I think going to a therapist would be a good idea. Generally, Ph.D's are better, although half of them are no good. PsychologyToday.Org has detailed lists of therapists.

145 Ibs,
6 ft. tall,
18 yrs old

Typical diet is very balanced between various carbs, protein, and fats.

I haven't been exercising as much as I should, but I'm not new to the gym by any means.

Caffeine has been a last resort - along with adderall, piracetam, and ALCAR.

Therapy is on the way, but everything going on with me right now screams chemical imbalance. I feel like therapy is mostly just good for coping with stuff though, rather than treating the problem - which i'll expand on in the post below. Money may also be a problem as far as a Ph.D goes.

[TheBatman]

You might have a sleep disorder. Sleeping 8-10 hours a night + still needing naps throughout the day indicates that there maybe something off with your sleep. Maybe look into getting a sleep study done. When you fall asleep do you immediately start dreaming and dream the entire night?

I make damn sure I get enough sleep the night before because my mood is already very low. So I might just be attributing mood issues with sleep deprivation. I also don't even want to get out of the bed at all in the morning so..

BTW I do dream ALOT.

[TheBatman]

So today I came across a disorder related to the production of endorphins and I think there might be something to it.

This depression of mine has kind of come and gone unexpectedly in month-long periods. It has been similar to what you would find in a bi-polar SAD patient or even a ADHD over the past couple years. Especially the last month I've been socially withdrawn and in the absolute worst mood ever. When people tell jokes around me or something funny is going on, I just can't seem to laugh even if I want to. Every smile on my face, for the most of these few months, has been faked. My memory is horrible and I do all that I can to not snap at others. When this all first started, I came across these forums and started using nootropics like crazy in hopes to correct any sort of chemical imbalance. I've used many supplements and prescription drugs that target specific neurotransmitters including acetylcholine, dopamine, serotonin, GABA, oxytocin, norepinepherine, testosterone basically you name it, I've tried it - with little to no success. Every time I've ever had a doctor run tests on my blood for deficiencies they come out fine. Apparently my body is healthy and ok, but various symptoms I have prove otherwise.

Interestingly enough the only time I feel like socializing with ANYONE is after an exercise, run, or any other endorphin related activity. All my mood problems go away, my ability to laugh comes rushing back, and my life is ok for a few hours - then its gone. It's like a light switch and I can tell immediately when it leaves, I'll try to laugh and it will sting. Seriously,sting.

The only time over the past few months actually been truly happy was when I got my wisdom teeth out and for the next few weeks afterwards. For most people getting their wisdom teeth out is a shitty situation, but I loved it. The strange thing is, I only wanted to hang out with friends the whole time. Like my parents could not keep me in the house, which is very unusual for me. Its was awesome - like whatever fog I had going on was lifted. I was with my friends everyday of the week even staying the night and stuff. Looking back now though I think I know why - the doctor prescribed hydrocodone. Instead of making me drowsy, it was like being awake from a deep sleep. I can't help but think endorphins played a major role.

My guess is that there are a few types of endorphins that are vital for good mood and well being for the normal lows throughout the day. Perhaps my depression is correlated with low endorphin production or response. I mean it may not be very common, but it makes more sense to me then the whole "serotonin imbalance" theory that is going around these days.

Edited by TheBatman, 05 November 2013 - 03:25 AM.

[TheBatman]

Just found this http://www.wisegeek....-deficiency.htm to sort of explain what I was thinking

[Dreamy]

After reading your last response, I really think you might have a sleep disorder. I have narcolepsy and had/have the same symptoms as you. The memory issues, dreaming all night, not wanting to get up in the morning, sleeping over 8 hours a night and still being exhausted and having to nap through the day, and low mood due to sleep deprivation. Undiagnosed sleep disorders have the same symptoms as ADHD. How long have you had this problem and how do you feel when you take adderall or caffeine?

Edited by Dreamy, 05 November 2013 - 06:05 AM.

[Dreamy]

Reading about endorphin deficiency disorder was interesting; you may be on to something with the hydrocodone connection. Hope you find out what's going on, good luck!