66 replies to this topic

[Trippy 1]

Thanks again for the comprehensive response. I'll be introducing them slowly to see how I react to each one. Hopefully it will make the withdrawal easier. I'm still tapering down at the moment. Would any of them interact with the phenibut if I took them while tapering?

They should have an additive effect to the phenibut, allowing you to take less and taper down quicker while feeling less strung out. The kava might have some potential synergy beyond the additive effect but probably not.

I just tried 280mg Kavalactones, 300mg Cyranos and 475mg of Gotu Kola last night to see if the stack felt a little overboard on the GABA, was very pleasant and comfortable, had some amazing sleep. No crash or groggy feeling, Ill have my hands on some picamilon in 4-5 hours and Ill try the stack with that to see what the combined effects are.

Awesome I would like to hear how the picamilon treats you. I have some and really enjoy the effects so far.


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[Trippy 1]

Well I made the mistake of taking my preworkout supplement (contains caffeine) today and my symptoms heightened like crazy. I'll make sure to avoid stimulants from here on.


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[Trippy 1]

My taper is down to 2 grams now and I'm doing really well. I've only had a few uncomfortable moments that take place about 24 hours after my last dosage. Hard to breathe, tingly fingers, and nervous energy. But all in all it hasn't been bad so far. I haven't struggled with sleep at all yet.


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[Trippy 1]

Down to 1.5 grams without using anything except picamilon during the day and ambien for some sleep.


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[thomasthomas]

I would just like to re-enforce the idea that people should stay away from phenibut.

I took 1 500mg pill the last week, and I immediately felt depressed the following evening. This depression
lasted about three days. I haven't felt so depressed in, well, years.

It may work for some people, but I can't recommend it at all. I use Picamillon two or three nights
per week without any problems whatsoever. No depression, no side-effects, nothing. Helps me relax
and sleep when I need it. Use that instead.

[Trippy 1]

I would just like to re-enforce the idea that people should stay away from phenibut.

I took 1 500mg pill the last week, and I immediately felt depressed the following evening. This depression
lasted about three days. I haven't felt so depressed in, well, years.

It may work for some people, but I can't recommend it at all. I use Picamillon two or three nights
per week without any problems whatsoever. No depression, no side-effects, nothing. Helps me relax
and sleep when I need it. Use that instead.

One night might be a little placebo. But that's just my opinion. I agree though, it's best to stay away from it. Especially if you have trouble with moderation.


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I would just like to re-enforce the idea that people should stay away from phenibut.

I took 1 500mg pill the last week, and I immediately felt depressed the following evening. This depression
lasted about three days. I haven't felt so depressed in, well, years.

It may work for some people, but I can't recommend it at all. I use Picamillon two or three nights
per week without any problems whatsoever. No depression, no side-effects, nothing. Helps me relax
and sleep when I need it. Use that instead.

One night might be a little placebo. But that's just my opinion. I agree though, it's best to stay away from it. Especially if you have trouble with moderation.


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[Trippy 1]

Down to 1 gram now. Only problem is disrupted sleep. Other than that anxiety is a pretty mild symptom. I was thinking about using a product called relax-all by MRM for my final 500mg taper. Any experience/opinions with the product. I couldn't post a picture of the ingredient label.


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[Dizzon]

Down to 1 gram now. Only problem is disrupted sleep. Other than that anxiety is a pretty mild symptom. I was thinking about using a product called relax-all by MRM for my final 500mg taper. Any experience/opinions with the product. I couldn't post a picture of the ingredient label.


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Well since relax-all has phenibut and valerian (rechecked valerain and it has addictive properties and isn't that helpful in the first place) I would say you're shooting yourself in the foot there. bad product to take.

The magnolia bark is a good supplement but the honokiol levels are way too low, same with the magnolol. Same with the theanine.

Calcium and magnesium sources aren't even good, Magnesium oxide and calcium carbonate are bottom of the barrel.

No idea about the jujube.

All in all, probably the worst option mentioned in this thread.

[Trippy 1]

Alright well I'm all out of just Phenibut until Monday evening. I only have the relax all which has 500mg in it. Should I just start detox now? I'm down to 1gram.


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[Trippy 1]

How do you guys feel about propanolol (beta blocker) for physical w/d symptoms like shakes/pressure in chest


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[Trippy 1]

Since I hate it when withdrawal threads get started then the OP just vanishes I thought I would keep updating if you guys are curious. It's been about 30 hours since my last 600mg taper and I feel good. Tapering is definitely the way to go. I heard peak w/d for phenibut is around 72hrs. though?


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[fql]

Hey Trippy, I might be going through a mild Phenibut withdraw too. Last night I had issues sleeping because of high blood pressure and felt heated up with chest tightening all day. I ended up taking melatonin and .5 grams of Phenibut to sleep. At first I though it was because I took pseudo-ephedrine and my preworkout, but it's nothing out of the usual, plus it was a lower dose than normal. So I'm suspecting it was Phenibut. I usually kept it to 1.5 grams less than twice a week. However, I took Phenibut twice a week and then 2.5 grams (the most ever) to experiment before this episode. Then five days off Phenibut I had this episode. I guess I peaked on the fifth day and taking ephedrine and preworkout amplified it. I felt terrible all day.
So far today, I've taken no Phenibut I've felt okay with slight tightening in my chest. But I'm hoping it doesn't peak days later.
My question is, is this what you felt? It sucks... at least I should be fine now that I've identified the problem.

Edited by fql, 03 December 2013 - 10:53 PM.

[Trippy 1]

Hey Trippy, I might be going through a mild Phenibut withdraw too. Last night I had issues sleeping because of high blood pressure and felt heated up with chest tightening all day. I ended up taking melatonin and .5 grams of Phenibut to sleep. At first I though it was because I took pseudo-ephedrine and my preworkout, but it's nothing out of the usual, plus it was a lower dose than normal. So I'm suspecting it was Phenibut. I usually kept it to 1.5 grams less than twice a week. However, I took Phenibut twice a week and then 2.5 grams (the most ever) to experiment before this episode. Then five days off Phenibut I had this episode. I guess I peaked on the fifth day and taking ephedrine and preworkout amplified it. I felt terrible all day.
So far today, I've taken no Phenibut I've felt okay with slight tightening in my chest. But I'm hoping it doesn't peak days later.
My question is, is this what you felt? It sucks... at least I should be fine now that I've identified the problem.

Fql,
Yes the chest tightening is one of the worst symptoms I felt. That and the higher height rate. It sounds like you were definitely going through phenibut withdrawal. I would reccomend tapering down like I did. I'm not fully recovered yet but well on my way. Your 3rd day will probably be your worst.


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[fql]

I'm not going to taper, but I will take a reduced dosage if symptoms start showing. And no stims for me besides a lower than normal intake of caffeine. Man I've became Phenibut's bitch. I'm pretty surprised to be honest.

[Trippy 1]

Ya the stuff is no joke. I'm sorry to hear your havig bad symptoms. I lowered my dosage over the span of one week before going cold turkey. My dosage was way higher than yours too (5g). Good luck man, keep us updated. I try to work out for a couple hours each day and lift some heavy weights to help with sleep during withdrawal. Insomnia is the worst aspect hands down.


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[fql]

Ya the stuff is no joke. I'm sorry to hear your havig bad symptoms. I lowered my dosage over the span of one week before going cold turkey. My dosage was way higher than yours too (5g). Good luck man, keep us updated. I try to work out for a couple hours each day and lift some heavy weights to help with sleep during withdrawal. Insomnia is the worst aspect hands down.


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I feel bad for you. If my symptoms were any worst yesterday I wouldn't have been able to function. Like goddamn, even with responsive use it's easy to have withdraws.

[Trippy 1]

I'm on my 2nd day without it and I'm cool so far, so don't feel bad for me. Definitely makes work/college harder though.


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Edited by Trippy 1, 03 December 2013 - 11:54 PM.

[BioFreak]

Important for you to know is anything that works on gaba receptors - no matter which ones - will result in quick adaptation of the body reducing gaba receptors and decreasing gaba production. So you would just get addicted to benzos while getting off phenibut. Does it make sense to taper off heroine with meth? No it does not, either.
Because picamilon simply supplies the brain with exogenous gaba directly. This means the same problem as with benzos or phenibut, the gaba system will shut down.

Listen, you do not want to replace one substance acting on gaba receptors with another, because you will just be addicted to the other substance. You need to tamper down on gaba acting substances COMPLETELY. If you do that, and only if you do THAT, your brain will adapt by increasing gaba receptors and production again. Control your tampering by slowing down if it gets to hard, or staying at a certain dose for some time before lowering it again. If it is to hard, decrease in smaller steps. Use Bacopa and theanine to help you.

did you study this thread? http://www.longecity...ly-effectively/

Again falls victim to the same oversimplification that scienceguy did. Just because something is a GABA agonist does NOT mean it's use will innately come with GABA receptor downregulation and tolerance/addiction/withdrawal. You should read the thread that you posted to better. Scienceguy gets berated for oversimplifying his 'GABA agonist' theory. It just doesn't hold up to reality.

For example here are 2 studies showing the GABA receptor agonist picamilon restoring GABA receptor functioning in rats.

The influence of picamilon and piracetam on the quantitative changes in the central GABA(A) macromolecular receptor complexes in the rat brain has been investigated under the experimental conditions of hypokinesia. It was found that the injection of these nootropes under the conditions of 7-day hypokinesia and 4-day recovery period did not show visible changes in the amount of active GABA(A) receptors. However, the injection of picamilon under the conditions of 15-day hypokinesia and 8-day recovery period showed a tendency to restoration of the number of active GABA(A) receptors.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20821973

The influence of a 15-day hypokinesia on the development of anxiety-depression state and quantitative changes in the central GABA-A macromolecular receptor complexes in the rat brain has been investigated under conditions of the despair (forced swim) test. Simultaneously, the effects of well-known nootropic drugs picamilon and piracetam on the dynamics of state parameters in the experimental animals have been evaluated. It was found that hypokinesia led to the development of anxiety and depression accompanied by reduction in the amount of active GABA-A receptors. The injections of piracetam and picamilon showed a tendency to restoration of the number of active GABA-A receptors and to normalization of the behavioral parameters.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16845932

Do you have any proof to back your claims? I take Lemon balm, California Poppy, Ashwagandha, Gotu Kola, Kava daily, (all mentiioned as addictive GABA agonists in scienceguy's thread) sometimes multiple times a day (for ash and gotu). Sometimes I go traveling and leave all supplements behind for a week or 2. Absolutely no effects of withdrawals or increased anxiety. None whatsoever. Anything, from tea to cheezeburgers to cannabis can be habit-forming and 'addicting' for the odd individual with little self restraint, but these substances do not come with chemical dependence. Maybe the California poppy does and shouldn't be taken by ex-opiate addicts, don't know enough about it, but the rest are completely non-addictive and I've felt no 'withdrawals' from cali poppy. Lol Im still waiting to see a gotu kola addict or a lemon balm addict.

I must confess that I haven't researched the gaba sub types yet.

Thanks for the studies. I would really like to know how picamilon actually enhances regeneration of gaba-a receptors? Could it be the niacin? It makes no sense to me that extra gaba restores gaba receptors.

Why they don't affect you? Well, maybe these substances, even combined, have only a very low effect on gaba receptors, and those substances benefit you by other means primarily. So when you stop taking them, you don't feel withdrawal effects because they simply don't have the power to suppress the gaba system enough. From what I know is phenibut the strongest gaba agonist out there in supplement from. But an already suppressed gaba system would certainly not benefit from further gaba agonism, best case, not slow down it's regeneration(which for picamilon may not be the case judging by the studies you posted).

So this is just a theory, and no I don't have evidence to back it up right now. I might find some, but I don't have the time right now. Sorry. Feel free to post more evidence for your view though, can't wait to learn more.

[Trippy 1]

Very interesting stuff. I need to touch up on my research as well. Thanks again for the great information and help you guys. Day 3 and I'm doing just fine.


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[Trippy 1]

Hey guys, this will be my 3rd night cold turkey. I don't take anything during the day because my daytime symptoms aren't bad. But, the last 2 nights I have taken 1mg xanax to get to sleep. Today I am feeling a little better so I'll probably keep it at .5mg

My question is will I get dependant on the xanax if I use it for 7 days MAX. I have no tolerance and this is my first time using benzos. I don't want to replace one addiction for another.


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[protoject]

Hi, so i read most of the first page, then skimmed mostly the rest.
My opinion is :
don't take gaba agonists like Xanax nor others because they are likely to leave more problems. You don't want to confound one withdrawal with another.

Whoever said gabapentin and pregabalin is right. Pregabalin will save that ass from gabaergic withdrawals. However you said you can't get pregabalin, so go to a clinic and get some Gabapentin. It should be able to help the night-time side of things.

It's of my opinion that picamilon and all that other junk mentioned won't do you anything. But if you think it will, go ahead and try it , all the power to you..

I base my opinions on the following:

-When I took short-acting benzos for my phenibut withdrawal, they just compounded everything by giving me worse dependence and withdrawals that were just as hard- or maybe even harder- to get over.

-When I've taken gabapentin and pregabalin, I didn't experience any withdrawal from them whatsoever, but they definitely helped me to buffer out any gabaergic withdrawals and helped me to sleep. Depending on the dosage you actually need, there may be a downside, or there may not be one. For me at times I've been able to get away with low doses to help me out.. and then in other "emergency" type situations I took higher dosages,.. if it's strong enough, it has some negative effect on daytime functioning. (but nothing like the feeling of a benzo withdrawal).

-kavakava - this stuff made me feel really wierd overall, (sometimes helped me sleep and sometimes really just worseneed the entire situation), and I'm not sure if it's because of kava itself, but I suspect that it may be because I got this from ktbotanicals, and I believe that the root they offer is NOT from the part of the plant that is NOT liver-toxic. Otherwise, kava might be a good staple if you can get a good source (though I cant guarantee this as I dont have the experience), I think it's pretty cheap for large amounts.

Theanine- I think its effect on the brain is too complex but everyone says it's gabaergic, I wholeheartedly disagree on a subjective level. Also this has never in my life helped me to sleep, it always made sleep worse, and it never made me feel calm. Though it might be pretty harmless in the long run.

By the way, about pregabalin and gabapentin, people say that you develop tolerance fast etc, I think you'd really be fine, you're only using it for a week tops and it's not like you have to skyrocket the dose to an ultra dose off the bat. (that's much better said for pregabalin than gabapentin, mind you)

[Trippy 1]

Hi, so i read most of the first page, then skimmed mostly the rest.
My opinion is :
don't take gaba agonists like Xanax nor others because they are likely to leave more problems. You don't want to confound one withdrawal with another.

Whoever said gabapentin and pregabalin is right. Pregabalin will save that ass from gabaergic withdrawals. However you said you can't get pregabalin, so go to a clinic and get some Gabapentin. It should be able to help the night-time side of things.

It's of my opinion that picamilon and all that other junk mentioned won't do you anything. But if you think it will, go ahead and try it , all the power to you..

I base my opinions on the following:

-When I took short-acting benzos for my phenibut withdrawal, they just compounded everything by giving me worse dependence and withdrawals that were just as hard- or maybe even harder- to get over.

-When I've taken gabapentin and pregabalin, I didn't experience any withdrawal from them whatsoever, but they definitely helped me to buffer out any gabaergic withdrawals and helped me to sleep. Depending on the dosage you actually need, there may be a downside, or there may not be one. For me at times I've been able to get away with low doses to help me out.. and then in other "emergency" type situations I took higher dosages,.. if it's strong enough, it has some negative effect on daytime functioning. (but nothing like the feeling of a benzo withdrawal).

-kavakava - this stuff made me feel really wierd overall, (sometimes helped me sleep and sometimes really just worseneed the entire situation), and I'm not sure if it's because of kava itself, but I suspect that it may be because I got this from ktbotanicals, and I believe that the root they offer is NOT from the part of the plant that is NOT liver-toxic. Otherwise, kava might be a good staple if you can get a good source (though I cant guarantee this as I dont have the experience), I think it's pretty cheap for large amounts.

Theanine- I think its effect on the brain is too complex but everyone says it's gabaergic, I wholeheartedly disagree on a subjective level. Also this has never in my life helped me to sleep, it always made sleep worse, and it never made me feel calm. Though it might be pretty harmless in the long run.

By the way, about pregabalin and gabapentin, people say that you develop tolerance fast etc, I think you'd really be fine, you're only using it for a week tops and it's not like you have to skyrocket the dose to an ultra dose off the bat. (that's much better said for pregabalin than gabapentin, mind you)

Protoject,
Thanks man I appreciate your reply. I've taken xanax the past 3 nights, only 0.5mg last night, but I think you're right about cutting off. I'm on my 4th day cold turkey right now. The symptoms are definitely still present but wry bearable during the day time. The night time is the only time I get bad withdrawal effects.

Believe it or not the beta blocker propanolol helps tremendously for the physical side effects. Rapid heart beat, shakes, etc. all are almost unnoticeable when I take the propanolol.

I tried the theanine, kava, picamilon, etc. and didn't notice much of a benefit. Might as well drop them altogether.

Do you think at this point the pregabalin would still be a good idea? I'm on day 4. Would I straight up tell the I'm going through phenibut withdrawal to get it at a clinic?

Thanks man


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[Trippy 1]

I actually feel pretty normal today except for Chet tightness


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[protoject]

TLDR: get the pregabalin if you're too deep in the withdrawal and absolutely need a pharmacological option to deal with it,
but if you're getting better: don't worry about adding anything else to make things more complicated. Just ride it out and it'll be over soon. If you do go for pregabalin, personally I wouldn't tell them I'm going through a phenibut withdrawal, I'd just say I lost my perscription [if I really needed it that badly], and that I don't need a full perscription's worth, perhaps just a week's worth of it before I visited my doctor over in BumFukNoWheresVille 50 miles away, but it's up to you.
--------------------
Hmm, well propanolol is something I've always wanted to try but I've heard it can worsen or cause insomnia quite a bit, which I'm guessing you'd want to avoid in this case. (of course if you find it's working for you... I'm happy).

I do think pregabalin is a good phenibut withdrawal option, probably the best. (some say baclofen is, as it's a gaba-b agonist, but I've actually noticed more issues on baclofen than pregabalin, such as mood swings and possible withdrawal.). (Still baclofen was pretty easy to come off of when it was a low dose, so if it'd help then it might be an option).

The reason I think pregabalin is a good option is because as far as I know it doesn't directly agonize gaba-b nor gaba-a receptors, and again I didn't experience a withdrawal from pregabalin. It also is able to relieve some physical anxiety symptoms during the day, even if you took it at night. If you have to be mentally sharp tho im not sure if I'd recommend this one. If you are using it especially for just the sleep aspect of things, being able to feel better at night so you can sleep, I think it's the best option. While the option for sleep initiation may be a low dose of trazodone such as 50mg, good combo.

I'll be honest, I'm not super aware of the entire pharmacology of pregabalin other than that it's a calcium channel blocker and may lower levels of monoamines as well as synaptogenesis and glutamatergic activity in the brain, but although I have never seen anything indicating that it agonizes or stimulates any gaba receptors, oddly it does actually feel like a gaba-b agonist, except, again, without the withdrawal, and also if you're lucky and can get a sweet spot dose, then perhaps mostly none of the negatives.. The feeling on this is a lot warmer and you can easily pass into a deep sleep; it's proven to enhance Slow Wave Sleep

At this point I'm not sure what to say because, it seems you've tapered down to a good low level of phenibut, and I know the withdrawal will feel supremely shitty. Especially the being "hyper vigilante depressed not being able to sleep at all for days" bit. But I think it's safe to say that it will only last for so long and that you don't want to cause many more problems by adding more and more drugs into the mix and causing more and more withdrawal reactions. I'm actually worried about the fact that you took xanax... though maybe you're one of those people who won't really get an adverse reaction from taking it for such short of a time and going off of it. But yeah I really do think pregabalin would be the ticket here, trumps all the other drugs IMO because of the reasons I already stated, and if you have started any kind of xanax withdrawal, then it will trump that too. (sorry guys, I know i probably sound ridiculous saying things like that taking xanax for such a short time would cause any withdrawal, but that kind of thing happens to me acutely so i cant help but be concerned)..

Caveat: I'm just a guy, not a doctor. None of this can be construed as medical advice, as it is not. But I'm being honest with you based on my individual experience with gabaergic withdrawals. (phenibut, lorazepam, etc)

Edited by protoject, 06 December 2013 - 05:47 AM.

[Trippy 1]

I'm totally on board with everything you just said. During the day I actually don't feel all that bad. It's just during the night when I know that I won't be able to wind down that I panic and get all depressed. That's when the physical symptoms become very evident as well. My ears pound against my pillow and I'm very restless at nights. I think tonight might be worst night for sleep issues (day 4) at least that's what people reported. I'm going to take .25mg xanax as sort of a "taper" dosage to get some sleep. Day 1 and 2 I took 1mg and day 3 I took .5mg so it's moving in the right direction.

I'm not sure if simply saying I lost my prescription will be enough to get a pregabalin script though, do you? I was thinking there might be a better route? Doctor or psychologist?


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[protoject]

Yeah, there probably is a better route. Perhaps if you can be completely honest and your doctor somehow agrees with your course of action. You will most likely have to see the psychiatrist. This all may take time [too much time and they might not see it as an emergency]. However I think they will have their own ideas about it. I find for me personally going to the doctor I have to position myself in a way to get the med I'm going for, and to get it now- sometimes that's been with straight up honesty and other times not. In the case of pregabalin, I believe in the USA it's a schedule 4 or 5 drug because it's seen as having "abuse potential", so if you ask for it they may see it as drug seeking behavior. Gabapentin might be a lot easier to get, though I think pregabalin is superior to it. I know gabapentin is perscribed for seizures sometimes, and gabapentin and pregabalin are perscribed for nerve pain.

[Trippy 1]

Ya I looked and it said that abuse can't be ruled out. I'm at the point where I think I have a good handle on the withdrawal. I got some sleep last night and only took .25mg xanax. I plan on taking .125mg tonight then cutting off.

Have you been through phenibut withdrawal before? What day did you start feeling better? This is day 5 for me.


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[Trippy 1]

Day 6 - even if no one is reading this I'm sure someone might search for this in the future. Last night my sleep still wasn't very good. I woke up at least 4 times and slept for 5 and a half hours. But I didn't take any xanax and the only negative symptom I'm still experiencing (insomnia). So overall, for the crazy amounts of phenibut I was taking.... Well, it wasn't even that bad. As long as you know what you're going through and prepare yourself/don't freak out you can make it just fine. Thanks again for everyone that posted. I hope today is good and that I can get my sleep patterns back in line.


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[Sunwind]

I've been feeling an intense fear all week, very heightened anxiety even for myself as a social phobic, I've mostly been lying in bed all week because when I did get up I just had no energy to do anything, and I was even scared of speaking to family members. I have only been taking 2g phenibut 2-3 days per week, and no more than that as more makes me nauseas and vomit - anyway it occured to me yesterday that it must be the phenibut causing this. I haven't had any for a few days now and it's still hell. I'm surely on the back end of this so I'm not going to take any more and try to taper - I have access to diazepam but won't be able to get it until tomorrow, I could have got it on thursday but I didn't realize what was happening or it would be so bad.

Other symptoms; rapid heartbeat - too scared to check my BP or actual pulse rate cause I would just worry myself more and panic.
Disturbed sleep, I could only sleep for 3-4 hours and then wake up, night sweats, severe depression / loss of motivation, suicidal ideations.

Now that I recognize these symptoms, I realize I've been through this once before already without realizing it was phenibut or anything special, I just thought I was in a really shitty slump.

I've got picamilon, bacopa, kava, theanine, cdp choline, so I'll be taking all that and some diazepam, and I don't think I'll be touching phenibut for a while. I wish I could just throw it away, but it's so helpful for me. When I do inevitably start taking it again I'll have to make sure to control my intake better and take at most half of what I have been doing.

Edited by Sunwind, 08 December 2013 - 05:49 PM.

[Trippy 1]

I've been feeling an intense fear all week, very heightened anxiety even for myself as a social phobic, I've mostly been lying in bed all week because when I did get up I just had no energy to do anything, and I was even scared of speaking to family members. I have only been taking 2g phenibut 2-3 days per week, and no more than that as more makes me nauseas and vomit - anyway it occured to me yesterday that it must be the phenibut causing this. I haven't had any for a few days now and it's still hell. I'm surely on the back end of this so I'm not going to take any more and try to taper - I have access to diazepam but won't be able to get it until tomorrow, I could have got it on thursday but I didn't realize what was happening or it would be so bad.

Now that I recognize these symptoms, I realize I've been through this once before already without realizing it was phenibut or anything special, I just thought I was in a really shitty slump.

I've got picamilon, bacopa, kava, theanine, so I'll be taking all that and some diazepam, and I don't think I'll be touching phenibut for a while. I wish I could just throw it away, but it's so helpful for me. When I do inevitably start taking it again I'll have to make sure to control my intake better and take at most half of what I have been doing.

Good luck man and ya it will sneak up on you. I highly reccomend tapering. And no matter how shitty you feel just keep reassuring yourself that things WILL get better no matter how down you get.


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