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Iodine is magical miracle - most underrated supplement!

iodine miracle magic

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#61 Deckah

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 06:27 PM

I only skimmed the thread. I don't see what the big deal is. The thyroid and other glands that also need a prosperous thyroid function, are responsible for a lot of hormone functions & transactions w/ other glands/organs/ETC in the body.

I just don't see why taking it and having a considerable amount of effects would be that far from reality or apart of some type of conspiracy.

I DO think you should had labs taken though. I mean you could hover around the 12-13mg dose like most that tout iodine do.
As long as you feel good though and are not doing an action that will later on be a detriment to your body.


Most threads on the boards are claims, look @ most of the racetam threads.
I think why most snap is because most of the iodine praise came from the conspiracy realms and a lot of people take offense when people jump on-board to this.

Edited by Deckah, 23 November 2013 - 06:28 PM.


#62 Absent

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 07:17 PM

I was likely deficient to begin with. The effects have mostly leveled out, though, I still feel a slight boost each time I dose. They have become much more subtle, and under the fabric of my psyche, to put it in a subjective perspective. It would be wrong to say I've grown a tolerance to the effects. It feels more so like I am leveling out and normalizing, to a new, and "better" normal. I'm not overly stimulated, anxious, or anything like that, but my body temperature is warm, my cognition is at a much more stable and solid level than before in terms of information processing, etc.

Either way, I'm definitely glad I started this. I've been taking exactly 16 drops in the morning with a cup of orange juice. This probably isn't the best method since Vitamin C partially inhibits the absorption of Iodine... but either way, I definitely feel a difference compared to before I started taking. In a week or two, I may go off it for 4-5 days and see what happens. I don't think the effects will drop off, as iodine is effecting the longterm functioning of multiple systems, but we'll see when I decide to test that.

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#63 Kowalsteeze

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 07:29 PM

You might want to look into autoimmune thyroiditis and it's connection with iodine before you commit to your regimen. Start here http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1345585

#64 Absent

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 10:19 PM

I forgot to add:

One very interesting effect I have noticed is that my skin tone is way more healthy looking. Before I had always looked a great deal on the pale side.. and now my face has this reddish/warm glow to it(I'm white). Now quite like a tan, but to describe it, it would look akin to more blood flow in the face. My sister recently commented asking if I went to a tanning bed saying my skin tone looks way more consistent. I have had pale skin my entire life. I have always tanned easily, but the paleness has always come back. Having my skin tone naturally get a healthier glow makes me really happy.
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#65 Deckah

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 06:16 AM

That's an interesting development.

I noticed you mentioned that you've taken tyrosine on pg. 2. Are you still taking it?

#66 Absent

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:35 PM

I don't take tyrosine every single day, though I might incorporate it into my everyday thing. I'm waiting on a few other noots right now to arrive so I will see when I get them.

#67 BioFreak

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:43 PM

PLEASE tell me you are supplementing with selenium as well (havent read the whole thread..)?
If you don't, you may be inducing an auto immune disorder with iodine alone.

#68 Absent

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:55 PM

PLEASE tell me you are supplementing with selenium as well (havent read the whole thread..)?
If you don't, you may be inducing an auto immune disorder with iodine alone.



Haven't you read the whole thread :)?
http://www.longecity...post__p__624466 (page 1)

It's probably worth mentioning I am also taking a Multi that includes 200mcg selenium, and on the side a 2:1 Calcium:Magnesium supplement. I've read Cal/Mag/Selen are all very important with regards to the Iodine systems, which is why I take them. Plus, Calcium/Magnesium are good on their own as well. I will look into getting my blood tested, though I am not sure when that will be.



The effects have become really stable. I don't feel any of those hyperthyroid symptoms anymore, no anxiety, etc. My body temperature is elevated still, skin tone even/warmer, cognition higher, energy higher, alertness higher, and so on. All of these things were "up there" in the beginning, but more overt. I've added like 5 supplements to my stack in the last 5 days as well, (a couple days after the Iodine) so it's hard to be too definitive at this point anymore. All I can tell is that the initial Iodine effects are still there, along with some other ones I've gained from the other noots.

I can post my total stack as well if anyone is interested.

Edited by Siro, 24 November 2013 - 01:58 PM.

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#69 renfr

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 04:42 PM

I will side with Siro.
Iodine has been acting as a true miracle supplement for me.
Before iodine I had several health problems including hypothyroidism (from iodine deficiency) and worthless cognitive abilities as well as extreme cold intolerance.
It all changed when I started supplementing with iodine, I had to lose weight and despite using all kind of recipes to shed the pounds I failed and it led me to the only conclusion that I was iodine deficient so I bought kelp tablets (150mcg), I took one and suddenly I started shedding the pounds, my cognitive abilities ameliorated significantly and my cortisol dropped as well (it even dropped so much that it caused me orthostatic hypotension).
Then I entered the detox phase once I started supplementing with 800-1000mcg, I had typical symptoms of acute bromism and hypothyroidism, I kept taking the pills for almost 2 months then withdrew and now that I restarted weeks after I totally adapted to the dose and feel great every day.
I still can’t tolerate 30mg iodine which I tried last time but I’m young (21) so I don’t mind detoxing for 5-10 years.
Now my cognitive abilities are awesome not to say “normal”, before it took me a while to understand basic concepts in my lessons now it is almost instantaneous!
Also I had several other benefits, all symptoms of hypothyroidism vanished, my metabolism increased, I lost some weight, my skin is not dry anymore and is getting more beautiful, I also don’t have anxiety, seasonal depression or cortisol spikes anymore.
I think a lot of people do need iodine because we’re in fact iodine deficient for two major reasons :
  • We’re all exposed to bromides (fire retardant, hair dye, disinfectant in pools, brominated vegetable oil, brominated bread, etc…) and fluorides (toothpaste, disinfectant in pools, fluoridated water, old tea leaves) and these compete for absorption by the thyroid gland with iodide hence the detox symptoms when you dump all the bromide into the bloodstream
  • Iodized salt is a huge scam, because first you’d have to take tremendous amounts just to reach fair enough iodine levels and because salt inhibits absorption of iodine (fluoride>chloride>bromide>iodine), this is why it is used to flush out the bromide in certain cases, chloride will also flush out iodine and inhibit its absorption, it’s like taking a poison and it’s antidote at the same time
I suggest reading about medical iodophobia and The wolff chaikoff effect : the crying wolf, it is very interesting to see that what was considered as a miracle nutrient decades ago is now rejected massively by the medical community.
Once upon a time we were used extremely high iodine doses with no adverse effects, of course today we have to be careful using high doses because most of our bodies are so intoxicated with halides that this would cause a deadly detox.

One thing that must be avoided is organic iodine (not organic as "natural" but organic in the scientific sense) such as amiodarone which is toxic to the thyroid.
Only inorganic forms should be taken such as iodine, SSKi (potassium iodide) or kelp.
Kelp is a bit controversial because it might be contaminated with bromide.

Edited by renfr, 24 November 2013 - 04:48 PM.

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#70 Absent

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 04:54 PM

Extreme cold intolerance was a big problem I had to deal with as well. If there was even a slight amount of what I consider "cold" with a wind, it would be incredibly painful to me, even in the high 30's. It's much better now.

I experienced Bromide detox symptoms as well, but only for 2 days. For 2 days when I woke up my feet/lower legs were incredibly sore like I had jumped off of a building and landed on them, lol, but the sensation went away the next day. Now I do not experience any noticeably unpleasant bromide detox symptoms.

I can't attest to weight loss, as I have always been very skinny and had trouble gaining weight, though I have always been able to put on muscle very easily.

Overall it definitely feels my mindset has stabilized to a tremendous extent, which, I cannot express in words how great it feels.

#71 niner

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 11:12 PM

Is there any evidence for the various claims that fluoride or chloride will "displace iodine"? I have a suspicion that these claims are misinterpretations of the halogen activity series, where a neutral halogen will grab an electron from a negatively charged halide below it in the periodic table, thus "displacing" the free halogen from its halide form. For example, chlorine (gas, Cl2) + sodium bromide (Na+, Br-) --> sodium chloride + bromine. Chemically, the fluorIDE ion is very stable, and isn't going to chemically displace anything from anything. FluorINE, on the other hand, in its pure elemental form, is highly reactive. So much so that I doubt any of you have ever encountered it.

Another thing that keeps coming up is the concept of "bromine detox". What's the evidence that this is real? You used to be able to buy potassium bromide over the counter. It was used as a sedative. In higher doses, it was used as an anti-seizure agent. In this application, it was dosed in GRAMS. In one discussion of the supposed "bromine detox" effect, I recall them noting urinary levels of bromide in the MICROGRAM/liter range. How in the hell is that going to cause any toxicity whatsoever?

Both of these claims are all over the internet, in the "iodine echo chamber". I think it would be great if we could separate fact from nonsense here. I think iodine is important and should be supplemented- but I use 225 mcg/d, not milligrams.
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#72 Absent

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 11:21 PM

niner,

I share your skepticism regarding bromine/bromide detox. I saw a lot of people talking about it, but little science behind it. Same goes with this salt-loading thing. I do know that I saw a list of bromide detox symptoms on some Iodine site, and I was experiencing 90% of them. Most of them so minor I didn't even notice. Besides the one of my feet being sore. Though, that is no longer. The most noticeable thing I have been experiencing in terms of negative detox symptoms is my urine smells funny.

If there is some credence to this bromine/ide detox thing, then it is possible that there is not much in my body. 95% of my life I have only drunken well water, avoided city water, and avoided fluoride tooth paste. I also meditated a ton which supposedly detoxes the body as well. I only experienced the detox symptoms for about a day, whereas I've heard other people say they had detox symptoms for months. Who knows. It's a curious thing.

I'm still @ 16 drops per day, in the morning. The effects aren't 'growing' anymore, but they're not decreasing either. They are leveling out, and the extreme aspects(anxiety) are fading into the background. The best definition I feel would be to say there is a stable ground with regards to the iodine/thyroid effects.
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#73 BioFreak

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 10:54 AM

PLEASE tell me you are supplementing with selenium as well (havent read the whole thread..)?
If you don't, you may be inducing an auto immune disorder with iodine alone.



Haven't you read the whole thread :)?
http://www.longecity...post__p__624466 (page 1)


Guilty as charged. :D I apologize. I wanted to point out that this is very important, redundancy is a good thing in this regard, I guess.

I also had good success with iodine, when I tried it. However, I am not really sure if it was iodine, or salt loading that had such a great effect on me.

I started with 1,5g iodine in potassium form, and whenever I took it, my negative thinking was just gone and I was thinking positively. Maybe placebo, maybe not. Unfortunately, it was quite expensive (bastards!! As if iodine was expensive!!). I then too started with lugols (5%, always with selenium...!!), going from 6,25mg up to 100mg. Even 150 when I was sick (killed most of my flu symptoms when I did that). I did get skin problems. Was it the iodine? Was it the heavy metals and halogens that were pushed into my blood stream? I don't know, I never got lab tests. But honestly, I even get them now(I haven't used iodine in a long time), and the only thing in both cases that clears them up is salt loading. Makes me wonder if I am LOADED with bromide, or what else might be the cause. Anyways... I recently started with salt loading again, and it is so damn stress reducing that I am not sure how much I can attribute to Iodine.

I had that summer in 2010 when I was experimenting with it, 100mg of iodine a day, (with vitamin c so the oxidation risk from lugols was gone), a lot of salt loading until my skin was looking great... and I felt just... great. Relaxed, extremely relaxed, I think I never enjoyed a summer as much as that one. But at the same time I also had done a lot of work and my bank account was filled enough not to worry about the money, AND I had no customers, so the summer was really only one big relaxing time... So was it iodine? was it salt loading? Was it that my financials were ok, and I didn't have to work? I don't know, but I'd say that iodine and/or salt loading played a big part in me just enjoying the summer. But those weren't the only factor. Also, my thyroid got bigger, I think, because my neck was getting bigger, I assume it's the thyroid - which was relatively welcome because I liked it better that way. lol.

some facts about iodine that I know:
1. high dose iodine pushes halogens (fluoride, bromide) out of the cells into the bloodstream, as well as aluminium, mercury (and more? don't remember, its been a few years since I researched iodine)
2. It can be too much at once, in that case skin irritations occur. salt loading to the rescue!
3. never take iodine without selenium. In a subpopulation not doing so will result in thyroid autoimmune disorders(probably NOT reversible)
4. iodine intake above 30mg is likely to lower thyroid function, while iodine intake below likely will increase tsh but not lower t3/t4
5. iodine can be used to fight some cancers by inducing apoptosis. This is especially true for breast tissue, prostate. Essentially all tissue that has a lot of iodine receptors.
6. essentially any cell in the body has iodine receptors, but different tissue types differ in the receptor count.
7. halogens can enter the cell in place of iodine because of their similarity, replacing it, but not replacing iodine's functions, disturbing a cell's function
8. different people react differently to iodine. Some factors are: people with hyperthyroid may need higher doses to lower thyoid function, while those with a lower thyroid may need lower doses not to shut down the thyroid but make it more active, if you have nodules within the thyroid it might go very hyperthyroid, if you have autoimmune thyroid disorder, high dosages of iodine might help in decreasing the thyroids function and thus decrease the autoimmune response...
9. depending on your load with heavy metals and bromides, you might get massive problems when too many toxins reach the blood stream too quickly...
10. high heavy metal and/or halogen load within the body can not be detected by blood tests, if it is chronic (and thus incorporated in the cell, but not in the bloodstream). It should be detectable when using high dosages of iodine, in the blood stream and urine.
11. Iodine's scientific journey has been extremely biased. First, towards an aliment for all sickness (iodine was the first medicine that was being used by modern medicine with success!), secondly it was condemned as being toxic by the people who synthesized t4/3 the first time and produced it (bias, anyone?) and many believed them. Due to the fact that it increases tsh, numerous studies concluded that it inhibits thyroid function even at moderate levels, while many did not look at t3/4 which indeed do not decrease until about the 30mg(!) mark. So which side is right? None entirely, I believe, but studies in high dose iodine are still lacking to find out whats true...
12. Don't do high dosages of iodine, just to think "hey, this is not high. I take more, and create a thread "because someone had to do it"". because, at very high dosages, you will likely get BLIND. Irreversibly. And at even higher dosages, death awaits. I personally did not get higher then 150mg iodine, and that ONLY when I was sick, and I am not sure this was save, and I probably won't do it again. Up to 100mg seem to be save, with exclusions (which I mentioned earlier). Every substance has a dosage where it gets dangerous. However, there have been instances where someone swallowed a small bottle and survived, lol.

So long story short. It seems to be great, but, with iodine, it's simply not that simple, and highly individualistic.
Just surf around a few sites about high iodine intake with a non moderated comment system, and you will see there are a lot of people raving about it, and some, where it was the opposite. Groups like the iodine group on yahoo are highly biased, just like the fraction saying that iodine above 1mg is toxic...

There is much more to say about iodine, but just a few pointers to anyone interested... I've been talking about iodine before, but this was a hefty discussion, and I didn't have time to search for studies for every argument I made, and I still don't have time, so I stopped talking about it.
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#74 renfr

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 07:00 PM

PLEASE tell me you are supplementing with selenium as well (havent read the whole thread..)?
If you don't, you may be inducing an auto immune disorder with iodine alone.



Haven't you read the whole thread :)?
http://www.longecity...post__p__624466 (page 1)

Due to the fact that it increases tsh, numerous studies concluded that it inhibits thyroid function even at moderate levels, while many did not look at t3/4 which indeed do not decrease until about the 30mg(!) mark. So which side is right? None entirely, I believe, but studies in high dose iodine are still lacking to find out whats true...
12. Don't do high dosages of iodine, just to think "hey, this is not high. I take more, and create a thread "because someone had to do it"". because, at very high dosages, you will likely get BLIND. Irreversibly. And at even higher dosages, death awaits. I personally did not get higher then 150mg iodine, and that ONLY when I was sick, and I am not sure this was save, and I probably won't do it again. Up to 100mg seem to be save, with exclusions (which I mentioned earlier). Every substance has a dosage where it gets dangerous. However, there have been instances where someone swallowed a small bottle and survived, lol.

The reason why iodine increases TSH is because TSH isn't necessarily a factor of thyroid hormone deficiency, TSH can also be stimulated for the sole reason of stimulating NIS receptors (Sodium iodide symporters) which helps transport more iodine.
Usually this will last for several months and then the TSH will go down.
This is exactly what happened with me, my TSH shoot up but my T4 are on the high side and I feel great.
"Modern" medecine has an irrational fear of iodine and they diagnose your thyroid function just based upon your TSH levels which is ridiculous and if you don't have the proper levels then you get prescribed thyroid hormones which do more harm than good.

150mg is fine, 130mg is the international standard that has to be supplied to citizens in case of nuclear fallout in order to protect the thyroid from RAI.
Up to 6 grams have been used but this would be very dangerous to give to someone with high halide intoxication or a goiter or a thyroid cancer.

Edited by renfr, 25 November 2013 - 07:10 PM.

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#75 niner

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 01:42 AM

some facts about iodine that I know:
1. high dose iodine pushes halogens (fluoride, bromide) out of the cells into the bloodstream, as well as aluminium, mercury (and more? don't remember, its been a few years since I researched iodine)

9. depending on your load with heavy metals and bromides, you might get massive problems when too many toxins reach the blood stream too quickly...


How do you know these things? Is there any evidence? I think the so-called "detox" symptoms are from iodine poisoning.

#76 Absent

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 02:08 AM

The "detox" symptoms I experienced were rather minor and have sense vanished after the one day. That is of course besides the smelly urine and what not. I definitely do not feel 'poisoned' in any sense. My fall break for university is coming up soon so I plan to go off Iodine for a week or so. I want to see if there are any observable 'come downs' or anything of that nature that might imply an iodine dependency for the energetic states I've reached.

#77 zorba990

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 03:53 AM

An interesting study:
http://www.eje-onlin.../4/403.full.pdf

"Chronic iodine excess does not apparently increase the risk of autoimmune hyperthyroidism or influence the incidence and out- come of subclinical hyperthyroidism, which suggests that chronic excessive iodine intake may not be involved in the occurrence of autoimmune hyperthyroidism as an environmental factor."

Edited by zorba990, 26 November 2013 - 03:59 AM.

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#78 BioFreak

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 01:03 PM

PLEASE tell me you are supplementing with selenium as well (havent read the whole thread..)?
If you don't, you may be inducing an auto immune disorder with iodine alone.



Haven't you read the whole thread :)?
http://www.longecity...post__p__624466 (page 1)

Due to the fact that it increases tsh, numerous studies concluded that it inhibits thyroid function even at moderate levels, while many did not look at t3/4 which indeed do not decrease until about the 30mg(!) mark. So which side is right? None entirely, I believe, but studies in high dose iodine are still lacking to find out whats true...
12. Don't do high dosages of iodine, just to think "hey, this is not high. I take more, and create a thread "because someone had to do it"". because, at very high dosages, you will likely get BLIND. Irreversibly. And at even higher dosages, death awaits. I personally did not get higher then 150mg iodine, and that ONLY when I was sick, and I am not sure this was save, and I probably won't do it again. Up to 100mg seem to be save, with exclusions (which I mentioned earlier). Every substance has a dosage where it gets dangerous. However, there have been instances where someone swallowed a small bottle and survived, lol.

The reason why iodine increases TSH is because TSH isn't necessarily a factor of thyroid hormone deficiency, TSH can also be stimulated for the sole reason of stimulating NIS receptors (Sodium iodide symporters) which helps transport more iodine.
Usually this will last for several months and then the TSH will go down.
This is exactly what happened with me, my TSH shoot up but my T4 are on the high side and I feel great.
"Modern" medecine has an irrational fear of iodine and they diagnose your thyroid function just based upon your TSH levels which is ridiculous and if you don't have the proper levels then you get prescribed thyroid hormones which do more harm than good.

150mg is fine, 130mg is the international standard that has to be supplied to citizens in case of nuclear fallout in order to protect the thyroid from RAI.
Up to 6 grams have been used but this would be very dangerous to give to someone with high halide intoxication or a goiter or a thyroid cancer.


I don't think 6g are even remotely healthy, the blindness thing happened in far lower dosages. Unfortunately I can't find the iodine review study that mentioned several cases of high iodine intake leading to permanent damage. I think it was around the 400mg mark, maybe 250...
iodine for thyroid cancer should be good though? Iodine activates apoptosis in cells, and it is much more effective in tissue that absorbs iodine more easily (i.e. breast tissue) - it should be even stronger for thyroid tissue.

I thought 100mg are the standard for radioactive iodine (nuclear fallout) protection?

some facts about iodine that I know:
1. high dose iodine pushes halogens (fluoride, bromide) out of the cells into the bloodstream, as well as aluminium, mercury (and more? don't remember, its been a few years since I researched iodine)

9. depending on your load with heavy metals and bromides, you might get massive problems when too many toxins reach the blood stream too quickly...


How do you know these things? Is there any evidence? I think the so-called "detox" symptoms are from iodine poisoning.


Most I know I base on abraham's studies, and basically all of the high iodine hype is based on it(http://www.optimox.c...esearch_I.shtml). They show for example that subjects with high iodine intake had increased urinary excretion of bromine, fluoride etc.
Yes, they also sell iodine. Which means they may, or may not be biased. However, there have been a LOT of anecdotal reports that are in line with those studies by now, too many to ignore it. And pretty much everything seems to be like the studies suggest. Many of these anectodal reports also had lab work done. It is a pitty that there is no database to quantify those anecdotal reports.

It is not surprising that science may have gone the wrong way with iodine. Think about it: iodine without selenium may induce autothyroid diseases in some(So by lack of understanding, iodine made people sick). Iodine removes halides and heavy metals from the cells into the blood stream. Again, this looks like iodine makes people sick. while it is in fact the first step to detoxing toxic stuff from the body): The standard TSH test does not reliably say what the thyroid is doing, but it is used all over the literature, and iodine elevates TSH, indicating hypothyroid. The downfall of iodine as a medicine came from biased people who synthesized t3 or t4 and wanted to promote their way. And iodine was more or less the last medicine that was based on an element. People at that time had a bad feeling about this type of stuff, because at one time, bromide, and other toxic elements were actually used as medicine(You could talk about a elementophobia... another example? sodium. Evidence for high dose sodium increasing disease is far from conclusive, while there is now evidence that the opposite is true, within limits of course). So all of that caused a lot of confusion with iodine. Are you surprised? I am not. I am not saying that one side is entirely right or wrong. What I am saying is that this is a case of complicated relationships that led to the wrong conclusions in the 60ties.

Also, skin rashes cleared up with salt loading which makes the kidney prioritize bromide for excretion. This is actually standard procedure by the US military in case of acute (meaning its in the blood) bromide intoxication. The symptoms of iodine and bromide intoxication, at least when it comes to the skin, are identical.

What I know is that bromide can really stick around because it has a low clearing rate, while excess iodine is excreted within 24h. Salt loading clears my skin rashes that look like iodine or bromide rashes, but the thing is: I haven't had iodine for months now. So if it is the case that its iodine or bromide that causes those rashes, it can only be bromide for me, because iodine does not stick around so long.

I do not doubt that iodine itself can cause skin rashes too... BUT it would take much more for them to appear because of the much faster clearing rate compared to bromide. Especially in the US people have problems with chronic bromide exposure because it allowed as an ingredient in food products, for example, mountain brew. In the EU it has been banned a long time ago.

Blood tests for bromide can be missleading because it gets absorbed into the cells (chronic exposure). Only acute bromide levels can be detected, or, if you have a way to get bromide out of the cells, for example with iodine. It works because bromide and iodine have a very similar structure, so one can replace the other.

There are some labs that are offering urinary testing for halides and heavy metals in the US, and a lot of people on the iodine protocol use them. Maybe they have some sort of statistics, but I doubt it... privacy and such.

The thing is: the evidence for high iodine protocols is thin - most work being done by one researcher, small sample size, and he also sells the stuff. But his research sounds fine to me, there are plenty of people who agree through their experience, and there are some facts that I can not explain by iodine, for example the long duration of skin rashes that go away through salt loading, long after iodine supplementation was discontinued.

Also I have had a lot of positive effects, for example my hearing improved, I felt much better on "low"(1,5g/day) iodine supplementation (meaning low possibility for increasing bromide in the blood stream) or on high iodine, together with enough salt loading so that there were no detox effects. The most notable thing was how my mind could change from the glass is half empty to half full. Sure, that could be placebo, but I raraly felt as good as on high iodine, combined with salt loading, for an entire summer. I also had no need to take a mid day nap while on high dose iodine, while it should have made me tired (I should have been hypothyroid on high doses, but I was not, I was not hyperthyroid also, I was just fine, better then without iodine.)

I once hypotized that I may be loaded with bromide. But the detox symptoms didn't go away with time (they did with salt loading, but they returned if I continued with iodine and stopped salt loading). So, I was suspecting, just like you, that it after all could be iodine, that causes the rashes, not bromide. That, and all the warnings I heard, and the fact that high salt intake also has a negative sound to it (which may not be true after all) I decided to quit. But since the skin rashes didn't go away, I am intrigued... might it been bromide after all? Maybe I simply didn't give iodine and my body enough time to clear it ALL out. For the record: I could have been chronically exposed to bromide in my childhood for 6 years. Don't know for sure. But I have/had a lot of symptoms that make a case for bromide:
fatigue, sluggishness, impairment of memory and concentration, irritability or emotional instability, and depression, tendon reflex changes (actually my reflex area at the knee for example was not normal). I've had them since second grade...

This site also describes the low clearance rate of bromide, salt loading and other strategies to reduce bromide levels in the blood, symptoms, causes, low level bromism, etc...
http://www.gulflink....8.2.chap10.html

iodineresearch.com has a lot of iodine studies, however, that site is obviously advertising the high dose iodine view, and may be biased (I don't like the fact that I can't find anything about iodine toxicity on the site, for example...)

So basically there seem to be errors in the history of iodine research due to the complexity of the topic, at least), but we need replication of abraham's studies with a proper setup(bigger population, doubleblind), and I have the feeling that we will not see that for a long time, so its still controversial...


So now here I am, waiting for my selenium to arrive, already doing salt loading which is great for stress and anxiety too by the way... So I figure, why not start again with iodine and enjoy the benefits I once had?


An interesting study:
http://www.eje-onlin.../4/403.full.pdf

"Chronic iodine excess does not apparently increase the risk of autoimmune hyperthyroidism or influence the incidence and out- come of subclinical hyperthyroidism, which suggests that chronic excessive iodine intake may not be involved in the occurrence of autoimmune hyperthyroidism as an environmental factor."


Thanks for the study. I wouldn't conclude from this however that iodine cannot induce autoimmune disorders without selenium, though...
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#79 BioFreak

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 01:21 PM

There we go, retinal toxicity by high dose iodine:

"Ocular toxicity in
humans has occurred only after exposure to doses of 600 to 1,200 mg per individual."


http://iodineresearc...stry_burgi.html

So that site has a bit of toxicity information after all...

Edited by BioFreak, 26 November 2013 - 01:27 PM.


#80 BioFreak

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:13 PM

According to Dr.Brownstein btw., benign thyroid nodules contain 56% iodine compared to normal thyroid tissue... but
malignant thyroid nodules contain just 3% iodine compared to normal thyroid tissue.

Based on this data alone, I would say better benign then malignant and up my iodine intake if I had thyroid nodules.

#81 gt35r

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:56 PM

According to Dr.Brownstein btw., benign thyroid nodules contain 56% iodine compared to normal thyroid tissue... but
malignant thyroid nodules contain just 3% iodine compared to normal thyroid tissue.

Based on this data alone, I would say better benign then malignant and up my iodine intake if I had thyroid nodules.


Are you kidding me?

Normal thyroid tissue is going to have higher iodine levels because of follicular cells are structure around colloid that contain iodine. Malignant tissue do not have the structure of normal normal thyroid tissue, simply taking iodine is not going to prevent malignant tissue.

Its not the presence of iodine that make the tissue benign vs malignant but the structure of the tissue that cause changes in the presence of iodine.

You are looking at the data from an odd way.

#82 BioFreak

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:26 PM

Maybe malignant tissue has a problem with absorption of iodine, and thus goes malignant. Increasing iodine intake would increase the chance to saturate this tissue too and induce apoptosis. Which is the way high iodine works in fibrocystic breast disease, reducing nodules over time.
In fact tissue saturated with other halides is much less likely to absorb iodine, that's why abraham uses high dosages to increase iodines chance to replace bromide or fluoride in the cell.

You seem to forget that the data was comparing malignant and benign thyroid nodules, and uses normal thyroid tissue as a baseline. The point the data was making was the difference in iodine content between malignant and benign thyroid nodules, not between malignant thyroid nodules and normal thyroid tissue. Both were lower in iodine then normal thyroid tissue, but that was not the point.

#83 gt35r

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:35 PM

Yes but malignant masses grow much faster than begin nodules which is why there structure is so much more altered. Lack of iodine does not cause them to go malignant, its that they are malignant that they do not express the protein for iodine transporters (and due to the structural issue are not near colloids). Malignant cells are so busy reproducing that they are not in the G1 phase of cell life long enough to expression iodine transporters.
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#84 renfr

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:50 PM

some facts about iodine that I know:
1. high dose iodine pushes halogens (fluoride, bromide) out of the cells into the bloodstream, as well as aluminium, mercury (and more? don't remember, its been a few years since I researched iodine)

9. depending on your load with heavy metals and bromides, you might get massive problems when too many toxins reach the blood stream too quickly...


How do you know these things? Is there any evidence? I think the so-called "detox" symptoms are from iodine poisoning.

Information about this is very scarce, however there are scientific studies that prove that bromide intoxication symptoms can be diminished significantly with the addition of saline loading.
From my experience, if this was iodine intoxication I'd keep being intoxicated if that was true.
Before 800mcg was impossible for me to handle, today it doesn't cause any symptoms so I doubt you could say it's iodine toxicity.
It is said to be bromide detox due to the symptoms experienced and the fact that saline loading has a positive effect on easing the symptoms indicates that something harmful is being flushed out.
When urinary excretion is expressed in mg/L of bromide it's not a mistake, over 50mg/L is an indicator of toxicity. (http://www.gulflink....8.2.chap10.html)
We still don't really know but from my experience and the experience of many others this hypothesis seems to be verified at least practically.

PLEASE tell me you are supplementing with selenium as well (havent read the whole thread..)?
If you don't, you may be inducing an auto immune disorder with iodine alone.



Haven't you read the whole thread :)?
http://www.longecity...post__p__624466 (page 1)

Due to the fact that it increases tsh, numerous studies concluded that it inhibits thyroid function even at moderate levels, while many did not look at t3/4 which indeed do not decrease until about the 30mg(!) mark. So which side is right? None entirely, I believe, but studies in high dose iodine are still lacking to find out whats true...
12. Don't do high dosages of iodine, just to think "hey, this is not high. I take more, and create a thread "because someone had to do it"". because, at very high dosages, you will likely get BLIND. Irreversibly. And at even higher dosages, death awaits. I personally did not get higher then 150mg iodine, and that ONLY when I was sick, and I am not sure this was save, and I probably won't do it again. Up to 100mg seem to be save, with exclusions (which I mentioned earlier). Every substance has a dosage where it gets dangerous. However, there have been instances where someone swallowed a small bottle and survived, lol.

The reason why iodine increases TSH is because TSH isn't necessarily a factor of thyroid hormone deficiency, TSH can also be stimulated for the sole reason of stimulating NIS receptors (Sodium iodide symporters) which helps transport more iodine.
Usually this will last for several months and then the TSH will go down.
This is exactly what happened with me, my TSH shoot up but my T4 are on the high side and I feel great.
"Modern" medecine has an irrational fear of iodine and they diagnose your thyroid function just based upon your TSH levels which is ridiculous and if you don't have the proper levels then you get prescribed thyroid hormones which do more harm than good.

150mg is fine, 130mg is the international standard that has to be supplied to citizens in case of nuclear fallout in order to protect the thyroid from RAI.
Up to 6 grams have been used but this would be very dangerous to give to someone with high halide intoxication or a goiter or a thyroid cancer.


I don't think 6g are even remotely healthy, the blindness thing happened in far lower dosages. Unfortunately I can't find the iodine review study that mentioned several cases of high iodine intake leading to permanent damage. I think it was around the 400mg mark, maybe 250...
iodine for thyroid cancer should be good though? Iodine activates apoptosis in cells, and it is much more effective in tissue that absorbs iodine more easily (i.e. breast tissue) - it should be even stronger for thyroid tissue.

I thought 100mg are the standard for radioactive iodine (nuclear fallout) protection?

some facts about iodine that I know:
1. high dose iodine pushes halogens (fluoride, bromide) out of the cells into the bloodstream, as well as aluminium, mercury (and more? don't remember, its been a few years since I researched iodine)

9. depending on your load with heavy metals and bromides, you might get massive problems when too many toxins reach the blood stream too quickly...


How do you know these things? Is there any evidence? I think the so-called "detox" symptoms are from iodine poisoning.


Most I know I base on abraham's studies, and basically all of the high iodine hype is based on it(http://www.optimox.c...esearch_I.shtml). They show for example that subjects with high iodine intake had increased urinary excretion of bromine, fluoride etc.
Yes, they also sell iodine. Which means they may, or may not be biased. However, there have been a LOT of anecdotal reports that are in line with those studies by now, too many to ignore it. And pretty much everything seems to be like the studies suggest. Many of these anectodal reports also had lab work done. It is a pitty that there is no database to quantify those anecdotal reports.

It is not surprising that science may have gone the wrong way with iodine. Think about it: iodine without selenium may induce autothyroid diseases in some(So by lack of understanding, iodine made people sick). Iodine removes halides and heavy metals from the cells into the blood stream. Again, this looks like iodine makes people sick. while it is in fact the first step to detoxing toxic stuff from the body): The standard TSH test does not reliably say what the thyroid is doing, but it is used all over the literature, and iodine elevates TSH, indicating hypothyroid. The downfall of iodine as a medicine came from biased people who synthesized t3 or t4 and wanted to promote their way. And iodine was more or less the last medicine that was based on an element. People at that time had a bad feeling about this type of stuff, because at one time, bromide, and other toxic elements were actually used as medicine(You could talk about a elementophobia... another example? sodium. Evidence for high dose sodium increasing disease is far from conclusive, while there is now evidence that the opposite is true, within limits of course). So all of that caused a lot of confusion with iodine. Are you surprised? I am not. I am not saying that one side is entirely right or wrong. What I am saying is that this is a case of complicated relationships that led to the wrong conclusions in the 60ties.

Also, skin rashes cleared up with salt loading which makes the kidney prioritize bromide for excretion. This is actually standard procedure by the US military in case of acute (meaning its in the blood) bromide intoxication. The symptoms of iodine and bromide intoxication, at least when it comes to the skin, are identical.

What I know is that bromide can really stick around because it has a low clearing rate, while excess iodine is excreted within 24h. Salt loading clears my skin rashes that look like iodine or bromide rashes, but the thing is: I haven't had iodine for months now. So if it is the case that its iodine or bromide that causes those rashes, it can only be bromide for me, because iodine does not stick around so long.

I do not doubt that iodine itself can cause skin rashes too... BUT it would take much more for them to appear because of the much faster clearing rate compared to bromide. Especially in the US people have problems with chronic bromide exposure because it allowed as an ingredient in food products, for example, mountain brew. In the EU it has been banned a long time ago.

Blood tests for bromide can be missleading because it gets absorbed into the cells (chronic exposure). Only acute bromide levels can be detected, or, if you have a way to get bromide out of the cells, for example with iodine. It works because bromide and iodine have a very similar structure, so one can replace the other.

There are some labs that are offering urinary testing for halides and heavy metals in the US, and a lot of people on the iodine protocol use them. Maybe they have some sort of statistics, but I doubt it... privacy and such.

The thing is: the evidence for high iodine protocols is thin - most work being done by one researcher, small sample size, and he also sells the stuff. But his research sounds fine to me, there are plenty of people who agree through their experience, and there are some facts that I can not explain by iodine, for example the long duration of skin rashes that go away through salt loading, long after iodine supplementation was discontinued.

Also I have had a lot of positive effects, for example my hearing improved, I felt much better on "low"(1,5g/day) iodine supplementation (meaning low possibility for increasing bromide in the blood stream) or on high iodine, together with enough salt loading so that there were no detox effects. The most notable thing was how my mind could change from the glass is half empty to half full. Sure, that could be placebo, but I raraly felt as good as on high iodine, combined with salt loading, for an entire summer. I also had no need to take a mid day nap while on high dose iodine, while it should have made me tired (I should have been hypothyroid on high doses, but I was not, I was not hyperthyroid also, I was just fine, better then without iodine.)

I once hypotized that I may be loaded with bromide. But the detox symptoms didn't go away with time (they did with salt loading, but they returned if I continued with iodine and stopped salt loading). So, I was suspecting, just like you, that it after all could be iodine, that causes the rashes, not bromide. That, and all the warnings I heard, and the fact that high salt intake also has a negative sound to it (which may not be true after all) I decided to quit. But since the skin rashes didn't go away, I am intrigued... might it been bromide after all? Maybe I simply didn't give iodine and my body enough time to clear it ALL out. For the record: I could have been chronically exposed to bromide in my childhood for 6 years. Don't know for sure. But I have/had a lot of symptoms that make a case for bromide:
fatigue, sluggishness, impairment of memory and concentration, irritability or emotional instability, and depression, tendon reflex changes (actually my reflex area at the knee for example was not normal). I've had them since second grade...

This site also describes the low clearance rate of bromide, salt loading and other strategies to reduce bromide levels in the blood, symptoms, causes, low level bromism, etc...
http://www.gulflink....8.2.chap10.html

iodineresearch.com has a lot of iodine studies, however, that site is obviously advertising the high dose iodine view, and may be biased (I don't like the fact that I can't find anything about iodine toxicity on the site, for example...)

So basically there seem to be errors in the history of iodine research due to the complexity of the topic, at least), but we need replication of abraham's studies with a proper setup(bigger population, doubleblind), and I have the feeling that we will not see that for a long time, so its still controversial...


So now here I am, waiting for my selenium to arrive, already doing salt loading which is great for stress and anxiety too by the way... So I figure, why not start again with iodine and enjoy the benefits I once had?


An interesting study:
http://www.eje-onlin.../4/403.full.pdf

"Chronic iodine excess does not apparently increase the risk of autoimmune hyperthyroidism or influence the incidence and out- come of subclinical hyperthyroidism, which suggests that chronic excessive iodine intake may not be involved in the occurrence of autoimmune hyperthyroidism as an environmental factor."


Thanks for the study. I wouldn't conclude from this however that iodine cannot induce autoimmune disorders without selenium, though...

You are saying that over 400mg is harmful however you claim to have taken 1,5g, I quite don't understand, don't you mean 1,5mg?
6 grams is an extreme dose and it would be foolish to use such a dose without medical supervision, maybe it is sustainable if you raise the dose slowly, I just wanted to say that apparently it was already used before medical iodophobia struck US and Europe.

#85 BioFreak

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:59 PM

You are saying that over 400mg is harmful however you claim to have taken 1,5g, I quite don't understand, don't you mean 1,5mg?
6 grams is an extreme dose and it would be foolish to use such a dose without medical supervision, maybe it is sustainable if you raise the dose slowly, I just wanted to say that apparently it was already used before medical iodophobia struck US and Europe.


TYPO!!!! Oh my god, how can I edit that one? Please Admins, let me or edit it. I meant 1,5mg (which is the maximum dose you can get in pill form in germany, meant to be taken weekly, I took it daily), and my maximum dosage was 150mg, when I was sick. 1,5g would probably make me blind.

Edited by BioFreak, 26 November 2013 - 06:00 PM.


#86 niner

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:02 PM

some facts about iodine that I know:
1. high dose iodine pushes halogens (fluoride, bromide) out of the cells into the bloodstream, as well as aluminium, mercury (and more? don't remember, its been a few years since I researched iodine)

9. depending on your load with heavy metals and bromides, you might get massive problems when too many toxins reach the blood stream too quickly...


How do you know these things? Is there any evidence? I think the so-called "detox" symptoms are from iodine poisoning.

Information about this is very scarce, however there are scientific studies that prove that bromide intoxication symptoms can be diminished significantly with the addition of saline loading.
From my experience, if this was iodine intoxication I'd keep being intoxicated if that was true.
Before 800mcg was impossible for me to handle, today it doesn't cause any symptoms so I doubt you could say it's iodine toxicity.
It is said to be bromide detox due to the symptoms experienced and the fact that saline loading has a positive effect on easing the symptoms indicates that something harmful is being flushed out.
When urinary excretion is expressed in mg/L of bromide it's not a mistake, over 50mg/L is an indicator of toxicity. (http://www.gulflink....8.2.chap10.html)
We still don't really know but from my experience and the experience of many others this hypothesis seems to be verified at least practically.


That brominism link essentially makes my point. In order to see toxicity from bromine, you need to have A LOT of it. There's no way that so many iodine users have bromine levels high enough to cause toxicity. The toxic symptoms that many people get from high dose iodine use are probably real, but I don't think we can blame them on bromine. Saline loading causes a lot of different physiological responses; I don't see how it's indicative that something harmful is being flushed out. How much (and what concentration) saline are you using?

It's quite common for people to adapt to a substance over time, such that amounts that cause toxic symptoms initially are tolerated without trouble later. People may be adapting to high dose iodine over time, but maybe no one wants to admit that the toxic symptoms are due to iodine because that doesn't fit the narrative of it being a completely benign substance.
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#87 BioFreak

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 12:16 PM

Why not? Chronic exposure to bromide can lead to a high buildup in the body that is incorporated into cells and not necessarily in high levels in the blood. When iodine pushes out bromide and fluoride out of the cell, the kidneys may not be clearing those from the blood stream fast enough - especially true for bromide that is known to leave the body very slowly. Now with suddenly spiking levels of halides in the blood, I can imagine that symptoms, psychologically, or on the skin can manifest. The skin is one way for the body to dispose of toxins, so skin rashes make sense.

Even though I still believe that the fast clearance rate of iodine, and the slow one of bromide make it more likely that bromide is the cause of the skin rashes (and their persistence for months after stopping iodine supplementation), as well as the fact that saline loading makes them go away within days to a week... We both can't be sure unless we get blood and urine tests, especially while saline loading. If I am correct, there should be high levels of bromide(or other nasty elements), but virtually none of iodine in the urine while the skin rash clears up. If you are correct, I would imagine the opposite. Right? Also, blood bromide levels should spike after iodine supplementation, so pre and after iodine supplement blood tests would shed light on it also. Maybe I should search for a lab to do blood and urine tests for me directly but I am afraid I might not be able to afford them atm. Also, I heard that only a few labs are prepared to do bromide testing in germany nowadays (which might have to do with bromide being banned as a food ingredient).

But to be honest, it bothers me that I can not exclude your or my view for sure.

Once the skin rashes appeared, they did not go away with time alone or with stopping iodine supplementation (or at a very low rate, talking about months or years here(!)). When they were very bad, I would take 1 tea spoon of aprox 97% naci as unrefined salt, 3 times a day, in 1/2 glass of water, followed by 3-4 full glasses of water. The first day I maybe would do more, if urination would not increase. I also would see to it that I would have an increased intake of potassium. Doing this I would see an clear improvement in my skin within 1-2 days, and complete clearup within a week. I would not continue with salt loading at this dose for longer then a week, and maybe take a few days of iodine.

To describe the skin rash, it would be one or two kinds of skin rash:
A skin rash on the elbow, on the outside of the inner part, better description of location: lateral epicondyle
The skin rash would be like harder parts of the skin, size of 0.3 -0.5 in diameter (guessing here, I have no skin rashes now), and they would be harder then surrounding skin, and slightly darker. You could also describe them as looking like scars. I remember my girlfriend telling me that my skin rashes actually were scars, and that I could forget to get rid of them. 1 week of saline loading, and she could not believe it that they were gone. ;)

The other skin rash would be characterized as pimples with pustules. also at the elbow, or the same location but between elbow and shoulder, or at the face, the neck or higher back (shoulder area). However, those would have a funny characteristic: When pressing them to get rid of the pustules, they would return the next day. And again, and again. Normally you do it once, and that's it...

The military site describes the effects of saline loading on bromide:
"Additional treatment of bromide toxicity has traditionally involved saline loading (administration of large quantities of sodium chloride in water, typically by vein), which enhances kidney excretion of bromide. The chloride ion from sodium chloride competes with and replaces the bromide ion throughout the body. While the usual half-life of bromide (the time for half the body's complement of bromide to be eliminated) is 12 to 14 days (Horowitz, 1997), a half-life of 65 hours has been calculated with saline loading."
Which is the timeframe within my skin aproximately cleared up too. Remember the half life of iodine is aprox 24h.

I've found some nice papers on the history of iodine, which actually are quite entertaining partly. It also shows that there always were 2 fronts: those who used extremely high dosages in their patients (apparently the potassium iodide form of iodine can be tolerated in much higher amounts then a solution such as lugols that has iodine together with potassium iodide in it?), in the gram area, versus others using the minimum possible dose to prevent goiter and labeling high dosages toxic. And I must admit, I can see a lot of side effects at potassium iodide in the gram area. And while the other point of view to not go higher then necessary for goiter prevention is somewhat logical, this point of view is missing the point on what dosages are neccessary to improve other biological functions and illnesses.

So what I am trying to say is no one really looked at dosages in the lower mg range (from 1mg-150mg) because of the fear of symptoms extremely high doses of iodine caused. I think this dosage area may hold great promise for detoxification, improving and decreasing the chance of getting cancer, increasing the cells sensitivity of hormones including insulin, etc... I think the low recommended iodine levels are not the conclusion of scientific effort, but of the lowest dosage possible to prevent goiter, and a big fear of what iodine can do in extremely high dosages. That's not science, at least not good one. And, iodine is maybe needed in virtually every cell of the body, but certainly not only the thyroid, but also breast tissue, prostate, and brain.

Now, if I am right, and the dosages recommended today are essentially reduced to goiter control, and stupidity of newborn, and driven by the fear of extremely high dose iodine treatments in the past 200 years, there will be a huge lack of research on iodine in moderate dosages, as well as a lack of adequate designed studies. Especially for topics such as detoxification, cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, arteriosclerosis, cholesterol... and the list goes on... That would mean that someone would have to go through all available research and see what can be proven by done research, and where new studies would have to be conducted. That would be a first step. I'd like to do it, but I don't have the time(and, I am not a qualified researcher... yet ;) ). Noone else seems to want to bother too...

Dr Brownstein mentioned that rabbits that got iodine did not develop arteriosclerosis, if I remember right, that study was replicated 4 times with identical outcome. It would be interesting to see if the prevalence of arteriosclerosis in countries with high iodine intake are indeed lower then in countries with low iodine intake. Haven't had the time yet. But I would bet there are no studies on this subject on humans.

We won't see big pharma doing it either, since there is no money to be made. And we probably won't see universities doing research, due to iodophobia ;).

Anyways, if you are interested, here are some papers on iodine that I have found today, on the history, for skin diseases etc. :

Use of potassium iodide in dermatology:updates on an old drug, 2013:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3754371/
Iodine history from 1811-1961 (This one is entertaining as well)
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1869599/
A look at iodine-induced hyperthyroidism: Recognition.:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1749581/
I would combine those papers with the history of iodine paper by Abraham, to get a good view at iodine's history.(to be found on his site, optimox.com)
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#88 finalgates

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 03:13 PM

i use 6,25mg iodine per day for one week and i have diarrhea and hypothyroid symtoms.will they go away?renfr you said you had hypothyroid symptoms.fow how long?

#89 BioFreak

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 03:25 PM

Do you use lugols? try adding some vitamin c (so that the brownish color disappears) to make the elemental iodine less reactive to your intestines... (and don't forget selenium...!!)
See lugols is a potent disinfectant. You might have killed off bacteria which can result in diarrhea.
You should also try different dosages, and salt loading if you have bromide intoxication symptoms (hypothyroid might be a sign of this).
Also, diarrhea does you no good, if adding vitamin c does not help you should stop for a while... and then start again with a different dosage.

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#90 finalgates

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 03:42 PM

yeah iodoral.thanks for suggestions man.i use 200mcg selenomethionine.vitamin c at the same time?





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