11 replies to this topic

[muyy1]

hi guys. I am a male, 24 years old. During the last 3 years, i feel my health is in a bad condition, feel sick all the time,cant concentrate,poor sleep,poor digestion,fatigue for no reason,SAD.etc.. and in the last year i discovered i had the adrenal fatigue,therefore i change my diet and add some supplements, and i feel a bit better. but i still have some sympton left. and hope u guys can give me some suggestions.

Diet:i became a strict paleo diet follower since last month,bc i noticed i may have leaky gut issue as well, and i feel much better after i eliminate my carb from my diet.
currently im nut,egg,dairy,legume,bean,processed food,preserved food,corn,gluten,grain,sugar,caffine free. my food is like half organic vege with sunflower,coconut,olive oil(no starch) and half meat. no carb at all

daily supplement:
D3 6000IU
Vita C 1000mg
b5 1000mg
magenisum malate 450mg
zinc:30mg
glutamine:5g
iodine:300mcg
fish oil
probiotic 50 billion
enzymes with each meal. (bc most time i feel bloated, gas, right after eating,and i experience hungry every night right b4 bed,around 10:30pm)

symptom:
i feel my main sympton is that i feel sleepy and fatigue right after lunch(breakfast is fine). and i get full easily,eventhough sometimes i only consume small amount of food. and i have to take a 30mins nap after lunch, otherwise i would experience extream fatigue and drained for the rest of my day

i have insomnia everyday. the pattern is like i wake up around 5am almost every morning for urine, after that i have difficulty to fall asleep again.,i can only fall asleep again about one hour later,and fully wake up aounrd 9am,. and my sleep quality is poor,my energy level is not good., eventhough i sleep total like 9 hours a day.

other sympton i:SAD,hair loss, fatigue for no reason, weak immune, IBS, muscle twitch premature ejaculation and extremly fatigue if i have sex last night

i went to see my family doctor. he said im fine.and nothing wrong with my body check as well (except low vitamin d level,22ng/ml in Oct.)

Edited by muyy1, 30 November 2013 - 12:15 AM.

[nickthird]

Adrenal fatigue is an unproven and unscientific diagnosis, which is not endorsed by the medical establishment.
Source: http://www.scienceba...a-fake-disease/

Pale-diet is unproven to help with anything.
Source: http://www.nhs.uk/ne...manfaddiet.aspx
Also "A 2011 ranking by U.S. News & World Report, involving a panel of 22 experts, ranked the Paleo diet lowest of the 20 diets evaluated based on factors including health, weight-loss and ease of following"
Source: http://health.usnews...ll-diets?page=3
BTW personally I think it may have some merit if you have bad eating habits to start with or have some condition that is worsened by eating the wrong food, but this has not been proven.

If you have SAD and low vitamin D you seriously should consider supplementing more of that. It's possible the two are related. Muscle twitches are also related to low vitamin D.

As for fatigue after eating - have you checked for diabetes?

What about your other symptoms have they all been with you for the last three years? no changes? or does it get better when you are less stressed or more happy or vice verse?

What about other tests - sleep tests or endocrinological tests or gut tests? usually the family doctor can't do all the tests so he can't really tell if you are alright, you need to visit a sleep specialist / endocrinologist / gasto guy.

[muyy1]

Adrenal fatigue is an unproven and unscientific diagnosis, which is not endorsed by the medical establishment.
Source: http://www.scienceba...a-fake-disease/

Pale-diet is unproven to help with anything.
Source: http://www.nhs.uk/ne...manfaddiet.aspx
Also "A 2011 ranking by U.S. News & World Report, involving a panel of 22 experts, ranked the Paleo diet lowest of the 20 diets evaluated based on factors including health, weight-loss and ease of following"
Source: http://health.usnews...ll-diets?page=3
BTW personally I think it may have some merit if you have bad eating habits to start with or have some condition that is worsened by eating the wrong food, but this has not been proven.

If you have SAD and low vitamin D you seriously should consider supplementing more of that. It's possible the two are related. Muscle twitches are also related to low vitamin D.

As for fatigue after eating - have you checked for diabetes?

What about your other symptoms have they all been with you for the last three years? no changes? or does it get better when you are less stressed or more happy or vice verse?

What about other tests - sleep tests or endocrinological tests or gut tests? usually the family doctor can't do all the tests so he can't really tell if you are alright, you need to visit a sleep specialist / endocrinologist / gasto guy.

thank you for ur reply. my health is getting better and better in the last three years. but its not a linear recovery, i rmb i couldnt even read a book or walk for 10 mins in 2012, but this year is much better, but sometime i have a reverse rebound. like today, i feel extremly fatigue just like old days.

ive check my diabete half year ago, gona check again next month

my family doc didnt let me do any test. he keeps saying im fine..and i do get much better when i feel happy!

[nickthird]

Being that your health is very unstable (one way or the other), and that it strongly has to do with your mood... You should run some tests still of course, but one possibility is that this is all somatization.
Source:
http://en.wikipedia....zation_disorder

I don't get it though your health is getting BETTER for the last three years? I thought that was when it started. So one day you fell terribly ill and since you have been in recovery? What triggered it?
Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia....ndrome#Symptoms

Edited by nickthird, 30 November 2013 - 03:09 AM.

[renfr]

Seems like your cortisol levels are out of whack (waking up at 5am and not being able to sleep for example and urination urges).
Adrenal fatigue is a myth, it's just that your hormone levels are not well synchronised, a stressful lifestyle can lead to this.
Hairloss might be due to either thyroid dysfunction (induced by cortisol) or androgenism (induced by cortisol as well).
I think your problem is with your low carb diet which adds up more stress to your system, you should up your carbs a little bit (low GI carbs) and take enough protein (at least 75g for a man).

You didn't say when you're taking all these supplements but zinc can cause drowsiness (and lower your cortisol).

Zinc and magnesium should be taken at night preferentially, also when you're taking 30mg be sure to monitor your copper intake so that it remains adequate, inadequate copper/zinc balance can disturb your adrenal function.

Take iodine, D3, glutamine and fish oil in the morning.

Oh... and wait, are you serious? 1000mg B5? I didn't even see that, no wonder why you're so tired and having health issues, I suggest you read that :
http://www.cyclingfo...nt-side-effects

Type "b5 megadose" in google, you'll find a lot of threads with the symptoms you're reporting, you should stop it right now before it causes irreversible damage.
1000mg B5 is just insane.

[dankis]

Pale-diet is unproven to help with anything.
Source: http://www.nhs.uk/ne...manfaddiet.aspx

Have you ever read it? They tried to debunk the effectiveness of paleo diet by pointing out flaws in one(!), just one study. They didn't give arguments against paleo diet (only low calcium). This is ridiculous, isn't it?

Also "A 2011 ranking by U.S. News & World Report, involving a panel of 22 experts, ranked the Paleo diet lowest of the 20 diets evaluated based on factors including health, weight-loss and ease of following"
Source: http://health.usnews...ll-diets?page=3

I discussed that ranking before. It is bullshit. When there are no studies about let's say "benefits of diet x to diabetes control" it get's very low score. The most important things for the diet to score high is :

How well does it conform to accepted dietary guidelines?

It is clear that it is flawed. If the diet doesn't insclude whole grains or dairy it is bad, because "experts" say that it has to, to be healthly. Saturated fat is bad. High fat is bad. Low carb is bad. And... CHOLESTEROL "Woah better don't touch it even with 5m stick or it will rape your mother, kill your dog and you will die from erectile dysfunction "

example:

Carbohydrates. At 23 percent of daily calories from carbs, it’s far below the government’s 45 to 65 percent recommendation.

Before i changed my diet to paleo I have had serious problems with food intolerances which made my health miserable. ELISA IgG food intolerance panel shown to be positive for almost everything. With the most remarkable casein level 3/3 and wheat, corn, shellfish, peanuts level 2/3. Now not a problem at all.

Edited by dankis, 30 November 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[muyy1]

Being that your health is very unstable (one way or the other), and that it strongly has to do with your mood... You should run some tests still of course, but one possibility is that this is all somatization.
Source:
http://en.wikipedia....zation_disorder

I don't get it though your health is getting BETTER for the last three years? I thought that was when it started. So one day you fell terribly ill and since you have been in recovery? What triggered it?
Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia....ndrome#Symptoms

i mean it did start 3 years ago, the first year was horrible,second year was ok,bc i thought it shouldnt last that long,and meantime i discover my problem and change my diet and add supplement, and right now i feel better than b4,but still long way to go! im going to heal my gut first i think. the ibs and leaky gut is one major issue, i made myself lots fermted foods.hope they can help

Pale-diet is unproven to help with anything.
Source: http://www.nhs.uk/ne...manfaddiet.aspx

Have you ever read it? They tried to debunk the effectiveness of paleo diet by pointing out flaws in one(!), just one study. They didn't give arguments against paleo diet (only low calcium). This is ridiculous, isn't it?

Also "A 2011 ranking by U.S. News & World Report, involving a panel of 22 experts, ranked the Paleo diet lowest of the 20 diets evaluated based on factors including health, weight-loss and ease of following"
Source: http://health.usnews...ll-diets?page=3

I discussed that ranking before. It is bullshit. When there are no studies about let's say "benefits of diet x to diabetes control" it get's very low score. The most important things for the diet to score high is :

How well does it conform to accepted dietary guidelines?

It is clear that it is flawed. If the diet doesn't insclude whole grains or dairy it is bad, because "experts" say that it has to, to be healthly. Saturated fat is bad. High fat is bad. Low carb is bad. And... CHOLESTEROL "Woah better don't touch it even with 5m stick or it will rape your mother, kill your dog and you will die from erectile dysfunction "

example:

Carbohydrates. At 23 percent of daily calories from carbs, it’s far below the government’s 45 to 65 percent recommendation.

Before i changed my diet to paleo I have had serious problems with food intolerances which made my health miserable. ELISA IgG food intolerance panel shown to be positive for almost everything. With the most remarkable casein level 3/3 and wheat, corn, shellfish, peanuts level 2/3. Now not a problem at all.

do you think i should add some slice of yam into my diet? or go 0% carb diet.

Seems like your cortisol levels are out of whack (waking up at 5am and not being able to sleep for example and urination urges).
Adrenal fatigue is a myth, it's just that your hormone levels are not well synchronised, a stressful lifestyle can lead to this.
Hairloss might be due to either thyroid dysfunction (induced by cortisol) or androgenism (induced by cortisol as well).
I think your problem is with your low carb diet which adds up more stress to your system, you should up your carbs a little bit (low GI carbs) and take enough protein (at least 75g for a man).

You didn't say when you're taking all these supplements but zinc can cause drowsiness (and lower your cortisol).

Zinc and magnesium should be taken at night preferentially, also when you're taking 30mg be sure to monitor your copper intake so that it remains adequate, inadequate copper/zinc balance can disturb your adrenal function.

Take iodine, D3, glutamine and fish oil in the morning.

Oh... and wait, are you serious? 1000mg B5? I didn't even see that, no wonder why you're so tired and having health issues, I suggest you read that :
http://www.cyclingfo...nt-side-effects

Type "b5 megadose" in google, you'll find a lot of threads with the symptoms you're reporting, you should stop it right now before it causes irreversible damage.
1000mg B5 is just insane.

my protein is surely enough, and what is the amount of carbs u suggest?
many adrenal fatigue experts saying the b5 is the essential nutrients for adrenal,they recommand 1000-1500mg daily.

[Tom_]

Adrenal fatigue does not exist and any 'expert' on the matter is an idiot, a money grabbing quack or both.

You have a depressive disorder. Ask to see another doctor. You need to have proper bloods (fasting glucose, b12, LFT's, TFT's, F/CBC's, BMP (or whatever in that isn't covered by the other tests)). It's unlikely but could be depression secondary to primary hypothyroidism, sub-clinical hypothyroidism or another disorder entirely although thyroid is by far the most common.

The early awakenings, gut problems, sexual dysfunction, somatic anxiety, sadness, fatigue, specific decline in neuropsychological functioning (short term memory problems as seen by difficulty reading and the like) and general somoatizaition are all screaming signs for a depressive disorder. Taking into account the gut problem you would probs be best served with a tricyclic antidepressant (due to anticholinergic effects) at low doses 50-75mg of amitriptyline or equivalent but you might struggle to get that prescribed first off - another sedating antidepressant in that case is an option -. Rigid sleep hygiene and bright light therapy will help with the SAD aspect and the sleep problems. CBT with or without some mindfulness practice will help with improving the rest of the symptoms. Free computerized CBT is available and very effective (if you can't get hold of a therapist) and mindfulness can be found all around the internet. Hypnotherapy while not having a great deal of evidence shows great promise for insomnia and 1-4 sessions will decide whether its effective or not.

The other possibility or co-morbidity is a sleep disorder. It could be the cause or could 'just also be there' making things worse. Its not likely to be narcolepsy or idiopathic hypersomnia, a primary circadian rhythm disorder is possible but they are rare and often they are diagnosed when the cause is poor sleep hygiene. Psychophysiological insomnia may play a part but should resolve with the depression treatment. Sleep state misinterpretation syndrome is possible but again if its relevent unless it doesn't resolve with the depression treatment it should be ignored. That leaves the most likely possibility - breathing disorders of sleep. If you are overweight, have a family history of them, smoke, have been told you snore very loudly, seem to stop breathing briefly during sleep, have any breathing disorders (COPD, bronchitis re-occurent or otherwise, lots of colds, childhood history of asthma etc..) then you should be evaluated for sleep related breathing disorders (primary snoring, sleep hypo/apnea, upper airway resistance syndrome are the most common).

[muyy1]

Adrenal fatigue does not exist and any 'expert' on the matter is an idiot, a money grabbing quack or both.

You have a depressive disorder. Ask to see another doctor. You need to have proper bloods (fasting glucose, b12, LFT's, TFT's, F/CBC's, BMP (or whatever in that isn't covered by the other tests)). It's unlikely but could be depression secondary to primary hypothyroidism, sub-clinical hypothyroidism or another disorder entirely although thyroid is by far the most common.

The early awakenings, gut problems, sexual dysfunction, somatic anxiety, sadness, fatigue, specific decline in neuropsychological functioning (short term memory problems as seen by difficulty reading and the like) and general somoatizaition are all screaming signs for a depressive disorder. Taking into account the gut problem you would probs be best served with a tricyclic antidepressant (due to anticholinergic effects) at low doses 50-75mg of amitriptyline or equivalent but you might struggle to get that prescribed first off - another sedating antidepressant in that case is an option -. Rigid sleep hygiene and bright light therapy will help with the SAD aspect and the sleep problems. CBT with or without some mindfulness practice will help with improving the rest of the symptoms. Free computerized CBT is available and very effective (if you can't get hold of a therapist) and mindfulness can be found all around the internet. Hypnotherapy while not having a great deal of evidence shows great promise for insomnia and 1-4 sessions will decide whether its effective or not.

The other possibility or co-morbidity is a sleep disorder. It could be the cause or could 'just also be there' making things worse. Its not likely to be narcolepsy or idiopathic hypersomnia, a primary circadian rhythm disorder is possible but they are rare and often they are diagnosed when the cause is poor sleep hygiene. Psychophysiological insomnia may play a part but should resolve with the depression treatment. Sleep state misinterpretation syndrome is possible but again if its relevent unless it doesn't resolve with the depression treatment it should be ignored. That leaves the most likely possibility - breathing disorders of sleep. If you are overweight, have a family history of them, smoke, have been told you snore very loudly, seem to stop breathing briefly during sleep, have any breathing disorders (COPD, bronchitis re-occurent or otherwise, lots of colds, childhood history of asthma etc..) then you should be evaluated for sleep related breathing disorders (primary snoring, sleep hypo/apnea, upper airway resistance syndrome are the most common).

my thyroid,tsh t3 t4 is ok.And for the sleep prblem. if my gut and stomach is ok,i have no probelm to get a good sleep(but still urine at the sleep time). i feel my sleep disorder is caused by my gut. and i dont think ssri is a good way to cure,i believe they can lead another issue in the future. and by body shape is ok. BMI is 20

i do believe the depression is the case. i feel better in the sunny summer than in the cloudy,snowy winter!

[Tom_]

I don't think an SSRI is a good way to deal with it. I do think an antidepressant is needed and I think anticholinergics might help your gut. Tricylic antidepressants will both help with depression and possess anticholinergic effects. I also think your gut problems might be paritally psychosomatic and this is another indication for antidepressants.

[muyy1]

I don't think an SSRI is a good way to deal with it. I do think an antidepressant is needed and I think anticholinergics might help your gut. Tricylic antidepressants will both help with depression and possess anticholinergic effects. I also think your gut problems might be paritally psychosomatic and this is another indication for antidepressants.

is this means i have a weak seretonin receptor in my brain? to cause my depression?

[Tom_]

It is a lot more complicated than that - it includes upwards of 30 neurotransmitters, various hormones and the like and how they all interact with each other. Psychotherapy and behavioral activation are an important part of treatment and treatment needs to be rigorous and evidence based because of the length of your episode. It puts you at higher risk for worsening depression, recurrence and treatment resistance.