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Regimen - A Foray Deep Into the Realms of Self Improvement

regimen nootropics meditation yoga jing

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#1 GoingPrimal

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 09:28 PM


Hey everyone! I've posted a few times on Longecity before but have mainly sat in the shadows and lurked :ph34r: I wanted to make this post in the hopes that someone can benefit from it, as I have certainly benefited from reading many posts by you wonderful folk on this forum.

So some basic background info is in order. I'm 24, 5'11 and 163 some odd pounds. No history of medical conditions, always been a healthy, happy dude.

I see all this supplementing and tweaking of lifestyle as a natural extension of my desire to live as best a life as I can. I'm not too hung up on it but see it as a fun way to self experiment and see how streamlined I can get. Right now I have the money to support my supplement habit but I really view the real "meat and potatoes" of this regimen to be healthy foods, healthy lifestyle and a focus on spiritual development, NOT supplements or nootropics, or even life extension.

That said, let's get started ;)

Supplements

For smarts - usually not daily
Aniracetam - I don't take daily as most people do with nootropics. Lately it has been daily but thats because I've had a lot of studying to do. When I do take it, I tend to take ~ 500 mg in the morning for studying purposes and the same in the afternoon. Ani is definitely my favorite of the racetams I've tried so far. Others include oxi, prami, noopept and sunifram (not technically a racetam, I know.) I liked oxi, currently on a 5 gm sample of prami and hard to put my finger on it, but will prob save my money for something else. Noopept and sunifram I found to be pretty disappointing really.
Piracetam - I take piracetam a few times a week. I always take it before and during drinking for neuroprotection, and definitely take it if I know I'll be drinking more than usual so I keep a level head. Found it works surprisingly well for this. Btw, I average about two nights of drinking a week, two beers or glasses of wine each time. That's just average, I am still relatively young and my friends do enjoy the booze... :blink:
ALCAR - tons of benefits, don't need to go too in depth here. I take anywhere from 500 mg to 1500 mg a day, for cognitive and especially cellular benefits.
Sulbutiamine - Maybe once or occasionally twice a week. I'll take half of a 200 mg pill if I know I'll need the dopamine get-r-done attitude, or occasionally a whole one on days I open at work. After this bottle I may not purchase again.
DMAE - Don't really use this one much. Every now and then I'll play around with it, maybe 3 or 4 times a month.

General health - most of these are taken daily.
Magnesium - awesome supplement. Currently using a magnesium chloride topical spray and epsom salts. Would like to experiment with some of the higher quality magnesium pills at some point, citrate or threonate.
CoQ10 - I'm big into cellular health, and CoQ is pretty important for that. Most days I take 100 mg in the morning, along with shilajit and pqq - NOT the LifeExtension formula, just as separate supplements.
PQQ - Cellular health, mitochondrial regeneration.
C60 - Very interesting supplement. At first I was not impressed but also wasn't expecting much. I have noticed much what others have noted in terms of being able to do a "few more reps", or running the same amount being easier. I don't have any quantifiable data to back this up, but I would definitely say this is not placebo effect. I take one dropper's worth of Vaughter Wellness' C60 about every 3 days, sometimes every other day.
Resveratrol - picked some up on a whim, 500 mgs. I was taking one pill a day for a while but I now I make one pill last 4 days or so. Just don't need that much resveratrol at this point I feel. I am interested in pterostilbene however so if anyone has any good bulk sources feel free to aware me.
MSM - detoxifying, connective tissue, skin and hair health, really has tons of benefits. Maintenance dose is around 2-5 grams most days.
Colostrum - just got this one. Immune boosting and filled with growth factors. We'll see how I like it, its pretty expensive.
Hydrolyzed Collagen - connective tissue, collagen production.
Methyl B12 - not taken daily.
EGCG - need to get some empty pills so I can cap this, so bitter.
SAM-E - One 400 mg pill on days I open, usually just once a week, with B-vitamins.
Vitamin D/K2 - 5000 iu D and 93 mcg K2 as MK-7. 5-7 times a week in the winter and fall, less in spring and summer.
Fish oil - Looking to upgrade to cod liver oil.

Working out
Whey protein - self explanatory. Usually just 30 grams after a workout. Staple.
Creatine - muscle volume, ATP, yada yada. 5 grams daily. Staple.
BCAAs - ~ 6 grams post workout.
Beta-Alanine - Around 3 or 4 grams a day. Helps prevent lactic acid build up, good for NGF right? Staple.
Taurine - Cell volume, cardio protective, cheap. 500 mg on days I'm not working out, 1 gm on days I am split between pre and post workout drinks.
Betaine - Liver health, methylation, increases strength.
Nettle Root Extract - more for estrogen detoxification than any testosterone boosting qualities. I'm young so hopefully shouldn't need help in the test department. I take maybe 500 mg twice a week. It's more of a "Eh, might as well" type thing than any aggressive usage.
DAA - unsure about this one in terms of increasing glutamate in the brain. Used like nettle root, once or twice a week on heavy lifting days.

Supplemental Herbs/Herbal Extracts - I'm big into Traditional Chinese Medicine and Ayurveda. Within TCM I specifically try to build and protect what are called the Three Treasures - Jing or Essence, Chi (Qi) or Energy, and Shen or Spirit/Higher Mind. For a basic understanding think of a candle. The wax and wick are the Jing, the flame is Chi and the light and aura emanating from the candle is the Shen. The more wax and the bigger the wick, the bigger and brighter the flame of the candle, and the more light it can ultimately emit. You want to build and protect your Jing, which can then be turned into Chi and Shen. As far as I've come to understand it, Jing is kind of equivalent to endocrine function and DNA integrity. Chi is your daily energy and can be thought of as equivalent to metabolism, mitochondrial function and over all cellular health, as well as the electro-chemical flows of energy throughout the body. Shen is harder to equate with western scientific terms. If I were to relate it to something physical it'd be neurotransmitters, although Shen really encompasses so much more. It's your Higher Mind, wisdom, compassion, generosity, peace and contentment. Interestingly a lot of the Jing herbs are herbs with youth-anizing components, like growth factors or hyaluronic acid, or stilbenes, or substances that increase Superoxide Dismutase.

Franken-Tincture - I take a bunch of Traditional Chinese and Ayurvedic herbs, let them sit in some strong alcohol for a month or so, strain and then hot water extract the herbs. Then I mix both decoctions and take a tablespoon of the liquid each day. Usually includes reishi, lion's mane, chaga, he shou wu, gotu kola, astragalus, ashwagandha, schizandra berries, cistanche and some other goodies I'm probably forgetting. This probably doesn't have big doses of each herb per tablespoon but acts as a good multi-spectrum tonic, like a liquid chyawanprash.
Ashwagandha - stress relieving, brain antioxidant, increases Ojas, the Indian equivalent of Jing, has NGF properties too IIRC.
He Shou Wu - premier yin Jing herb, full of stilbenes, increases SOD, blood cleanser, liver cleanser, classic "beauty tonic".
Schizandra Berries - called the five flavored fruit in China. Possess an astringent quality, helping you leak less Jing. Nourishes all three treasures.
Chyawanprash - An Ayurvedic mix of many, many herbs in a base of Amla berry and ghee. So, so awesome.
Reishi - cracked-cell spore powder and hydroethanolic extract - We know of all the good benefits of reishi mushroom from the western science perspective, with it's immunomodulating and anti inflammatory properties. It's also revered by Taoist and TCM practitioners as the ultimate shen tonic, while also nourishing jing and chi, so you best believe I'm using it ;)
Shilajit - rich in cell detoxifying fulvic acids, rich in minerals. In Ayurveda it is said to increase Ojas, which is the Indian equivalent of Jing, and also has the property of yogavahi, meaning it increases the efficacy of any other medicine taken with it. Funny how the Ayurvedic practitioners and yogis of old new of this...
Cistanche - increases yang Jing, increase body's own production of hylauronic acid.
Prepared Rehmannia - perhaps the quintessential yin Jing tonic herb.
Goji Berries - high orac rating, high in beta-carotene, and a renowned yin Jing tonic, as well as having blood cleansing properties according to TCM.
Lion's Mane - NGF
Cat's Claw Extract - taken more for inflammation reduction, though the immune boosting aspects are good too. Not daily.
Gynostemma - adaptogenic, antioxidant, with 75 different saponins, four times as many as panax ginseng.
Tulsi Tea and Fresh Tulsi Plant - the premier Sattva promoting herb within Ayurveda. Sattva is an Indian concept similar to Shen.
Dragon Herbs Supreme Shen - first time with a Dragon Herbs product. This one is an 8:1 liquid tincture of Chinese asparagus root, Wild Reishi mushroom, Tibetan Rhodiola, Albizzia Flower, Longan fruit, Spirit Poria mushroom, polygala root, American Ginseng and Luo Han Guo fruit. The first time I took it, I took 3 dropper-fulls. Felt like I had taken phenibut. Since then I've taken anywhere from 3-9 dropper-fulls a day with much more subtle effects.
Dragon Herbs Will Power - another Shen tonic. 10:1 powdered extract of Polygala root, Dragon bone, Eleuthero, Ophiopogon tuber, Chinese Asparagus root, Schisandra, Spirit Poria, Astragalus, Codonopsis, Chinese White Peony flower, Chinese Licorice root and aged tangerine rind. Just received both of these Dragon Herbs formulas about a week ago so too early to really report much.
Deer Antler extract - not for any IGF 1 reasons, as the amount thats in it is too small and probably isn't absorbed even sublingually. I take it for it being one of the strongest yang Jing tonics in Traditional Chinese Herbalism. Not to be taken for an extended period of time.
Sheep Placenta - one of the strongest Jing tonics in TCM, plus extremely nutrient dense. 3-6 500 mg caps.
Kelp Granules - minerals and IODINE!!!
Dandy Blend - detoxifying



Basic Dietary Habits -

Focus on the most nutrient dense foods I can get my hands on. Lots of fat-soluble nutrients from high quality sources - grass fed butter, cuts of meat, free range chicken eggs, fresh seafood. Looking for a lot of leafy greens and non-starchy veggies, berries when in season. I also like to eat a lot of spices and herbs as these are where the real good stuffs at. Lots of turmeric, curry, cumin, cayenne, italian spices blend, oregano, basil, rosemary, garlic, etc. I try to keep things relatively low-carb except for after heavy workouts. I consume a fair amount of miso, usually at least a tablespoon a day. Probiotics = awesome. Usually not soy based miso but sometimes it is, and I'm not worried about it being soy. I rarely want sweets and never want "junk food" like doritos or the like, but I am by no means afraid to enjoy the occasional treat, whether it be for my birthday or a holiday or what have you. I also supplement my diet with a spirulina/chlorella/wheat grass powder blend that I made myself. Bought a pound of each a while back and they sure have lasted a while. I take some when I can, I'm guessing three or four times a week.

Currently testing out Bullet-Proof Coffee in the mornings, I like it just fine. This means on most days I don't eat any real solid food till about noon, even if I'm working out around 10 or 11 am. I try not to eat past 6 or 7 so you could say I'm on an intermittent fasting program, and it works well. I'll keep this up for another few months and after that this may or may not continue When I'm hungry, I eat. I have a body type that could gain fat pretty easily if I was over eating, but since I don't I have pretty low body fat, just taking a guess at anywhere from 9-12%. In the summer I try to slim down more. For the bullet proof coffee the only thing I've changed is that usually instead of coffee I use a good Pu Erh black tea. Speaking of tea I also drink a few different kinds of green tea in the afternoon. I was fortunate enough to travel to China a few years ago so I splurged and bought some quality teas. Green teas include matcha, uji kabuse, a matcha/sencha blend, and jasmine green tea from China. Also use a nice oolong tea that my step-dad had picked up for me in Taiwan.


Workouts

Right now I have an undiagnosed shoulder injury so I've had to lay off of upper body development for a while. It's basically some tightness and knots in a few areas but I'm not going to push it. Been doing squats and leg workouts still, and interestingly the heavy squatting by itself seems to have positively affected body composition more than expected - I've actually put on weight with nothing but squats and leg exercises and judging by how much my abs are showing I haven't really put on any fat. If I didn't have the shoulder injury I would be following a pretty basic workout regimen, chest/tri's one day, back/bi's another day, legs one day, shoulders and misc. on the fourth day. Abs thrown in twice a week, no given day. Focus is on heavy, compound lifts - deads, squats, bench, pull ups, bent over rows, farmer walks, you get the picture. Nothings set in stone, I'm always experimenting with new techniques, but focusing on good form and lifting explosively remains constant.

As for cardio, some days I cycle or row at the gym for 20 minutes or so. I much rather prefer doing some trail running instead, theres a nice two mile trail with plenty of hills that I can sprint up if I so choose. I do like HIIT and when the weather's good I do a few sprints up a steep hill by my house and then jog back home. I do more cardio in the spring, summer and fall than in the winter.



Lifestyle

I'm not too interested in the rat race of material living. I'd much rather have a small house in a nice woodsy environment than a super nice car, big house and yachts. That said I'd like to live "comfortably" and have enough extra cash to travel on the cheap when I can.

I naturally seem to be less stressed about things than most and because of my interest in yoga and Buddhist mediation I would say I actually practice non-reactivity. As a funny side note, when I was maybe 5 or 6 I got an EEG for some reason or another and the doctor said that my brain waves resembled those of "someone on horse tranquilizers" :blink: I'd love to be able to go back now and ask the doctor what the hell that means, but I've always used it as an excuse to explain why I was late to class or as an answer for when people ask why I'm so "chill".

I work a pretty easy job, assistant managing a local organic market, going to school part time and looking to move out of Maryland within a year or so, maybe to somewhere in Colorado or Washington state. Alternatively I may do work-away and try to travel more throughout Europe.


Meditation / Yoga

I'm really into meditation and yoga and have been for the last 3 years. I've made progressing in meditation a big goal in my life after reading a LOT about meditative states and the experiences that come with them. I practice within a Tibetan Buddhist lineage and am really trying to focus more time and energy into my practice.

I can say with confidence that this aspect of my "regimen" is not only the most important to me but also the one thats had the biggest impact on my life. Don't get me wrong, I've had phenomenal results and changes in terms of diet, exercise and supplemental substances in terms of the improvement of quality of living that's had, but nothing really compares to the effects of specifically rooting out negative qualities of your mind or personality with these powerful methods.

While real yoga encompasses things like meditation and breathing exercises I will address them separately here, and refer to the postures, or asanas, as yoga. I do yoga (the postures) because they provide benefits that you really can't get doing anything else. I'll leave the more mystical aspects aside for now and speak only of the physical and mental aspects of these practices. Yoga postures are, as far as I've found, the only way to directly stimulate and regulate various organs and endocrine glands. For example, by doing sarvangasana, or the shoulder stand, you are directly massaging fresh blood into the thyroid and parathyroid glands, while at the same time removing wastes. The headstand, or sirsasana, increases blood flow to the brain, and is said to specifically tone the pineal and pituitary glands. The forward and back bending postures and especially spinal twisting postures all massage and regulate the stomach, spleen, kidneys, liver and adrenals, as well as the spine. There are other practices, like shatkarmas (cleansing actions), mudras (seals or gestures) and bandhas (locks) that can be used for total body toning. For example, uddiyana bandha, in which you somewhat forcefully suck in the abdominal cavity, squeezes and massages all the abdominal organs. Jalandhara bandha not only compresses the thyroid and parathyroid glands but also the carotid arteries - this immediately lowers blood pressure. It's in this manner that the system of yoga can be used to revitalize the entire body in ways that other exercises or supplements can't, and there is so, so much more to these practices than what I can speak of within this post.

Pranayama also has profound benefits. Again, I won't be getting into any thoughts on whether prana is a real energy or not or whether you can learn to control this energy, but instead keeping the focus of this post on purely the physical and mental benefits. Various pranayamas have various physical and mental effects. For example, ujjayi pranayama, in which you contract the glottis in the throat while breathing in and out, exerts a slight pressure on the carotid arteries, again lowering blood pressure. The sound is said to be very soothing to body and mind. I would say by far the most beneficial pranayama one can do is nadi shodhana, in which you use your fingers to alternate breaths between the left and right nostrils. Breathing through the left nostril has been found to activate the parasympathetic nervous system, which controls the relaxation response. Breathing through the right activates the sympathetic nervous system, which deals with the fight or flight response. By alternating between the two, you learn to harmonize both aspects of the nervous system. There are also mucous membranes in each nostril, each one connecting to a hemisphere in the brain. Thus you are also alternatively stimulating each hemisphere and equalizing them.

The practice of kumbakha, or systematic breath retention, is also an awesome bio-hack, and one practiced by yogis since ancient times. I'm sure most of you are aware of the benefits of training or living at high altitude. One of the reasons for this is that it's thought that cells' mitochondria have to become more efficient with the reduced amount of oxygen that is available, leading to increased overall robustness and vitality. One can move to the Rockies or buy an expensive hypoxic tent to sleep in. Or one can practice pranayama and kumbakha. Granted, to see the same benefits at the level of the mitochondria you'd have to spend a fair amount of time practicing these things as real yogis do. For the majority of us, however, we simply won't make the time for such intensive practice, but can still reap many of the other benefits these practices provide.

For anyone who is interested in learning more about yoga I can't recommend the Bihar Yoga books highly enough. I recommend starting with Asana Pranayama Mudra Bandha but really, you can't beat A Systematic Course in the Ancient Tantric Techniques of Yoga and Kriya. These are the types of books that not only explain the practices from a yogic perspective but also get very detailed about the effects these practices have on a physiological level.

For anyone who has their supplement and lifestyle regimens on lock and is looking for the next step, please consider looking into a serious yoga and meditative practice, and try to see how far down the rabbit hole you can go ;)



Adjuncts

Always trying to learn new things.

I play guitar out of personal enjoyment and because it's good for the brain.

Currently learning the ins and outs of chess, find it useful for learning how to plan ahead.

Was experimenting with Dual N Back. Need to get back on it but with classes coming to an end I've been busy.

I find social interaction to be both highly enjoyable and a way to monitor overall cognition. To try to remain witty and engaged in fast paced conversation is not something that comes naturally to me so it's a good gauge of how "on" I am. I'm naturally introverted, but have specifically learned and practiced how to be both more comfortable in social situations and how to enjoy it more. It comes pretty naturally to me now but I still find observing social dynamics to be quite fun.

Saunas - to sweat it out. Very impressed by the high opinions the Finnish have of saunas during a brief trip to Finland. Try to get in at least once a week, sometimes 3 times a week.

Fasting - I'd like to say I still fast fully one day a week like I used to, but I don't. However I am in looking to get back into this practice. I do veggie juice fasts when the weathers warm, and miso/bone broth fasts in the winter. The longest I've fasted is 3 days, and I'd like to try a week long fast but who knows when I'll get around to that.

Cold adaption - try to do the cold shower thing daily, though it really winds up being month long spurts followed by laziness.



Questions? Comments, critiques, suggestions? Let me know what you think.
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#2 Ames

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 05:01 PM

Your enthusiasm for self improvement is enviable.

The only critiques I have are:

a.) How do you know what effects (short and long term) each supplement is having? I find it to be true that most supplements have negative effects that outweight the positive, over time, with a rare few being worth keeping for anything but periodic or emergency use. If you get to the point where your system is saturated with or has adapted negatively to something that needs to be removed, how will you know what is causing the harm? My advice is to test everything that you take, carefully and alone, for at least a couple of weeks before you add it to a stack. Although, I've had significant and alarming negative effects for supplements that took a month or more to manifest.

b.) Be careful of heavy metals in all of those assumably raw or minimally processed plants that you are taking. Normally, it wouldn't be too much of a worry for most things but it might be for such a dense stack.

c). With all of those spices, herbs, and greens that you are targeting in your diet, you are likely going to be potently agonizing or antagonizing a lot of liver enzymes with regularity. It's better to be well versed on the enzymatic influence of every spice that you try to imbibe on a regular basis before you target it in health practice.

Edited by golgi1, 19 December 2013 - 05:10 PM.

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#3 GoingPrimal

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 02:11 PM

Good points, golgi1. I'll have to look into the more specifics of liver enzymes. My post makes it seem like I'm loading each plate down with multiple spices, which isn't the case - it's more like one meal I use curry, while for my chicken salad I'll use some italian spices. The body is a complicated piece of equipment so I probably should look into that.

And again, the chinese herbs I'm taking all aren't daily - right now the regimen is fairly simple, with Reishi, Ginseng, Astragalus and the Will Power formula being the only real daily ones. Maybe some ashwagandha some days as well.

Thanks for the input!

#4 creature

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 11:25 PM

I like the sound of your routine. Would you say the meditation/yoga aspects of your life helped increase willpower to accomplish some of the other things?
Also how often do you take the reishi? I bought some on sale awhile back but have only brewed it twice, when I was feeling sick.
Lastly where do you get the Dragon herbs supreme shen? I sounds like good stuff, don't know what about half of it is though.

#5 GoingPrimal

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:10 PM

Yeah, the meditation and yoga have SIGNIFICANTLY improved my willpower to accomplish most anything. Being able to sit still for extended periods of time, ignoring the urge to get up and DO something and instead returning the attention back to the object of meditation, builds the willpower very nicely. The Yamas and Niyamas of Raja Yoga, or restraints and observances, do as well, especially things like Tapas, Brahmacharya or Santosha. Most people aren't into these aspects of Yoga but they are extremely beneficial and powerful. You don't have to go balls to the wall with them if you don't want, but if you're interested try a month of Satya (truthfulness) or Brahmacharya (Abstaining from Sexual Activity, including masturbation, sexual fantasies, yada yada). You'll see how much it improves your day to day living - nothing against sex of course, but being in control of your sexual urges is saucesome.

Funny to note the posts on this board and others about the improved mental and emotional capabilities when people abstain from masturbation (Brahmacharya) - this is par for the course for any spiritual practice, be it Yoga, Buddhist, Taoist or otherwise...

I take reishi pretty much daily, in one form or another. I've got a liquid extract right now, so a few squirts a day is a given, as well as access to a couple powdered varieties at work (I work in an organic market/cafe, we add different "super foods" to smoothies upon request). It's definitely a staple. Do you have it sliced or powdered? Reishi's one of those mushrooms that needs to be extracted, and a hot water extract provides different constituents than an alcohol extract - you can do a dual extract yourself or just search around for a good dual extracted product. It's great as a daily tonic.

I got the Supreme Shen from iherb.com. Can find good products there for pretty cheap. gonegreenstore.com also has a pretty good selection, and some products that iherb doesn't. It's a great product, with concentrated extracts of the top "shen" herbs, even tastes really good.

#6 Artificiality

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:37 PM

Great post, very informative! I too have been getting into traditional chinese medicine as of late and feel like its definitely been helping me on my journey towards healing and self-improvement. For the most part I started with some dragon herbs products and just recently ordered some bulk herbs from mountainrose(Rehmannia, Fo-Ti, etc). I've been preparing them as a tea which is easy enough, but your decoction sounded pretty interesting to me. Do you have any good links/books that you would recommend a novice to read?

#7 GoingPrimal

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 12:13 AM

Nice! I had a big one pound bag of he shou wu (Fo-Ti) from mountain rose herbs, lasted me damn near a year.

I do have some good book recommendations actually. The Ancient Wisdom of the Chinese Tonic Herbs, by Ron Teeguarden, is an a really detailed and useful primer on the herbs themselves, along with some background and recipes. It should be noted that Ron Teeguarden is the man behind Dragon Herbs as you probably know, so take that as you will, but his book (and even website and blog) are very informative.

The next two books are phenomenal and are much more in depth, though don't deal exclusively with the tonic herbs. That said, they will give you a much more complete picture of what the tonic herbs aim to accomplish, along with much more fascinating information on a variety of interesting topics. The first is The Tao of Health, Sex and Longevity, the second The Complete Book of Chinese Health and Healing, both by Daniel Reid. I was surprised when TCBCHH mentioned Piracetam and other nootropics.

Good mentions are The Way of Ayurvedic Herbs as well as The Way of Chinese Herbs, both by Michael Tierra.

I definitely recommend getting a feel for the herbs themselves, learning a bit about their specific benefits, and then buying in bulk like you're doing, maybe even creating a large supply of tincture. Both books by Daniel Reid explain different formulas for doing so, as well as his recipe for something called "Spring Wine", which I'm currently in the process of making.. Needless to say, it sounds quite powerful.
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#8 creature

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 03:05 AM

Thanks

I have the sliced reishi. If I had powdered I would take it far more often. Maybe I should just stick it through a blender...

I actually checked out The complete book of Chinese health and healing from the library awhile back and haven't gotten around to reading it, but now that you say its good I might get past the first page. I actually checked it out because I saw nootropics were mentioned in it. I've had half a desire to get into meditation for awhile now, and with all the good things people keep telling me its about time I start.

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#9 Artificiality

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 06:57 AM

Thanks man, I'll check them out. Yep I had heard about Ron Teeguarden's book and was on the fence, but I think I'll pick it up now as a starting point. I'll definitely look into those other books too, appreciate your help!





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