13 replies to this topic

[Dr Dastan]

Hello,
I am new to longecity and the subject of nootropics. I really need some help here.
I have been taking antidepressants for the last seven years. Currently i am taking escitalopram (10 mg) and mirtazapine (15 mg, at night).

I am doing a job and studying a post-graduate course which requires a lot of studying. I want to use some nootropics which do NOT interact with my antidepressants and improve my concentration, memory and mental energy.

I would be very grateful if someone can help me in this regard. I am considering the following nootropics but other supplements can also be suggested.

1. Ginko biloba
2. L-Tyrosine
3. DMAE
4. ALCAR
5. Huperzine A
6. L-Theanine
7. Piracetam + choline

( I have read that Rhodiola can interact with antidepressants).

Thank you very much for reading. I will be checking this page for replies, and i am eagerly waiting for some suggestions.

(P.S, english is not my first language so please pardon any mistakes).

[etizsupplyusa.com]

What is the mechanism for nootropics interacting with nootropics? Is it SSRI's, SNRI's, all antidepressants like tricyclics? Does this apply to racetams? This is curious and interesting, what are the side effects?

[Nootropic Milk Hotel]

I have read that SAMe is actually synergistic with SSRIs; it would be worth looking into.

[Dr Dastan]

Thanks for the suggestion.
SAM-e is not available in my country. It is expensive to have it imported.

Is it cosidered to be a nootropic ?

Edited by Dr Dastan, 08 January 2014 - 06:42 PM.

[KimberCT]

The only nootropic that I've tried which seemed to interact with my SSRI was Bacopa. The combo caused nonstop yawning and sleepiness.

Your list looks fine (including rhodiola). I'd be wary of the Huperzine though. Strong, long acting stuff.

[Jeoshua]

What is the mechanism for nootropics interacting with nootropics? Is it SSRI's, SNRI's, all antidepressants like tricyclics? Does this apply to racetams? This is curious and interesting, what are the side effects?

This seemingly simple question is actually so complex, you might as well ask "how does wind affect the weather around the globe". Nootropics and Monoamine-active antidepressants are actually both very broad classes, with many mechanisms of action and differing interactions. And that's not even considering different interactions with peoples' individual brain chemistry and other effects of the body as a whole system. There are so many forces at play, to even begin to answer that question, it must first be broken down to which Nootropic, which Antidepressant, and what that person's body chemistry is.

#NoMagicPill

[thomasthomas]

I'm also on Citalopram 20mg / day

I've had no problems with: Piracetam, Aniracetam, Pramiracetam, Oxiracetam, Noopept, ALCAR, DMAE or Choline.

I have had problems with Rhodiola. I can't say whether this definitely due to the combination of Citalopram + Rhodiola,
but I used to wake up with a pounding heart, feeling like I was having a heart attack.

[mrd1]

1. Ginko biloba - Issue, "The largest and best-designed study to examine Ginkgo biloba has found it ineffective in reducing the incidence of dementia, Alzheimer’s disease, or in reducing the rate of cognitive decline in older adults." (http://sciencebasedp...-doesnt-matter/)
2. L-Tyrosine Issue #1 - " Currently no evidence that L-Tyrosine supplementation can improve memory function from baseline, but may be able to attenuate a decrease in memory formation associated with acute stressors" (Examine.com)
Issue #2 - "One study ... noted that supplementation was associated with a greater reduction in symptoms as assessed by ADHD-RS; this study is also confounded with the inclusion of other nutrients (1,000mg of Vitamin C, 220mg of calcium citrate, 75mg of vitamin B6 and 400μg of folate, 500mg of L-Lysine and 2,500-4,500mg L-cysteine, and 200-400μg of Selenium).[9]" (Examine)

3. DMAE Issue- Very high doses on sick population still no statistically significant effect "V0191 (DMAE Pyroglutamate) in 55-90 year old persons (mean age 72.2) with mild cognitive impairment taking 1500mg of the supplement daily at breakfast over 24 weeks noted that although there was a trend to more response with treatment than placebo (defined as more than a 4 point improvement on the ADAS-cog rating scale), there were no statistically significant improvements nor improvement on global assessments.[3]" (Examine)
4. ALCAR - possibly effective given current evidence
5. Huperzine A - possibly effective given current evidence
6. L-Theanine - possibly effective given current evidence
7. Piracetam + choline -probably effective given current evidence

*4.,5., 6., and 7 I would only consider effective for mild cognitive enhancement IMO. NOTHING like limitless!

[mrd1]

Now I suppose I should disclose what I have just taken this morning for depression, adhd, and cognitive enhancement,

30 mg of adderall xr ( I take another 25 mg in a few hours for a total of 55 mg/day)
225 mg of nuvigil
750 mg of lithium carbonate
80 mg of strattera
150 mg of effexor
1 mg of tenex ( + 1 mg at another time for a total of 2 mg/day)

10 mg of noopept
10 mg of sunifiram
15 mg of coluracetam
120 mg of DXM HBr
625 mg of aniracetam

If I take a second or third dose of racetam like substances it is always as follows:
noopept 10 mg
sunifiram 5 mg
coluracetam 10 mg

On most days I also include:
green tea extract 50% egcg std.
sulbutamine 625 mg 1-3 x a day
cdp choline 625 mg 1-3x a day
ashwaganda 625-1250 1-3x a day
panax ginseng 624 mg 1-3x a day
lions mane mushroom 1250mg 1-3 x a day
calcium 1200 mg/day
vitamin d 800 iu/day
fishoil (although recently I have ran out) 1-3g 1-3x a day
alcar (although recently I have ran out) 625mg 1-3x a day

However, this is not a safe stack for one to consume. There is much interactions going on here.

1. I could achieve serotonin syndrome hence, daily monitoring is in place esp for any elevation in temperature, restlessness, or nausea.
2, I could get a hypertensive crisis so I check my blood pressure weekly to make sure it stays in the ideal range.
3. Tachycardia is a concern so I make sure my heart rate doesn't change.
4. Elevated liver enzymes therefore, I get blood-work often right now is monthly I believe.
5. hypothyroid or hyperthyroidism so when I get my blood work I get my thyroid levels.

As I am sure the dxm will get the most attention it is not for cognitive enhancement but rather my depression. However, this is experimental and should not be replicated. However, I use it in the hopes it will act as a 1. a sigma agonist causing an antidepressant response and 2. Mainly, a noncompetive antagonist for nmda via conversion to dextrophan (DXO) which should lead to a modulation of the ampa receptors and therefore, increase BDNF levels and elicit an antidepressant response. Further mirroring ketamine my lithium carbonate should act as a nitrousoxide inhibitor and aniracetam as acting on the nicotinic receptor. With both aniracetam and sunifiram adding to the ampa receptor modulation and the noopept adding to the bdnf boost. Theoretically, possibly causing an antidepressant response in my niave opinion.

[Dr Dastan]

Thank you very much to all the people that have responded to my post here. I am really sorry for replying so late. Actually i went into another of my usual depressive episodes, and the inertia of depression and procaristination forbade me from replying.

The only nootropic that I've tried which seemed to interact with my SSRI was Bacopa. The combo caused nonstop yawning and sleepiness.

Your list looks fine (including rhodiola). I'd be wary of the Huperzine though. Strong, long acting stuff.

Thank you very much for your suggestion regarding Huperzine, it may be too strong for me as i am prone to anxiety.
Regarding Bacopa, i want to try it as its efficacy is proven by research and is available to me ( I have access to a limited number of Nootropics ), but I have read a few comments somewhere that It caused testicular atrophy in some rats. Now i am very much concerned about my reproductive health which i believe is already affected by long term use of antidepressants.
What is the verdict about Bacopa ? Does it really affect ones reproductive health

Can anyone comment on this,

Edited by Dr Dastan, 06 March 2014 - 06:50 AM.

[mrd1]

The research on Bacopa and male reproductive health that people draw these concerns over probably was from "Evaluation of antifertility potential of Brahmi in male mouse." However, I am not dettered from using bacopa because it seemed to have normalized completely by day 56 (Signh A & Signh SK, 2009). Further more, during the entire 56 days neither testosterone nor libido was negatively effected. (Signh A & Signh SK, 2009) Therefore, I do not believe there is sufficient evidence to deter bacopa use on fears of negative effects on male fertility.

[Dr Dastan]

Thank you very much MRD1 for your detailed reply.
I fear that i may obsess over this thing if I take Bacopa.

[John250]

Do any nootropics or supps have a bad interaction with only 10mg Lexapro daily? I would think only something that greatly increases serotonin but then again a Z pack can cause a bad reaction with Lexapro which makes no sense why.

[John250]

The research on Bacopa and male reproductive health that people draw these concerns over probably was from "Evaluation of antifertility potential of Brahmi in male mouse." However, I am not dettered from using bacopa because it seemed to have normalized completely by day 56 (Signh A & Signh SK, 2009). Further more, during the entire 56 days neither testosterone nor libido was negatively effected. (Signh A & Signh SK, 2009) Therefore, I do not believe there is sufficient evidence to deter bacopa use on fears of negative effects on male fertility.

Plus the mouse was given 250mg/kg which would be like human consuming 17,000-25,000mg bacopa vs the average 320-640mg/ recommended.