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EVP-6124 group buy

working memory executive function schizophrenia alzheimer

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#91 megatron

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 03:47 PM

Update

Great news everyone! I just received an email from my contact at the lab, where he stated that the synthesis of the drug will finish tomorrow, Wednesday. They will test the purity on Thursday, so it will either be shipped on Friday or just over the weekend. He said that there was another (commercial) client interested in this compound as well, and therefore the chemists worked overtime. Could this commercial client be newstarnootropics?
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#92 Metagene

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 04:26 PM

Hot damn! I was expecting 2-3 more weeks.

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#93 socialpiranha

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:20 AM

stoked to hear the results, i doubt newstar would be interested though, they don't offer anything currently in development i don't think. Unless they we're planning to brand it as something else.

#94 Dazzcat

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 03:01 AM

Originally I had to pull out of this groupbuy due to unforeseen circumstances, however Megatrone just recently gave me a second opportunity, so thanks dude, looking forward to sharing my experience.

If this works out, I would certainly like to help with a 2nd group buy if there are further interested parties.

Edited by Dazzcat, 12 March 2014 - 03:03 AM.


#95 formergenius

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:05 PM

Hot damn! I was expecting 2-3 more weeks.

Same here; more even.
That's some good news :) Looking forward to trying it.

Thanks Megatrone!

#96 di36

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:19 PM

good news mate! ;)

#97 megatron

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 01:26 PM

Unfortunately (or fortunately), the lab was not willing to ship to the Netherlands, because the country apparently from last year has some new import law against nootropics (at least piracetam). They were not willing to take the risk of it being seized by customs. Therefore I have to find a new distributor for Europe.

Would it be too risky having a nootropics company like Nootropic.eu distribute it, if they're willing to do it?

Edited by Megatrone, 13 March 2014 - 01:54 PM.


#98 di36

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:22 PM

if they are paid their share,i don't see where the risk is.

#99 formergenius

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 06:54 PM

Unfortunately (or fortunately), the lab was not willing to ship to the Netherlands, because the country apparently from last year has some new import law against nootropics (at least piracetam). They were not willing to take the risk of it being seized by customs. Therefore I have to find a new distributor for Europe.

Would it be too risky having a nootropics company like Nootropic.eu distribute it, if they're willing to do it?


Did they by any chance provide you with references to these laws? If they did, please send them to me, for I could attempt to dispute the claims. I think they're just rumours, because last time I checked it was legal to import substances for private use (including medication), unless explicitly illegal (a la SilkRoad).
Furthermore; regardless of whether or not these claims are true; I have never had any problems whatsoever importing substances of various natures; including research chemicals (one of them quite recently). IMO, the chance of it being confiscated is minimal. Though true; a larger (boxed) package may have higher risk associated with it than an envelope.

#100 megatron

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 01:47 PM

Unfortunately (or fortunately), the lab was not willing to ship to the Netherlands, because the country apparently from last year has some new import law against nootropics (at least piracetam). They were not willing to take the risk of it being seized by customs. Therefore I have to find a new distributor for Europe.

Would it be too risky having a nootropics company like Nootropic.eu distribute it, if they're willing to do it?


Did they by any chance provide you with references to these laws? If they did, please send them to me, for I could attempt to dispute the claims. I think they're just rumours, because last time I checked it was legal to import substances for private use (including medication), unless explicitly illegal (a la SilkRoad).
Furthermore; regardless of whether or not these claims are true; I have never had any problems whatsoever importing substances of various natures; including research chemicals (one of them quite recently). IMO, the chance of it being confiscated is minimal. Though true; a larger (boxed) package may have higher risk associated with it than an envelope.


That's what Raza told me as well, and I told, but they wouldn't take the chance.

#101 Muad'Dib

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:46 PM

A update would be nice

#102 megatron

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:58 PM

I have spoken with vlk, and a couple of others, but it is very hard finding someone trustworthy (preferably living in the UK) willing to do this. vlk might do it, but he is not very often on the forum, so conversation is going slow. I sent an email to Nootropic.eu earlier today and is still waiting for a reply, if they're willing to do it..

Edited by Megatrone, 18 March 2014 - 12:59 PM.


#103 VERITAS INCORRUPTUS

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 08:05 PM

That reason very much seems corrupt. It is not as I am aware known in any common regard as being a nootropic. As such, it would be extremely unlikely to appear on any banned list of substances (nootropics included) with a potential to be seized. I see a problem likely here; fair warning (sorry) :|?
Hopefully this plays out well. :mellow:

I checked on this thread to see if there were any bioassays. Sorry to see this complication for all who had an interest.
Was this a Europe only group buy?

#104 megatron

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 07:25 PM

Update

As you all know, I have been searching for someone to replace Raza as reshipper. I have finally found someone, Bonee. Thank you very much! The remaining payment was also just sent to the lab. They will ship the drug as soon as they get the payment, as the synthesis was finished a week ago and the analysis results have also come back. Below, I have added the PDFs for the HNMR, Chiral HPLC and HPLC results. One step closer ;)

HNMR: https://drive.google...dit?usp=sharing
Chiral HPLC: https://drive.google...dit?usp=sharing
HPLC: https://drive.google...dit?usp=sharing

Edited by Megatrone, 20 March 2014 - 07:25 PM.

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#105 formergenius

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:34 PM

No idea how to read those results, but still great news :) Thanks for keeping us updated Megatrone!

Edited by formergenius, 20 March 2014 - 08:34 PM.


#106 Dazzcat

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:59 PM

I have no idea how to read those results either, where is an organic chemist when we need one. :) Thanks Megatrone for the smooth progress.

#107 VERITAS INCORRUPTUS

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:04 PM

I feel this is a strong pathways to explore, however, allow me to inform a word of caution to those embarking on engaging this pathway. Overstimulation (chronic agonism) of this pathway can lead to glutamate toxicity and a degradation of cognitive function. The amyloid-beta peptide associated with Alzheimer's disease acts as an agonist upon this receptor which within chronic overstimulation results in uncontrolled release of glutamate; this causes consequential excitotoxicity/neurotoxicity.

#108 formergenius

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:53 PM

I feel this is a strong pathways to explore, however, allow me to inform a word of caution to those embarking on engaging this pathway. Overstimulation (chronic agonism) of this pathway can lead to glutamate toxicity and a degradation of cognitive function. The amyloid-beta peptide associated with Alzheimer's disease acts as an agonist upon this receptor which within chronic overstimulation results in uncontrolled release of glutamate; this causes consequential excitotoxicity/neurotoxicity.


Indeed; I too have recently read about this. But it should be interesting to see whether it has beneficial effects, and from there on out perhaps PAMs would be a more sustainable approach.

#109 Dazzcat

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 02:00 AM

I feel this is a strong pathways to explore, however, allow me to inform a word of caution to those embarking on engaging this pathway. Overstimulation (chronic agonism) of this pathway can lead to glutamate toxicity and a degradation of cognitive function. The amyloid-beta peptide associated with Alzheimer's disease acts as an agonist upon this receptor which within chronic overstimulation results in uncontrolled release of glutamate; this causes consequential excitotoxicity/neurotoxicity.


Have you got some links to the research you were reading?

At therapeutic dosages of 1-2mg for evp-6124, I can't see how this could be any worse than nicotine which is a full agonist, rather than partial (as with evp-6124) on alpha7 nicotinic receptors., which raises a question, is there any evidence that nicotine causes glutamate toxicity?

Edited by Dazzcat, 22 March 2014 - 02:06 AM.


#110 VERITAS INCORRUPTUS

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 01:18 PM

I feel this is a strong pathways to explore, however, allow me to inform a word of caution to those embarking on engaging this pathway. Overstimulation (chronic agonism) of this pathway can lead to glutamate toxicity and a degradation of cognitive function. The amyloid-beta peptide associated with Alzheimer's disease acts as an agonist upon this receptor which within chronic overstimulation results in uncontrolled release of glutamate; this causes consequential excitotoxicity/neurotoxicity.


Have you got some links to the research you were reading?

At therapeutic dosages of 1-2mg for evp-6124, I can't see how this could be any worse than nicotine which is a full agonist, rather than partial (as with evp-6124) on alpha7 nicotinic receptors., which raises a question, is there any evidence that nicotine causes glutamate toxicity?


I do not recall where I read that, however, it did stay in my head as it raised a red flag in that I do believe this is a strong pathways for beneficial effects; so all information regarding such that I have come across has made some impact. Indeed, after evaluating further several research studies, I believe the paper I read that may have made an error in considering this overstimulation as a form of agonism.

To the contrary, this 'overstimulation' of engagement by the amyloid-beta peptide I believe corrupts the receptor itself and is function in as a functional potentially as a 'irreversible suicide' antagonist (as I term 'receptor corruptors'). I need to evaluate further, but this is my current determination and I will attempt to relocate the original article. This would explain the severe deterioration of cognitive function seen in such degenerative diseases.

I do recall vividly that this alpha7 overstimulation theory was made, but I do of course wish to read the full text further.

Interesting articles as relates to nicotine and glutamate:

http://drugprevent.o...ate-signalling/

http://thebipolardan...polar-patients/

As well from wiki:
α7 receptors are homomeric neuronal acetylcholine receptors consisting of five α7 subunits and has five ACh binding sites. Abnormality in the α7 receptors expression have been reported to influence progression of diseases such as Alzheimer's disease and schizophrenia. The α7 are not believed to have as much affinity for nicotine as the heteromeric receptor but instead they have shown more affinity for alpha bungarotoxin which is a nicotinic antagonist found in venom of some snakes. Targeting of α7 receptors is therefore thought to be useful in treatment of Alzheimer's disease and schizophrenia.[8][14]

Hopefully not derailing the the thread too much within responding to Dazzcats inquiries... ;) Worthwhle information consider and to evaluate further methinks :)

Edited by VERITAS INCORRUPTUS, 22 March 2014 - 01:22 PM.


#111 VERITAS INCORRUPTUS

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 05:15 PM

A noteworthy study as pertains to the above:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23042213
Modulation of α7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptor and fibrillar amyloid-β interactions in Alzheimer's disease brain.

EVP-6124 being a partial agonist should indeed it would appear be a superior therapy for such conditions and may yield enhanced cognitive functions in those not prior impaired

Varenicline is a full agonist; I wonder if there is any negative consequence to this degree of modulation/stimulation. I do not know the selectivity offhand as relates to its primary therapeutic pathway of partial agonist activity at alpha2/beta4 relative to the full agonist activity at alpha7.

Edited by VERITAS INCORRUPTUS, 22 March 2014 - 05:37 PM.


#112 VERITAS INCORRUPTUS

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 06:17 PM

As well, is it possible EVP-6124 is best characterized as an allosteric [partial] agonist and not simply a partial agonist as i believe it is currently characterized?

Edited by VERITAS INCORRUPTUS, 22 March 2014 - 06:40 PM.


#113 Dazzcat

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 08:39 PM

Interesting studies, these two studies were the first two I pulled up when searching nicotine and glutamate toxicity.

http://www.jneurosci.../10093.full.pdf
http://jpet.aspetjou.../2/772.full.pdf

Both show that nicotine is neuroprotective via agonising the alpha7 nAChR's which reduces the calcium influx associated with glutamate toxicity.
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#114 VERITAS INCORRUPTUS

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 05:21 PM

Interesting studies, these two studies were the first two I pulled up when searching nicotine and glutamate toxicity.

http://www.jneurosci.../10093.full.pdf
http://jpet.aspetjou.../2/772.full.pdf

Both show that nicotine is neuroprotective via agonising the alpha7 nAChR's which reduces the calcium influx associated with glutamate toxicity.


Nicotine is certainly not the scourge it is demonized as within the context of smoking itself is the real addiction. The total action of smoking, the manner and contexts in which it is generally engaged, and in that it has such potent relaxant and anti-depressant effects makes it so prone to abuse and so difficult to quit. The toxins within smoking are not of course the nicotine itself. Nicotine is actually a superior therapeutic for neurodegenerative diseases.

With smoking, prior to chronic use it is stimulating due to the initial glutamate enhancement, which quickly develops a tolerance due to downregulation. This severe downregulation then requires the smoker to become highly addicted as they need to right their now highly dysregulated Achnicotinergic/glutaminergic dynamics, as well as resulting dopaminergic dysregulation.

Inhalation itself likely causes such rapid and profound tolerance and downregulation (desensitization) of course; this is otherwise than if supplemented orally, as a therapeutic. The proper level for a therapeutic benefit is likely one that would also maintain a modest degree of the stimulant effect.

The 'abuse' upon these receptors caused by smoking so chrnically may even corrupt the receptor due to such overstimulation, as perhaps is the case with overstimulation by beta-amyloid. Delicate balances can of course not tolerate such 'abuse' without severe negative impact.

Smoking is obviously highly addictive and cessation is incredibly difficult. I have not really seen this the case with those who engaged nicotine orally. I have seen this be the case with oral users, even ones that use it fairly frequently. It is the while of smoking that is trends to abuse and addiction, as well as all related health consequences, likely primarily due to other toxins, though perhaps as well to the severity of nicotine overstimulation itself as well.

To come a bit full circle here, when respected, one might have the most effective and readily available neuroprectant/neuroenhancer within nicotine itself; administration via pure oral route may be superior for the desired effects (above buccal such as with gums and lozenges as that may be too rapid as well, though acceptable over inhalation of course). No abuse of these forms is seen at all commonly.

Partial agonists specific for alpha7 should be a highly desirable pathway, but may or may not be superior for intended goals as that in which may even simply be derived by nicotine used in a therapeutic manner.

Smoking = BAD!!!
Nicotine = GREAT?!!? (used orally and responsibly)
;)

#115 YOLF

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 06:14 PM

I'll wait until my life insurance company feels the same about it...

Edited by cryonicsculture, 30 March 2014 - 05:09 PM.


#116 YoungSchizo

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 06:54 PM

I concur nicotine itself might not be harmful on itself, I'm schizo, was a heavy cigs smoker, on one hand it was good for only 15/30 min. concentration on the other hand it affected my symptoms like DP/DR and mentally it slowed me down.. After comparing it with vaping, cigs are the axis of evil!! After switching to vaping Nicotine (since Jan 8th) liquids I have some nootropics effects, well, I can't really say nootropic but some symptoms really improved (I'm more of the old me and feeling fresh and young!), mental clarity, I'm way more talkative, my brainspeed to take up information and process it improved, short term memory works better, anxiety improved, depression improved, verbal memory improved (maybe other cognitive things but can't really tell because I'm also taking Clonazepam), it works anti-stress and off course not only mentally, all the physical downsides of smoking are gone! I craved cigs after normal daily events, eating, gaming, reading, stressful events, (almost the whole day) with vaping the whole craving to a drug like a junkie is gone and I don't even find it necessary to increase my intake of vaping over the past several months!

I'm not in this group because I will probably in a EVP-6124 clinical trial somewhere next month, don't know the exact date, but soon! I have high hopes that EVP might be the key drug, not only to improve cognition but also my negatives and positive symptoms! (I'm looking at this drug this way, if nicotine improved my symptoms so much, EVP will probably sky-rocket and change my mental health drastically so I can be a smart-ass again which I once was :cool: )

btw. I'm not on any antipsychotic, without Clonazepam I would probably fall into the category treatment resistant.

Edited by YoungSchizo, 23 March 2014 - 07:09 PM.


#117 VERITAS INCORRUPTUS

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 08:05 PM

^ a nicotine patch may be most superior therapeutically as to what is readily available for nicotine administration; and may even be superior to EVP overall. as prior intimated (though I do like that the selective alpha7 partial agonists/agonists are being explored).

Please inform if you are accepted in the trial; if you are not accepted I will be shortly involved within conducting trials on an agent (not alpha7 specific) that I believe may be optimum for those with such psychoneurobiological dysregulation

you can thank BIG CIG (and BIG PHARMA) for the disgusting nature of what has transpired with the scourge that is smoking...

#118 YoungSchizo

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 09:55 PM

I never tried patches, gums etc. I wasn't even planning on quitting with cigs (self-medicate), I just like to smoke, these vapors are a godsend for me :)

I have been told by the EVP study conductors that the mechanism of action of EVP and nicotine is far more different, therefore, in the inclusion criteria for this study there is no exclusion if you smoke/take nicotine. And I guess it's true and make sense, if I recall correctly I read somewhere that EVP reaches Acetylcholine receptors deep inside the brain where nicotine has no effects on and/or they would not have allowed this like they did in previous EVP trials where nicotine was an exclusion criteria. (Also, in previous EVP study's a group of schizophrenics showed reductions in negative and positive symptoms, nicotine itself has no effect on these symptoms)

I'm gonna a make a log if I'm accepted to the study, study is 26 weeks, after that another option for a 6 months trial.

Edited by YoungSchizo, 23 March 2014 - 10:02 PM.


#119 VERITAS INCORRUPTUS

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:09 PM

What is the study you are looking to participate within specifically assessing?

This study here is looking directly at smokers:
Dr. A. Eden Evins:

Proof-of-Concept Trial of an Alpha-7 Nicotinic Agonist for Nicotine Dependence (Evins PI) NIDA R01DA030992 (04/01/2011-01/31/2016)
When people quit smoking, a major symptom of nicotine withdrawal is cognitive impairment. This type of impairment can make individuals more likely to start smoking again in order to get rid of that side effect. The Alpha 7 acetylcholine receptor agonist, EVP 6124, has been shown to improve mental performance, such as ability to pay attention and focus for extended periods of time. This study aims to determine whether by improving cognitive performance with EVP 6124, individuals who are trying to quit smoking are more likely to sustain abstinence. This study is currently enrolling 450 healthy male and female smokers aged 18-65 who have smoked an average of at least 15 cigarettes per day during the past year.


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#120 YoungSchizo

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:22 PM

hmm.. I'm not at home and I can't find the study and/or I found it but they changed the inclusion/exclusion drastically.. weird.. I look it op later when I'm at home.

This is one
There was another with fewer criteria's, I'll post it later (if it still exist :wacko: )

Edited by YoungSchizo, 23 March 2014 - 10:30 PM.






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