6 replies to this topic

[LexLux]

Im really new to nootropics and would like to learn how they work and whether my current stack could cause long term health issues. I have starting taking the following:

• noopept (30mg daily)
• ashwagandha (800mg daily stanardized fot 1.5% withanolides)
• rhodiola rosea (1000mg daily standardized at 3% rosavins)
• occasionally bacopa monnieri (250mg daily standardized at 45% baccosides)
• maybe twice a week picamillon 300mg daily
• maybe once a week sunifiram 10mg daily
• looking to order deprenyl

Also where is a good place to learn more about their mechanisms of action?

[mrd1]

Both rhodiola rosea and especially deprenpyl may act as a MAO A/B inhibitor. Given this, caution must be exercised as this could potently cause serious interactions (possibly even life threatening) with many medications.

I believe bacopa has to be taken chronically over a period of 8-12 weeks to exert its effects on cognition.

I also believe that the effects of noopept are bimodal and therefore has 2 peaks where first peak falls between normally 5-15 mg depending on weight.

wwww.examine.com
pubmed
and google scholar are good places to gather your info IMHO.

Lastly, many of the long term health issues are unknown or might not even exist at all we simply do not know. A lot of these nootropics are new.

[LexLux]

Both rhodiola rosea and especially deprenpyl may act as a MAO A/B inhibitor. Given this, caution must be exercised as this could potently cause serious interactions (possibly even life threatening) with many medications.

I believe bacopa has to be taken chronically over a period of 8-12 weeks to exert its effects on cognition.

I also believe that the effects of noopept are bimodal and therefore has 2 peaks where first peak falls between normally 5-15 mg depending on weight.

wwww.examine.com
pubmed
and google scholar are good places to gather your info IMHO.

Lastly, many of the long term health issues are unknown or might not even exist at all we simply do not know. A lot of these nootropics are new.

Thanks, Examine.com is a nice starting point, individual areas of interested can be futher researched as a follow up.

I guess it would be good to avoid taking both rhodiola and deprenyl together if I do try deprenyl. Not taking any prescriptions and am a vegan so alot of the diet concerns can be avoided if I avoid beer, yeast and fermented foods. I would try a low dose of deprenyl anyways.

SInce piracetam has been around for a while, would you think it would be wiser to use pramracetam rather than noopept, since the former is related more closely to piracetam?

[mrd1]

To qualify as a -racetam it only has to have a 2 pyrrolidone nucleus. So, the only reason noopept isn't closely related to piracetam is because it lacks this 2 pyrrolidone nucleus. However, I personally, am not convinced that the presence, or conversely, lack thereof, a 2 pyrrolidone nucleus is enough to decide if something is a good idea or not because, even slight alterations in a chemicals structure can drastically alter its pharmacology.

Pramiracetam is complex and I believe it seems to work atleast partly in ways differant than how both piracetam and noopept mediate their effects. These subtle differences may make it a good idea or a bad idea I simply do not know. So, I would advise you only to consume chemicals you feel like you understand exactly how it works and the risks that are involved.

Piracetam has actual widespread clinical use in many countries and for a very long term at sometimes extremely high doses (e.x. 10-30 or even 60 GRAMS per DAY) for a large list of illnesses. While, I do consume both noopept and piracetam (as well as aniracetam, coluracetam, and sunifiram) ONLY piracetam has widespread medical use** *(many others have been invested experimentally) * (only referring to -racetam, sunifiram, and noopept here. Plently of other nootropics are commonly used in medicine). Therefore, the others are experimental at this point in time. I believe many of these experimental compounds have theoretical effects much stronger than piracetam and warrant my personal use. However, the amount of caution and the extent of research you do for these should be extensive. These are NOT supplements. These are POWERFUL experimental chemicals that require extensive research, care, safety, respect, and further research to top off your already extensive research.

While what I did is obviously impracticable and probably much more than what would be needed, I have probably studied my extensive, and by many what would be considered excess amounts of, experimental chemicals for well over ten thousand hours by researching neuroscience easily an average 7-16 hours / day on >90% of days for years. The wisest thing is to research as much as possible so you know whatever chemical you take as intimately as possible.

Edited by mrd1, 21 February 2014 - 04:35 AM.

[LexLux]

To qualify as a -racetam it only has to have a 2 pyrrolidone nucleus. So, the only reason noopept isn't closely related to piracetam is because it lacks this 2 pyrrolidone nucleus. However, I personally, am not convinced that the presence, or conversely, lack thereof, a 2 pyrrolidone nucleus is enough to decide if something is a good idea or not because, even slight alterations in a chemicals structure can drastically alter its pharmacology.

Pramiracetam is complex and I believe it seems to work atleast partly in ways differant than how both piracetam and noopept mediate their effects. These subtle differences may make it a good idea or a bad idea I simply do not know. So, I would advise you only to consume chemicals you feel like you understand exactly how it works and the risks that are involved.

Piracetam has actual widespread clinical use in many countries and for a very long term at sometimes extremely high doses (e.x. 10-30 or even 60 GRAMS per DAY) for a large list of illnesses. While, I do consume both noopept and piracetam (as well as aniracetam, coluracetam, and sunifiram) ONLY piracetam has widespread medical use** *(many others have been invested experimentally) * (only referring to -racetam, sunifiram, and noopept here. Plently of other nootropics are commonly used in medicine). Therefore, the others are experimental at this point in time. I believe many of these experimental compounds have theoretical effects much stronger than piracetam and warrant my personal use. However, the amount of caution and the extent of research you do for these should be extensive. These are NOT supplements. These are POWERFUL experimental chemicals that require extensive research, care, safety, respect, and further research to top off your already extensive research.

While what I did is obviously impracticable and probably much more than what would be needed, I have probably studied my extensive, and by many what would be considered excess amounts of, experimental chemicals for well over ten thousand hours by researching neuroscience easily an average 7-16 hours / day on >90% of days for years. The wisest thing is to research as much as possible so you know whatever chemical you take as intimately as possible.

Thanks for another great response, considering all the research you have done its great to see you active on the forums! I've been reading up on these racetams and other substances on examine.com since it does help with evaluating the studies done so far and gives a good overview. I am doing a coursera class on clinical trials but I find that it is hard to find full studies that are translated on these compounds for evaluation. So examine.com has helped with that.

While using noopet I noticed: better memory, and quicker thought processing. This wasn't something I noticed right after taking it, more like a pattern I observe when I look back on what has and hasnt happened over the past month. I am also taking other nootropics (as mentioned above), so I cant objectively say for certain that it is the noopet alone doing this. Subjectively I do feel that it is responsible, I believe that people expect a reaction similar to a stimulant, but I've never 'felt' the effects in the way as with caffeine. To me its more about what I don't feel, specifically I feel very little mental clouding when I take noopept.

I am thinking of giving aniracetam from mindnutrition a try when my noopept runs out. Have you tried it? Do you have a preferred supplier?

Edited by LexLux, 21 February 2014 - 06:04 AM.

[mrd1]

I take aniracetam 1-3x day at 1000-1250 mg/dose which adjusted for my weight is 10-12.5 mg/kg which corresponds well to the rat studies measuring its antidepressant effects at 50-100 mg/kg. The reason the dosage is different is because according to the HED equation I took from the fda a conversion of x mg/kg in rats equals roughly x/10 for humans. *the equations kinda long so I just use rat dose orally/10 or ( rat dose I.V. * bio-availability orally )/10 and some really odd combitions ive done changing it to [( rat dose I.V. * bio-availability orally )/10]*x1...or3 with x1 being 1.5-2, x2 being 2-3x, and x3 being 5X+...+oo depending on the particar degree of enzyme inhibition. However, these are crude models and only give me crude estimates far too vague to use to dose things.

I do not know who mindnutrition is but I buy all my nootropics from nootropicdepot and newstarnootropics. I have no affiliations with either of these and honestly haven't a clue if they are superior or inferior to mind nutrition.

I like aniracetam it has some interesting activity probably via its prodrug metabolites on the 5-ht dopamine and nicotinic systems and is a primarily mglu3 modulator vs piracetam which modulates both mglu2 and mglu3. However, I take aniracetam, coluracetam, sunifiram, and noopept everyday so I really don't have a clear favorite.

[Duchykins]

I take aniracetam 1-3x day at 1000-1250 mg/dose which adjusted for my weight is 10-12.5 mg/kg which corresponds well to the rat studies measuring its antidepressant effects at 50-100 mg/kg. The reason the dosage is different is because according to the HED equation I took from the fda a conversion of x mg/kg in rats equals roughly x/10 for humans. *the equations kinda long so I just use rat dose orally/10 or ( rat dose I.V. * bio-availability orally )/10 and some really odd combitions ive done changing it to [( rat dose I.V. * bio-availability orally )/10]*x1...or3 with x1 being 1.5-2, x2 being 2-3x, and x3 being 5X+...+oo depending on the particar degree of enzyme inhibition. However, these are crude models and only give me crude estimates far too vague to use to dose things.

I do not know who mindnutrition is but I buy all my nootropics from nootropicdepot and newstarnootropics. I have no affiliations with either of these and honestly haven't a clue if they are superior or inferior to mind nutrition.

I like aniracetam it has some interesting activity probably via its prodrug metabolites on the 5-ht dopamine and nicotinic systems and is a primarily mglu3 modulator vs piracetam which modulates both mglu2 and mglu3. However, I take aniracetam, coluracetam, sunifiram, and noopept everyday so I really don't have a clear favorite.

I just ordered a bit of coluracetam today because I've read a few things about it having beneficial effects in persons with apathy or poor sociability, but I'm having trouble finding well detailed anecdotes on this racetam. Can you tell me your experience with colur?