13 replies to this topic

[agwoodliffe]

This is in response to the topic mentioned several days earlier, which found that social interaction is dependent upon some complex response of the nucleus accumbens in social situations.
However, elevating dopamine alone does not appear to be the answer: it seems to also be rooted in raising GABA.

I've done a fair bit of research around this topic, and my findings are that substances which positively affect the benzodiazepine receptors of the GABA complex, appears to be quite unique in causing behavioural disinhibition. Interestingly, Ginkgo Biloba which was found to inhibit some of the GABA-A receptors, was found to decrease social contact when administered alone.

So, if you're a ''person of few words'', and haven't responded greatly to SSRI's or dopaminergic substances (Rhodiola, Chaenomeles), then it may be worth looking at substances which positively affect GABA signalling.
BUT, that does not mean going straight for classic benzo drugs, as their effects quickly disappear and tolerance builds. My first guesses would be instead to try the amino acid ''GABA'', or ''Picamilon'' which may have a better chance of reaching the brain.

This might all be a load of rubbish, but I am no expert. This is simply a theory.

Edited by agwoodliffe, 21 February 2014 - 12:48 PM.

[Dolph]

GABA has exactly ZERO chance to reach the brain as long as you don't inject it directly into the cortex. And I wholeheartedly advise you not to try doing that at home...

[Dolph]

lol
Yeah, vote me down if you never realized there is something called blood-brain barrier... Orally ingested GABA doesn't do anything. That's a fact I'm not responsible for.

[Sciencyst]

That's not 100% true... Drugs with poor BBB permeability still cross it, just maybe only a 'few' molecules. So it does not have ZERO chance, it just has an extremely negligible chance. Some people also have compromised BBBs, or maybe are taking drugs that increase BBB permeability, so some GABA does cross it to a greater extent. Again, just not enough to do a whole lot. However, GABA does still affect brain areas that do not have a BBB and its effects as such can be felt. Furthermore, if one takes it sublingually with a GABA agonist such as alprazolam, it noticeably increases effects... http://www.erowid.or...xp.php?ID=23114

[Dolph]

You say you can differentiate between the effect(?) of GABA and the effct of alprazolam if taken at the same time???

I mean come on. I can take broccoli together with alprazolam and I WILL feel something. But I couldn't ever tell how much of that was caused by the broccoli...

Edited by Dolph, 21 February 2014 - 08:51 PM.

[Sciencyst]

I am not saying that, no. Anecdotally, GABA synergizes with alprazolam though.

If you want to find out GABAs effects for yourself, take like 3g sublingually and you will understand.

[Duchykins]

I concur that dopamine is not the sole answer here. At least, this is true in my case as my dopamine levels are high enough that they can be tipped over into causing agitation, anger and aggressive impulses by bupropion. My husband takes gabapentin (a GABA analog) for nerve pain and the handful of times I tried half of one of his pills to go to sleep, anxiety and irratibility melted away amazingly along and I was more sociable and the effects carried over well into the following day. They also put a significant dent in migraines (but never aborted one, unfortunately), making them much more tolerable and restoring some functionality.

The only weird thing was that it always takes a few hours for the gabapentin to 'kick in'. Since then, I have been reading extensively about GABA and I'm really saddened by the lack of available (acceptable) OTC drugs.

Phenibut and picamilon I'm sure would help in the short term but do harm in the long term. GABA doses do work but only a small portion of doses make it to the brain. Effects have been observed in autistic children that cannot be explained by placebo since they are not aware of being dosed. However I'm not sure it wouldn't downregulate GABA like all the others.

At the moment I'm trying precursors of GABA and other things to help boost my own GABA production, this is just the beginning so I can't comment to efficacy just yet.

Something interesting that I just realized about 5 minutes ago: I recently significantly reduced my daily lysine dose and this coincided with increase in episodes of apathy, social withdrawal, irritability, and nonmigraine headaches. I went from about 1g of lysine a day to about 200-300mg. The original purpose of the lysine was migraine prophylaxis - and it works for that in my migraine stack. I'll go back to my old 1g, but I don't think lysine is the lone answer because I was still socially withdrawn, closed-mouthed and apathetic at inappropriate times - just less than usual.

[protoject]

I am not saying that, no. Anecdotally, GABA synergizes with alprazolam though.

If you want to find out GABAs effects for yourself, take like 3g sublingually and you will understand.

I think I felt something but it didn't feel 'gabaergic', sadly. I think I used to do 5 g sublingually, for like 20 mins and then swallow it.

[Sciencyst]

Right you are.

GABA as a supplement feels NOTHING like benzodiazepines. Not at all. It makes you sleepy and itchy. But yes it doesnt feel GABAergic in the sense of benzos.

It does help slightly with anxiety but its best for sleep and supposed HGH (according to bodybuilding forums). Its not worthless as a supplement but its uses are limited.

And it tastes like shit

[Galaxyshock]

Gotu Kola would be good here, it increases the conversion of glutamate to GABA, and is a selective GABA-B agonist but doesn't cause withdrawals. It's also a CCK-B antagonist, cholecystokinin (CCK) is known to induce panic, and antagonism has similar anti-depressant-like effect as opioid agonism. Gotu Kola also affects monoamines and cAMP, increases blood flow, neuroregeneration. Simply wonderful herb.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 28 February 2014 - 01:31 PM.

[agwoodliffe]

Ah wait. I forgot to add something in my original post. Although Ginkgo seemed to reduce social contact alone, it actually POTENTIATED the pro-social effect of GABA. Fascinating.

[Sciencyst]

Awesome. You have sold me on gotu kola.

Gotu Kola would be good here, it increases the conversion of glutamate to GABA, and is a selective GABA-B agonist but doesn't cause withdrawals. It's also a CCK-B antagonist, cholecystokinin (CCK) is known to induce panic, and antagonism has similar anti-depressant-like effect as opioid agonism. Gotu Kola also affects monoamines and cAMP, increases blood flow, neuroregeneration. Simply wonderful herb.

Edited by katuskoti, 02 March 2014 - 01:28 AM.

[doublenickels]

Gotu Kola would be good here, it increases the conversion of glutamate to GABA, and is a selective GABA-B agonist but doesn't cause withdrawals. It's also a CCK-B antagonist, cholecystokinin (CCK) is known to induce panic, and antagonism has similar anti-depressant-like effect as opioid agonism. Gotu Kola also affects monoamines and cAMP, increases blood flow, neuroregeneration. Simply wonderful herb.

How much, and when to take?

Any preferred suppliers?

Thanks!

[machete234]

If I take bacopa for maybe 1 or two weeks I definitely give less of a shit or in other words I'm flowing more in conversations like I am a bit less self aware.
For the more acute social things I take ashwagandha which is also an Indan herb that works like valerian only stronger and faster.