15 replies to this topic

[castillo]

Hi I am new here and would love some advice. I have spent two years getting off Celexa have been almost 4 months now. Along the way I got addicted to Ativan/klonopin after two months use, and subsequently discontinued with a week taper. Now i'm left with depression, heart palpitations, buzzing ears, insomnia, floaters, ocd, restless limbs, phobias. I was so ready to celebrate getting off Celexa and now I have this new hurdle to get over. I also have Lyme disease on top of all that.

Will sam-e or bacopa help? I know I'm low in both serotonin and dopamine due to a neurotransmitter test done years ago. Now i'm sure my Gaba levels are all screwy due to the benzo usage.

Will sam-e be too stimulating? I am just afraid to put myself through any withdrawal again. Throughout my benzo withdrawal I was take Rhodiola, relora, ashwagandha, holy basil, and magnesium. Inositol helped with sleep but made me depressed and I thought it was suppose to help with depression??? Any experiences with SAm-e or Bacopa? CAn i take SAm-e, Rhodiola and Bacopa together???

Edited by castillo, 05 April 2014 - 05:00 AM.

[castillo]

I was just looking through some blood work from last year..I realized my vitamin B12 was WAY higher than the range for the blood test. Range is somewhere between 0-400 and my B12 was at 700. I've started taking a tiny bit of B12 with the Sam-e.. Now i'm worried it will do more harm than good. Should I supplement with B6 instead or a low whole foods B vitamin.

[castillo]

ok it is official. Sam-e is making some symptoms worse. My tinnitus is louder and I get weird cortisol surges at weird times although I am less depressed. Will this go away? Will taking niacin undo these effects?

[Kompota]

How would you describe cortisol surges ? At 28 months off Clonazepam, I still suffer from elevated cortisol with poor cognitive abilities (learning, memory, concentration) and nighttime awakenings (not a big issue though) as a result.

[castillo]

I would describe the surges as sudden heart palpitations and with negative thoughts that run a million miles an hour. I think I start sweating too. How long were you on for?

Man the worst feeling of benzo withdrawals is feeling awkward in society. Although my symptoms are dumbed down, it just feels like I am very withdrawn and don't belong among people in the world. It's almost like I was everyone pass me by.

Sorry I meant "almost like I watch everyone pass me by."

[ILIkeBeer]

Can I ask how often what dose and how long you took klonopin? 

[castillo]

I was taking 0.5-1 mg for about 2 months or more.

[neuralis]

I had great success coming off clonazepam using bacopa.

 

I used it anywhere from 2-6 mgs a day for 4 months. Then when I decided to start coming off it I stabilized on 1 mg and kept on it for a month. About 2 weeks being on 1 mg I started taking around 2 grams of bacopa daily. After 2 weeks I had a relapse and took up to 6 mgs a day again. This went on for a week. During all this time I kept on taking Bacopa. 

 

When I decided to resume my original plan to get off benzos I didn't immideately start taking the 1 mg I took before. I reasoned that I had taken quite a lot during the week I was able to go a day or two without taking any. I had a pill in my pocket ready to be taken at the first sight of acute WD the symptoms. But they never came. There was NO ACUTE WD symptoms at all! By taking 2 grams of bacopa for couple of weeks before quitting I completely elimininated the need for taper. I was planning for a 1 month long taper at best, but it was not necessary! Stabilizing on 1mg was way worse than going cold turkey with bacopa.

 

That's to say there we're no acute symptoms, but unfortunately I can't say the same for protracted symtptoms. It's been 2 months I still struggle with them daily. I think the only thing that helps for protracted WD is time and maybe flumazenil. 

 

 

NB! Don't forget this is all anecdotal, please don't go and try quitting benzos cold turkey just because it worked for me.

Edited by neuralis, 14 May 2014 - 12:03 PM.

[castillo]

Didn't that amount of bacopa make you dead tired???  It makes it hard to wake up in the mornings.  its odd how it worked for the acute withdrawal and not the minor ones that last after.  Is there a scientific reason for this?  Is it possible bacopa can be stimulating?

Edited by castillo, 14 May 2014 - 01:15 PM.

[neuralis]

I actually almost didn't feel anything from the bacopa itself, it just made me a little withdrawn from my surroundings.

 

To my knowledge acute WD-s are caused by the downregulating effects of benzodiazepines on the GABA system. Meaning that using benzos for extended periods of time degreases both your endogenous GABA and the receptor sites it can bind to. GABA being the main inhibitory neurotransmitter protects your brain from going into overdrive. Acute WD-s = too many neurons firing at the same time. That's why there's a chance of seizures during withdrawing from benzos because there's too many neurons firing at the same time for the mind to process. Now Bacopa has been demonstrated to upregulate the GABA system. Meaning it increases both the endogenous gaba and the receptor sites it can bind to. Basically it stops your brain from going into overdrive.

 

Now I believe the protracted WD-s are coming from the coupling of GABA receptor into inverse agonist formation. It takes lots of time for this change to reverse. That's why protracted WD symptoms can last up to two years in some cases. If my own situation doesn't improve in the fallowing months I'm going to travel to Perth to get Flumazenil therapy which is supposed to reset the receptor into it's normal state.

 

Edited by neuralis, 14 May 2014 - 08:04 PM.

[castillo]

Wow I never knew it was so complicated!!  Considering I only used for 2-3 months at 0.5-1mg, can i have protracted withdrawals?  I took a little kava two nights ago and it was bad news..i was wired.  Now I'm just sticking with rhodiola and relora and want to add back bacopa as I stopped to try the other two.

[neuralis]

It's impossible to tell as everyone is different. How long have you been off benzos?

[castillo]

I was just going to edit...I've been off for 2 1/2 months and I still feel like something is tightening around my brain, a humming in my left ear, feeling like my vision is cross eyed with floaters, heaviness in legs, tight skin, fear and an overall feeling like im in a fishbowl(I guess this is called derealization?)

Edited by castillo, 14 May 2014 - 09:49 PM.

[Duchykins]

I had a lot of the same problems when my ambien prescription was interrupted by an asshole pharmacy for about 4 days. Ear ringing, lower back and leg aches, abdominal cramps, gas pain, very high anxiety, RLS type stuff. First off, with any benzo or narcotic withdrawal, maintaining your electrolytes is of utmost importance. This means primarily calcium, magnesium, potassium. Sodium and chloride are important too but you're likely getting plenty of those in your food. Go get some magnesium, calcium, I prefer citrates, potassium too though I used cream of tartar because it was cheaper and I didn't have to take a ton of potassium pills a day (since potassium in supplements is regulated to be no more than 99mg per dose, the RDA is closer to 3.5 grams). Potassium supplementation is not something you want to overdo but it will help.

Don't underestimate the power of hot baths/showers.

For the acute withdrawals I ultimately had to use about 30mg of picamilon before my legs settled and my aches stayed away long enough for me get some sleep. This was on top of the usual theanine, lysine and taurine

[castillo]

Has it improved for you with picamilon?  I thought it was a no no being a gaba agonist?  That is one i have not yet tried.

[Duchykins]

Picamilon helped just fine. Low dose, one dose for bedtime, no more and none during the day. Discipline. I've never used picamilon more than two days in a row, with less than 5 days between using. The goal is not to get rid of all symptoms but to just make them more tolerable. My main issue at the time was settling heart palpitations and my back pain so I could stop being paranoid about my heart and kidneys and just go the fuck to sleep. A bath helped a lot and I went to sleep for about an hour but woke up because I had cooled off, that's when I decided on using some picamilon with a touch more magnesium, calcium and cream of tartar, and about an hour later I had gone back to sleep and stayed asleep till morning.

Since stuff like picamilon and phenibut have benzo-like effects, using them for benzo withdrawal may be questionable, but using them for withdrawal from other classes of drugs is a different matter. I didn't have anything else around at the time except some valerian and bacopa and the pharmacy fucked up my refill at the last minute, leaving me in the lurch, so for me it was not a matter of getting off ambien for good. I of course have a physical dependence from taking one every night for 7-8 months, but not an addiction, and I got back my ambien after a handful of days and a new pharmacy (what fun that was).

The way I handled it is not the ideal for withdrawal treatment cause it wasn't planned and it wasn't tapered.