144 replies to this topic

[Ritchie]

The psychosis attributed to cocaine is stimulant psychosis. I don't think it's purely something caused by cocaine and low doses shouldn't cause it. Ecgonine on the other turns the spigot on energy generation to full on. It's just more of the regular energy generation that we experience and why coca leaf is reported as being a "cleaner" experience than other stimulants including caffeine, amphetamine, and coke/crack. You'd have to show that extreme low dose cocaine from coca leaf would otherwise lead to psychosis and I just don't see a reason given current data to accept that. All I'm seeing is a desire to stick to status quo nutrition, and that's still killing us

Cocaine is very chemically similar to Ritalin, which has been shown to cause stimulant psychosis after months of daily administration in similar concentrations(of cocaine) found in coca leaves(5-10mg). Like I said though, I have no problem mildly counteracting Reserpine, but I feel as if it is acting as a safe guard from stimulant psychosis.

 

Also, I did not fully understand your last post can you simplify the following statements:
"Ecgonine on the other turns the spigot on energy generation to full on"

"All I'm seeing is a desire to stick to status quo nutrition, and that's still killing us"

 

Edited by Ritchie, 25 April 2014 - 03:05 AM.

[Flex]

 

 

 

Cryonicsculture, read my above post. Reserpine is Speculated to be an alkaloid of coca, this has not been confirmed.

I'm going to have to agree with normalizing on this one, I also believe that in order for something to be good, it has to be bad too. I believe that, in nature, everything comes in a sort of "package". In the sense that harmful compounds are packaged along beneficial compounds.

 

One example of this is Sugar Cane. White Sugar is known for its ability to cause tooth decay, diabetes and cardiovascular disease. However modern reasearch has revealed that sugar cane, while containing large amounts of white sugar, has been shown to strenghen the teeth, stabilize blood sugar and lower cholesterol. Why does this happen? Because other chemicals in sugar cane(specifically vitamins and antioxidants as well as phytonutrients) mitigates and even overcomes the negative aspects of sugar.

 

This is of course not the case with all plants. Some plants are just flat out poisonous. However Coca does not seem to be one of those plants. Coca obviously works by some unknown mechanism that humans don't understand. Reserpine may very well be complementing other compounds in coca, which all work together to mitigate Cocaine's effect. By removing Reserpine you're screwing with this very delicate and perfect system. Which means that Reserpine-free coca extract could very well be just as addictive and have the same side effects as low doses of orally administered Cocaine Hydrochloride. Not to mention the fact that modern alkaloid extraction techniques will most likely remove alot of beneficial compounds from coca(antioxidants, vitamins etc) along with Reserpine.

 

Please don't try to mess around with the mechanisms present in this plant. Coca contains COCAINE for gods sake! The very limited research proves that coca is harmless in its NATURAL form.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for longevity. I want to live 1000 years too! But this idea can only lead to more harm than good. You say Reserpine causes oxidative stress? I'll supplement with more antioxidants. You say Reserpine builds up? I'll drink less coca tea every week. But I sure as hell am not going to try to screw with the unknown mechanism present in coca to possibly get some tiny marginal benefit that probably won't outweight the negatives.

 

 

This is really interresting,

There is apart from anatabine in Tobacco, the same thing in Cannabis.

Because of its CBD content, which antagonizes the canabinoid system uniquely and in a different manner

than a "plumb" Cb1+Cb2 antagonist.

So, The antidote for Cannabis is.. Cannabis

 

Therefore I wonder if the whole coca plant extract could be kind of benefical in fighting addiction and Brain alterations caused by Coke.

Although its safer to not generalize this though, cuz even natural tobacco, still makes You addicted.

[YOLF]

While reserpine may help coke users quit, it's not doing anything for people who aren't addicted to coke but potentially causing harm and there are other safer antipsychotic meds out there that could be used by clinicians for addiction psychosis. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's the best route to go or the safest. These are marketing ploys that could be hurting people.

 

Pot really is bad for you... what other time would you take something that lowers your immune system other than in desperation or seeking to get wasted? You can fill your brain with polluted info on pot because it's good for patients with specific conditions, but if your honest with yourself... You'll want designer drugs that are made to be good for you, not just drugs that make wishful thinking easier.

[Kyle McGill]

Nope, no bias there whatsoever..

[Ritchie]

 

 
 

Cryonicsculture, read my above post. Reserpine is Speculated to be an alkaloid of coca, this has not been confirmed.
I'm going to have to agree with normalizing on this one, I also believe that in order for something to be good, it has to be bad too. I believe that, in nature, everything comes in a sort of "package". In the sense that harmful compounds are packaged along beneficial compounds.
 
One example of this is Sugar Cane. White Sugar is known for its ability to cause tooth decay, diabetes and cardiovascular disease. However modern reasearch has revealed that sugar cane, while containing large amounts of white sugar, has been shown to strenghen the teeth, stabilize blood sugar and lower cholesterol. Why does this happen? Because other chemicals in sugar cane(specifically vitamins and antioxidants as well as phytonutrients) mitigates and even overcomes the negative aspects of sugar.
 
This is of course not the case with all plants. Some plants are just flat out poisonous. However Coca does not seem to be one of those plants. Coca obviously works by some unknown mechanism that humans don't understand. Reserpine may very well be complementing other compounds in coca, which all work together to mitigate Cocaine's effect. By removing Reserpine you're screwing with this very delicate and perfect system. Which means that Reserpine-free coca extract could very well be just as addictive and have the same side effects as low doses of orally administered Cocaine Hydrochloride. Not to mention the fact that modern alkaloid extraction techniques will most likely remove alot of beneficial compounds from coca(antioxidants, vitamins etc) along with Reserpine.
 
Please don't try to mess around with the mechanisms present in this plant. Coca contains COCAINE for gods sake! The very limited research proves that coca is harmless in its NATURAL form.
 
Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for longevity. I want to live 1000 years too! But this idea can only lead to more harm than good. You say Reserpine causes oxidative stress? I'll supplement with more antioxidants. You say Reserpine builds up? I'll drink less coca tea every week. But I sure as hell am not going to try to screw with the unknown mechanism present in coca to possibly get some tiny marginal benefit that probably won't outweight the negatives.
 

 
This is really interresting,
There is apart from anatabine in Tobacco, the same thing in Cannabis.
Because of its CBD content, which antagonizes the canabinoid system uniquely and in a different manner
than a "plumb" Cb1+Cb2 antagonist.
So, The antidote for Cannabis is.. Cannabis
 
Therefore I wonder if the whole coca plant extract could be kind of benefical in fighting addiction and Brain alterations caused by Coke.
Although its safer to not generalize this though, cuz even natural tobacco, still makes You addicted.

There were actually some clinics that offered coca leafs as a treatment for cocaine and crack addictions. I believe they had modest success with it but I'm not entirely sure. Wikipedia states a link for such a study but I cannot find that study.

[Ritchie]

While reserpine may help coke users quit, it's not doing anything for people who aren't addicted to coke but potentially causing harm and there are other safer antipsychotic meds out there that could be used by clinicians for addiction psychosis. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's the best route to go or the safest. These are marketing ploys that could be hurting people.
 
Pot really is bad for you... what other time would you take something that lowers your immune system other than in desperation or seeking to get wasted? You can fill your brain with polluted info on pot because it's good for patients with specific conditions, but if your honest with yourself... You'll want designer drugs that are made to be good for you, not just drugs that make wishful thinking easier.

You're missing the point. Coca functions by a mechanism that is not yet understood. You say Reserpine is harmful, but so is Cocaine. Yet coca does not display any of the harmful effects that cocaine does because the other alkaloids mitigate its effects.

Most of the alkaloids in coca have had no research done on them. How do you know if the other alkaloids are not mitigating Reserpine's effects? How do you know if the other alkaloids are more harmful than reserpine and reserpine is not mitigating their effects?

You don't.

If you had research to back up your claims, this would be a different story.
However simply stating that Coca contains Reserpine and therefore must be harmful without having any proof of this, is as ignorant as saying that sugarcane must cause diabetes and tooth decay because it contains white sugar.

Edited by Ritchie, 25 April 2014 - 04:53 PM.

[normalizing]

Food also wasn't designed for us. We just happened to survive it for however many years we've been evolving and in some cases adapted to it. If we modify it with the goal of making it more healthy, that's what it will probably be.

 

GMO supporter?

While reserpine may help coke users quit, it's not doing anything for people who aren't addicted to coke but potentially causing harm and there are other safer antipsychotic meds out there that could be used by clinicians for addiction psychosis. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's the best route to go or the safest. These are marketing ploys that could be hurting people.

 

Pot really is bad for you... what other time would you take something that lowers your immune system other than in desperation or seeking to get wasted? You can fill your brain with polluted info on pot because it's good for patients with specific conditions, but if your honest with yourself... You'll want designer drugs that are made to be good for you, not just drugs that make wishful thinking easier.

 

what safer antipsychotics are there? designer drugs? apart from suggesting a safer antipsychotic against anything "natural", now you suggest a designer drug as safer versus marijuana?

 

GMO supporter, designer drug supporter, fake made up by man food filled with vitamins and other particles as one chooses, you strike me as a young arrogant man. especially since you use "we" when you express your opinion. im not sure if you work for a corporation...

Edited by normalizing, 25 April 2014 - 06:05 PM.

[YOLF]

 

While reserpine may help coke users quit, it's not doing anything for people who aren't addicted to coke but potentially causing harm and there are other safer antipsychotic meds out there that could be used by clinicians for addiction psychosis. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's the best route to go or the safest. These are marketing ploys that could be hurting people.
 
Pot really is bad for you... what other time would you take something that lowers your immune system other than in desperation or seeking to get wasted? You can fill your brain with polluted info on pot because it's good for patients with specific conditions, but if your honest with yourself... You'll want designer drugs that are made to be good for you, not just drugs that make wishful thinking easier.

You're missing the point. Coca functions by a mechanism that is not yet understood. You say Reserpine is harmful, but so is Cocaine. Yet coca does not display any of the harmful effects that cocaine does because the other alkaloids mitigate its effects.

Most of the alkaloids in coca have had no research done on them. How do you know if the other alkaloids are not mitigating Reserpine's effects? How do you know if the other alkaloids are more harmful than reserpine and reserpine is not mitigating their effects?

You don't.

If you had research to back up your claims, this would be a different story.
However simply stating that Coca contains Reserpine and therefore must be harmful without having any proof of this, is as ignorant as saying that sugarcane must cause diabetes and tooth decay because it contains white sugar.

 

Yet I've said the same to you... the minuscule amounts of cocaine have a short half life and don't persist for very long and aren't known to cause problems at low levels. Meanwhile reserpine is a red flag with a long half life that will accumulate with use. A few hours after ingesting a few mg of cocaine it's gone... a week later your reserpine levels are higher than ever. I'm considering reserpine a serious danger to our health... lines of cocaine are bad... not some left over residue... The cocaine molecule may not even survive the time it takes to ship the stuff in from peru or wherever. It's nothing to worry about. You can pick the leaves a few extra days in advance if you don't want the cocaine in your bloodstream. Worrying about the cocaine in coca tea is just ridiculous.

 

There are studies to back up what I'm saying. It's proven by the simple fact that with regular use, the reserpine will eventually reach "clinical mass." Given reserpine's chemical characteristics, it's the chemical I would be worried about and I first look at the substance. The next step in the research would be to consider reserpine related experiments. Your analogies are unfounded, lay off the drugs, smarter people than you or I will advise lawmakers and industry groups will fear that the fallout from bringing up this subject will affect their sales or complicate their business. Don't help push something through and try to bend public opinion, it's not the right way to do things. Instead, conduct experiments to determine how the safety of the substance can be improved.

Edited by cryonicsculture, 25 April 2014 - 10:08 PM.

[YOLF]

Updated above post.

[YOLF]

 

Food also wasn't designed for us. We just happened to survive it for however many years we've been evolving and in some cases adapted to it. If we modify it with the goal of making it more healthy, that's what it will probably be.

 

GMO supporter?

While reserpine may help coke users quit, it's not doing anything for people who aren't addicted to coke but potentially causing harm and there are other safer antipsychotic meds out there that could be used by clinicians for addiction psychosis. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's the best route to go or the safest. These are marketing ploys that could be hurting people.

 

Pot really is bad for you... what other time would you take something that lowers your immune system other than in desperation or seeking to get wasted? You can fill your brain with polluted info on pot because it's good for patients with specific conditions, but if your honest with yourself... You'll want designer drugs that are made to be good for you, not just drugs that make wishful thinking easier.

 

what safer antipsychotics are there? designer drugs? apart from suggesting a safer antipsychotic against anything "natural", now you suggest a designer drug as safer versus marijuana?

 

GMO supporter, designer drug supporter, fake made up by man food filled with vitamins and other particles as one chooses, you strike me as a young arrogant man. especially since you use "we" when you express your opinion. im not sure if you work for a corporation...

 

GMO supporter?  LIMITED, but YES!

 

I support the improvement of food nutrition. It's perfectly fine in my opinion to add things to food that will make it healthier and perfectly reasonable to remove unhealthy substances from foods which may cause harm and evaluate the results. However, I disagree with enriching foods with things like folic acid in the place of genuine natural folate or adding genes to plants for human consumption that will allow it to metabolize glycophosphate (sp?) without determining what now exists within that catabolism and what those thing do to the food. I advocate for lifespan and metabolism studies on gmo foods. Sure feed more people but do it safely and as efficiently as possible.

 

MJ may not kill you, but it will make you easily suggestible among other things and is not conducive to cognitive enhancement. Where MJ is found to be effective at cognitive enhancement there are underlying issues that would be better treated with alternative drugs. For example, pot lowers inhibitions and can reduce anxiety. It does this by affecting various brain chemistries that can be permanently corrected with the right regimens. But I guess that wouldn't be as fun would it. Those drugs won't get you high enough and may cause you to see things in your life for the train wreck they really are. But what drug do your want? The red pill or the blue pill (matrix movie analogy reference)? If you're a pot smoker I encourage you to educate yourself on the pharmacology of pot and determine by your reaction to it what changes you need to make or what natural neuro or body chemistry you can solve your problem with without getting high all the time.

 

I'm presently unemployed and prefer to say "we" as I'm not the only one who wants optimally healthy food. 

Edited by cryonicsculture, 25 April 2014 - 10:30 PM.

[Ritchie]

 

 

While reserpine may help coke users quit, it's not doing anything for people who aren't addicted to coke but potentially causing harm and there are other safer antipsychotic meds out there that could be used by clinicians for addiction psychosis. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's the best route to go or the safest. These are marketing ploys that could be hurting people.
 
Pot really is bad for you... what other time would you take something that lowers your immune system other than in desperation or seeking to get wasted? You can fill your brain with polluted info on pot because it's good for patients with specific conditions, but if your honest with yourself... You'll want designer drugs that are made to be good for you, not just drugs that make wishful thinking easier.

You're missing the point. Coca functions by a mechanism that is not yet understood. You say Reserpine is harmful, but so is Cocaine. Yet coca does not display any of the harmful effects that cocaine does because the other alkaloids mitigate its effects.

Most of the alkaloids in coca have had no research done on them. How do you know if the other alkaloids are not mitigating Reserpine's effects? How do you know if the other alkaloids are more harmful than reserpine and reserpine is not mitigating their effects?

You don't.

If you had research to back up your claims, this would be a different story.
However simply stating that Coca contains Reserpine and therefore must be harmful without having any proof of this, is as ignorant as saying that sugarcane must cause diabetes and tooth decay because it contains white sugar.

 

Yet I've said the same to you... the minuscule amounts of cocaine have a short half life and don't persist for very long and aren't known to cause problems at low levels. Meanwhile reserpine is a red flag with a long half life that will accumulate with use. A few hours after ingesting a few mg of cocaine it's gone... a week later your reserpine levels are higher than ever. I'm considering reserpine a serious danger to our health... lines of cocaine are bad... not some left over residue... The cocaine molecule may not even survive the time it takes to ship the stuff in from peru or wherever. It's nothing to worry about. You can pick the leaves a few extra days in advance if you don't want the cocaine in your bloodstream. Worrying about the cocaine in coca tea is just ridiculous.

 

There are studies to back up what I'm saying. It's proven by the simple fact that with regular use, the reserpine will eventually reach "clinical mass." Given reserpine's chemical characteristics, it's the chemical I would be worried about and I first look at the substance. The next step in the research would be to consider reserpine related experiments. Your analogies are unfounded, lay off the drugs, smarter people than you or I will advise lawmakers and industry groups will fear that the fallout from bringing up this subject will affect their sales or complicate their business. Don't help push something through and try to bend public opinion, it's not the right way to do things. Instead, conduct experiments to determine how the safety of the substance can be improved.

 

My point was not that Cocaine in coca leafs was harmful. My point is that your ignoring the entire plant and only focusing on 1 of the 1000s of compounds present in Coca. Not only this, but almost all the compounds that are unique to Coca do not have any studies done on them.

Other compounds could very well be counteracting Reserpines effects, and Reserpine may be very important to coca's mechanism of Action.

My claims may be unfounded, but so are your claims.

 

You read a couple of research articles on pure Reserpine, then make a simple hypothesis without even considering the other substances in the plant. And now you want to right away do something drastic without even doing basic experiments on Coca first.

If you can find that Coca, NOT pure Reserpine, has demonstrated the ability to increase blood concentrations of Reserpine, then there would be a very little amount of evidence to back up what your saying. Even in that situation, further experiments would have to be conducted to confirm that no other substance in Coca mitigates Reserpine's effect. STILL, if they find that coca does contain Reserpine AND it is not being mitigated by anything. Then studies would have to be conducted on coca's effects with and without Reserpine to see whether it is safe without Reserpine, or if it produces terrifying psychological side effects without Reserpine. THEN and only THEN, would it be worth it to remove Reserpine from Coca completely. This is all assuming that Coca even contains Reserpine, as the only scientific extraction of coca's alkaloids that was documented, did not state that they found any Reserpine in Coca leafs.

 

Very mature of you by the way, to assume that just because I consume a psychoactive substance, I am suddenly less intelligent than you. If you truly believe that all psychoactive substances make people less inteligent, then you really should not be studying nootropics.
 

Edited by Ritchie, 26 April 2014 - 12:27 AM.

[YOLF]

I'm testing a hypothesis based on known information... If I remove the reserpine and I don't go psychotic, or even if I do go psychotic and replace the reserpine with a safer antipsychotic in the pursuit of improving the safety of the plant, what's wrong with that? There is a great deal of variation in the alkaloids of different coca leaf strains. removing one or two of them shouldn't do too much and I've already explained why it's a problem and the fact that you can have clinical levels of reserpine in your blood days after stopping long term makes the clinical study information relevant at some point in the metabolism of coca leaf. Can you explain to me how the differential between the biological half lives of reserpine and the other alkaloids/compounds aren't relevant to concluding that reserpine levels will accumulate? 

 

I didn't say all drugs, I said pot... and maybe cigarettes.

[Ritchie]

I'm testing a hypothesis based on known information... If I remove the reserpine and I don't go psychotic, or even if I do go psychotic and replace the reserpine with a safer antipsychotic in the pursuit of improving the safety of the plant, what's wrong with that? There is a great deal of variation in the alkaloids of different coca leaf strains. removing one or two of them shouldn't do too much and I've already explained why it's a problem and the fact that you can have clinical levels of reserpine in your blood days after stopping long term makes the clinical study information relevant at some point in the metabolism of coca leaf. Can you explain to me how the differential between the biological half lives of reserpine and the other alkaloids/compounds aren't relevant to concluding that reserpine levels will accumulate? 

 

I didn't say all drugs, I said pot... and maybe cigarettes.

I have never done pot or nicotine. I've only ever done caffeine, Ritalin and now Coca. I currently only use Coca because both caffeine and Ritalin incude anxiety and panic attacks in me. The crash from Ritalin makes me very suicidal.

 

My idea is that the coca leaf may contain other alkaloids that counters the effects of Reserpine, thus leading it to not be a threat.

I'm glad that you're going to start studying this wonderful plant.

My advice is to start by actually confirming that Coca even does contain Reserpine, before devising a way to extract it.

Edited by Ritchie, 26 April 2014 - 01:03 AM.

[Max Headroom Incident]

Coca is awesome!  I obtained some whole dried leaves from an unnamed online source and was very pleased.  They tend to increase sound sensitivity for me though, which is one thing I don't like about caffeine. 

 

Coca is an excellent source of nutrients, including many trace minerals not found in the typical American diet.  It's been used for centuries (millennia?) without causing any major health problems, unlike its cardiotoxic component cocaine.  It may not improve neuroplasticity or do some of the things other nootropics do, but the positives outweigh the negatives IMHO.  Mild stimulation, nutrient-rich, yummy

[normalizing]

 

 

Food also wasn't designed for us. We just happened to survive it for however many years we've been evolving and in some cases adapted to it. If we modify it with the goal of making it more healthy, that's what it will probably be.

 

GMO supporter?

While reserpine may help coke users quit, it's not doing anything for people who aren't addicted to coke but potentially causing harm and there are other safer antipsychotic meds out there that could be used by clinicians for addiction psychosis. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's the best route to go or the safest. These are marketing ploys that could be hurting people.

 

Pot really is bad for you... what other time would you take something that lowers your immune system other than in desperation or seeking to get wasted? You can fill your brain with polluted info on pot because it's good for patients with specific conditions, but if your honest with yourself... You'll want designer drugs that are made to be good for you, not just drugs that make wishful thinking easier.

 

what safer antipsychotics are there? designer drugs? apart from suggesting a safer antipsychotic against anything "natural", now you suggest a designer drug as safer versus marijuana?

 

GMO supporter, designer drug supporter, fake made up by man food filled with vitamins and other particles as one chooses, you strike me as a young arrogant man. especially since you use "we" when you express your opinion. im not sure if you work for a corporation...

 

GMO supporter?  LIMITED, but YES!

 

I support the improvement of food nutrition. It's perfectly fine in my opinion to add things to food that will make it healthier and perfectly reasonable to remove unhealthy substances from foods which may cause harm and evaluate the results. However, I disagree with enriching foods with things like folic acid in the place of genuine natural folate or adding genes to plants for human consumption that will allow it to metabolize glycophosphate (sp?) without determining what now exists within that catabolism and what those thing do to the food. I advocate for lifespan and metabolism studies on gmo foods. Sure feed more people but do it safely and as efficiently as possible.

 

MJ may not kill you, but it will make you easily suggestible among other things and is not conducive to cognitive enhancement. Where MJ is found to be effective at cognitive enhancement there are underlying issues that would be better treated with alternative drugs. For example, pot lowers inhibitions and can reduce anxiety. It does this by affecting various brain chemistries that can be permanently corrected with the right regimens. But I guess that wouldn't be as fun would it. Those drugs won't get you high enough and may cause you to see things in your life for the train wreck they really are. But what drug do your want? The red pill or the blue pill (matrix movie analogy reference)? If you're a pot smoker I encourage you to educate yourself on the pharmacology of pot and determine by your reaction to it what changes you need to make or what natural neuro or body chemistry you can solve your problem with without getting high all the time.

 

I'm presently unemployed and prefer to say "we" as I'm not the only one who wants optimally healthy food. 

 

 

"Those drugs won't get you high enough and may cause you to see things in your life for the train wreck they really are"

"If you're a pot smoker I encourage you to educate yourself on the pharmacology of pot and determine by your reaction to it what changes you need to make or what natural neuro or body chemistry you can solve your problem with without getting high all the time."

 

wow what a way of expressing yourself you have there. right to the point of talking to me like im some vicious "pot" smoker.

im not a marijuana user. when i used marijuana which was almost decade ago, it helped with school tremendesly. it helped with concentration, focus, actual motivation believe it or not. otherwise i was probably going to be put on ADHD medication like most kids now days. anyway, i know it causes minor memory deficit and back in the days i had minor problems with short term memory after regular prolonged use ONLY, but a lot of what it has done for me was positive back then. again, comparison to toxicity versus beneficial effect without trying to extract the THC alone and dump the rest of the junk present in there as you might do based on your ideas of getting rid of whatever is considered "junk" in food or herbs and get the most out of singularity. now that i dont smoke marijuana anymore, i really dont care about any new research regarding that because im not a supporter and its just an experience of my teenhood, personal and not universal for which i suspect people are different and nobody will have the same effect.

but seriously, you are so absolute in your choice of what you see as good or bad. and the way you express yourself, not really comfortable in association. your "we" usage could be for whatever reason, i just had experience with a lot of people using it as a way to create the idea they are backed up by some kind of orgaization or corporation and its opinion expressed universally by this entity and choice to say what you think personally is diluded.

 

 

 

Food also wasn't designed for us. We just happened to survive it for however many years we've been evolving and in some cases adapted to it. If we modify it with the goal of making it more healthy, that's what it will probably be.

 

GMO supporter?

While reserpine may help coke users quit, it's not doing anything for people who aren't addicted to coke but potentially causing harm and there are other safer antipsychotic meds out there that could be used by clinicians for addiction psychosis. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's the best route to go or the safest. These are marketing ploys that could be hurting people.

 

Pot really is bad for you... what other time would you take something that lowers your immune system other than in desperation or seeking to get wasted? You can fill your brain with polluted info on pot because it's good for patients with specific conditions, but if your honest with yourself... You'll want designer drugs that are made to be good for you, not just drugs that make wishful thinking easier.

 

what safer antipsychotics are there? designer drugs? apart from suggesting a safer antipsychotic against anything "natural", now you suggest a designer drug as safer versus marijuana?

 

GMO supporter, designer drug supporter, fake made up by man food filled with vitamins and other particles as one chooses, you strike me as a young arrogant man. especially since you use "we" when you express your opinion. im not sure if you work for a corporation...

 

GMO supporter?  LIMITED, but YES!

 

I support the improvement of food nutrition. It's perfectly fine in my opinion to add things to food that will make it healthier and perfectly reasonable to remove unhealthy substances from foods which may cause harm and evaluate the results. However, I disagree with enriching foods with things like folic acid in the place of genuine natural folate or adding genes to plants for human consumption that will allow it to metabolize glycophosphate (sp?) without determining what now exists within that catabolism and what those thing do to the food. I advocate for lifespan and metabolism studies on gmo foods. Sure feed more people but do it safely and as efficiently as possible.

 

MJ may not kill you, but it will make you easily suggestible among other things and is not conducive to cognitive enhancement. Where MJ is found to be effective at cognitive enhancement there are underlying issues that would be better treated with alternative drugs. For example, pot lowers inhibitions and can reduce anxiety. It does this by affecting various brain chemistries that can be permanently corrected with the right regimens. But I guess that wouldn't be as fun would it. Those drugs won't get you high enough and may cause you to see things in your life for the train wreck they really are. But what drug do your want? The red pill or the blue pill (matrix movie analogy reference)? If you're a pot smoker I encourage you to educate yourself on the pharmacology of pot and determine by your reaction to it what changes you need to make or what natural neuro or body chemistry you can solve your problem with without getting high all the time.

 

I'm presently unemployed and prefer to say "we" as I'm not the only one who wants optimally healthy food. 

 

 

"Those drugs won't get you high enough and may cause you to see things in your life for the train wreck they really are"

"If you're a pot smoker I encourage you to educate yourself on the pharmacology of pot and determine by your reaction to it what changes you need to make or what natural neuro or body chemistry you can solve your problem with without getting high all the time."

 

wow what a way of expressing yourself you have there. right to the point of talking to me like im some vicious "pot" smoker.

im not a marijuana user. when i used marijuana which was almost decade ago, it helped with school tremendesly. it helped with concentration, focus, actual motivation believe it or not. otherwise i was probably going to be put on ADHD medication like most kids now days. anyway, i know it causes minor memory deficit and back in the days i had minor problems with short term memory after regular prolonged use ONLY, but a lot of what it has done for me was positive back then. again, comparison to toxicity versus beneficial effect without trying to extract the THC alone and dump the rest of the junk present in there as you might do based on your ideas of getting rid of whatever is considered "junk" in food or herbs and get the most out of singularity. now that i dont smoke marijuana anymore, i really dont care about any new research regarding that because im not a supporter and its just an experience of my teenhood, personal and not universal for which i suspect people are different and nobody will have the same effect.

but seriously, you are so absolute in your choice of what you see as good or bad. and the way you express yourself, not really comfortable in association. your "we" usage could be for whatever reason, i just had experience with a lot of people using it as a way to create the idea they are backed up by some kind of orgaization or corporation and its opinion expressed universally by this entity and choice to say what you think personally is diluded.

 

[normalizing]

Coca is awesome!  I obtained some whole dried leaves from an unnamed online source and was very pleased.  They tend to increase sound sensitivity for me though, which is one thing I don't like about caffeine. 

 

Coca is an excellent source of nutrients, including many trace minerals not found in the typical American diet.  It's been used for centuries (millennia?) without causing any major health problems, unlike its cardiotoxic component cocaine.  It may not improve neuroplasticity or do some of the things other nootropics do, but the positives outweigh the negatives IMHO.  Mild stimulation, nutrient-rich, yummy

 

yeah but i keep thinking coca is sprayed with all kinds of insecticides and also toxins by US government to prevent cocaine production, im not sure how its possible to get clean supply...

[Ritchie]

Coca is awesome!  I obtained some whole dried leaves from an unnamed online source and was very pleased.  They tend to increase sound sensitivity for me though, which is one thing I don't like about caffeine. 

 

Coca is an excellent source of nutrients, including many trace minerals not found in the typical American diet.  It's been used for centuries (millennia?) without causing any major health problems, unlike its cardiotoxic component cocaine.  It may not improve neuroplasticity or do some of the things other nootropics do, but the positives outweigh the negatives IMHO.  Mild stimulation, nutrient-rich, yummy

I'm glad you like it . Coca is currently the only stimulant I have tried that does not give me panic attacks. Infact I find coca calming and it has helped me in stressful situations. Coca has been used for over 5000 years in South America.

I hear what you're saying, Coca has been found to be highly nutritious, 100 grams of coca leaves contains enough nutrients and minerals to sustain an adult for 24 hours :D

 

 

[Ritchie]

 

Coca is awesome!  I obtained some whole dried leaves from an unnamed online source and was very pleased.  They tend to increase sound sensitivity for me though, which is one thing I don't like about caffeine. 

 

Coca is an excellent source of nutrients, including many trace minerals not found in the typical American diet.  It's been used for centuries (millennia?) without causing any major health problems, unlike its cardiotoxic component cocaine.  It may not improve neuroplasticity or do some of the things other nootropics do, but the positives outweigh the negatives IMHO.  Mild stimulation, nutrient-rich, yummy

 

yeah but i keep thinking coca is sprayed with all kinds of insecticides and also toxins by US government to prevent cocaine production, im not sure how its possible to get clean supply...

 

If your really concerned about pesticides, try rinsing the leaves with water. Honestly, the preservatives and GMO put in our food already is probably just as harmful.

 

[xks201]

Where do I get these coca leaves ?

[Ritchie]

Where do I get these coca leaves ?

I get them from http://novoandinastore.com/

but there are alot of other websites that sell them too.

 

[normalizing]

novoandina is too expensive! and they charge over the top on shipping and handling. i wish i find a new reliable site....

[Ritchie]

novoandina is too expensive! and they charge over the top on shipping and handling. i wish i find a new reliable site....

I you find one, tell me. But currently I trust Novoandina as it's the only website that sells coca leafs and does not sell Xanax.

[Flex]

I'm testing a hypothesis based on known information... If I remove the reserpine and I don't go psychotic, or even if I do go psychotic and replace the reserpine with a safer antipsychotic in the pursuit of improving the safety of the plant, what's wrong with that? There is a great deal of variation in the alkaloids of different coca leaf strains. removing one or two of them shouldn't do too much and I've already explained why it's a problem and the fact that you can have clinical levels of reserpine in your blood days after stopping long term makes the clinical study information relevant at some point in the metabolism of coca leaf. Can you explain to me how the differential between the biological half lives of reserpine and the other alkaloids/compounds aren't relevant to concluding that reserpine levels will accumulate? 

 

I didn't say all drugs, I said pot... and maybe cigarettes.

 

I guess there is no need to worry about the resperine content in coca leaves.

 

From another point of view. People have taken coca for centuries and doesnt get any symptoms which are related to a Reseperine poisoning.
At least in moderate doses

Edited by Flex, 26 April 2014 - 10:41 PM.

[Ritchie]

 

I'm testing a hypothesis based on known information... If I remove the reserpine and I don't go psychotic, or even if I do go psychotic and replace the reserpine with a safer antipsychotic in the pursuit of improving the safety of the plant, what's wrong with that? There is a great deal of variation in the alkaloids of different coca leaf strains. removing one or two of them shouldn't do too much and I've already explained why it's a problem and the fact that you can have clinical levels of reserpine in your blood days after stopping long term makes the clinical study information relevant at some point in the metabolism of coca leaf. Can you explain to me how the differential between the biological half lives of reserpine and the other alkaloids/compounds aren't relevant to concluding that reserpine levels will accumulate? 

 

I didn't say all drugs, I said pot... and maybe cigarettes.

 

I guess there is no need to worry about the resperine content in coca leaves.

 

From another view point seen. People have taken coca for centuries and doesnt get any symptoms which are related to a Reseperine poisoning.
At least in moderate doses

 

Yes. Apparently some south american farmers only live off Coca leaves and water as they do not have access to any other sort of food. Yet there is no mention in ancient writing or engravings of coca having any negative effects like there is with opium.

 

Also, I have binged(20-50 grams/day) on Coca during exam week before. And after exam week, when I took a break from Coca, I did not experience any symptom of Reserpine poisoning or side effects, not even stuffed nose.

 

 

 

[xks201]

Which product on that website is the real deal?

[Ritchie]

Which product on that website is the real deal?

I bought the 100 grams of bolivian whole leafs + 200 grams of Coca powder.

The leafs and powder were great, but I've probably experienced the strongest effects from the 50 grams package of coca leafs that they sell here: http://www.novoandin...whole-leaf-tea/

 

[YOLF]

 

I'm testing a hypothesis based on known information... If I remove the reserpine and I don't go psychotic, or even if I do go psychotic and replace the reserpine with a safer antipsychotic in the pursuit of improving the safety of the plant, what's wrong with that? There is a great deal of variation in the alkaloids of different coca leaf strains. removing one or two of them shouldn't do too much and I've already explained why it's a problem and the fact that you can have clinical levels of reserpine in your blood days after stopping long term makes the clinical study information relevant at some point in the metabolism of coca leaf. Can you explain to me how the differential between the biological half lives of reserpine and the other alkaloids/compounds aren't relevant to concluding that reserpine levels will accumulate? 

 

I didn't say all drugs, I said pot... and maybe cigarettes.

 

I guess there is no need to worry about the resperine content in coca leaves.

 

From another point of view. People have taken coca for centuries and doesnt get any symptoms which are related to a Reseperine poisoning.
At least in moderate doses

 

Resperine isn't a drug you want in your body at clinical levels. Clinical levels can accumulate from drink coca if you consider the difference in the half lives of the various compounds. No need to worry if you drink one glass of tea a week or less (maybe you can drink a little more depending on how much reserpine there is in it).

 

Having a long history doesn't mean that much. It means there are no easily noticeable negative side effects. There are potential side effects however as demonstrated by studies.

[YOLF]

As for my order from novoandina.com... Got it two days ago with the expedited shipping. I bought the supposedly concentrated coca powder. No stimulant properties yet... Havent noticed much in the way of appetite suppressant. I'll keep trying it for a few more days to see if anything changes, but according to the link below it's the strongest they have on their site...

 

https://www.facebook...6?stream_ref=10

 

So far it's only numbed my inner lip from masticating with baking soda... Will continue to report. I filled the space between my bottom lip and teeth all the way around.

[Ritchie]

As for my order from novoandina.com... Got it two days ago with the expedited shipping. I bought the supposedly concentrated coca powder. No stimulant properties yet... Havent noticed much in the way of appetite suppressant. I'll keep trying it for a few more days to see if anything changes, but according to the link below it's the strongest they have on their site...

 

https://www.facebook...6?stream_ref=10

 

So far it's only numbed my inner lip from masticating with baking soda... Will continue to report. I filled the space between my bottom lip and teeth all the way around.

I've find that the best effects come from actually chewing the leaves. Try making the powder in to tea. Use 1-2 teaspoons of powder and let steep for 15 minutes in semi-hot(not boiling) water.

 

[normalizing]

i havent cared to read about reserpine until this thread was mentioned but i didnt find any severe problems with it associated with perm problems and/or death. in fact i found this; Reserpine is one of the few antihypertensive medications that have been shown in randomized controlled trials to reduce mortality: The Hypertension Detection and Follow-up Program,^[14] the Veterans Administration Cooperative Study Group in Anti-hypertensive Agents,^[15] and the Systolic Hypertension in the Elderly Program.^[16]

 

thats three places stating it reduces mortality. kind of hard to understand whats so deadly about reserpine... OH and the fact that it is only shown to exist in one plant so far makes it even less of a problem....