31 replies to this topic

[nefarious one]

Topic says it all.  no troll, no BS, etc.

I used an rAAV embedded with cerebrolysin and administered it to myself intramuscularly for 42 days.  There were other compounds in their own rAAVs as well, hence the long duration.  (most notably for this crowd are Orexin-A and NR2B as some of the other compounds).

 

I didn't do any before / after n-back / etc type of testing, as there wasn't any interest in that.  I had never taken an IQ test before but scored 124 around seven weeks ago.  I don't consider myself brilliant whatsoever.

 

The therapy was done ~7 months ago for cerebro and orexin;  NR2B was ~5 months ago.

 

my background is going to be held privately for obvious reasons, but I will answer anything / everything that I possibly can.  The experience was nothing short of incredible and continues to be as such.

 

N1

[formergenius]

I'm confused; isn't NR2B a subtype of the NMDA receptor? How do you... administer a receptor?

Edited by formergenius, 02 May 2014 - 09:09 PM.

[Nattzor]

I'm confused; isn't NR2B a subtype of the NMDA receptor? How do you... administer a receptor?

 

It is.

 

I call troll.

 

He got access to rAAV by himself, combined it with cerebrolysin and other shit, injected it in himself, all at home?

[nefarious one]

Obviously I'm not giving away the source of the stuff.  I've known them and done business with them for years.  They are not stateside is all I will say.

 

You can get the NR2B peptide here http://www.biorbyt.c...eptide?___SID=U or if you're an institution you can order the gene itself from any major supplier.

 

I'm not here to explain the logistics of how I got it all, but anyone with enough will can research how to acquire everything I did.

 

yes, all was admin'd at home.  every night before bed, 31g insulin syringe. 

 

the entire process was roughly 9 months start to finish.  I "trialed" all of the products that were in each of their own respective rAAVs prior to making them permanent. 

also used Epitalon, which I forgot some of you guys have used on these forums.  I'll add it to the tags list for the thread.

 

each compound (again) was embedded into its own rAAV and shipped in individual vials.  Epitalon was sent in an AV (not AAV) and then we switched everything over to rAAV afterwards.  I went on a trip last July immediately after finishing the Epitalon and managed to get a lot of sun while on the trip.  It ended up being a 'farmer's tan', as in only on my arm from the sleeve down.  I still have the tan while the rest of my body is my natural skin color, despite multiple burn / peel cycles of my skin.  as in, I now have a tattooed tan. 

[Nattzor]

Why did you use NR2B peptide? Only research I've found on it was (experimental) neuropathic pain and some other shit.

 

Please explain what you mean with rAAV, becuase that's gene therapy. How would cerebrolysin, orexin-a, etc, be combined with that?

[nefarious one]

yes, all were gene therapy.

 

I had a list of compounds / effects that I wanted made permanent.  So, I trialed each compound (orexin, NR2B, cerebro, epitalon, and others) each individually to make sure I didn't have any bad side effects before embedding them permanently into my body.  hence why I said ~9 months start to finish, as this 'trialing' process took awhile.

 

then i placed the order for each adeno-associated virus with each compound.  so, one rAAV with cerebro, one with Orexin-A, etc etc.

 

they were produced by the supplier, sent to me, and administered. 

 

"NR2B overexpression effects" is a good starting point for your research on NR2B.  I do not have any of the headaches nor sickness from it.  The only sickness I had was from the administration of the rAAV each time.  Standard immune response.

 

to clarify, I did not use the NR2B peptide for the therapy itself - only for the trial period to ensure I had no ill effects from it.

[Nattzor]

But how would you add genes for cerebrolysin? Afaik they're not 100% sure what all the peptides in cere does.

[Nattzor]

The virus goes to a cell, finds the nucleus, sends RNA into it, then cross-over, then mutation/insertion/deletion/amplification/translocation/probably more I've forgotten. How is that wrong?

 

Please now explain how it can replicate cerebrolysin by doing that.

 

I'd also recommend you to start a thread on /r/nootropics and see what those guys will say.

 

And just producing more of shit doesn't mean it's good, I'd guess it would lead to some srs downregulation.

Edited by Nattzor, 03 May 2014 - 03:49 PM.

[nefarious one]

I'm not after internet fame.  I thought it'd be fun to make the thread and let discussions play.  I don't know what you mean by r/nootropics, another forum i'm assuming?

 

You have it right but it doesn't require an actual gene - like I said, you can do it with any compound that will fit into the carrier. 

[Nattzor]

I'm not after internet fame.  I thought it'd be fun to make the thread and let discussions play.  I don't know what you mean by r/nootropics, another forum i'm assuming?

 

You have it right but it doesn't require an actual gene - like I said, you can do it with any compound that will fit into the carrier. 

 

/r/nootropics is the subforum about nootropics on reddit. www.reddit.com/r/nootropics

 

But what good would it make to release some cerebrolysin in the nucleus if it can't be expressed as a gene? How does cerebrolysin on a virus work just floating around the body?

[nefarious one]

OIC.  The entire premise of gene therapy is permanence.  It isn't constantly pumping out the compound, but the effects of administering the compound are permanent.  As in, my focus / drive / vivid colors / etc are now permanent. 

I used to have a lot of internal 'noise' that would always go away when I actively took Cerebro. It would always return when I stopped taking it (prior to gene therapy).  It's gone now as well.  The anxiolytic properties remained.  The faster reaction times in real life situations remained.  I never had headaches on Cerebro and never did during the therapy either.  I've given the therapy (with cerebro only) to two other people.  One had headaches during therapy but never again, and the other didn't at all.

[Nattzor]

Can you explain through what MoA (Mechanism of Action) it gets permanent? Because if it doesn't change the genes I have no idea how it would happen.

[nefarious one]

I earnestly don't know how else to say it other than I have.  I think the 'gene' term might be throwing you off (not an attack / insult).  the process of 'gene therapy' is the same even if it isn't a gene - as in, the compound still becomes part of your genetic makeup even if you're not using an actual transgene (in the case of cerebro).

 

The cerebro was embedded into the rAAV just as a transgene would have been.  it replicates as if it were replicating a transgene and becomes part of the host (body).  etc etc.

[Jeoshua]

It's not how you're explaining it, it's the very theory behind gene therapy that this doesn't seem to agree with. In order to "become part of your genetic makeup", there must be genes, involved. You can't throw just any random chemical into your DNA and have it code for anything, only sequences of Adenosine, Cytidine, Guanine, and Thymine (or Uracil for RNA). Anything else being bound into your DNA/RNA would not code for anything, and would break the molecule. Unless you are using some kind of nanotech reverse complier to automatically find out the DNA sequence that codes to the peptides you are looking to create, this idea wouldn't work. Now, Cerebrolysin does contain a lot of peptides which can be directly coded for, but also some things that would require enzymes and cofactors to even create, and as such I just don't see how this works.

Plus, you're trying to say you, yourself, created this therapy. How about some specific terminology and not just generic information boiled down for laymen, eh? You have that, don't you?

[nefarious one]

I never claimed to have created it myself?  lol.  I got it from a supplier that I'm not going to disclose.  Please show me where I said I made it myself.  I am not smart enough to synthesize it all, let alone have access to anything like that.  It's laughable to suggest that I claimed to be the creator of gene therapy.

 

[Jeoshua]

Avoiding the actual point put to you? Having the first line of your thread deny being a troll? Claiming extremely unbelievable things that common knowledge would suggest isn't possible?

Please, cough up some more specific information or go away. Otherwise I'm convinced this is just a troll thread.

[nefarious one]

If you're saying I'm avoiding the point put to me that I claimed to create gene therapy, you need help bigger than anyone on this forum could provide for you, lol. 

 

Show me where I claimed to have created it.

[Jeoshua]

I've obviously dropped that point, which was made as an aside to a much more pressing point. One which you are avoiding.

Point made. Thread unfollowed. You obviously are not going to give any more information than "I know more than you guys".

This thread is just you bragging about something that a cursory glance shows doesn't make any sense. Gene therapy could be used as a method to ensure targeted delivery of a drug, but your claims of it becoming part of one's genetic code without similarly providing any codons to actually create any new genes is beyond complete bunk.

[nefarious one]

Thread unfollowed!  Oh the horror!  There are fewer things as final on this Earth as removing a subscription to a thread on Longecity!

 

I apologize if you aren't accepting the very simple things I have to say.  You're free to ask me anything you want, but when I say "I don't know" and you don't like it, you're just as free to take your bat and ball and run off as you've claimed to do above.  I never claimed to have invented the therapy, that was your own delusional train of thought that subsequently sent you over the edge.

 

and lol @ bragging / "i know more than you guys."  You forgot your lithium today, as all of my posts have pointed to exactly the opposite attitude that you're claiming I have.

 

Have a lovely day!

[Nattzor]

Explain how the "effects" last. If the effects of orexin-a would last, you'd downregulate the orexin receptors or have problems sleeping, etc.

 

"Gene therapy" makes no sense at all with this.

[nefarious one]

Orexin -

 

I haven't "tested" it outside of intentional sleep deprivation, which is what I wanted the compound for.  In the studies I researched, monkeys had full cognition after being sleep deprived by as many as 36 hours.  I've intentionally stayed up equally long 4x and felt "fine", fully functional, etc.  I can sleep minimally (as in <3hrs/night) for up to four days before it starts to take a cognitive toll on me.  I have learned to not stretch it this far because I would end up in such a sleep deficit that took a week to recover from.

 

Orexin is also a precursor to leptin, which is lowered while dieting in order to tell the body to hold onto fat stores to avoid starvation.  This would be beneficial from a dieting standpoint if you were trying to get lean.  I have noticed I can lean out easier but I can't attribute it just to Orexin as I had a few other compounds that affixed physical changes in me.

FWIW:  http://www.journalsl....aspx?pid=29048

[Nattzor]

Orexin -

 

I haven't "tested" it outside of intentional sleep deprivation, which is what I wanted the compound for.  In the studies I researched, monkeys had full cognition after being sleep deprived by as many as 36 hours.  I've intentionally stayed up equally long 4x and felt "fine", fully functional, etc.  I can sleep minimally (as in <3hrs/night) for up to four days before it starts to take a cognitive toll on me.  I have learned to not stretch it this far because I would end up in such a sleep deficit that took a week to recover from.

 

Orexin is also a precursor to leptin, which is lowered while dieting in order to tell the body to hold onto fat stores to avoid starvation.  This would be beneficial from a dieting standpoint if you were trying to get lean.  I have noticed I can lean out easier but I can't attribute it just to Orexin as I had a few other compounds that affixed physical changes in me.

FWIW:  http://www.journalsl....aspx?pid=29048

 

That doesn't explain how the effects last. If it's not in your DNA, how does it work? You can't put orexin in your DNA.

[nefarious one]

taken from the link above:
 

Interventions:

To induce ectopic expression of the orexin neuropeptides, we microinjected an adeno-associated viral vector coding for prepro-orexin plus a red fluorescence protein (AAV-orexin) into the mediobasal hypothalamus of Atx and wild-type mice. Control mice received an AAV coding only for red fluorescence protein. Two weeks later, we recorded sleep/wake behavior, locomotor activity, and body temperature and examined the patterns of orexin expression.

 

I really can't explain it any more than this.  The rAAV inserts the compound into your body permanently.  I hate to repeat myself and sound condescending as I'm not at all trying to be such.

 

[Nattzor]

taken from the link above:
 

Interventions:

To induce ectopic expression of the orexin neuropeptides, we microinjected an adeno-associated viral vector coding for prepro-orexin plus a red fluorescence protein (AAV-orexin) into the mediobasal hypothalamus of Atx and wild-type mice. Control mice received an AAV coding only for red fluorescence protein. Two weeks later, we recorded sleep/wake behavior, locomotor activity, and body temperature and examined the patterns of orexin expression.

 

I really can't explain it any more than this.  The rAAV inserts the compound into your body permanently.  I hate to repeat myself and sound condescending as I'm not at all trying to be such.

 

 

Now read it again. (From the full study, the same thing is in the abstract)

 

>The experimental AAV (serotype 8) contained the genes coding for prepro-orexin

 

And more from the full study:

 

>We anesthetized mice with ketamine-xylazine (100 and 10 mg/kg, intraperitoneally) and placed them in a stereotaxic apparatus. To induce orexin expression in a large number of neurons, we microinjected 50 nl of AAV-orexin or AAV-mCherry unilaterally over 5 min. Coordinates for the injections were: AP −1.82 mm, DV −5.3 mm, RL + 0.5 mm, a region just below the dorsomedial nucleus of the hypothalamus (DMH). We targeted this area because previous studies indicated that when driven by a nonspecific promoter, many neurons in the ventral hypothalamus robustly produce orexin-A.²³

 

So you did self surgery of your own brain while being anesthetized with ketamine-xylazine? That's damn hardcore man.

 

So no, orexin + rAAV does not work, the study you linked used GENES.

 

Please explain how you did it for cerebrolysin?

[nefarious one]

lol omg.

 

I can't answer your questions any further than I already have.  No, obviously I didn't use that same admin protocol in the study - I linked it as you stated "Gene therapy makes no sense at all with this" w/r/t Orexin. 

[nefarious one]

again, very simply:

 

each compound or transgene (obv there isn't a gene for Cere, so the compound itself) was embedded into an rAAV.  1 rAAV with only cerebro, 1 rAAV with Orexin, etc etc.

 

Each rAAV was administered separately until they affixed.  ~30 days per compound in duration.

 

It's really that simple.

[3dbrainarray]

What kind of adeno-associated virus you use(it's can be "not for humans version")? with what copy of a gene(2x it's can be "not human version" recombinant)?
If you really do that, please share information about your findings (links)
I really interested in permanent things:)
For example this:
http://www.clinicaln...124ad06803.html

[nefarious one]

I'm not certain on the serotype, but I have every reason to believe that it was either 4 or 5.  They also could have differed for each compound.  (I ran 9 total compounds).

 

I know that for Orexin and a few others, the transgenes were used.  I couldn't tell you if they were human or mouse, etc.  My source for this stuff is very specifically vague as they know if I know *exactly* what to order, then I can get it elsewhere (lol).  I relied on their decades of knowledge / experience with all recommendations, as I have for years with other things I've gotten from them.

You may find Vector Biolabs a useful resource for searching and Q&A.  I did not buy from Vector and they had nothing to do with my projects, but they were a useful source of information for me in my initial research.

[nefarious one]

I just read that article, thanks for posting.  NGF is fascinating to me and I want to explore it down the road for another possible round on myself.  There are a few others I am awaiting feedback on that purportedly would increase IQ, but I need their input first.

 

 

[Nattzor]

lol omg.

 

I can't answer your questions any further than I already have.  No, obviously I didn't use that same admin protocol in the study - I linked it as you stated "Gene therapy makes no sense at all with this" w/r/t Orexin. 

 

Yupp, that study didn't use "orexin", it used genes for orexin. You however said:

 

then i placed the order for each adeno-associated virus with each compound.  so, one rAAV with cerebro, one with Orexin-A, etc etc.

 

Not prepro-orexin (which codes for both orexin-a and -b). You're talking about just giving them orexin-a without any genes (same for cere). All the research I've seen also seem to inject things into the brain directly (either cells already "infected" or the virus itself), you haven't said anything about it. You seem to have changed it to gene now though.

 

 

again, very simply:

 

each compound or transgene (obv there isn't a gene for Cere, so the compound itself) was embedded into an rAAV.  1 rAAV with only cerebro, 1 rAAV with Orexin, etc etc.

 

Each rAAV was administered separately until they affixed.  ~30 days per compound in duration.

 

It's really that simple.

HOW IS CERE EMBEDDED AND IMPLEMENTED?! Is just the peptide sequence you're encoding and your body then produces some from time to time? From what I understand there are tons of peptides (and a lot of different things like minerals and vitamins) and I can't find the sequence of them online, link plox?