337 replies to this topic

[StevesPetRat]

"We are seeing more evidence that depression can be a necessary and beneficial adaptation to dealing with major, complex issues that defy easy understanding."
 
"The research suggests that depression may be a natural condition in which the mind concentrates involuntarily on a complex issue to the point where it allocates resources to analyzing the problem at hand, diminishing concentration on other aspects of living, perhaps giving rise to disrupted eating, sleeping and social interaction that are associated with depression."

If this hypothesis is true, why do rats and such exhibit depressive behaviors? Is it so that they can bring to bear their tremendous cognitive faculties and discover the meaning of rat-life?

Sorry, I tease, but this is just too ... mmm... intelligent-design-y? Personally, depression has done NOTHING but worsen my problem solving and cognitive abilities. Mine was triggered by illness, though, so it might not be going down this "evolutionarily adaptive" pathway.

I can see the counterargument that many famous geniuses were depressed or otherwise mentally ill, and my rebuttal is that intellect is correlated with glial cell density, and mental illness may largely derive also from microglial inflammation, so there ya go. Just an unfortunate side effect. Not causal in any way.

[eon]

how many rats do you know? You ever seen the rats in the city streets how happy they are roaming around and being fat as a cat? It's the rats that are "captured" that are depressed.

 

I think in a teenager's life in a modern world they feel "captured" by parents which is why I think depression starts out in those adolescent years. The mathematician Paul Erdos, I think once said why he never married was because to be married is to be captured. Something like that. Hence why divorce rates are high and lots of people aren't happy in their relationships when one has to feel obligated to be someone's "captive" (aka bitch).

 

Curious what "may have been" if you weren't depressed? Only you can guess. But if "what may have been" didn't come through, would that disappoint you and eventually lead you to a depression, which more likely is what led to your depression to begin with? There's a saying "if at first you don't succeed, try again". Those failure after failure may have contributed to those "geniuses" you mentioned into depression to protect them? I'm speculating. But protect them from what? Does that mean depression shuts their brains down from overloading? It would be nice if we could turn it back on wouldn't it?

 

One of the commentators on the link below said, "Depression takes over when one thinks as if 'uncertainty will be solved' or as if "uncertainty has been solved". The unsolvable friction between this moment and the next sustains life, sustains interest in life." So in other words it keeps you guessing what the problem is?

 

http://medicalxpress...depression.html

 

I'm trying to decipher that comment as when a person thinks he/she thinks they may solve their problems, but is uncertain (as anything in life), that person becomes disappointed that the problem simply cannot be solved. And just when you think the problem has been solved, another one rises and you're back to ZERO. It's part of life. Remember what types of problems you had 10 years ago that isn't even a problem now, but you are facing newer problems at present. 

 

Maybe your problem solving really isn't worse now, it's just that the problem itself is uncertain and has no conclusive answer? Which is why you keep getting frustrated which in turn "depression" kicks in to "depress" you down, as much as you'd like to solve whatever the problems are. Maybe the answer is to let it all go and not worry too much? Maybe being anxious is linked to depression? I sure was anxious as a child before it led to my depression.

 

A lot of those people who are thinkers and problem solvers who were pioneers and discoverers had some type of mental issue, they think too much. It can be a bad thing in other words.

 

I think in the modern world there are more uncertainty and looking forward to the future which is an anxiety in itself. There's lots more follow ups and pressure per se like going to school, getting married, looking forward to retirement, etc. There's no guarantee in this world so this uncertainty makes one anxious trying to solve their problems and if they can't find the answers they are looking for, depression "protects" them (from whatever it is that's supposed to protecting them from, I don't know).

 

 

"We are seeing more evidence that depression can be a necessary and beneficial adaptation to dealing with major, complex issues that defy easy understanding."
 
"The research suggests that depression may be a natural condition in which the mind concentrates involuntarily on a complex issue to the point where it allocates resources to analyzing the problem at hand, diminishing concentration on other aspects of living, perhaps giving rise to disrupted eating, sleeping and social interaction that are associated with depression."

If this hypothesis is true, why do rats and such exhibit depressive behaviors? Is it so that they can bring to bear their tremendous cognitive faculties and discover the meaning of rat-life?

Sorry, I tease, but this is just too ... mmm... intelligent-design-y? Personally, depression has done NOTHING but worsen my problem solving and cognitive abilities. Mine was triggered by illness, though, so it might not be going down this "evolutionarily adaptive" pathway.

I can see the counterargument that many famous geniuses were depressed or otherwise mentally ill, and my rebuttal is that intellect is correlated with glial cell density, and mental illness may largely derive also from microglial inflammation, so there ya go. Just an unfortunate side effect. Not causal in any way.

 

 

Edited by eon, 29 November 2014 - 06:07 AM.

[StevesPetRat]

Curious what "may have been" if you weren't depressed? Only you can guess. But if "what may have been" didn't come through, would that disappoint you and eventually lead you to a depression, which more likely is what led to your depression to begin with?
...
Maybe your problem solving really isn't worse now, it's just that the problem itself is uncertain and has no conclusive answer? Which is why you keep getting frustrated which in turn "depression" kicks in to "depress" you down, as much as you'd like to solve whatever the problems are. Maybe the answer is to let it all go and not worry too much? Maybe being anxious is linked to depression? I sure was anxious as a child before it led to my depression.
 
A lot of those people who are thinkers and problem solvers who were pioneers and discoverers had some type of mental issue, they think too much. It can be a bad thing in other words.

I have no doubt that some of your points are valid in general, but you're making a lot of assumptions in my case. So let me clarify.

In high school, our English teacher picked me, out of the entire class, to be the example of the vocabulary word "sanguine," meaning optimistic, happy-go-lucky, even in the face of adversity. It was an accurate description. I had no fear, no trouble focusing on schoolwork week after week, and minimal difficulty dealing with stress in my life. After a year and a half of college, at the age of 19, I contracted the Epstein-Barr virus. My physical symptoms lasted only a few weeks. Yet after that, I never had the same focus, energy, cognitive capacity, interest in life, etc. I went from near straight A's to something like a C average. I patiently waited for the symptoms to go away, as everyone assured me they would. I rested, exercised, etc. These things helped, some. I held out hope for a long time that things would go back to the way they were, but I never got more than halfway back to baseline. I could not focus on schoolwork except in a crisis; my stamina for longterm projects evaporated. I did not ruminate on these things, on "what might have been." Yet in retrospect the pattern is obvious. I only developed anxiety many years later. A longtime friend who never knew me before the sickness picked me, out of the entire peer group, to be the character Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh. A complete 180 degree change in personality. You're telling me this change happened not because of a virus, but because some obstacle came up in life that I couldn't solve, so I got stuck in some persistent mental state that was otherwise completely alien to me? I don't buy it, and I don't see the adaptive advantage of it.

Anyway, just my personal experience.

[eon]

Brain stimulation offers hope for depression, but don't try it at home...

 

http://medicalxpress...-dont-home.html

 

"Unlike electroconvulsive therapy, TDCS uses very mild electric current to stimulate the brain and has few side effects. The mechanics of TDCS are quite simple, involving a battery, two leads and the electrodes through which the current is passed."

 

Easy said than done. I've been electrocuted lightly before from the hands. I was using those electric water heater and checked on the water if it's hot yet without unplugging the water heater medium. Not sure if this would have done me any good if I got electrocuted from the head area. LOL.

Edited by eon, 04 December 2014 - 05:56 PM.

[Flex]

Cholinesterase inhibitors do increase currents as well, though perhaps not comparable to direct currents.

Interrestingly there was a study which used both:

Focusing effect of acetylcholine on neuroplasticity in the human motor cortex.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18160652

 

But I would rather avoid to mix them up at home ála DIY.

Be careful with currents, do You know what happens when the current is to high ?

The aminoacids coagulate, means they( the cells) are literary fried and I´ve got the feeling that currents of near below that benchmark arent either healthy.

 

 

[eon]

Feelings Of Guilt During Childhood Linked To Mental Illness

 

"Excessive guilt is a known symptom of adult depression, but a new study finds that such feelings in childhood can predict future mental illness, including depression, anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorder and bipolar disorder."

 

"The link seems to center around the anterior insula -- a brain region involved in the regulation of perception, emotion and self-awareness that has also been linked to mood disorders, anxiety disorders and schizophrenia. According to the researchers, children who displayed signs of pathological guilt had anterior insula with less volume, which is associated with depression, and were also more likely to become depressed."

 

"More than half of the 47 preschoolers diagnosed with depression displayed pathological guilt, compared with 20 percent of the non-depressed preschoolers. The researchers found that the children with high levels of guilt, even if they weren't depressed, had smaller anterior insula volume -- which has been found to predict later occurrences of depression. Children with smaller insula volume in the right hemisphere, related to either depression or guilt, were more likely to have recurring episodes of clinical depression when they got older."

 

"While childhood guilt might give rise to these changes in the brain, it's also possible that children predisposed to depression are also more likely to experience excessive guilt."

 

http://www.huffingto...kusaolp00000592

 

So guilt changes brain? I remember having guilt during childhood and onto my teens then eventually the illness set in during early adulthood. What would a person be called without guilt, a sociopath or a psychopath? LOL. At least those types aren't depressed right?

 

Regarding volume of the anterior insula, less means you are or will be depressed at some point, so how does one pump up more volume to this anterior insula, if possible? This is my first time hearing it. If there is such a compound to increase the volume of the anterior insula, what could that possibly be?

 

I could say I lived in a strict household. Religion came to play (nothing says guilty when you are called a sinner from the day you were born!). Also, my mother didn't allow "girlfriends" the way some "cool hippie parents" do. My mom was not that cool. I guess this guilt and anxiety of having to hide the "girlfriend" from the parent(s) does lead to being too careful which is where OCD becomes helpful, which is why I think it formed!

 

Schools and other institutions that like to shame the kids for being late and not doing homework causes guilt to some who cared. So I guess depression is DESTINY to some. Oh well... 

Edited by eon, 08 January 2015 - 08:38 AM.

[Al Capacino]

I think it's more likely guilt is a symptom not that it changes our brains to any great extent. Excessive guilt is just another symptom of depression.

I recall feeling very guilty towards my parents in my mid teens for no reason whatsoever other than my seeming inferiority complex which obviously was the beginnings of my anxiety which then led to depression and where I am now at 31. Just constant depression and anxiety.

[Flex]

I have this feeling of guilty sometimes too and its for no reason.

Interrestingly theres a connection between higher worry of reoccurence of cancer in patients who are cured and hippocampal volume.

So this "could" be a symptom of something that doesnt work propperly and triggers thoose feeling.

 

Relationship between distressing cancer-related recollections and hippocampal volume in cancer survivors.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12450961

https://books.google... cancer&f=false

 

I believe ( so take it rather as a hint instead for sure) that I´ve read just recently that a certain cytokine ( interferone, Inteleukine, TNF & etc) is responsible for triggering memories in PTSD patients, but I cant find it.

[fall]

 

how many rats do you know? You ever seen the rats in the city streets how happy they are roaming around and being fat as a cat? It's the rats that are "captured" that are depressed.

 

I think in a teenager's life in a modern world they feel "captured" by parents which is why I think depression starts out in those adolescent years. The mathematician Paul Erdos, I think once said why he never married was because to be married is to be captured. Something like that. Hence why divorce rates are high and lots of people aren't happy in their relationships when one has to feel obligated to be someone's "captive" (aka bitch).

 

Curious what "may have been" if you weren't depressed? Only you can guess. But if "what may have been" didn't come through, would that disappoint you and eventually lead you to a depression, which more likely is what led to your depression to begin with? There's a saying "if at first you don't succeed, try again". Those failure after failure may have contributed to those "geniuses" you mentioned into depression to protect them? I'm speculating. But protect them from what? Does that mean depression shuts their brains down from overloading? It would be nice if we could turn it back on wouldn't it?

 

One of the commentators on the link below said, "Depression takes over when one thinks as if 'uncertainty will be solved' or as if "uncertainty has been solved". The unsolvable friction between this moment and the next sustains life, sustains interest in life." So in other words it keeps you guessing what the problem is?

 

http://medicalxpress...depression.html

 

I'm trying to decipher that comment as when a person thinks he/she thinks they may solve their problems, but is uncertain (as anything in life), that person becomes disappointed that the problem simply cannot be solved. And just when you think the problem has been solved, another one rises and you're back to ZERO. It's part of life. Remember what types of problems you had 10 years ago that isn't even a problem now, but you are facing newer problems at present. 

 

Maybe your problem solving really isn't worse now, it's just that the problem itself is uncertain and has no conclusive answer? Which is why you keep getting frustrated which in turn "depression" kicks in to "depress" you down, as much as you'd like to solve whatever the problems are. Maybe the answer is to let it all go and not worry too much? Maybe being anxious is linked to depression? I sure was anxious as a child before it led to my depression.

 

A lot of those people who are thinkers and problem solvers who were pioneers and discoverers had some type of mental issue, they think too much. It can be a bad thing in other words.

 

I think in the modern world there are more uncertainty and looking forward to the future which is an anxiety in itself. There's lots more follow ups and pressure per se like going to school, getting married, looking forward to retirement, etc. There's no guarantee in this world so this uncertainty makes one anxious trying to solve their problems and if they can't find the answers they are looking for, depression "protects" them (from whatever it is that's supposed to protecting them from, I don't know).

 

 

"We are seeing more evidence that depression can be a necessary and beneficial adaptation to dealing with major, complex issues that defy easy understanding."
 
"The research suggests that depression may be a natural condition in which the mind concentrates involuntarily on a complex issue to the point where it allocates resources to analyzing the problem at hand, diminishing concentration on other aspects of living, perhaps giving rise to disrupted eating, sleeping and social interaction that are associated with depression."

If this hypothesis is true, why do rats and such exhibit depressive behaviors? Is it so that they can bring to bear their tremendous cognitive faculties and discover the meaning of rat-life?

Sorry, I tease, but this is just too ... mmm... intelligent-design-y? Personally, depression has done NOTHING but worsen my problem solving and cognitive abilities. Mine was triggered by illness, though, so it might not be going down this "evolutionarily adaptive" pathway.

I can see the counterargument that many famous geniuses were depressed or otherwise mentally ill, and my rebuttal is that intellect is correlated with glial cell density, and mental illness may largely derive also from microglial inflammation, so there ya go. Just an unfortunate side effect. Not causal in any way.

 

 

Eon, you think too much   
You made some really good points there. I have been feeling really bad tonight and not been able to sleep. Up until I read your words. I feel more at ease now, good night.

[ILIkeBeer]

Well here is some great news on one of the drugs I have been following!!

 

http://www.fool.com/...ession-may.aspx

 

It is looking very promising for all of us suffering!

[Milkyway]

It is nice you are hopeful.  I hope it does help.  It could help or over time just become another habit to feed or both by helping at first and then becoming a habit.  At least everybody knows what stocks to invest in.

[ILIkeBeer]

It is nice you are hopeful.  I hope it does help.  It could help or over time just become another habit to feed or both by helping at first and then becoming a habit.  At least everybody knows what stocks to invest in.

 

ON the same note you seem pessimistic... true that could be a likely case... even if it is a habit though if it helps who cares?  As long as it keeps helping. 

[eon]

Hard to believe that company's stock price is higher than Pfizer! I think esketamine has greater potential as an antidepressant. Johnson & Johnson is said to be putting it out in 2017! 

 

It is nice you are hopeful.  I hope it does help.  It could help or over time just become another habit to feed or both by helping at first and then becoming a habit.  At least everybody knows what stocks to invest in.

 

[eon]

If FDA passes it, great. If not, hopefully it becomes available as a nootropic. 

 

Well here is some great news on one of the drugs I have been following!!

 

http://www.fool.com/...ession-may.aspx

 

It is looking very promising for all of us suffering!

 

[Al Capacino]

I don't know much about this drug.

I am a bit disheartened to read that it's not meant as a replacement for today's ssris and snris but to be take alongside them.

[Flex]

It sems very interresting for the treatment resistant depressions, but I dont see anything that is beeing modulated for the normal depressions. So in my view its more like happy pill, although a promising one.

Furthermore it actually just overlaids the cause in inflammation related depression, without affecting the roots as well as usual antidepressants.

In other words, by just affecting the downstream targets, in contrast to herbs & natural compounds which are more likely capable to do so *

 

So depression is an inflammatory disease, but where does the inflammation come from?

http://www.biomedcen...741-7015/11/200

 

...However, clinical depression is accompanied by a “resistance” to these ex vivo or in vitro effects of antidepressants attenuating inflammation and T cell activation [14]. Moreover, remission of clinical depression is accompanied by a normalization of inflammatory markers [15], while lack of response is associated with persistently elevated levels of inflammatory markers [16]. This resistance to the immunosuppressive effects of antidepressants in depressed patients may be explained by chronic inflammatory processes, chronic damage by O&NS and the onset of autoimmune responses...

 

Inflammatory activation is associated with a reduced glucocorticoid receptor alpha/beta expression ratio in monocytes of inpatients with melancholic major depressive disorder

http://www.nature.co...tp2013118a.html

 

*

New drug targets in depression: inflammatory, cell-mediated immune, oxidative and nitrosative stress, mitochondrial, antioxidant, and neuroprogressive pathways. And new drug candidates--Nrf2 activators and GSK-3 inhibitors.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22271002

 

Andrographolide activates the canonical Wnt signalling pathway by a mechanism that implicates the non-ATP competitive inhibition of GSK-3β: Auto regulation of GSK-3β in vivo.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25423492

 

NeuroActin

The History of Andrographis

http://www.hpingredi...page=NeuroActin

which contains actually just an extract of Andrographis paniculata

 

..p-hydroxybenzyl alcohol (HBA), an active component of Gastrodia elata Blume..

p-Hydroxybenzyl alcohol prevents brain injury and behavioral impairment by activating Nrf2, PDI, and neurotrophic factor genes in a rat model of brain ischemia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21347705

 

..Curcumin, the principal curcuminoid derived from the spice turmeric, influences several biological mechanisms associated with major depression, namely those associated with monoaminergic activity, immune-inflammatory and oxidative and nitrosative stress pathways, hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis activity and neuroprogression..

Curcumin for the treatment of major depression: a randomised, double-blind, placebo controlled study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25046624

 

Effects of Scutellaria baicalensis Georgi on macrophage-hepatocyte interaction through cytokines related to growth control of murine hepatocytes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16565440

 

If You are interrested in more informations:

Immunosuppression by NMDA-Receptor Antagonists is Mediated Through Inhibition of Kv1.3 and KCa3.1 Channels in T cells

http://mcb.asm.org/c...273-13.full.pdf

From inflammation to sickness and depression: when the immune system subjugates the brain

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2919277/

Edited by Flex, 09 January 2015 - 06:29 PM.

[eon]

I think there are people who take anti-inflammatory drugs (OTC) for a reason. One, to fight off inflammation and two for other purposes. People add low-dose aspirin to their daily health stack. I even started a thread about ibuprofen, aspirin's competition. I think lots of sources can cause inflammation, even exercise? Look into bugs like Toxoplasmosis and Lyme disease. There's threads for it that I participate in.

[Flex]

You could also use herbs which seemingly decrase the expression of e.g. cox-2, so You wouldnt have to use OTC every day

 

Andrographis paniculata which decreases inflammatory receptor expression.

Study of anti-inflammatory activities of the pure compounds from Andrographis paniculata (burm.f.) Nees and their effects on gene expression.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20728594

 

Scutellaria baicalensis which inhibits cox-2 expression

Inhibition of cancer cell proliferation and prostaglandin E2 synthesis by Scutellaria baicalensis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12874003

 

 

Anti-inflammatory activity of the methanol extract of moutan cortex in LPS-activated Raw264.7 cells.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17965763

 

moutan cortex = paeonia suffruticosa = mu dan pi

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2284975

 

and other

Edited by Flex, 10 January 2015 - 05:35 PM.

[eon]

Would Jasmine be effective for depression?

 

According to the article below it is:

 

"The two fragrances vertacetal-coeur (VC) and the chemical variation (PI24513), derived from jasmine flowers, were the strongest, amping up GABA response “as strongly as the known drugs,” the study said."

 

Jasmine scent could replace Valium, scientists discover:

 

http://www.thelocal.de/20100709/28401

 

I did buy the vertacetal-coeur scent product at Perfumers Apprentice:

 

http://shop.perfumer...r-floropal.aspx

 

Just to sample it experimentally and I smelled it. I don't have a conclusion as to what I think of it. I did get my self into aromatherapy and got me a diffuser and various scents, Jasmine included. I got the real Jasmine essential oil rather than the chemical version of the Jasmine "note". I didn't know Jasmine would affect any of the neurotransmitters. I just got some Jasmine tea as well. I have yet to try it.

 

11 Scents That Can Do Wonders For Your Well-Being

 

http://www.huffingto..._n_5193609.html

Edited by eon, 12 January 2015 - 11:43 AM.

[Flex]

wow nice. Didnt know that aroma thrapy is that strong.

Magnolia extract does also increase GABA, but dont affect all GABA receptors, although its still strong.

Edited by Flex, 12 January 2015 - 05:48 PM.

[Al Capacino]

This study was on frogs and mice in a lab back in 2010. There doesn't seem to have been any studies on humans published since which would make me think the media report was a bit over exaggerated to compare it to valium of all things!

[ILIkeBeer]

I don't know much about this drug.

I am a bit disheartened to read that it's not meant as a replacement for today's ssris and snris but to be take alongside them.

 

They say that in the studies and such but from all I know about it it is not an add on treatment.

As an add on to this... I take Curcumin , it is an anti-inflammatory and it always seems to clear up my bad moods.

 

 

It sems very interresting for the treatment resistant depressions, but I dont see anything that is beeing modulated for the normal depressions. So in my view its more like happy pill, although a promising one.

Furthermore it actually just overlaids the cause in inflammation related depression, without affecting the roots as well as usual antidepressants.

In other words, by just affecting the downstream targets, in contrast to herbs & natural compounds which are more likely capable to do so *

 

So depression is an inflammatory disease, but where does the inflammation come from?

http://www.biomedcen...741-7015/11/200

 

...However, clinical depression is accompanied by a “resistance” to these ex vivo or in vitro effects of antidepressants attenuating inflammation and T cell activation [14]. Moreover, remission of clinical depression is accompanied by a normalization of inflammatory markers [15], while lack of response is associated with persistently elevated levels of inflammatory markers [16]. This resistance to the immunosuppressive effects of antidepressants in depressed patients may be explained by chronic inflammatory processes, chronic damage by O&NS and the onset of autoimmune responses...

 

Inflammatory activation is associated with a reduced glucocorticoid receptor alpha/beta expression ratio in monocytes of inpatients with melancholic major depressive disorder

http://www.nature.co...tp2013118a.html

 

*

New drug targets in depression: inflammatory, cell-mediated immune, oxidative and nitrosative stress, mitochondrial, antioxidant, and neuroprogressive pathways. And new drug candidates--Nrf2 activators and GSK-3 inhibitors.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22271002

 

Andrographolide activates the canonical Wnt signalling pathway by a mechanism that implicates the non-ATP competitive inhibition of GSK-3β: Auto regulation of GSK-3β in vivo.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25423492

 

NeuroActin

The History of Andrographis

http://www.hpingredi...page=NeuroActin

which contains actually just an extract of Andrographis paniculata

 

..p-hydroxybenzyl alcohol (HBA), an active component of Gastrodia elata Blume..

p-Hydroxybenzyl alcohol prevents brain injury and behavioral impairment by activating Nrf2, PDI, and neurotrophic factor genes in a rat model of brain ischemia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21347705

 

..Curcumin, the principal curcuminoid derived from the spice turmeric, influences several biological mechanisms associated with major depression, namely those associated with monoaminergic activity, immune-inflammatory and oxidative and nitrosative stress pathways, hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis activity and neuroprogression..

Curcumin for the treatment of major depression: a randomised, double-blind, placebo controlled study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25046624

 

Effects of Scutellaria baicalensis Georgi on macrophage-hepatocyte interaction through cytokines related to growth control of murine hepatocytes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16565440

 

If You are interrested in more informations:

Immunosuppression by NMDA-Receptor Antagonists is Mediated Through Inhibition of Kv1.3 and KCa3.1 Channels in T cells

http://mcb.asm.org/c...273-13.full.pdf

From inflammation to sickness and depression: when the immune system subjugates the brain

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2919277/

 

[Joe Monroe]

 

Would Jasmine be effective for depression?

 

According to the article below it is:

 

"The two fragrances vertacetal-coeur (VC) and the chemical variation (PI24513), derived from jasmine flowers, were the strongest, amping up GABA response “as strongly as the known drugs,” the study said."

 

Jasmine scent could replace Valium, scientists discover:

 

http://www.thelocal.de/20100709/28401

 

I did buy the vertacetal-coeur scent product at Perfumers Apprentice:

 

http://shop.perfumer...r-floropal.aspx

 

Just to sample it experimentally and I smelled it. I don't have a conclusion as to what I think of it. I did get my self into aromatherapy and got me a diffuser and various scents, Jasmine included. I got the real Jasmine essential oil rather than the chemical version of the Jasmine "note". I didn't know Jasmine would affect any of the neurotransmitters. I just got some Jasmine tea as well. I have yet to try it.

 

11 Scents That Can Do Wonders For Your Well-Being

 

http://www.huffingto..._n_5193609.html

 

 

wow super interesting articles, thanks for that

 

edit: okay I'm confused though.. on the "11 scents that can do wonders for your wellbeing" it says in the study that when they applied jasmine oil to volunteers it increased alertness? But other articles say it increases GABA and sleep? So what does it do both

Edited by Joe Monroe, 13 January 2015 - 03:13 AM.

[eon]

I always hear about curcumin/turmeric, how come no one ever talk about the other spice called cayenne? It was listed as a nootropic in the book Smart Drugs & Nutrition. Cayenne supplements vary in "hotness". I think the hottest I've seen is 100,000 H.U. (heat unit). I've never tried it though advised to start with lower H.U. products such as 40,000 H.U. as it heats your body up. I would think it's antiinflammatory. I wonder if the "heat" is Niacin-like? There are few supplements out there where you notice the effects upfront, not subtle, and I think Niacin is one and so is Cayenne. Not sure about curcumin yet.

 

Does curcumin have high bioavailability? I think I read not really.

 

 

I don't know much about this drug.

I am a bit disheartened to read that it's not meant as a replacement for today's ssris and snris but to be take alongside them.

 

They say that in the studies and such but from all I know about it it is not an add on treatment.

As an add on to this... I take Curcumin , it is an anti-inflammatory and it always seems to clear up my bad moods.

 

 

It sems very interresting for the treatment resistant depressions, but I dont see anything that is beeing modulated for the normal depressions. So in my view its more like happy pill, although a promising one.

Furthermore it actually just overlaids the cause in inflammation related depression, without affecting the roots as well as usual antidepressants.

In other words, by just affecting the downstream targets, in contrast to herbs & natural compounds which are more likely capable to do so *

 

So depression is an inflammatory disease, but where does the inflammation come from?

http://www.biomedcen...741-7015/11/200

 

...However, clinical depression is accompanied by a “resistance” to these ex vivo or in vitro effects of antidepressants attenuating inflammation and T cell activation [14]. Moreover, remission of clinical depression is accompanied by a normalization of inflammatory markers [15], while lack of response is associated with persistently elevated levels of inflammatory markers [16]. This resistance to the immunosuppressive effects of antidepressants in depressed patients may be explained by chronic inflammatory processes, chronic damage by O&NS and the onset of autoimmune responses...

 

Inflammatory activation is associated with a reduced glucocorticoid receptor alpha/beta expression ratio in monocytes of inpatients with melancholic major depressive disorder

http://www.nature.co...tp2013118a.html

 

*

New drug targets in depression: inflammatory, cell-mediated immune, oxidative and nitrosative stress, mitochondrial, antioxidant, and neuroprogressive pathways. And new drug candidates--Nrf2 activators and GSK-3 inhibitors.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22271002

 

Andrographolide activates the canonical Wnt signalling pathway by a mechanism that implicates the non-ATP competitive inhibition of GSK-3β: Auto regulation of GSK-3β in vivo.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25423492

 

NeuroActin

The History of Andrographis

http://www.hpingredi...page=NeuroActin

which contains actually just an extract of Andrographis paniculata

 

..p-hydroxybenzyl alcohol (HBA), an active component of Gastrodia elata Blume..

p-Hydroxybenzyl alcohol prevents brain injury and behavioral impairment by activating Nrf2, PDI, and neurotrophic factor genes in a rat model of brain ischemia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21347705

 

..Curcumin, the principal curcuminoid derived from the spice turmeric, influences several biological mechanisms associated with major depression, namely those associated with monoaminergic activity, immune-inflammatory and oxidative and nitrosative stress pathways, hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis activity and neuroprogression..

Curcumin for the treatment of major depression: a randomised, double-blind, placebo controlled study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25046624

 

Effects of Scutellaria baicalensis Georgi on macrophage-hepatocyte interaction through cytokines related to growth control of murine hepatocytes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16565440

 

If You are interrested in more informations:

Immunosuppression by NMDA-Receptor Antagonists is Mediated Through Inhibition of Kv1.3 and KCa3.1 Channels in T cells

http://mcb.asm.org/c...273-13.full.pdf

From inflammation to sickness and depression: when the immune system subjugates the brain

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2919277/

 

 

It alerts you to go to sleep. LOL.

 

 

 

Would Jasmine be effective for depression?

 

According to the article below it is:

 

"The two fragrances vertacetal-coeur (VC) and the chemical variation (PI24513), derived from jasmine flowers, were the strongest, amping up GABA response “as strongly as the known drugs,” the study said."

 

Jasmine scent could replace Valium, scientists discover:

 

http://www.thelocal.de/20100709/28401

 

I did buy the vertacetal-coeur scent product at Perfumers Apprentice:

 

http://shop.perfumer...r-floropal.aspx

 

Just to sample it experimentally and I smelled it. I don't have a conclusion as to what I think of it. I did get my self into aromatherapy and got me a diffuser and various scents, Jasmine included. I got the real Jasmine essential oil rather than the chemical version of the Jasmine "note". I didn't know Jasmine would affect any of the neurotransmitters. I just got some Jasmine tea as well. I have yet to try it.

 

11 Scents That Can Do Wonders For Your Well-Being

 

http://www.huffingto..._n_5193609.html

 

 

wow super interesting articles, thanks for that

 

edit: okay I'm confused though.. on the "11 scents that can do wonders for your wellbeing" it says in the study that when they applied jasmine oil to volunteers it increased alertness? But other articles say it increases GABA and sleep? So what does it do both

 

 

[Joe Monroe]

Well I bought some jasmine oil... came from india on ebay, normally can't find pure jasmine oil anywhere it's ridiculously expensive, but I bought like 20ml of pure jasmine oil for only 16.50... It actually came like a month before the estimated delivery date. 

 

Umm... I can't really tell if it does anything. I dunno I just rubbed a litte on my skin, probably should put more maybe. 

[eon]

I hope that works for you. Yesterday I drank some Jasmine tea after I had just ingested some magnesium glycinate and put me straight to sleep! There's plenty of Jasmine essential oils for sale in the U.S. just have to look around for the best prices. I've bought some from: Aura Cacia, Ananda Apothecary, and Pureformulas.

[Joe Monroe]

I hope that works for you. Yesterday I drank some Jasmine tea after I had just ingested some magnesium glycinate and put me straight to sleep! There's plenty of Jasmine essential oils for sale in the U.S. just have to look around for the best prices. I've bought some from: Aura Cacia, Ananda Apothecary, and Pureformulas.

 

They do have plenty in the usa, but almost none are 100% jasmine oil, most are actually only about 3% or so. The only other one I actually found on ebay that was 100% was only a .5ml sampler that was still $10, all others seem to be from india sellers. 

[eon]

Could Depression Be Caused By Inflammation In The Brain?

 

http://www.huffingto..._n_6555222.html

 

"There are a number of factors that may play a role in the development of depression, including genetic, environmental, emotional, psychological and biological influences. According to one integrative neuroscientist, depression could even be a form of infectious disease."

 

You don't say!? Funny there's no mention of Lyme disease or Toxoplasmosis, etc. causing depression.

[ILIkeBeer]

I just found a new thing called Theta Burst Therapy it seems to be a lot like tms but faster and more effective... anyone else have information on this?

 

http://www.ctvnews.c...ssion-1.2205080

[eon]

Magnet therapy is not new. I've read a little about it. There was some controversial books published that was banned a while ago for having suggestions, which could be dangerous done at home. I forgot the book's names or the authors. I would think it works safer in a clinical setting. Is this product only in Canada?