390 replies to this topic

[rikelme]

gizmodroid - thank you for sharing your experience! It is very valuable. There are people following this thread, but just don't have anything to contribute at the moment.

 

I know how living / working without a motivation looks like... I always find short (longer the better) gateways tremendously helpful.

[Flex]

gizmodroid - thank you for sharing your experience! It is very valuable. There are people following this thread, but just don't have anything to contribute at the moment.

 

I know how living / working without a motivation looks like... I always find short (longer the better) gateways tremendously helpful.

 

Second this. And if not now, people could read this in the next weeks or months.

I guess the lack of discussion is also present because the only vendor charges ca. 120 dollars for 1 gram.

 

i.e. THT.co but I gues someone could try to override their current policy of not selling to privates by ordering from them via Alibaba.com ?

 

Anyway the Guy from Ceretropic.com has been asked a few times whether he would offer it. Heres his response:

 

https://www.reddit.c..._plan_to_offer/
 

Edited by Flex, 16 October 2015 - 11:32 PM.

[Strangelove]

I was having some good effects from it, but seems to be too potent on its MAOI inhibition properties and possibly be dangerous.

 

I experienced this only once in the past and stopped using it, I got a dosage (sorry do not remember mgs was a while ago) and after an hour or so, I had a good portion of yogurt and got a little dizzy and had a headache also, if it was the known and dangerous "cheese effect" that MAOIs can give, is worrisome as I never had a reaction from strong irreversible MAOIs like tranylcypromine in the past. If 9-me-BC could cause a MAOI reaction to specific foods we have to be careful.

 

Anyone else had a similar reaction? I want to try it again, but I am a little worried. Another problem is that is irritating to soft tissues and is difficult to use sublingually or with other ROAs to avoid the deactivation of MAO in the stomach...

[Strangelove]

 

A question: did you, by any chance, check your blood pressure while taking the substance? Some people have reported elevation in BP while on 9mebc. I'm curious if it affected yours, both while taking it and now after your off of it. Thanks!

 

Just saw this, it makes sense, hopefully a different synthesis could be made in another form that would make the end product not irritating to change the ROA from oral to other options, so we ll not have the MAOI hypertensive side effect.

 

 

Edited by Strangelove, 17 October 2015 - 11:57 AM.

[Strangelove]

I am making continuous posts... But I tried some 9-me-BC sublingually half hour ago, wow again, great stuff, although tired before, my mind is wide awake now, and not in a speedy way.

 

But it seems it might making some damage to my stomach lining and even to my sense of taste, I cannot describe exactly the sensation as I put it in my mouth, but its kind of harsh.

 

Does anyone knows if this is a chemical synthesis or a highly concentrated extract?

 

 

Edited by Strangelove, 17 October 2015 - 01:45 PM.

[Flex]

Do You have some left from THT.co or did You buy it somewhere recently ?

 

Would get my hands onto this but cant find a source. If You want we could exchange it. I have some NSI-189 left and would give You a good ammount for some 9-me-bc

[Strangelove]

At this time I help in distributing NSI-189 here in other Longecity members so I have much in hand.

 

Tht.co is back online and have 9-me-bc back in stock, but they have increased its price - $125/1 gram.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Strangelove, 17 October 2015 - 08:56 PM.

[gizmobrain]

I was having some good effects from it, but seems to be too potent on its MAOI inhibition properties and possibly be dangerous.
 
I experienced this only once in the past and stopped using it, I got a dosage (sorry do not remember mgs was a while ago) and after an hour or so, I had a good portion of yogurt and got a little dizzy and had a headache also, if it was the known and dangerous "cheese effect" that MAOIs can give, is worrisome as I never had a reaction from strong irreversible MAOIs like tranylcypromine in the past. If 9-me-BC could cause a MAOI reaction to specific foods we have to be careful.
 
Anyone else had a similar reaction? I want to try it again, but I am a little worried. Another problem is that is irritating to soft tissues and is difficult to use sublingually or with other ROAs to avoid the deactivation of MAO in the stomach...

Interestingly, I noticed my BP drop a bit, possibly because of not taking any other stimulants. I really didn't notice any negative MAOI reactions, though the mood lift and enhanced energy levels certainly might have been partially attributed to that mechanism. Though, after ceasing, I still feel pleasant and have a bit more mental energy than before taking it.
 

I am making continuous posts... But I tried some 9-me-BC sublingually half hour ago, wow again, great stuff, although tired before, my mind is wide awake now, and not in a speedy way.
 
But it seems it might making some damage to my stomach lining and even to my sense of taste, I cannot describe exactly the sensation as I put it in my mouth, but its kind of harsh.
 
Does anyone knows if this is a chemical synthesis or a highly concentrated extract?

Absolute destruction to the taste buds if it touches your tongue. 10 seconds of contact was enough to make me not be able to taste sweetness for several days.

I ended up dissolving it in ethanol putting it in gelatin caps before consuming.

A method of synthesis is described here:
 

2.2. Synthesis of 9-methyl-b-carboline A solution of 13 g (0.0756 mol) 1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-b-carboline, which was prepared from tryptamine hydrochloride and glyoxylic acid as described else-where (Ho and Walker, 1988), and 2.6 g Pd/C (10%) in 600 mL cumene were refluxed and stirred under N2 for 90 min. After adding 100 mL ethanol, the hot solution was filtrated and the residue was washed with 3 30 mL hot ethanol. The cumene and the ethanol fractions were combined, evaporated, and the residue was crystallized from toluene yielding 10.5 g (82%) of norharman. Fig. 1. Chemical structures of MPP+, 9-methyl-b-carbolineHCl and 2,9-dimethyl-b-carbolinium iodide. J. Hamann et al. / Neurochemistry International 52 (2008) 688–700 689
 
The 9-methylation was conducted as described in the literature (Ho et al., 1969) but with an improved work up: 1 g (5.95 mmol) of norharman were dissolved in 10 mL of dry DMF under N2 and 0.36 g (14.9 mmol) sodium hydride used as a 60% dispersion in petroleum were added at 0 8C. The reaction mixture was allowed to come to room temperature for 1 h. The mixture was cooled to10 8C and 0.84 g (5.95 mmol) of methyl iodide were added. Stirring was continued for 12 h with the mixture returned to room temperature again. Any volatile materials were removed under reduced pressure and 100 mL of water were added and the mixture was extracted with 350 mL of CHCl3. The combined organic fractions were washed with water (5 20 mL) and evapo-rated to dryness. The residue was taken up with 100 mL of 2N hydrochloric acid. To separate starting material from the desired methylated product, ion pair extraction of the HCl salt with CHCl3 was performed for 2 days by using a liquid/liquid extractor. Evaporation gave pure 0.7 g (64%) yellow crystals of 9-methyl-b-carbolinium hydrochloric salt. mp 295 8C; GC/MS for the free base: m/z= 182 (100%), 167 (5%), 140 (10%), 127 (10%), 113 (5%), 91 (10%). 1H NMR (HCl salt): d (ppm) methanol d4, 250 MHz: 4.06 s, 3H, N-CH3; 7.28– 7.35, dt,J = 1.2; 6.8, 1H, H6; 7.58–7.70, m, 2H, H7, H8; 8.13–8.16, d,J = 5.4, 1H, H4; 8.18–8.21, d, J = 7.9, 1H, H5; 8.31–8.33, d, J = 5.4, 1H, H3; 8.89, s, 1H, H1.

Edited by gizmodroid, 18 October 2015 - 01:17 AM.

[Strangelove]

"Absolute destruction to the taste buds if it touches your tongue. 10 seconds of contact was enough to make me not be able to taste sweetness for several days.
I ended up dissolving it in ethanol putting it in gelatin caps before consuming."

 

Interesting, I would have taken this as a joke, but yesterday I had one of my favorite desserts from a an upscaled pastry shop and I found it tasteless, I made the connection, but seemed extreme at that time.

[noot_in_the_sky]

I had a similar effect to you Strangelove, but it only lasted for a few minutes and only for the first 2 or 3 days of taking 9mebc.  I stop taking 9mebc for a few days and after restarting back again I had the same effect for the first couple of days.  In total I use 9mebc for about 4 months, and would love to use it again if any company or group buy would get it at reasonable price.  Perhaps more people should contact Ceretropics and other vendors to help them get motivated.

 

My tongue was also numb by 9me which lasted most of the day.

Edited by noot_in_the_sky, 18 October 2015 - 02:26 PM.

[gizmobrain]

After 5 untreated days, motivation dropped below what I consider to be "functional", but not quite back to pre-treatment levels. I've restarted fasoracetam with good success.

 

10 days during + 5 days post-treatment ameliorating low motivation is an effect I've not obtained through any other therapy/nootropic/supplement/drug.

 

Has anyone been able to unwrap the implications of Mechanisms of DNA damage by photoexcited 9-methyl-β-carbolines ?

 

If anyone spots any new research, I'd love to see it.

 

 

 

 

[Flex]

Dont know looks for me that they are just reffering to the Photo damage.

 

Can only help with a few terms but still not explain what they are talking about in detail.

[Valor5]

J Photochem Photobiol B. 2014 Mar 5;132:66-71. doi: 10.1016/j.jphotobiol.2014.01.020. Epub 2014 Feb 13.
Intra- and extra-cellular DNA damage by harmine and 9-methyl-harmine.
Vignoni M1, Erra-Balsells R2, Epe B3, Cabrerizo FM4.
Author information
Abstract
It is known that β-carbolines are able to produce photosensitized damage in cell-free DNA, but there is little information on their effects on cellular DNA. Therefore, we have analyzed the DNA damage produced by harmine and 9-methyl-harmine under UVA irradiation in V79 cells, together with the associated generation of micronuclei and photocytotoxicity. The results indicate that the most frequent photoproducts generated in the cellular DNA are modified purines such as 8-oxo-7,8-dihydroguanine. Only relatively few single-strand breaks were observed. CPDs were absent, although they were generated in cell-free DNA irradiated under the same conditions. The overall extent of DNA damage in the cells was considerably smaller than the one observed in cell free DNA. The generation of cellular DNA damage was associated with a significant generation of micronuclei and decreased cell proliferation. The data indicate that β-carbolines act as photosensitizers in mammalian cells. The spectrum of DNA modification, and therefore the mechanism of DNA damage generation, differs considerably from that observed with cell-free DNA.

In this experiment there is "decreased cell proliferation" whereas to my recollection in the other studies there is cell proliferation.

Edited by Valor5, 23 October 2015 - 09:14 PM.

[serp777]

J Photochem Photobiol B. 2014 Mar 5;132:66-71. doi: 10.1016/j.jphotobiol.2014.01.020. Epub 2014 Feb 13.
Intra- and extra-cellular DNA damage by harmine and 9-methyl-harmine.
Vignoni M1, Erra-Balsells R2, Epe B3, Cabrerizo FM4.
Author information
Abstract
It is known that β-carbolines are able to produce photosensitized damage in cell-free DNA, but there is little information on their effects on cellular DNA. Therefore, we have analyzed the DNA damage produced by harmine and 9-methyl-harmine under UVA irradiation in V79 cells, together with the associated generation of micronuclei and photocytotoxicity. The results indicate that the most frequent photoproducts generated in the cellular DNA are modified purines such as 8-oxo-7,8-dihydroguanine. Only relatively few single-strand breaks were observed. CPDs were absent, although they were generated in cell-free DNA irradiated under the same conditions. The overall extent of DNA damage in the cells was considerably smaller than the one observed in cell free DNA. The generation of cellular DNA damage was associated with a significant generation of micronuclei and decreased cell proliferation. The data indicate that β-carbolines act as photosensitizers in mammalian cells. The spectrum of DNA modification, and therefore the mechanism of DNA damage generation, differs considerably from that observed with cell-free DNA.

In this experiment there is "decreased cell proliferation" whereas to my recollection in the other studies there is cell proliferation.

 

And? There are bound to be a few studies that contradict each other. Also cell proliferation doesn't necesserily mean dopaminergic neuron proliferation.

[dajoker]

Hi everyone, TLR got in on their site at 79,95$.

I am ordering it right now.

[Baten]

Hi everyone, TLR got in on their site at 79,95$.

I am ordering it right now.

 

Nice! Some healthy competition. Still not on the "cheap" side though.

Considering ordering some to trial with later on, but eh, does TLR not offer any CoA?

Edit: not sure if I really want to order from them, tht.co might be more trustworthy..? No experience with either.

Edited by Baten, 25 October 2015 - 02:27 PM.

[Strangelove]

As I said I like its effects, but have in mind the MAOI diet and if you get any reactions like headache, diiziness and hypertension.

[Valor5]

From the original study that cites how the synthesis of 9-me-bc is carried out here is an image from that citation, found full text at TLR. And how the molecule looks like from the photo toxicity study I and gizmodroid posted. The molecules appear to be different. The last two are from the photo toxicity studies.

 

 

 

Edited by Valor5, 25 October 2015 - 09:38 PM.

[rikelme]

From the original study that cites how the synthesis of 9-me-bc is carried out here is an image from that citation, found full text at TLR. And how the molecule looks like from the photo toxicity study I and gizmodroid posted. The molecules appear to be different. The last two are from the photo toxicity studies.

 

 

Yes, on the bottom picture the molecule has two methyl (CH₃) groups compared to one in the top one. Even the name of the molecule suggests that.

[dajoker]

The Maoi diet is low tyramine all right , but back to the Parnate conclusion,
will a intranasal application will help avoid the interaction , thus
permite me have my glass of wine?

[Strangelove]

The Maoi diet is low tyramine all right , but back to the Parnate conclusion,
will a intranasal application will help avoid the interaction , thus
permite me have my glass of wine?

 

This is the logic of the selegiline patch, I am not sure if avoiding contact with the stomach lining is 100% effective, but in any case MAOI risks are highly overestimated and different from individual to individual (some people that use the drug, test reactions with low amount of prohibited foods, measuring their blood pressure), dose is very important also, 30mg tranylcypromine (usual dosage is between 30-60mg) orally would not need much of a diet according to a German study I was looking some time ago.

 

According to my experience you have more to worry with 9-me-bc than tranylcypromine. Personaly never had a reaction to tranylcypromine when using it orally, when with 9-me-bc I had the reaction of dizziness and headache with a yogurt I described before. If the main psychoactive effect of 9-me-bc is due to MAO inhibition seems quite potent! A very large number of plants have a MAO inhibition effect, having tried some, nothing was any near except maybe syrian rue.

[dajoker]

From what i understand the beta carbolines are reverseble
maois, does that aply to 9mbc?

[dajoker]

And if it does, how long does it take to be free of his maoi
induced altercations?

[Valor5]

Tried 30mg last week I think it did something but not sure what gave me some insomnia or if it is safe. Left it alone for several days until today because I was desperate for something to lift the fog. I think today it did motivate me. But I noticed I had trouble talking which happens to me under certain circumstances memantine actually helps me talk more fuently, this may trigger something anyhow gonna give it 12 days at 30mg don't know if I should try 60mg. I think it lifted the fog today because I was feeling as dumb as a rock at work and after I took I got some idea of what to do ect. Those with slow cognitive tempo will understand.

Edited by Valor5, 03 November 2015 - 09:28 PM.

[macropsia]

Glad to see people are still interested in this....

 

I've found the safest/most effective dose to be about 5-10 mg sublingual. Much faster than oral, and feels somewhat safer.

Small bits (sub 5) have added a nice twinkle to tryptamines and amphetamines.

 

For safety reasons, small amounts occasionally seem best. When I've taken moderate doses it has seemed best taken in little bits instead of one dose once a day.

 

 

Do not combine with 2c-x compunds.

 

 

[Strangelove]

I got two PMs from members asking me for safety, I do not really know... If its a reversible MAOI should be much safer than the irreversibles MAOIs I mentioned before.

 

To be fair, I am thinking I did not have a reaction from Parnate as from fear of the dietary interactions I used it mostly rectaly, and even with this ROA I am still careful with the interactions from drugs and nootropics I use.

 

9-me-bc has potential for mood boosting effects, if its reversible (in theory) there are far less need for diet restrictions, and (at least) the immediate effects are better than all the other MAOIs I have tried. There is potential in this category of drugs, but unfortunatelly new research stopped two decades ago.

[Baten]

 I noticed I had trouble talking which happens to me under certain circumstances memantine actually helps me talk more fuently, [...]

 

Funny you mention this, I'm experimenting with memantine and notice I'm much more talkative while on it. I seriously chatter on and on to friends and family at times, which is really quite out of character. Some people told me it's as if I "really changed lately" but it's really just a memantine side-effect, heh.

[Valor5]

This substance took away some of my appreciation for certain things and changed my character for the worst and also after the second day of trying it it hurt my stomach. It lead to emotional blunting which is paradoxical because it seems to help with motivation and focus but I would not put much stock in that. I play the violin and now I feel like it has degraded some of my skill like my vibrato seems off. I like animals and after taking this I noticed I appreciated them less. Several stated that it took away taste even for several days. That does not sound good one bit. The most precious neurotransmitter is Dopamine, IMO but I like them all. It is life itself. Why would you want to mess with this? Don't play with your brain. This quest that many have here for power is a deadly fatal delusion. I wholly distrust pharmaceuticals and those who think they are god and can play god with the human body which it is impossible for them to understand fully. Insane, insanity. There was/is a guy here who threw away $16,000 thousand dollars for some magic powder. How can people be so gullible and stupid. This is nothing but a power trip, a get rich quick scheme. People who dabble with this are going to be disappointed. Self-centeredness and greed is a road to perdition.You get only one life and one set of body parts to play with them is utter madness, stupidity. I am really kind of angry at this community because the people here seem to be careless about their influence. The stuff here is dangerous. Don't play with your brain. The idea of immortality as a sinner was first proposed by Satan "you will be as gods" a complete lie in the garden of Eden. You will get regrettable side-effects, after effects from these concoctions of human science. "Cursed is the man that trusteth in man..." I would stick with simple plants and herbs, exercise, water, natural surroundings, fresh air. All the stuff here is very very shady. AT YOUR OWN RISK and WARNING THIS COULD ADVERSELY AFFECT YOUR HEALTH should be posted on every page. This stuff should be discarded. This is probably the first and last time I will be trying experimental research chemicals. Science seems like a never ending quest to figure out god which it will and can never be done. There is a proverb that says, "the blessing of the Lord it maketh rich and he addeth no sorrow with it." If you are experiencing lack of prosperity and sorrow it is because something in your life is out of order. Get back in order and good will happen in consequence and you will not experience bad after-effects, sorrow or sadness. This is the true litmus test. I would probably recommend Aripiprazole to this. If you need something go with something tried and tested and regulated, not experimental. I think they have similar effects except for the somnolescence that Aripiprazole can cause, at least to me initially. I don't take it anymore though. I would also not recommend going through shady channels. Let the chips fall where they may I am nearly forty years old so getting judged by some half baked teen or 20 year old means nothing. With age comes wisdom.

 

 

 

-Cursed is the man that trusteth in man...

-The Devil said to the woman, thou shalt not surely die. News flash YOU WILL ALL DIE!!! Just as has been the case for THOUSANDS of years. There are only a very few that will not see death but that is a whole different subject.

Edited by Valor5, 07 November 2015 - 05:54 PM.

[gizmobrain]

Just to clarify, taste was desensitized only by direct contact with the tongue. This would happen with a lot of compounds and isn't an indicative of anything other than the fact that sublingual might not be the best route of administration. 

 

I didn't have any of the other side effects mentioned, and actually noticed a significant increase in appreciation for life.

[Baten]

@Valor5

 

Or, you know, some people might want to take it for regeneration of dopaminergic neurons. That was kind of the thread.

(But yes, curious people looking into 'life/brain enhancement' will always be attracted to powerful molecules. Caution is always warranted).