5 replies to this topic

[beez]

I came across an article talking about how creatine helps with cognition the article even said that creatine improved intelligence test results!

This sounds fascinating. Does anyone here know more about creatine in cognition? I only know it for improving strength.

How much creatine would you have to take daily to get these benefits?

And another issue, could you take creatine when you're on ssri or other antidepressants? What if creatine could cause serious side effects

just like tryptophan?

[Tom_]

I'm willing to bet that, that article didn't link/refence any (or only 1-2) studies and that none of those studies were well controlled or had significant numbers, or in fact were on humans?

 

There is some very flimsy evidence that creatine helps with cognition as far as I'm aware only one study (very underpowered) shows this and it was in rats (I'm ignoring two studies on human veggies/vegans vs omnivors which had serious methodological problems). Any effect it does have is proberly mediated through its effects on glucose. As such you are as likely to get more benefits from a glucose pill.

 

I can't think of any theoretical potential for pharmodynamic interactions, I checked against 2 drug interaction checkers and got my book on psychiatric prescribing out to triple check and there was no mention of creatine being a problem.

 

If you are having cognitive problems due to depression, anxiety or other mental health problem (I assume that's why you are on the SSRI :L), you are probs more likely to see more benefit in bringing that to remission than with creatine. Psychotherapy (group, 1:1 therapy, Online CBT, book CBT are all effective) behavioual activation, reducing stessors and mindfulness practice combined or alone are very useful and equally effective adjuncts to antidepressants. You may also want to increase the dose of your antidepressant, make a switch, combine with another antidepressant or try an agumentation stratagy (all of which with more information I would happily provide advice on).

 

If you are in remission and are currently on a mainance dosage and feel the antidepressant is causing the cognitive dsysfunction you may want to try and lower the dose (up to half) (this shouldn't be tried if you are still having any symptoms). You should be on an antidepressant for 9-12 months after a first episode of treated depression has FULLY responded, 2 years if the episode was severe (severe as defined by any of the following significant psychomotor changes, suicide attempt or a reasonable plan having been made for one, cataonia, psychotic symptoms, unable to work/study) or it was a second episode, 5 years plus if it is a third episode. So if you can hold out until the end of that time then if the AD is causing the problem you should bounce back quickly. Its also possible you could add a medication like Bupropion/Wellbutrin, a psychostimulant or modafinil to your treatment...even more so if you are still experiencing some symptoms, although only bupropion (of the above list) should be added if you are experiencing significant symptoms as psychostims and modafinil DO NOT appear to have antidepressive effects.

 

As a side note, Tryptophan with SSRI's is mostly safe, unless ultra high doses of either are being used. It does increase the theoretical risk of Serotonin toxicity (ST) but in the two (?) trials of SSRI's combined with Tryptophan no-one exibited ST and they have been used with Cyclic ADs (admittedly many have less effect on Serotonin that some SSRI's) for years. It should be monitored by a professional but its perfectly viable as long as you start low and go slow. I've heard of people on Clomipramine, Lithium Carbonate, L-Tryptophan AND Escitlopram for very treatment refactory OCD. Tryptophan however shouldn't be combined with an MAOI unless under review by an experienced and often specialist prescriber.

[beez]

Thanks for the advice.

But if tryptophan isn't that dangerous with ssri, why do all ssris have a warning? To me this is very confusing.

 

I really don't know if there's anything which can cure my depression either drugs or psychotherapy. When everything sucks then there isn't much you can do about it.

You cannot simply flip a switch and not hate your life anymore. I tried PT and I found it a total letdown. It made me even more depressed.

 

[Tom_]

I have never actually seen that on an antidepressant insert.

 

I'm not saying there isn't potential for bad interactions between ssri's and tryptophan but they are extremely unlikely. People who would have this kind of interaction are likely to be about 1:1000.

 

I wouldn't suggest combining an SSRI with Tryptophan anyway, as there is little evidence for effiacy and plenty of other more likely possibilites.

 

Depression is a disorder that can be treated and can always be brought to remission.

 

Do you mind if I ask you some questions - so I get a hang of what's going on with you and see if I can come up with some ideas you could bring to your doctor? (I'm more than happy for you to PM me the answers if thats more comtable for you (of course if you don't want to answer them either thats fine! ).

 

Would you mind filling in this questionaire and giving me the number? http://www.ibogaine..../3639b1c_23.pdf

 

How old are you? How much do you weigh, how tall are you and what sex are you?

Other than depression do you have any other physical or psychiatric disorders, diagnosed by a health professional?
Do you use drugs (of any kind), if so, what are they how often? (include booze but not nicotine)?

How long have you been depressed, roughtly (please include periods of being well if they apply (when and for how long)?

Do you seem to get signifcantly better for a couple of months or even years before becoming very depressed again, but never being fully 'well'?
Is there a history of depression, anxiety disorders, suicide (or suicide attempts), or bi-polar disorder in family?

Have you ever attempted suicide?

Have you ever deliberately harmed yourself?
How do you sleep? Do you have insomnia? (if so is it onset, middle or late and how much), how much sleep do you get? Do you sleep 10+ hours a day? Has anyone ever complained you snore very loudly?

Do you have a job or study?

How is your appetite?

Does your mood respond to good things (even a little bit), before going back to what is was?
Would you say you are a sensitive person (easily upset, highstrung etc)?

What medication are you currently taking, in what dose and what for, and for how long? (include supplements and the like)?

You said you had tried psychotherapy before. What type was it, who was it with (a psychologist, councler, psychiatrist, therapist...?), how long did it last, you said it made you feel worse, did you get any positives from it, even if they didn't outweigh the negatives?
What mediactions have you tried for your mental health, at what doses and how long for (be as spesific as you can but no worries if you can't remeber exactly)?

Do you have problems with anxiety? If so, are they constant niggling worries that seem irrational, focused around socializing, related to the same thoughs just keep gooing round in your head (maybe worrying if you locked the door, even though you know you have), related to a major trauma or stessor in your life or are they panic attacks?
Do you feel hopeless, discourged or ok about your future?
Do you have thoughts you would be better off dead or a desire to be dead, seriously considering suicide?

You hinted you might be in a bad or stresseful situation "When everything sucks then there isn't much you can do about it" can you expand on that?

I might have some follow up questions if you do decide to answer them.

 

Tom

Edited by Tom_, 17 May 2014 - 04:01 PM.

[Tom_]

Oh have there ever been any periods on your life when you have experienced more than 3 of the following (which three) for more than 2 days? A very good mood, being very irritable (these first two CAN come together, for example being in a good mood but very quick to anger or constantly swapping thoughout the day), felt the need to keep talking/being told you are talking to much/talking inappoiately, had signifcantly worse concentration than ususal, had a big increase in interest in sex, engaged in high risk pleaureble behaviour significantly more than ususal (like gamberling, sexual escapades, drug abuse, fast driving etc...)

[beez]

Hi, Tom a lot of questions. I'll try to answer them but need to wait til I have some more time on my hands.

As for your lasts question. No I dont have these bipolar symptoms. I am only depressed most of the time.