• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Meat molecules in allergic, autoimmune, and inflammatory disorders

alpha(13)gal antibodies igf-1 neu5gc sialic acid

  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic
⌛⇒ MITOMOUSE has been fully funded!

#1 Phoenicis

  • Guest
  • 339 posts
  • 77
  • Location:-
  • NO

Posted 16 May 2014 - 12:39 PM


"Our immune response against a foreign molecule present in animal products may play a role in some allergic, autoimmune, and inflammatory disorders. This reaction is thought to underlie tick bite triggered meat allergies."

  • igf-1
  • Neu5Gc
  • sialic acid
  • alpha-gal

What are your thoughts? Check out the video linked just bellow.

 

 

Sources Cited

DH Lachance, VA Lennon, SJ Pittock, JA Tracy, KN Krecke, KK Amrami, EM Poeschla, R Orenstein, BW Scheithauer, JJ Sejvar, S Holzbauer, AS Devries, PJB. Dyck. An outbreak of neurological autoimmunity with polyradiculoneuropathy in workers exposed to aerosolised porcine neural tissue: A descriptive study. Lancet Neurol. 2010 9(1):55 – 66. 

A Kutlu, S Oztürk, O Taşkapan, Y Onem, MZ Kiralp, L Ozcakar. Meat-induced joint attacks, or meat attacks the joint: Rheumatism versus allergy. Nutr Clin Pract. 2010 25(1):90 – 91. 

U Galili, EA Rachmilewitz, A Peleg, I Flechner. A unique natural human IgG antibody with anti-alpha-galactosyl specificity. J Exp Med. 1984 160(5):1519 – 1531. 

A Thall, U Galili. Distribution of Gal alpha 1----3Gal beta 1----4GlcNAc residues on secreted mammalian glycoproteins (thyroglobulin, fibrinogen, and immunoglobulin G) as measured by a sensitive solid-phase radioimmunoassay. Biochemistry. 1990 29(16):3959 – 3965. 

U Galili. Interaction of the natural anti-Gal antibody with alpha-galactosyl epitopes: A major obstacle for xenotransplantation in humans. Immunol Today. 1993 14(10):480 – 482. 

DKC Cooper. Identification of alpha Gal as the major target for human anti-pig antibodies. Xenotransplantation. 2009 16(1):47 – 49. 

M Morisset, C Richard, C Astier, S Jacquenet, A Croizier, E Beaudouin, V Cordebar, F Morel-Codreanu, N Petit, DA Moneret-Vautrin, G Kanny. Anaphylaxis to pork kidney is related to IgE antibodies specific for galactose-alpha-1,3-galactose. Allergy. 2012 67(5):699 – 704. 

SP Commins, HR James, LA Kelly, SL Pochan, LJ Workman, MS Perzanowski, KM Kocan, JV Fahy, LW Nganga, E Ronmark, PJ Cooper, TAE. Platts-Mills. The relevance of tick bites to the production of IgE antibodies to the mammalian oligosaccharide galactose-alpha-1,3-galactose. J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2011 127(5):1286– 93. 

SP Commins, TAE Platts-Mills. Delayed anaphylaxis to red meat in patients with IgE specific for galactose alpha-1,3-galactose (alpha-gal). Curr Allergy Asthma Rep. 2013 13(1):72 – 77. 

National Center for Emerging and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases. Amblyomma americanum tick. 2010. 

HM Feder Jr, DM Hoss, L Zemel, SR Telford 3rd, F. Dias, G. P. Wormser. Southern Tick-Associated Rash Illness (STARI) in the North: STARI following a tick bite in Long Island, New York. Clin Infect Dis. 2011 53(10):e142 – 6. 

SP Commins, SM Satinover, J Hosen, J Mozena, L Borish, BD Lewis, JA Woodfolk, TAE Platts-Mills. Delayed anaphylaxis, angioedema, or urticaria after consumption of red meat in patients with IgE antibodies specific for galactose-a-1,3-galactose. J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2009 123(2):426-33. 

SA Van Nunen, KS O'Connor, LR Clarke, RX Boyle, SL Fernando. An association between tick bite reactions and red meat allergy in humans. Med J Aust. 2009 190(9):510 – 511. 

CV Hartig, GW Haller, DH Sachs, S Kuhlenschmidt, PS Heeger. Naturally developing memory T cell xenoreactivity to swine antigens in human peripheral blood lymphocytes. J Immunol. 2000 164(5):2790 – 2796. 

DE Mosedale, A Chauhan, PM Schofield, DJ Grainger. A pattern of anti-carbohydrate antibody responses present in patients with advanced atherosclerosis. J Immunol Methods. 2006 309(1 - 2):182 – 191. 

A Mangold, D Lebherz, P Papay, J Liepert, G Hlavin, C Lichtenberger, A Adami, M Zimmermann, D Klaus, W Reinisch, HJ Ankersmit. Anti-Gal titers in healthy adults and inflammatory bowel disease patients. Transplant Proc. 2011 43(10):3964 – 3968. 

MS Sandrin, HA Vaughan, PX Xing, IF McKenzie. Natural human anti-Gal alpha(1,3)Gal antibodies react with human mucin peptides. Glycoconj J. 1997 14(1):97 – 105. 

L Gollogly, V Castronovo. A possible role for the alpha 1-->3 galactosyl epitope and the natural anti-gal antibody in oncogenesis. Neoplasma. 1996 43(5):285 – 289. 

M Mayr, D Grainger, U Mayr, AS Leroyer, G Leseche, A Sidibe, O Herbin, X Yin, A Gomes, B Madhu, JR Griffiths, Q Xu, A Tedgui, CM Boulanger. Proteomics, metabolomics, and immunomics on microparticles derived from human atherosclerotic plaques. Circ Cardiovasc Genet. 2009 2(4):379 – 388. 

RJ Winand, JW Devigne, M Meurisse, U Galili. Specific Stimulation of Graves’ Disease thyrocytes by the natural anti-Gal Antibody from normal and autologous serum. J Immun. 1994 153(3):1386-1395. 

EJ Masters, CN Grigery, RW Masters. STARI, or Masters Disease: Lone Star tick-vectored Lyme-like Illness. Infect Dis Clin N Am. 2008 22(2):361–376. 
 
The Video Referenced:
 

 

Sources Cited

E. S. Johnson. Cancer mortality in workers employed in cattle, pigs, and sheep slaughtering and processing plants. Environ Int 2011 37(5):950 - 959. 

A. 't Mannetje, A. Eng, N. Pearce. Farming, growing up on a farm, and haematological cancer mortality. Occup Environ Med 2012 69(2):126 - 132. 

K.-M. Choi, E. S. Johnson. Occupational exposure assessment using antibody levels: Exposure to avian leukosis/sarcoma viruses in the poultry industry. Int J Environ Health Res 2011 21(4):306 - 316. 

K.-M. Choi, E. S. Johnson. Industrial hygiene assessment of reticuloendotheliosis viruses exposure in the poultry industry. Int Arch Occup Environ Health 2011 84(4):375 - 382. 

D. Neasham, A. Sifi, K. R. Nielsen, K. Overvad, O. Raaschou-Nielsen, A. Tjonneland, A. Barricarte, C. A. González, C. Navarro, L. R. Suarez, R. C. Travis, T. Key, J. Linseisen, R. Kaaks, P. Crosignani, F. Berrino, S. Rosso, A. Mattiello, R. C. H. Vermeulen, H. B. Bueno-de-Mesquita, G. Berglund, J. Manjer, S. Zackrisson, G. Hallmans, B. Malmer, S. Bingham, K. T. Khaw, M. M. Bergmann, H. Boeing, A. Trichopoulou, G. Masala, R. Tumino, E. Lund, N. Slimani, P. Ferrari, P. Boffetta, P. Vineis, E. Riboli. Occupation and risk of lymphoma: A multicentre prospective cohort study (EPIC). Occup Environ Med 2011 68(1):77 - 81. 

E. S. Johnson, H. Ndetan, M. J. Felini, M. F. Faramawi, K. P. Singh, K.-M. Choi, R. Qualls-Hampton. Mortality in workers employed in pig abattoirs and processing plants. Environ. Res. 2011 111(6):871 - 876. 

S. R. Jónsson, R. S. LaRue, M. D. Stenglein, S. C. Fahrenkrug, V. Andrésdóttir, R. S. Harris. The restriction of zoonotic PERV transmission by human APOBEC3G. PLoS ONE 2007 2(9):e893 

Y. Takeuchi, J. Fishman. Long life with or without PERV. Xenotransplantation 2010 17(6):429 - 430. 

S. M. Holzbauer, A. S. DeVries, J. J. Sejvar, C. H. Lees, J. Adjemian, J. H. McQuiston, C. Medus, C. A. Lexau, J. R. Harris, S. E. Recuenco, E. D. Belay, J. F. Howell, B. F. Buss, M. Hornig, J. D. Gibbins, S. E. Brueck, K. E. Smith, R. N. Danila, W. I. Lipkin, D. H. Lachance, P. J. B. Dyck, R. Lynfield. Epidemiologic investigation of immune-mediated polyradiculoneuropathy among abattoir workers exposed to porcine brain. PLoS ONE 2010 5(3):e9782. 

M. Lotti, L. Bergamo, B. Murer. Occupational toxicology of asbestos-related malignancies. Clin Toxicol (Phila) 2010 48(6):485 - 496. 

M. Felini, E. Johnson, N. Preacely, V. Sarda, H. Ndetan, S. Bangara. A pilot case-cohort study of liver and pancreatic cancers in poultry workers. Ann Epidemiol 2011 21(10):755 - 766. 

S. M. Lynch, A. Vrieling, J. H. Lubin, P. Kraft, J. B. Mendelsohn, P. Hartge, F. Canzian, E. Steplowski, A. A. Arslan, M. Gross, K. Helzlsouer, E. J. Jacobs, A. LaCroix, G. Petersen, W. Zheng, D. Albanes, L. Amundadottir, S. A. Bingham, P. Boffetta, M.-C. Boutron-Ruault, S. J. Chanock, S. Clipp, R. N. Hoover, K. Jacobs, K. C. Johnson, C. Kooperberg, J. Luo, C. Messina, D. Palli, A. V. Patel, E. Riboli, X.-O. Shu, L. R. Suarez, G. Thomas, A. Tjonneland, G. S. Tobias, E. Tong, D. Trichopoulos, J. Virtamo, W. Ye, K. Yu, A. Zeleniuch-Jacquette, H. B. Bueno-de-Mesquita, R. Z. Stolzenberg-Solomon. Cigarette smoking and pancreatic cancer: A pooled analysis from the pancreatic cancer cohort consortium. Am. J. Epidemiol. 2009 170(4):403 - 413. 

J.-M. Yuan, S. Govindarajan, K. Arakawa, M. C. Yu. Synergism of alcohol, diabetes, and viral hepatitis on the risk of hepatocellular carcinoma in blacks and whites in the U.S. Cancer 2004 101(5):1009 - 1017. 

E. S. Johnson, M. F. Faramawi, M. Sall, K.-M. Choi. Cancer and noncancer mortality among American seafood workers. J Epidemiol 2011 21(3):204 - 210. 

M. Marvisi, L. Balzarini, C. Mancini, P. Mouzakiti. A new type of Hypersensitivity Pneumonitis: Salami brusher's disease. Monaldi Arch Chest Dis 2012 77(1):35 - 37. 

R. Weiner, D. Rees, F. J. Lunga, M. A. Felix. Third wave of asbestos-related disease from secondary use of asbestos. A case report from industry. S. Afr. Med. J. 1994 84(3):158 - 160. 

D. H. Lachance, V. A. Lennon, S. J. Pittock, J. A. Tracy, K. N. Krecke, K. K. Amrami, E. M. Poeschla, R. Orenstein, B. W. Scheithauer, J. J. Sejvar, S. Holzbauer, A. S. Devries, P. J. B. Dyck. An outbreak of neurological autoimmunity with polyradiculoneuropathy in workers exposed to aerosolised porcine neural tissue: A descriptive study. Lancet Neurol 2010 9(1):55 - 66. 

J. A. Tracy, P. J. B. Dyck. Auto-immune polyradiculoneuropathy and a novel IgG biomarker in workers exposed to aerosolized porcine brain. J. Peripher. Nerv. Syst. 2011 16 (Suppl 1):34 - 37 

L. Proietti, L. Spicuzza, A. Di Maria, R. Polosa, E. S. Torres, V. Asero, G. U. Di Maria. Non-occupational malignant pleural mesothelioma due to asbestos and non-asbestos fibres. Monaldi Arch Chest Dis 2006 65(4):210 - 216. 

E. S. Johnson, H. Ndetan, K. M. Lo. Cancer mortality in poultry slaughtering/processing plant workers belonging to a union pension fund. Environ Res. 2010 110(6):588-594. 

X. J. Meng. Emerging and Re-emerging Swine Viruses. Transbound Emerg Dis. 2012 Jan 9. 

T. M. Deangelis, L. Shen. Outbreak of progressive inflammatory neuropathy following exposure to aerosolized porcine neural tissue. Mt Sinai J Med. 2009 76(5):442-447. 

J. Z. Adjemian, J. Howell, S. Holzbauer, J. Harris, S. Recuenco, J. McQuiston, T. Chester, R. Lynfield, A. Devries, E. Belay, J. Sejvar. A clustering of immune-mediated polyradiculoneuropathy among swine abattoir workers exposed to aerosolized porcine brains, Indiana, United States. Int J Occup Environ Health. 2009 15(4):331-338. 

M. Greenberg. Swine abattoir workers exposed to aerosolized porcine brains: will we ever learn? Int J Occup Environ Health. 2010 16(1):101. 

Kutlu A, Oztürk S, Taşkapan O, Onem Y, Kiralp MZ, Ozçakar L. Meat-induced joint attacks, or meat attacks the joint: rheumatism versus allergy. Nutr Clin Pract. 2010 Feb;25(1):90-1. 
 
 

Edited by Phoenicis, 16 May 2014 - 01:25 PM.

  • like x 3
  • dislike x 2

#2 misterE

  • Guest
  • 1,028 posts
  • -84
  • Location:Texas
  • NO

Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:05 AM

I personally believe most of the autoimmune-disorders and inflammatory-diseases come from the high amounts of arachidonic-acid found in meat and egg-yolks. 



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for NUTRITION to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 niner

  • Guest
  • 16,276 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 18 May 2014 - 03:59 AM

 

What are your thoughts? Check out the video linked just bellow.

 

My thoughts are that the NutritionFacts.org guy is a well known vegan troll, who's always cooking up scary videos that sound sciency, but his speculative take on the literature blows by so past that there's no chance to evaluate it.  No need to evaluate, I suppose, if, like Fox Mulder, you want to believe.   I know that you (Phoenicis) have said you are a vegan for health reasons.  Is that really true?  Here's a test:  would you eat a modest amount of very high quality meat (organic, grass fed, slaughtered by a priest, a rabbi, and an imam, etc) if it were served to you in a social situation where refusing it would be a faux pas?  Would you be appalled by such a situation?  Would you feel physically ill?   I avoid sugar for health reasons, but if I had to eat a piece of cake, or other sweet thing, not only would I eat it, I'd enjoy it.  If I avoided sugar for moral or religious reasons, I don't think I would react that way.  If you're a moral vegan, that's fine, I just think you should admit it if that's the case.  Why am I harping on this?  Because I get the sense that you are trying to convince others to join your side.  That kind of evangelism seems like there's more to it than just health reasons.  I'm not saying this on the basis of this post alone, but on the totality of your posts here.

 

Those are my thoughts.


  • like x 3
  • dislike x 2
  • Well Written x 1

⌛⇒ MITOMOUSE has been fully funded!

#4 Phoenicis

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 339 posts
  • 77
  • Location:-
  • NO

Posted 18 May 2014 - 11:40 AM

I actually just wanted to discuss the the merits of this theory and research, which I thought was rather clever. As I've said before I'm not a moral vegan at all, I'm an atheist and I think religious people would be more offended by atheism than a plant based diet. Anyway, most religions are actually quite tolerant and even supportive of vegans. The other day I did taste a little bit of frog legs because I had never tried that before, so I make rare exceptions.

 

I don't eat meat habitually because I suffer from an autoimmune disease called psoriasis which is made worse by eating meat and dairy. Evidence links elevated mTOR, arachidonic acid, and other inflammatory compounds found mostly in meat, to a worsened state of the disease. See my thread.

 

I was actually hoping someone with knowledge on the subject would be willing present studies on this topic.Let's not derail the thread, no one is asking you to join any side. I was quite intrigued by the Neu5Gc and AlphaGal theories. I think it would be interesting to investigate. 


Edited by Phoenicis, 18 May 2014 - 12:04 PM.

  • like x 3
  • dislike x 1

#5 Phoenicis

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 339 posts
  • 77
  • Location:-
  • NO

Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:44 PM

Many of the compounds that worsen the autoimmune condition arthritis have also been implicated in psoriasis. Dr. Greger is not on his own here, this requires further study - 

 

Mild to Moderate Psoriasis, Third Edition  John Y. M. Koo, Ethan C. Levin, Argentina Leon and Jashin J. Wu (22 Apr 2014)

 

 "One potential proinflammitory compound found in red meat is a monosaccharide known as Neu5Gc. Neu5Gc accumulates in tissues after excess consumption of meat and dairy and is thought to be immunogenic [33, 34]. When meat is consumed regularly, it may lead to low levels of chronic inflammation that may increase the risk for autoimmune disease and cancer [33, 34]. Psoriasis patients are at increased baseline risk for some malignancies, including nonmelanoma skin cancers, lymphoma, and esophageal cancer, and this risk increases with more severe disease. [35]. Thus, by reducing meat intake, psoriasis patients may decrease systemic inflammation, improve psoriasis, and possibly decrease cancer risk. However the role of Neu5Gc in psoriasis has not been specifically examined."

 

[...]

 

"In addition to its proinflammatory effects, excess consumption of animal protein may enhance angiogenisis, a pathological component of both psoriais and cancer [36]. Increased angiogenisis in psoriatic plaques is needed for keratinocyte hyperproliferation and recruitment of lymphocytes, neutophils, and dendritic cells. The angiogenic mediators insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) [37, 38-40] and vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) [40] are shown to increase after high protein meals. IGF-1 facilitates angiogenisis in several ways, including increasing the sensitivity of endothelial cells to VEGF [39, 40]. Animal proteins have a unique ability to raise serum IGF-1 levels through upregulated hepatic synthesis and enhanced glucose-dependant insulin secretion [41]. Epidemiologic studies show an association between animal protein consumption and increased IGF-1 levels [42-44]."

 

 

Neu5Gc is addressed in this video:

 

 

Sources Cited

McDougall J, Bruce B, Spiller G, Westerdahl J, McDougall M. Effects of a very low-fat, vegan diet in subjects with rheumatoid arthritis. J Altern Complement Med. 2002 Feb;8(1):71-5. 

Varki A. Colloquium paper: uniquely human evolution of sialic acid genetics and biology. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2010 May 11;107 Suppl 2:8939-46. 

Tangvoranuntakul P, Gagneux P, Diaz S, Bardor M, Varki N, Varki A, Muchmore E. Human uptake and incorporation of an immunogenic nonhuman dietary sialic acid. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2003 Oct 14;100(21):12045-50. 

Padler-Karavani V, Yu H, Cao H, Chokhawala H, Karp F, Varki N, Chen X, Varki A. Diversity in specificity, abundance, and composition of anti-Neu5Gc antibodies in normal humans: potential implications for disease. Glycobiology. 2008 Oct;18(10):818-30. 

Varki, A.: Evolutionary Perspectives on the Origin of Diseases IN, Current Trends in Sciences (Invited Book Chapter), Ed. N. Mukunda. Indian Academy of Sciences, Bangalore, India, pp. 395-402, 2009. 

Edited by Phoenicis, 18 May 2014 - 02:42 PM.

  • like x 2

#6 Phoenicis

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 339 posts
  • 77
  • Location:-
  • NO

Posted 18 May 2014 - 04:02 PM

I think there is also a misunderstanding here, I have never argued that eating meat is unethical. Provide some links to back up those claims. If you met me in public you would never guess that I'm vegan. I'm a young, well dressed professional and I have a taste for leather jackets when I'm not in a suit. In fact the primary purpose for my interest in diet is motivated more by my desire to maintain good looks. When I was 19 my psoriasis broke out for the first time and ruined my appearance. It was only after making some lifestyle changes like quitting smoking and becoming vegan that this improved. In fact the problem has now disappeared and I am investigating why. So no, I don't care about your diet habits if they make you happy, this was meant to be more of discussion of the science. 

 

 

 

 

What are your thoughts? Check out the video linked just bellow.

 

My thoughts are that the NutritionFacts.org guy is a well known vegan troll, who's always cooking up scary videos that sound sciency, but his speculative take on the literature blows by so past that there's no chance to evaluate it.  No need to evaluate, I suppose, if, like Fox Mulder, you want to believe.   I know that you (Phoenicis) have said you are a vegan for health reasons.  Is that really true?  Here's a test:  would you eat a modest amount of very high quality meat (organic, grass fed, slaughtered by a priest, a rabbi, and an imam, etc) if it were served to you in a social situation where refusing it would be a faux pas?  Would you be appalled by such a situation?  Would you feel physically ill?   I avoid sugar for health reasons, but if I had to eat a piece of cake, or other sweet thing, not only would I eat it, I'd enjoy it.  If I avoided sugar for moral or religious reasons, I don't think I would react that way.  If you're a moral vegan, that's fine, I just think you should admit it if that's the case.  Why am I harping on this?  Because I get the sense that you are trying to convince others to join your side.  That kind of evangelism seems like there's more to it than just health reasons.  I'm not saying this on the basis of this post alone, but on the totality of your posts here.

 

Those are my thoughts.

 

 


Edited by Phoenicis, 18 May 2014 - 04:04 PM.


#7 misterE

  • Guest
  • 1,028 posts
  • -84
  • Location:Texas
  • NO

Posted 18 May 2014 - 04:29 PM

 

 

 

"In addition to its proinflammatory effects, excess consumption of animal protein may enhance angiogenisis, a pathological component of both psoriais and cancer [36]. Increased angiogenisis in psoriatic plaques is needed for keratinocyte hyperproliferation and recruitment of lymphocytes, neutophils, and dendritic cells. The angiogenic mediators insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) [37, 38-40] and vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) [40] are shown to increase after high protein meals. IGF-1 facilitates angiogenisis in several ways, including increasing the sensitivity of endothelial cells to VEGF [39, 40]. Animal proteins have a unique ability to raise serum IGF-1 levels through upregulated hepatic synthesis and enhanced glucose-dependant insulin secretion [41]. Epidemiologic studies show an association between animal protein consumption and increased IGF-1 levels [42-44]."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Believe it or not, but this is actually protective against diabetes and heart-disease, but bad for preexisting cancer. Diabetics are known to be resistant to IGF-1 and have low levels of VEGF and reduced angiogenesis. Folks with cancer have the opposite. I believe that diabetes and cancer exist on opposite extremes. But in regards specifically to the thread. The main problem I see with animal-fats is the high concentration of cholesterol, arachidonic-acid and dioxins, heavy-metals and other containments. There are virtually thousands upon thousands of industrial-chemicals that accumulate in animal-fats, everything from PCB to flame-retardants! There is no telling what kind of an effect this would have on the immune-system, besides the well known negative effects of AA on the immune-system and inflammatory diseases.

 

Another problem with the modern-diet is the use of polyunsaturated vegetable-oils, which also lead to increased AA production. The accumulation of linoleic-acid and AA in mothers-milk and the fact that baby-formula is made from corn and soybean oil, is probably one of the main reasons why we have so many (inflammatory) diseases and why people are aging faster.

 

A diet based on grains, flour, beans, potatoes, vegetables, fruits, juice, skim-milk, egg-whites, coconut-oil and flaxseeds seems to cover all bases when it comes to nutrition, and provides the perfect ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 and is void of AA.


Edited by misterE, 18 May 2014 - 04:31 PM.

  • Well Written x 1

#8 niner

  • Guest
  • 16,276 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 18 May 2014 - 10:09 PM

Phoenicis, thanks for clarifying your position. I've gotten kind of sensitive to vegan evangelism because there is just so much of it here. There are some posters who virtually never post anything but that, and it gets a little old. I'm sorry to hear about your psoriasis. It's a very distressing condition that can also be hard to treat. So let's look at some of the science. I just picked the first one from the previous video, and it turns out to be a good example of my beef (as it were...) with the NutritionFacts.org guy. In this paper, the patients got a very intense intervention, and they were not blinded to it, which of course would have been difficult. This is the perfect setup for a placebo effect. These patients lost a lot of weight, which reduces stress on the joints, and is usually one of the first suggestions made to people with arthritis. Even with the weight loss and placebo effect going for them, they just slipped over the lowest rung of statistical significance, and even then not on all metrics. Because the effect was so small, and the confounders so large, this study is nearly meaningless, and it would be hard to get it published in most journals. I suspect that the standards of J Altern Complement Med were pretty low in 2002. Michael Greger, the Nutrition "Facts" guy, doesn't point out any of the problems with this or other papers, because he is making persuasion videos in the service of his ideology. That's usually not a good way to get the real story, and just as an observation, organizations that focus on the word "Facts" usually play fast and loose with them.

It may be the case that a vegan diet is helping you to avoid psoriasis, but quitting smoking is a huge and important change, and I would tend to look to that as the reason, as well as other lifestyle changes.

I recently saw a paper that found significant improvement (not "cure") in psoriasis with supplementation of Pycnogenol at 150mg/d. I couldn't find the full text so can't comment on the quality of the study, but generic pine bark extract is cheap.
 

J Altern Complement Med. 2002 Feb;8(1):71-5.
Effects of a very low-fat, vegan diet in subjects with rheumatoid arthritis.
McDougall J1, Bruce B, Spiller G, Westerdahl J, McDougall M.

OBJECTIVE:

To demonstrate the effects of a very low-fat, vegan diet on patients with rheumatoid arthritis (RA).
DESIGN:

Single-blind dietary intervention study. SUBJECTS AND STUDY INTERVENTIONS: This study evaluated the influence of a 4-week, very low-fat (approximately 10%), vegan diet on 24 free-living subjects with RA, average age, 56 +/- 11 years old. Outcome measurements: Prestudy and poststudy assessment of RA symptomatology was performed by a rheumatologist blind to the study design. Biochemical measures and 4-day diet data were also collected. Subjects met weekly for diet instruction, compliance monitoring, and progress assessments.
RESULTS:

There were significant (p < 0.001) decreases in fat (69%), protein (24%), and energy (22%), and a significant increase in carbohydrate (55%) intake. All measures of RA symptomatology decreased significantly (p < 0.05), except for duration of morning stiffness (p > 0.05). Weight also decreased significantly (p < 0.001). At 4 weeks, C-reactive protein decreased 16% (ns, p > 0.05), RA factor decreased 10% (ns, p > 0.05), while erythrocyte sedimentation rate was unchanged (p > 0.05).
CONCLUSION:

This study showed that patients with moderate-to-severe RA, who switch to a very low-fat, vegan diet can experience significant reductions in RA symptoms.

PMID: 11890437



#9 Phoenicis

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 339 posts
  • 77
  • Location:-
  • NO

Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:12 PM

Thanks for the phycnogenol. I'll look into that, seems it improves skin dryness too.

 

Darryl brought up something interesting on disquss:

 

"Interesting fact: we have more circulating antibodies against alpha-Gal and Neu5gc conjugated proteins (each ~ 20 μg/mL) than we have against A/B blood types (~ 10 μg/mL).

[...]

Antibody concentrations in vegans are little studied. One study of gluten-free vegan diets in rheumatoid arthritis patients found ~35% reduction in antibodies against β-lactoglobulin (from dairy), and 30 to 65% reduction in antibodies against gliadin (from wheat). So perhaps vegans have fewer of the anti-α galactose and anti-Neu5Gc antibodies as well."


Edited by Phoenicis, 19 May 2014 - 04:15 PM.


⌛⇒ MITOMOUSE has been fully funded!

#10 misterE

  • Guest
  • 1,028 posts
  • -84
  • Location:Texas
  • NO

Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:55 PM

 

 

perhaps vegans have fewer antibodies as well.

 

 

 

Well they have much less accumulation of AA too, which means their inflammatory response will not be overly dramatic. 

 







0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users