14 replies to this topic

[penisbreath]

So, given all the JDtic rage and whatnot, I jumped on the kappa-antagonist bandwagon and decided to test a combination of buprenorphine and low-dose naltrexone (based on celebes recommendation).

 

I was using the 8mg strips, which are kinda hard to cut and dose, given the propensity for the pieces to just vanish in your mouth occasionally. But I would typically dissolve between 0.125 and 0.45mg under my tongue, and then take a shot of 5-10mg of LDN. The LDN kicks in after about an hour, and the buprenorphine 90 minutes later.

 

Buprenorphine alone just made me puke for about 24 hours. If I got the ratio wrong and combined too much buprenorphine with LDN, I'd feel foggy but calm and sedate. Now, given my baseline of akathisia and terrible sympathetic activation, I'm sure my experience is very skewed -- but overall, I found the kappa-antagonist experience to be slightly disappointing. 

 

The most prominent changes were:

 

A clearer head.

More physical energy.

Less pain.

Better focus.

Socially, I was able to look others in the eye with far more ease; my sense of humor was also a little better.

 

I know all that stuff is technically a plus. However, it did almost nothing for my awful phobic avoidance and OCD, aside from clearing my head a little. There wasn't much reduced fear. I was still cripplingly fearful of very irrational things. And I also didn't feel much of a restoration of my inner life and emotions -- love, warmth, associations, sensations etc. In fact, it increased my irritability. Overall, the experience was comparable to a low-dose of Dexedrine .. 

 

I tried it 4 days in a row, stopping because I was scared of a rebound effect. Withdrawal symptoms have included increased pain/fatigue and anhedonia. Only other thing I'm taking is resistant starch and melatonin at night. 

 

Like I say, my conditions are atypical and dosing was also off at times, so who knows. 

[FeelsNumbMan]

Thanks a lot for sharing. I've actually been looking about this because of celebes' mention of it in the thread talking about KOR. I'd love to give it a try myself but I'm afraid if it might cause any loss of appetite.

[medievil]

Does anyone have a link to that guys experience?

[FeelsNumbMan]

http://www.longecity...tionwithdrawal/

 

I believe it's in this thread. There might be some others, but that's the only one I recall.

 

lucky.pierre, what were you using this combo for specifically? Just curious. I still love to give it a try eventually.

[penisbreath]

FeelsNumbMan, I was trying it for severe OCD w/ chronic dissociative symptoms.

 

In fact, because life is so generally lame and I have so much buprenorphine lying around (I bought the bulk of a guy's stash for cheap), I tested it again today. 

 

I was using the ratio Celebes recommended (0.25mg:4.5mg bup:LDN), and dosed it all at once in the morning. Maybe the greater potency of the strips plays into it, but it just felt too strong once again -- I was energetic, but irritable and dysphoric; it felt like bad speed. I guess too much catecholamine release?

 

The benefits became more apparent in the evening, when things had calmed down .. I mean, I take photographs as a hobby and can say I notice a subtle pro-cognitive effect, in addition to colors, textures etc. simply appearing more interesting. Sense of humour is better. I can hold eye contact with pretty girls on the train. But sadly it does little for anxiety, aside from the aforementioned head-clearing and improved stress response.

 

Maybe it would be a nice addition to an SSRI? My sympathetic tone is wreaked and has probably deformed hedonic experience anyway. I've ordered some Guanfacine for my akathisia and if that can hopefully help, it might make the bup/LDN smoother. 

 

[FeelsNumbMan]

Thanks again for sharing. There needs to be more people who are willing to try these things out. Suboxone is illegal without prescription, right? And where did you buy your Naltrexone, or is it illegal to source on this forum?

 

I also suffer from some OCD, but more from shit like depression and anhedonia. I'm willing to try LDN itself too as suboxone might be harder to get, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't just want to try LDN by itself and leave it at that.

 

From what I've gathered, the benefits are outweighed by the negatives for you?

[penisbreath]

Yeah, it's illegal to buy Suboxone, though it's freely available on the black market .. 

 

I bought Naltrexone here: http://www.inhousepharmacy-europe.com/

 

No, the negatives don't really outweigh the benefits .. I guess it's 50/50 .. I mean, I like the energy and whatnot, but I can't afford to be so irritable around my family.

 

 

[FeelsNumbMan]

Whoa, didn't know it was that expensive. I checked on AllDayChemist and it was a lot cheaper but then again, I do not know how reliable AllDayChemist is as I've seen some users from other forums saying that they misused their card.

 

That's unfortunate to hear, I guess. I was hoping it'd do more for you, but you even said the withdrawals gave you anhedonia, which is something I'm looking forward to helping.

 

I don't know what to really do anymore. Should I just proceed to try using these (I don't see why not asides from money), or should I just give up on shit and wait till there becomes more available options.

[penisbreath]

Well, at the doses you'd be taking (~4.5mg a day), it isn't *that* expensive. A pack should last you a few months ..

 

Are you currently seeing a doctor/psychiatrist? I guess I can't advise you directly, but one thing the last few months have taught me -- where I've spent endless time and money searching for a solution for akathisia -- is that it's pointless deliberating over and over. I'll often idealize a certain treatment, or hold certain expectations about it, or whatever .. and every single time, in the face of however much apathy or uncertainty about trying it, I always feel better at least having the knowledge of whether it was or wasn't useful. 

 

My main concern is whether or not kappa-antagonism would sensitize the receptor over time, so who knows what withdrawals you might potentially be dealing with following a decent trial. Maybe if Celebes sees this, he can weigh in.

 

However, the subjective effects, as I describe above, were really no different to like 2.5-5mg of Dexedrine, so trying it for a couple of days seems relatively harmless to me. 

 

 

Edited by lucky.pierre, 26 May 2014 - 09:13 AM.

[FeelsNumbMan]

I guess I can't advise you directly, but one thing the last few months have taught me -- where I've spent endless time and money searching for a solution for akathisia -- is that it's pointless deliberating over and over. I'll often idealize a certain treatment, or hold certain expectations about it, or whatever .. and every single time, in the face of however much apathy or uncertainty about trying it, I always feel better at least having the knowledge of whether it was or wasn't useful. 

 

No, I'm not seeing a doctor or a psychiatrist right now. Yeah, I guess it's not too bad but the thing with experimenting with these kind of stuff is that you have to pay full price. And what if it doesn't work upon you trying it out? Well then, your money kinda goes to waste other than the fact you tried it, which is unfortunate. And if it works? Woo! But yeah, you're right. I get that feeling too... I don't know why I'm just sitting around waiting and pondering when I could just be trying to experiment more with things and not have time pass by like it's nothing...

 

But the part I quoted is something I can definitely relate to. It makes me wonder why I'm even procrastinating. And I don't know how much "last few months" was like for you, but I do recall having an interest in ketamine for MONTHS, maybe 2 or 3, and finally got around to trying it. It takes some effort to go out there and actually put a purchase for something, even though it's really simple. I don't know, I guess you can call it apathy and uncertainty as well, afraid of the thing not working out. I mean, if I just had money to burn and spend I wouldn't mind just making a purchase here and there, but I don't. And while I do have money saved up, it's nothing too big and I'm not even working enough. I know I don't have the motivation to work more or to find another job... so if I were to spend more than what I made, that wouldn't be good. But it's a good thing I'm interested in nothing (but trying to get my life back) so I don't really spend money. Except for food.

 

I should probably stop pondering about it all and get around to making a purchase. Then again, I say that, and I end up procrastinating anyways. Sorry for getting a bit off-topic.

 

Do you live in the US by the way?

[penisbreath]

 

I guess I can't advise you directly, but one thing the last few months have taught me -- where I've spent endless time and money searching for a solution for akathisia -- is that it's pointless deliberating over and over. I'll often idealize a certain treatment, or hold certain expectations about it, or whatever .. and every single time, in the face of however much apathy or uncertainty about trying it, I always feel better at least having the knowledge of whether it was or wasn't useful. 

 

No, I'm not seeing a doctor or a psychiatrist right now. Yeah, I guess it's not too bad but the thing with experimenting with these kind of stuff is that you have to pay full price. And what if it doesn't work upon you trying it out? Well then, your money kinda goes to waste other than the fact you tried it, which is unfortunate. And if it works? Woo! But yeah, you're right. I get that feeling too... I don't know why I'm just sitting around waiting and pondering when I could just be trying to experiment more with things and not have time pass by like it's nothing...

 

But the part I quoted is something I can definitely relate to. It makes me wonder why I'm even procrastinating. And I don't know how much "last few months" was like for you, but I do recall having an interest in ketamine for MONTHS, maybe 2 or 3, and finally got around to trying it. It takes some effort to go out there and actually put a purchase for something, even though it's really simple. I don't know, I guess you can call it apathy and uncertainty as well, afraid of the thing not working out. I mean, if I just had money to burn and spend I wouldn't mind just making a purchase here and there, but I don't. And while I do have money saved up, it's nothing too big and I'm not even working enough. I know I don't have the motivation to work more or to find another job... so if I were to spend more than what I made, that wouldn't be good. But it's a good thing I'm interested in nothing (but trying to get my life back) so I don't really spend money. Except for food.

 

I should probably stop pondering about it all and get around to making a purchase. Then again, I say that, and I end up procrastinating anyways. Sorry for getting a bit off-topic.

 

Do you live in the US by the way?

 

 

Yeah, I guess I was just kind of stuck in a semi-comfortable state of suicidal apathy, but when that was threatened -- by the akathisia -- it forced me to start looking for solutions. But that's my point, re: the ketamine .. you can waste months being interested in the drug, and then try it for a day or two, or a week, and find out it wasn't gonna work anyway. The effort expended obsessing:the final result just isn't worth it sometimes.

 

Money is a limiting factor obviously, but I live at home right now. I don't have any income, but anything I earn from odd jobs or whatever goes towards trying stuff. 

 

Yeah, fear of it not working is also a bit demotivator, but again, no matter how many times I go through the same process of trying to overcome fear/apathy/uncertainty, it's *always* a bigger relief having concrete information. Kinda like the old saying about living with the regret of never asking a girl out .. versus asking and knowing, even if you're rejected.

 

The problem is when you're trapped in states like ours, I'm guessing (at least in my case) that a lot of your decision-making skills etc. also disappear. So maybe make a list of the things you want to try. Rank them in terms of priority. Work out the steps you need to get them. Breaking it down helps as well. 

 

No, I'm in Australia. 

[FeelsNumbMan]

Yeah, I think my progress would have gone up much more if I really tried. My decision-making skill is pretty shit, but I'd say that goes along with my whole brain feeling slow and sluggish, and most of the time, stupid.

 

I don't want to go too detailed with my life story, I'll probably include that in a PM if you're willing to talk.

 

Australia is pretty hard when it comes to getting stuff, isn't it? Anyways, I hope Celebes chime in himself but it seems like from your own personal experiences, it might not work out well for you. I'd love to be on the optimistic side for things but a lot of things haven't worked out for me so I find little hope in trying. But what else can I do? Go off a cliff? Live my life like this living hell?

 

I'd like to try out SJW, but then again, it might take a while and having a suppressed appetite is not good for me. Neither are drug interactions. And a suppressed libido, but that doesn't matter to someone who has a nonexistent one.

 

Have you tried LDN alone?

Edited by FeelsNumbMan, 26 May 2014 - 11:02 AM.

[datrat]

Whoa, didn't know it was that expensive. I checked on AllDayChemist and it was a lot cheaper but then again, I do not know how reliable AllDayChemist is as I've seen some users from other forums saying that they misused their card.

 

That's unfortunate to hear, I guess. I was hoping it'd do more for you, but you even said the withdrawals gave you anhedonia, which is something I'm looking forward to helping.

 

I don't know what to really do anymore. Should I just proceed to try using these (I don't see why not asides from money), or should I just give up on shit and wait till there becomes more available options.

 

I think AllDayChemist got hacked, they didn't misuse the cards. My own was captured in that hacking, but I've used them for years without a problem and have used them since the hacking and they have upgraded their security system.

[penisbreath]

Yeah, I think my progress would have gone up much more if I really tried. My decision-making skill is pretty shit, but I'd say that goes along with my whole brain feeling slow and sluggish, and most of the time, stupid.

 

I don't want to go too detailed with my life story, I'll probably include that in a PM if you're willing to talk.

 

Australia is pretty hard when it comes to getting stuff, isn't it? Anyways, I hope Celebes chime in himself but it seems like from your own personal experiences, it might not work out well for you. I'd love to be on the optimistic side for things but a lot of things haven't worked out for me so I find little hope in trying. But what else can I do? Go off a cliff? Live my life like this living hell?

 

I'd like to try out SJW, but then again, it might take a while and having a suppressed appetite is not good for me. Neither are drug interactions. And a suppressed libido, but that doesn't matter to someone who has a nonexistent one.

 

Have you tried LDN alone?

 

You can PM me, sure, though in all honesty I'm pretty bad at keeping up with long correspondences. But if it would help you to share with someone, you're welcome to.

 

Yeah, Australia is tough, but you can work around it. They barely monitor domestic mail. I found a local seller for the buprenorphine. 

 

It's really hard to judge with the kappa-antagonism, given my circumstances, so I was trying to issue a caveat. I mean, kappa-agonism is mood-stabilizing, and the akathisia/restlessness/agitation I experience is probably closer to 'mania' than not. So it doesn't surprise me it didn't particularly help, aside from easing the restlessness, which dopaminergics have done. Coffee can sometimes be fantastic, but I can't even tolerate a single cup at the moment. Like I say, I look forward to trying the combo again when my anxiety is better. 

 

I know I go on about it a lot, but have you tried resistant starch? Before it began to make me feel weird, it was very good at eliminating learned helplessness and building a better behaviour set. 

 

I haven't tried LDN alone yet, no. My priority right now is the akathisia. I just started Guanfacine for that.

[FeelsNumbMan]

Heh, I just didn't want to derail this thread with too much of how I'm feeling. Oh, right. Customs seem like a bitch over in Australia.

 

Well then, it's unfortunate but I guess at least now you know you tried. The thing about having a list of things you want to try is a good idea, in fact, I did that and I already placed an order for SJW. I also need to place an order for some other stuff. I really do hate things that make you feel totally out of it, though. For days when I have to work or interact with others, it really really makes me feel like shit. Like I don't even want to deal with anything. I could stand the emptiness when I'm alone and all but other than that, it's too much to deal with. So for trialing things out, it's a pain.

 

No, I have not tried resistant starch. My diet is pretty poor and I probably don't have the motivation to actually go around to doing it. That being said, I exercise regularly and last week was more frequent than ever but I still don't feel much relief from anhedonia...

 

By any chance do you know what kind of problems Celebes was using it for?