54 replies to this topic

[Raptor87]

Iv'e been sitting by the computer for too long. Also my diet isnt the best one so I gained a lot of fat. I am gonna start a slow exercise regime so I wont get injured but I feel that I need to lose this extra fat kinda fast. 

 

I don't want to be constantly hungry and I don't want to go on a LCHF/Atkins diet.

 

Which super diet do you recommend? Do you have any meal plans etc? 

[misterE]

The best approach is with a low calorie-dense diet. And to maximize the results, try some fasting and exercise.

 

 

Foods lowest in calorie-density:

Vegetables

Fruits

Whole-grains

Beans

 

Foods highest in calorie-density:

Dried-fruit

Flour

Simple-sugars

Meats

Eggs

Dairy

Nuts and seeds

Liquid-calories

Oil

 

 

[misterE]

I just did some calcumalations on that cron-o-meter thingy and came up with this:

 

Vegetables     : 155 calories per pound.

Fruits              : 235

Whole-Grains : 560

Beans             : 650

Eggs               : 700

Meat               : 860

Dried-fruit         1250

Flour               : 1650

Sugar              : 1730

Dairy               : 1830

Nuts                : 2610

Oil/Fat             : 3910

 

 

 

The calorie-density of the diet will determine your weight.

 

So if you want to lose weight effortlessly and practice CR without ever feeling hungry or eating less portion sizes, you want to eat foods lower in calorie-density, because it's very hard to overeat on those foods. If you were to eat 3 pounds of vegetables you would take in about 450 calories, but if you were to eat 3 pounds of meat, you would take in 2600 calories. Same amount of food, the only difference is that the meat is more dense in calories, than the veggies. This chart can also be used to gain weight if need be.

Edited by misterE, 23 May 2014 - 08:23 PM.

[lemonhead]

I'd suggest the basic Zone diet. I aim for it, but I wind up too high on my fat percentage (mostly from nuts). My overall caloric intake is good, though. I use cronometer and weigh everything. I also prepare most of what I eat myself (i.e., I don't eat out much).

[joelcairo]

What's wrong with Atkins? It's healthy. You don't have to be hungry all the time. Most importantly, it works.

 

[misterE]

What's wrong with Atkins? It's healthy. You don't have to be hungry all the time. Most importantly, it works.

 

 

 

 

Atkins makes you diabetic. And one of the main side effects of uncontrolled diabetes is weight-loss.

 

The underlying cause of diabetes is high levels of free-fatty-acids (FFAs) [1] caused by excessive lipolysis. These FFAs accumulate inside the blood-vessels and other organs and cause metabolic-dysfunction [2]. The very first study on the Atkins-diet showed that the people eating that kind of diet had a doubling of their FFAs [3]! Anyone familiar with diabetes-research would know that lowering FFAs improves glucose metabolism and abolishes diabetes. The main way to lower FFAs is with carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are also lower in calorie-density than are fats (4 calories vs. 9 calories).

 

 

 

[1] Proc Nutr Soc. 2003 Aug;62(3):753-60. Fatty acid metabolism in obesity and type 2 diabetes mellitus. Blaak EE.

 

[2] Int J Clin Pract Suppl. 2004 Oct;(143):9-21. Dysfunctional fat cells, lipotoxicity and type 2 diabetes. DeFronzo RA.

 

[3]  J Am  Diet Assoc. 1980 Sep;77(3):264-70. Effects of high-protein, low-carbohydrate dieting on plasma lipoproteins and body weight.

 Larosa JC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joelcairo]

Strangely I am not diabetic, yet I lost 25 pounds with Atkins in about 3-4 months.

[misterE]

Strangely I am not diabetic

 

Have you ever had a glucose tolerance test, to see how well your body metabolizes ingested glucose?

Edited by misterE, 24 May 2014 - 04:59 AM.

[MiddleAged49]

My experience:

 

Cut out all processed foods

Cut out sodas

Try cutting out bread, or at least cut down on it

Avoid excess carbohydrates

Use cooking oils like coconut oil, olive oil and avocado oil instead of the usual ones

Loads of veggies, beans etc.

 

The exercise you have mentioned will help this. Walking is a good way to lose body fat, I'm semi-injured so can't run so much at the moment so am walking at least 90 minutes a day in one session and then walking elsewhere on top of that.

Weight training, with dumbbells at home, or in the gym, will also burn fat. These days it's written in many places that jogging / medium intensity steady-state exercise doesn't help so much with weight loss, so look at walking, weight training and eventually higher intensity training like HIIT, but work up to that slowly.

 

All the above has helped me put on muscle and lower body fat over the last 18 months.

[bracconiere]

Just skip the 12 pack....

 

 

 

 

hmm not sure if that will work or not for the pic

Attached Files

•  mealplan.jpg   57.54KB   4 downloads
•  breakfast.jpg   28.49KB   0 downloads
•  mealnorm.jpg   37.71KB   0 downloads

[DorianGrey]

I went from BMI close to 25 down to 21 by not eating so much in the evening, especially not snacking significantly after 19:00. Less meat consumption and more salad/fish during lunch time. Strictly avoiding all added sugar (ketchup and sauces, many salad dressings. I just discovered as soon as a Greek yogurt is flavoured Greek yogurts the sugar content explodes, so always take a look on the label.

 

Definitely no pops (43g sugar in one can, that's close to the conservative 50g WHO recommendation for the entire day!). Less beer, no muffins or cake. Also watch fruit juices and definitely swap pops for water, tea or coffee. Anything vegetable or high protein is probably ok, high fibre as well. I would go mediterranean diet, a lot of Asian food is also not bad.

 

You need 1h of rigorous exercise just to burn a single Mars bar, so forget about exercise as a strategy, it's auxiliary to diet, not a substitute. This whole exercise craze is an invention of a certain industry rooted in the 80'ies. For weight loss it may help a bit, but think about it: sport leads to hunger, so you'll probably eat same or even more after you phase out the initial high motivation phase.

Edited by DorianGrey, 28 May 2014 - 04:43 AM.

[DorianGrey]

duplicate.

Edited by DorianGrey, 28 May 2014 - 04:37 AM.

[bracconiere]

 

You need 1h of rigorous exercise just to burn a Mars bar, so forget about that. This whole exercise craze is invention of a certain industry rooted in the 80'ies. For weight loss it may help, but it also creates hunger, so you'll probably eat same or even more after you leave the initial high motivation phase.

 

 

I agree with that, before I got into cron-o-meter and learned how to feed myself, I thought exercise was the cure all for weight loss, now it just seems like if you don't track your calories while you do it and take the hunger afterwards, you just eat more to compensate. 

 

As a side note to that, I went from 260 to 175 in a year and a half, using cron-o-meter, and something I had to get used to with the lighter weight. Contrary to what they say on TV, was having a feeling of less energy. I never did anything with it when I was 260 but I felt really energized. But that was ~5 years ago so I don't notice anymore.

 

i'll attach my experience just for the hell of it

Attached Files

•  story.jpg   56.4KB   8 downloads

Edited by bracconiere, 28 May 2014 - 04:51 AM.

[scottknl]

Most of the advice here is true, but I'd add that keeping protein low is important too.  People on higher protein diets are never skinny without excessive exercise. It's important to keep dairy products to a minimum also since they will definitely make you fat.  As Arnold once said "Milk is for babies!".

[misterE]

I'd add that keeping protein low is important too.  

 

I would agree with this too, because eating large amount of animal-protein and especially milk-protein activates mTOR, and activating mTOR inhibits fat-loss. Plus most animal-proteins are high in calories and premade-fat (which your body effortlessly deposits in the adipocytes).

 

I think to lose weight in a healthy way is one you need to reduce total calories intake and also keep dietary-fat and insulin levels low. Foods like vegetables, oats, barley, pasta, lentils and homemade vegetable-stews which are all very low insulinogenic-foods would be cover all bases.

 

It doesn't contain premade-fat (which is easily stored).

It doesn't activate mTOR like sugars, flours and animal-protein does.

It doesn't cause a spike in insulin.

And it is low in calorie-density.

 

Now if you need to gain weight or stimulate growth or repair... you do the opposite.

 

You increase your ingestion of premade-fat (saturated-fat preferably, due to its greater ability to be stored within the adipocytes and its ability to stimulate leptin better than unsaturated-fats).

You activate mTOR by eating more animal-protein like skim-milk, whey-isolate or egg-whites.

You purposely spike your insulin with highly insulinogenic-foods like flour, sugar, potatoes, bananas and beans.

And you increase your calorie-density and palatability by eating more sugar and fat.
 

[gt35r]

 

What's wrong with Atkins? It's healthy. You don't have to be hungry all the time. Most importantly, it works.

 

 

 

 

Atkins makes you diabetic. And one of the main side effects of uncontrolled diabetes is weight-loss.

 

The underlying cause of diabetes is high levels of free-fatty-acids (FFAs) [1] caused by excessive lipolysis. These FFAs accumulate inside the blood-vessels and other organs and cause metabolic-dysfunction [2]. The very first study on the Atkins-diet showed that the people eating that kind of diet had a doubling of their FFAs [3]! Anyone familiar with diabetes-research would know that lowering FFAs improves glucose metabolism and abolishes diabetes. The main way to lower FFAs is with carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are also lower in calorie-density than are fats (4 calories vs. 9 calories).

 

 

 

[1] Proc Nutr Soc. 2003 Aug;62(3):753-60. Fatty acid metabolism in obesity and type 2 diabetes mellitus. Blaak EE.

 

[2] Int J Clin Pract Suppl. 2004 Oct;(143):9-21. Dysfunctional fat cells, lipotoxicity and type 2 diabetes. DeFronzo RA.

 

[3]  J Am  Diet Assoc. 1980 Sep;77(3):264-70. Effects of high-protein, low-carbohydrate dieting on plasma lipoproteins and body weight.

 

 Larosa JC.

 

 

That is absolute non-sense; Atkin's diet, ketogenic diet, do not make you diabetic. 

 

"The underlying cause of diabetes is high levels of free-fatty-acids" 

 

No the issue with diabetes (1 or 2) is the inability to transport glucose into the cell at a sufficient rate.

 

You're links do not even attempt to support that Atkins diet causes diabetes. 

 

If anything, ketogenic diets tend to enhance glucose sensitivity. 

Edited by gt35r, 30 May 2014 - 09:53 PM.

[gt35r]

I just did some calcumalations on that cron-o-meter thingy and came up with this:

 

Vegetables     : 155 calories per pound.

Fruits              : 235

Whole-Grains : 560

Beans             : 650

Eggs               : 700

Meat               : 860

Dried-fruit         1250

Flour               : 1650

Sugar              : 1730

Dairy               : 1830

Nuts                : 2610

Oil/Fat             : 3910

 

 

 

The calorie-density of the diet will determine your weight.

 

So if you want to lose weight effortlessly and practice CR without ever feeling hungry or eating less portion sizes, you want to eat foods lower in calorie-density, because it's very hard to overeat on those foods. If you were to eat 3 pounds of vegetables you would take in about 450 calories, but if you were to eat 3 pounds of meat, you would take in 2600 calories. Same amount of food, the only difference is that the meat is more dense in calories, than the veggies. This chart can also be used to gain weight if need be.

 

Calorie density on its own its general a poor indicator of if something will keep you full. If you look at the list you will see oils are more calorically dense than than sugars but oils tend to create appetite satiety for much longer periods of time. 

[gt35r]

 

Strangely I am not diabetic

 

Have you ever had a glucose tolerance test, to see how well your body metabolizes ingested glucose?

 

 

I have lost weight on an Atkin's style diet, 15 lbs in 8-9 weeks. Yes I did have glucose tolerance test done, I also had a lipid profile done.

 

All results from my blood work more enhanced after the diet. 

[gt35r]

Sorry, this is my 4th post in a row but i wanted to make them separate as I feel they address different things.

 

In terms of weight loss, what you eat is the main thing. It is much easier to not eat 300calories than to work-off 300 calories.

 

Diet is your field artillery, it going to do 70 percent of the work for you.

 

 

[TheFountain]

Once you've built up your cardio output try sprinting once or twice a week for about 10-15 minutes a session. Sprint for about a 20 second burst, stop and do some brisk walking for a minute or two and then repeat it again. 

 

Weight train at least twice a weak. And eat a clean, mostly vegetable and organic meat diet. 

 

Drink Holy Basil Tea at night, before bed, to block cortisol production for 8 hours. 

Edited by TheFountain, 30 May 2014 - 10:33 PM.

[PWAIN]

fragment 176- 191

 

probably won't keep it off tho if you don't change your diet and lifestyle.

 

[misterE]

 

 

That is absolute non-sense; Atkin's diet, ketogenic diet, do not make you diabetic.

 

 

 

 

LOL. Then why do diabetics have increased levels of ketones? Why does uncontrolled diabetes lead to ketoacidosis?

Edited by misterE, 30 May 2014 - 11:32 PM.

[misterE]

 

 

 

Calorie density on its own its general a poor indicator of if something will keep you full. If you look at the list you will see oils are more calorically dense than than sugars but oils tend to create appetite satiety for much longer periods of time. 

 

 

That's not true, most studies show that carbohydrates are more satiating than fat, especially if its complex-carbohydrates.

[misterE]

 

 Yes I did have glucose tolerance test done. All results from my blood work more enhanced after the diet. 

 

 

I find that hard to believe, especially when you take into consideration how the Randle-cycle works: high-fat diets suspends glucose-oxidation and high-carbohydrate diets suspends fat-oxidation. Since you are training your body to burn FFAs as the main fuel source instead of glucose (something diabetics do), you are decreasing your ability to properly metabolize glucose and store it as glycogen. Diabetics have a hard time storing glucose as glycogen and their bodies are forced into burning FFAs. That is why diabetics have accumulation of FFAs in the muscles and organs; because their muscles and organs are burning those FFAs as fuel. If you were carbohydrate-sensitive you wouldn't have an accumulation of FFAs in peripheral-tissue, those fatty-acids would be locked away in the adipocytes and the muscles and organs would have an accumulation of glycogen not fat.
 

 

 

In terms of weight loss, what you eat is the main thing. It is much easier to not eat 300calories than to work-off 300 calories.

 

Diet is your field artillery, it going to do 70 percent of the work for you.

 

 

 

This is something I would agree with you on.

Edited by misterE, 30 May 2014 - 11:35 PM.

[misterE]

J Endocrinol Invest. 1996 Feb;19(2):99-105.

High blood ketone body concentration in type 2 non-insulin dependent diabetic patients.

Avogaro A, Crepaldi C, Miola M.

 

Abstract

 

To assess the metabolic disturbances, and, in particular, the occurrence of high blood ketone body concentration in Type 2 diabetic patients as compared to a matched normal population, a study was carried out in a group of 78 Type 2 diabetic outpatients and in 78 normal individuals. In all subjects we measured HbA1c, and fasting levels of glucose, FFA, lactate, pyruvate, glycerol, alanine, 3-hydroxybutyrate, acetoacetate, uric acid, total cholesterol, triglycerides, creatinine, growth hormone, cortisol, glucagon, free insulin, and C-peptide. As expected HbA1c, and plasma glucose were higher in Type 2 diabetics. This was associated with multiple metabolic disturbances as shown by higher circulating concentrations of FFA, glycerol and gluconeogenic precursors. Similarly, blood levels of ketones were increased. Plasma glucagon levels were higher in Type 2 diabetics. Blood ketone body levels were directly correlated with both plasma glucose and FFA concentrations. These observations clearly show that Type 2 diabetes is a pathologic condition characterised by multiple metabolic disturbances which are fully apparent in the basal state. Furthermore, we emphasise that Type 2 diabetic patients present a significant increase in their fasting levels of ketone bodies.

[gt35r]

 

 

 

That is absolute non-sense; Atkin's diet, ketogenic diet, do not make you diabetic.

 

 

 

 

LOL. Then why do diabetics have increased levels of ketones? Why does uncontrolled diabetes lead to ketoacidosis?

 

 

Diabetic (type 1) have high levels of ketones because the can not transport any glucose into the brain and the body desperately needs to make ketones from fats because FFA can not enter the brain. However you make a common mistake in assuming that ketosis in a healthy non diabetic is the same as ketosis or ketoacidosis in a diabetic. In diabetic the ketone concentration claims to very high concentration because they can not transport any glucose. 

 

Type 2 diabetic usually do not have problems with excess ketones or ketoacidosis unless their diabetes is very profound. 

 

You are trying to make everything into a simple argument. Diabetic produce ketones, therefore ketones are bad. Atkins diet produces ketones, there atkins diet is bad. It not how real things work. Also the paper you cited does not claim what you think it does. 

 

I would not recommend a leto diet for a Type 1 diabetic; I probably wouldn't recommend it for a type 2 diabetic either. For most healthy individuals, ketogenic diets do not seem the deleterious effects of ketosis that you see in diabetics. I do not think I have ever seen a healthy person produce ketones anywhere near diabetic levels or even go into ketoacidosis.

 

In healthy, non-diabetic, people gluconeogensis produces enough glucose that prevents the runaway ketone production that type 1 diabetic experience. 

 

 

 

 

Calorie density on its own its general a poor indicator of if something will keep you full. If you look at the list you will see oils are more calorically dense than than sugars but oils tend to create appetite satiety for much longer periods of time. 

 

 

That's not true, most studies show that carbohydrates are more satiating than fat, especially if its complex-carbohydrates.

 

Did you notice I mentioned sugars specifically?

 

I am making a case for why calories / Kg is not a good indicator on its own.

[misterE]

 

 

Diabetic (type 1) have high levels of ketones because the can not transport any glucose into the brain and the body desperately needs to make ketones from fats because FFA can not enter the brain.

 

 

Agreed. But the body also undergoes gluconeogenesis in order to make glucose for the brain. Diabetics have increased gluconeogenesis occurring, this causes muscle wasting as the body converts its protein stores into glucose for the brain. GH, glucagon, cortisol, adrenaline and other glucocorticoids all increase blood-sugar in order to feed the brain.

 

Eating starchy and sugary foods and spiking your insulin, shuts off gluconeogenesis and lowers these catabolic stress-hormones that are increasing your blood-sugar and allows for anabolic hormones (like testosterone and IGF-1) to increase. Why do you think diabetics have reduced androgens and IGF-1?

Edited by misterE, 31 May 2014 - 01:18 AM.

[misterE]

 

 

 

Did you notice I mentioned sugars specifically?

 

I am making a case for why calories is not a good indicator on its own.

 

 

 

Yes, sugars aren't as satiating as starch... but sugar is more satiating than oil because sugar stimulates insulin and leptin which are two powerful satiety hormones, while fat and oil do not. Also sugar is a superior fuel source for the body than oil, but starch is the correct fuel for the human body. The fact that we have a pancreas, the fact that we store glycogen, the fact that every cell of the body uses glucose and the fact that the main digestive-enzyme in the body; amylase, which converts starch into simple-sugar (glucose), tells us clearly that starchy foods (potatoes, beans, flour-products and grains) are the correct fuel for the human body.

 

Even if you restrict all forms of carbohydrates, you blood-sugar will still continue to rise, due to unrestrained gluconeogenesis.
 

Edited by misterE, 31 May 2014 - 01:22 AM.

[PWAIN]

Why don't you guys spin off a separate thread about diabetes causes and whether Atkins plays any role. Seems irrelevant to the ops question since he stated that he doesn't want to do Atkins.

[gt35r]

Insulin is not a satiating hormone; infact insulin generally inhibits leptin's ability to produce satiety in the hypothalamus.

 

Type 1 diabetics have reduced IGF-1 because they can't make Insulin to stimulate the liver to make any of he IGF. 

 

Notice I am not argue that eating carbohydrates is fine, I am arguing with the fact that you said Atkins makes you diabetic. Sure you have elevated levels of ketones just like a diabetic but it doesn't MAKE you diabetic. You have to see you misleading that statement is to some people