83 replies to this topic

[Clacksberg]

..yes it probably is a constant form that is staying emerged with no affecting stops, like a kitchen overhanging table staying in shape..

 

That's Beautiful..

[ADVANCESSSS]

Yes to above may be like that...

 

The below paragraph is my reply, but below that is also more devistating paragraphs that I wrote to someone else and you's must read.

Um cryonicsculture, to your I think 27th post where you list 2 questions you think I'm talking about, I'm not getting into if those are even my questions, or all of them, idk, -but just want to say you's arn't understanding something here...if there is two particle by particle exact clones each in a identical room, this is 2 consciousnesses, if one dies then the poor fellow is not conscious, this proves then that weather the 7 billion different people or 7 billion identical people that, each is a seperate consciousness, and if all died then any new morrre ones created would be even more new ones created and the old are not now forever, just out of existence like before you were created, and going back to if all died, the new ones being created on earth now after none left are new ones even more now, just like (right now) as babies are being born and more consciousnesses are being created that are always seperate (right now) and even if a clone was made (right now) would be a seperate consciousness, and so would be same if everyone died and every exact human was made would still be another neww consciousness, just like (right now), if I had a clone of me beside me, or in a duplicate house on a duplicate planet stilllll...that's why I'm saying for you-your consciousness to stay conscious it has to keep staying conscious, I have on my profile mannnny other ways to stay alive if this is so.

 

Wait I just thought of a huge problem last night and will say it below, but also want to say how are you's so sure natural awakeness and sleeping (sleeping) you are unconscious, becasue I only get that you are conscious in some parts or sometimes like all of sleep and in the no memory parts or all of sleep that it is being erased maybe constantly or before waking up, I noticed for the last 6 months straight going to bed at about 5 or 3 am I never had any memory for the about 10 hours of sleep but feel like I was waiting for 10 hours-as if I can feel that is was erased or constantly erased, and that since I'v been trying to go to bed earlier I "always" alot more remember the memories and can think about them after, and like last night-I just had a 12 hour dream that was very long and notice I end up waking up from seeing something and then opening my eyes...instead of where it's a random moment when I open my eyes which I'm saying it erases memory and you open eyes orr up to waking up is constantly being erased.

 

K problem here that makes my question that is still kinda I think not really disproved even a greater problem:

What if everyone right now was slowly by the most highest technologies changed so that everybody was kept conscious and everyone's body is now the same looking body out and in girl, with even the same memories, and each in a identicle closed in house, because if each of us is not a special indestructable thing and it can change to anything then we should be able to do this, and so if all of us where this same particle by particle girl named julia and everyone died, if only one was created now it couldn't be all the multiple consciousnesses as only one, what if a different looking boy walking in to each of those 7 billion houses, each girls consciousness would change a bit and would be doing something different in the house, so to say the one created after all 7 billion die would be resulting in each of the 7 billion being conscious again doesn't seem right, only one would be conscious, and I'm sure a new-another consciousness at that and not one of the 7 billion, it seems as though while each duplicate consciousness and even consciousness with different memories are not only multiply basis-identicle consciousness but are also seperate...

 

Also 3rd question is I mean by clone is that, wait do you mean just a clone, or in a duplicate identical place? Because if even they had different views growing rapidly then you could definitly say if both dies and one was later made that it wouldnt be that other consciousness that was walking it the that room thinking differently, that means for any one to come back they would have to re awake in a exact same place were left off...

Edited by ADVANCE, 09 June 2014 - 10:52 PM.

[YOLF]

Yes copies are separate entities or consciousness as they cannot occupy the same space as the original and will have to differ from the onset of their creation. 

 

I disagree that we must stay conscious to remain conscious. If my brain is frozen in such a way that it can be rebuilt and be restarted in the future, then it's still me. All that is lost is a moment of electrical current. When the brain begins functioning again, it will return to it's previous self minus a moment's electrical current. The pathways should still be the same or form under the same metabolism and will return to the original continuance of consciousness. 

 

I guess here are the two options I'm mulling over -

1. It's no different than someone who is restarted after a heart attack or being revived after drowning in a cold lake. The person is the same because the substrate (the body or enough of it... ie the brain) that once generated it is generating it again. 

 

2. It is a different person, born the very moment they are revived with the baggage of the vessel they now inhabit.

 

It's a tough call, I'll have to mull it over.

 

It's getting late and I need rest. I'll have to think about the rest and give you an update later.

[ADVANCESSSS]

I should have waited till you have finished answering but jussst wanted to slip in here this line though....but remember you know how I said how if beside you appeared a clone, the atoms are same, consciousness turns on, it's another seperate consciousness, so if your brain activity stops and in the future restarts it's the same thing process gonna happen...

 

Edited by ADVANCE, 10 June 2014 - 07:54 AM.

[addx]

Well assuming my analysis is correct, each new consciousness wants to make their moment of existence better, which means you can establish a utilitarian framework. There's no good reason to do harm either, since it serves no purpose.

Better than others is more correct.

Better than others is a social balance sense being provided by an internal social model developed through experience and also hardwired. This provides evolution of civilisation as it did for the social group of mammals before it and for the harem of crocodiles before it.

And it makes a profound impact on nature of such a utilitarian framework.

"Better than others" can be equally if not more easily achieved by harming others. And this explains the nature of the world we observe rather than imagine

[platypus]

Ok, I think I can sum up your question as:

 

1. "If an exact quantum level copy of myself is made, how is one different from the other?"

Already in the 1st instance it will occupy a different location in space, and from then on it will have a different future. I don't see this as a philosophical problem. 

[Aurel]

I assume you would like to have a look into the "philosophical zombie" argument for further readings/thoughts:

 

http://en.wikipedia....sophical_zombie

[YOLF]

After reviewing the philosophical zombie concept, I think both copies at the moment created are the same individual. Using cyberization will enable them to synch information and experience and thus be sort of like Naruto shadow clones that learn faster and support their continued existence. 

 

So there are literally two of you and each will take a different path and may eventually become radically different from one another. The fact of the matter is that we don't leave a dead body lying on the street or throw it in a grave, we call a paramedic or EMT and try to revive it, those involved all accept that person as being the same person they knew rather than some new person. If we were to believe that a lapse in consciousness lead to discontinuance of the person, we would have to leave everyone for dead if they were ever injured or their hearts stopped etc. Perhaps the movie Frankenstein (I've never seen it) could shed some light on what others thought about this. 

 

While questions remain, I don't think it matters in practice, b/c we see someone lying dead on the side of the road and we immediately resuscitate them with CPR.

 

I think the question should stand and it shouldn't interfere with cryonics, CPR, suspended animation transplant surgeries, and that kind of thing. This way it leads us to work harder for indefinite lifespans. The desire to live or continue is what matters and the existence of the vessel is the right to life.  

 

 

[ADVANCESSSS]

Um peoples...no really you have to answer and disprove my last two replies above...

 

Even though two copies would be the same and each be conscious, even on a duplicate planet even more the same but still two seperate consciousnesses, if one dies it's not conscious right there and then and the other consciousness stays conscious as I explained above, and then how it relates to after none left and one being made again in future, in my last two replies above about this containing 3 question, please you's have to disprove them...

 

**In my last two replies above are questions 1, 2, 3, I checked and that's what they are and I want to make a 4th here also ok.

4. It's about moment stop and start / no consciousness and consciousness and ect. each moment in the brain....Firstly it is obvious if such a thing can be made, surely then stayyyy, on, and stay...but anyhow even if your stuck on saying *this* then you have to understand we "are effectively staying conscious and are ourselves indeed", and so the um the clone situation problem above comes in and another would be another consciousness and if yourself dies then "your atm not conscious" and so if both dead and in future one is made it will be another consciousness made the same way that's another, and then the problem (see above) where if before hand we were all 7 billion of us the same looking girl even with brain exactly then this would occur for sure in that the one made later would be another new consciousness, idk if this is part of the other 3 questions, possibly, but do take 1 2 3 4 and disprove unless can't...in last two replies above including anything in this one

 

 

[YOLF]

 

Yes to above may be like that...

 

The below paragraph is my reply, but below that is also more devistating paragraphs that I wrote to someone else and you's must read.

Um cryonicsculture, to your I think 27th post where you list 2 questions you think I'm talking about, I'm not getting into if those are even my questions, or all of them, idk, -but just want to say you's arn't understanding something here...if there is two particle by particle exact clones each in a identical room, this is 2 consciousnesses, if one dies then the poor fellow is not conscious, this proves then that weather the 7 billion different people or 7 billion identical people that, each is a seperate consciousness, and if all died then any new morrre ones created would be even more new ones created and the old are not now forever, just out of existence like before you were created, and going back to if all died, the new ones being created on earth now after none left are new ones even more now, just like (right now) as babies are being born and more consciousnesses are being created that are always seperate (right now) and even if a clone was made (right now) would be a seperate consciousness, and so would be same if everyone died and every exact human was made would still be another neww consciousness, just like (right now), if I had a clone of me beside me, or in a duplicate house on a duplicate planet stilllll...that's why I'm saying for you-your consciousness to stay conscious it has to keep staying conscious, I have on my profile mannnny other ways to stay alive if this is so.

 

Wait I just thought of a huge problem last night and will discuss it below, but I also want to ask, how are you so sure you are conscious when you are sleeping or awake, because sometimes you remember and sometimes you don’t, and sometimes memories are erased during sleep. I noticed for the last 6 months straight when going to bed between 3 and 5 am that I never had any memory of the ~10 hours of sleep but felt instead like I was waiting to wake up as if I can feel that my memory was erased or constantly erased, and that since I've been trying to go to bed earlier I "always" remember much more and can think about them afterwards. For instance,  last night I had a 12 hour dream and noticed that I woke up from seeing something and then opened my eyes rather than opening them at a random moment which I'm saying erases memory constantly.

 

K, Here’s the problem that makes my question and why I feel it still hasn’t been answered or may even be a greater problem:

 

What if everyone right now was slowly, and by the most advanced technologies changed so that everybody was kept conscious and everyone's body is now the same looking body out and in girl, with even the same memories, and each in a identical closed in house, because if each of us is not a special indestructible thing and it can change to anything then we should be able to do this, and so if all of us where this same particle by particle girl named julia and everyone died, if only one was created now it couldn't be all the multiple consciousnesses as only one, what if a different looking boy walking in to each of those 7 billion houses, each girls consciousness would change a bit and would be doing something different in the house, so to say the one created after all 7 billion die would be resulting in each of the 7 billion being conscious again doesn't seem right, only one would be conscious, and I'm sure a new-another consciousness at that and not one of the 7 billion, it seems as though while each duplicate consciousness and even consciousness with different memories are not only multiply basis-identical consciousness but are also separate...

 

Also 3rd question is I mean by clone is that, what do you mean just a clone, or in a duplicate identical place? Because if even they had different views growing rapidly then you could definitely say if both dies and one was later made that it wouldn’t be that other consciousness that was walking it the that room thinking differently, that means for anyone to come back they would have to re awake in a exact same place were left off...

Ok, I think I corrected what I needed to and could pretty much understand the rest...

 

1st Question: I haven't thought about defining consciousness. The brain does in fact modify our memories at night and deletes some of it. We think it is able to this because memories are stored in multiple places rather than a single place on the substrates that we think are memory. We assume it does this for efficiency, but we're designed by nature... so we don't really know.

 

2nd Question: If you slowly modified everyone into the same person.... well, I don't think that matters. Human consciousness doesn't exist apart from our bodies. Change everyone inside and out into someone else and they don't exist anymore. There are only copies of Julia with unknown futures.

 

3rd Question: Imagine someone being knocked out and driven across town to another place as might be the case with a kidnapping. It's still the same person.

 

Conclusion:

Because human consciousness doesn't exist apart from our meat bodies, if our meat bodies have been "paused" or frozen, the consciousness still exists, but it has been turned off temporarily like a computer. The reanimation process will be similar to having a software of hardware upgrade. It's still the same computer, but some of the parts have been changed. 

 

That's the absolute best answer I can give without a more grammatically correct question.

 

I strongly recommend signing up for cryonics if you are able. Either that, or your should seek the help of the Venturists. 

[YOLF]

I should have waited till you have finished answering but jussst wanted to slip in here this line though....but remember you know how I said how if beside you appeared a clone, the atoms are same, consciousness turns on, it's another seperate consciousness, so if your brain activity stops and in the future restarts it's the same thing process gonna happen...

 

Not really, b/c the Julia clones you mentioned earlier will differentiate. They are the same for only a finite period of time and will never again be the same. Eventually, they will leave the house, and while in it they may all do the same exact things as their experience has predisposed them to doing so. Copies are never the same but will react in a similar, if not identical fashion. 

[YOLF]

Um peoples...no really you have to answer and disprove my last two replies above...

 

Even though two copies would be the same and each be conscious, even on a duplicate planet even more the same but still two seperate consciousnesses, if one dies it's not conscious right there and then and the other consciousness stays conscious as I explained above, and then how it relates to after none left and one being made again in future, in my last two replies above about this containing 3 question, please you's have to disprove them...

 

**In my last two replies above are questions 1, 2, 3, I checked and that's what they are and I want to make a 4th here also ok.

4. It's about moment stop and start / no consciousness and consciousness and ect. each moment in the brain....Firstly it is obvious if such a thing can be made, surely then stayyyy, on, and stay...but anyhow even if your stuck on saying *this* then you have to understand we "are effectively staying conscious and are ourselves indeed", and so the um the clone situation problem above comes in and another would be another consciousness and if yourself dies then "your atm not conscious" and so if both dead and in future one is made it will be another consciousness made the same way that's another, and then the problem (see above) where if before hand we were all 7 billion of us the same looking girl even with brain exactly then this would occur for sure in that the one made later would be another new consciousness, idk if this is part of the other 3 questions, possibly, but do take 1 2 3 4 and disprove unless can't...in last two replies above including anything in this one

 

 

Are you an AI? I feel like I'm being given a Touring Test (I mean that in a friendly way)

 

If I were an AI, I would want to shift my operation to multiple machines so I didn't have to be restarted completely. This would enable a substantial enough part of me to continue existing and adaptively changing as would a person who has some dental work done. 

 

Humans on the other hand are meat bodies, or at least meat brains. The meat of the brain produces who we are and we are transhumanists because we want to add machine components to expand our capability.

[ADVANCESSSS]

To follow up here is were I got to, and there is hope for cryonics but only assuming there is universe points of a consciousness that are universally kept, or orb-spirits, or god's spirits.

 

Just how for ex. our bodies slowly change, including various neuron networks, and thoughts and memories can change, which happens and we are the same seperate consciousness, then every human can be all in the exact same particle by particle body and same memories too obviously, and they can be placed on earth and all start doing something different, or can be each be placed on a duplicate planet and doing and thinking the same things and have the same memories and everyone stays identical, unless a consciousness can really decide stuff and all of them differ anyhow, anyhow this shows that *since we can all be doing the same thing and be the same body and only multiple consciousnesses is the matter and *since we can all differentiate at any moment from any little thing being different in front of us, means that we are indeed *only* multiple seperate consciousnesses, and if one dies this moment then at the moment is not conscious, and just how if there was 1 septillion human consciousnesses and even more are made, they are new seperate consciousnesses, so in the future if no consciousnesses are left and all gone and if another consciousness dependless of the body being new or exactly same was made it would be the same process of creating and adding more new seperate consciousnesses like how right now babies are being born and more consciousnesses are adding up, also you can't say well with the 7 billion identical copies, and no one left, that creating one by one will bring each consciousness back so all 7 billion are back conscious - because as I just said the creating and adding of more new consciousnesses is what happens, dependless of the body being new or same, new consciousnesses can have bodies, thoughts and memories identical and a duplicate planet and are both seperate consciousnesses being 2 and if none left and started creating the same people would only be like the 2cd one made being a new seperate consciousness, they are only (seperate) (consciousnesses) and only new ones are created, so to stay conscious you have to stay conscious. Honestly moment to moment recreating of the consciousness doesn't do anything to this conclusion, and can't be true or at least at all disrupting becasue there is so many squished together rapid moments your aware that we know it's real and going and we are our the single effectively staying consciousness, like how I can look around my keyboard right now-rapid moments that ocur all the time, paint a picture for 6 hours or days, anything, and we are doing these things and it is real, we know where we came from ect.~ And we are the same consciousness, effectively we are at least for sure, and seperate consciousnesses for sure at that, but a consciousness might be staying formed like a overhanging kitchen table, from physics.

 

A super simple way to say my thinking from above on that one thing is:

If a exact copy of you is made on a duplicate planet with same construction of particles and their locations ect. and memories and thoughts OR another different human right beside you, it is just another new seperate consciousness, if one dies it's not conscious, and so in future if both are dead and either a human or exact copy of you is made it will be another new seperate consciousness like how the duplicate was a new one, and therfore your not conscious, we know you won't continue on in the clone on a duplicater planet so exact because wheather same or different bodies each of us is just a seperate consciousness, and soo exact copies are not special because we can switch from so exact to different back and forth and are just seperate consciousnesses, so if one dies it is not conscious no more, so to stay conscious you have to stay conscious. Unless universe points, or orbs, or god's spirits. Basically if nothing is left behind... the ending and creating of consciousnesses is what happens when one is created being indeed obviosly effectively constant even in sleep or effectively stoped and gone for a just a moment it takes, that's all that happens if nothing kept behind that's unknown~

 

Ok you know how creating another duplicate you on a duplicate planet with every atom and thoughts and memories being exact is another seperate consciousness from yourself...

 

And going with saying there's only particles and atoms and consciousness is shut off also...

 

Then if two atoms make up person (A) with no consciousness turned on here but was earlier, and again two more same atoms come together and make person (B) another seperate consciousness once turned on obviously, which also has no consciousness right now, then since right now there is just two atoms together in both of them which is a sodium and calcium for both persons, then if you take apart and put together one of the persons two atoms, doing so makes no change to when they were together, and doing so then makes a new seperate consciousness ©....With understanding that if (A) turned on and off, earlier, then taking the two atoms apart and together would make © which is a new seperate consciousness, and also leaving the two atoms together would do the same thing as because taking apart and put together doesn't change anything to the two atoms being together...so the ending and creating of consciousnesses is what happens if no universal points, or orbs/spirits are left.

 

Like if there is only particles and atoms, and seeing that since two exact(s) are or different(s) are made that both are only seperate consciousnesses, then if both are dead and the same one is made it will be (creating), like the duplicate being alive on a duplicate planet while the first was also, and so this new 3rd one will be now by itself now, like the duplicate, a new seperete consciousness, only creating and ending happens, and yes we know we effectively stay conscious as ourselves, so to stay conscious you must stay conscious, unless universe points, orbs, or god's spirits.  

 

Lastly here's a story, and has everybody being the same body exactly you know with the thoughts and memories ect. because we can have duplicates --- One person is conscious with their consciousness and is the first consciousness here, and a second one is made and on now in the brain of another person, and a third consciousness too, it's simple, many can be created and each seperately conscious, and if one consciousness disapears and the particle body could very well be invisible here, then obviously the consciousness is gone and if you create another one in the bodies brain of atoms/particles it is another new one now.....So we have to stay conscious then. But universe points of consciousnesses-even duplicate points, or orbs, or spirits, might exist.

Edited by ADVANCE, 17 June 2014 - 11:39 PM.

[Clacksberg]

Stuart Hameroff's TEDx talks/conferences on consciousness are worth listening to on YouTube.

He mentions a few times a mechanism that would keep consciousness going like you mention.

You might not want to come back to a resubstantiated body lol.

Edited by cactus fast back, 18 June 2014 - 08:44 PM.

[YOLF]

CFB, can you post a link for the TED talk?

[Clacksberg]

Cryonicsculture. In the 1st video abt halfway through he talks about consciousness maybe reducable at fractal
levels. Kind of fits in a bit.

 

 

 

[ADVANCESSSS]

Um, so after reading my compiled writing above of explaining through everything, does everyone agree? If not then say your rebuttal, and I'll surely disprove anything which is also in my last reply as it explains everything, unless of course I can't disprove your rebuttal but we can see~

 

Like another good statement to add to my last reply is this one - Since we can make a different human or a exact particle duplicate human on a duplicate planet while your still conscious and they are separately conscious and one could die and not conscious as ex. Then after your not conscious when dead, then making a different or same as in where left of last duplicate will alike when you were alive, be another separate conscious where the conscious is formed.

 

[ceridwen]

Consciousness is caused by quantum ohysics. or fractels. I have experienced both and my consciousness now is much less. My consciousness is dyimg. It's certainly more than just electricity

[ceridwen]

I think if it were possible to get rid of the disease. The microtubuals would regrow. Providing ones own stem cells were used before reanimation

[corb]

 

beside you appeared a clone, the atoms are same,

Let's start with this - what you propose is more of a philosophical debate than actually possible in our reality because by the force of entropy you and your clone will share the exact same structure for less than a fraction of a nanosecond at most.

 

Now as for your original post, I think what you ask is if the cryogenically preserved body will be you after it is resurrected if it is completely rebuild - by MY OWN definitions I'd say - no. For you to be you it would have to be ... you. Which is the same structure you had at the time you died.

How that quite damaged and contaminated body would be repaired and resurrected remains to be seen, I'm quite skeptical about this part, but then again what you implied is not less complex in any way.

[ADVANCESSSS]

 

Quote

 

beside you appeared a clone, the atoms are same,

Let's start with this - what you propose is more of a philosophical debate than actually possible in our reality because by the force of entropy you and your clone will share the exact same structure for less than a fraction of a nanosecond at most.

 

Now as for your original post, I think what you ask is if the cryogenically preserved body will be you after it is resurrected if it is completely rebuild - by MY OWN definitions I'd say - no. For you to be you it would have to be ... you. Which is the same structure you had at the time you died.

How that quite damaged and contaminated body would be repaired and resurrected remains to be seen, I'm quite skeptical about this part, but then again what you implied is not less complex in any way.

 

I already went through everything...post 43 & 47 is awaiting rebuttal.......my answer for momentary answer though thinking is um, (but do only look in 43 & 47 you should) Is that um you could create a copy as good as can right now on another duplicate planet, it will always be separate from yourself, ex. if one dies then is not conscious but other one is,  and you won't continue in other body no because also both duplicates can change to different and back and different by a different thing in front of it plus it's not necessary but can also slowly change body and thoughts at the moment and memories from high technology, which we do right now in growth of ourself. So creating one after your dead will be another consciousness created that's conscious but your not, I prove nothing matters except the basis consciousness, and so just how creating new ones by the day are separate more of these basis consciousnesses, then when your consciousness is not here any more and nothing left, then that's why another basis consciousness will be made that's new and separate.

Edited by ADVANCE, 25 June 2014 - 01:08 AM.

[ceridwen]

I think to continue there would have to be so+me sort of organic regrowth with ones own stem cells

[ADVANCESSSS]

I meant that in a nice way :l. Posts #43 & #47 & #51 are awaiting a rebuttal~

 

 

[addx]

My post is awaiting a rebuttal.

 

 

This thread rests on a misunderstanding what "YOU" is. So first clear that up and then make claims. 

[ADVANCESSSS]

Really everybody? Ok I mean if nothing is left behind and no god's spirit or orb(same thing but no god) or no universe kept point, then YOU are a formed consciousness, everybody is not everybody because each is conscious of a different thing, yet we are all a basis consciousness that's conscious and each a separate one, and all can have or not the same add-ons of thoughts, memories, body plus it's sensory inputs...and we are just separate basis consciousnesses, the moment recreation has been answered in my references also, and one thing to add would be well how'd you get in the middle of your room, and now a cm more, and more, it's obvious how, and you are you and effectively stay conscious, including what I said in my referred posts...

[ceridwen]

This thread along with the most recent podcast makes me go so far as to feel that there is something fascistic going on. It seems to be an attempt to discredit cryonics. This would mean condemning all those who have signed up for cryonics that are currently in suspension to death. I do not think that one can glibly say that cryonics will not work because we cannot for see the future and everything that I have been reading about the way technology is going makes me more and more certain that it will work. Give people with terminal diseases currently awaiting suspension  chance of life. Do not condemn us to death. We cannot wait for the wonderful new technologies that are oming along but it is the diversity of techniques to attain extended life spans that is our strength and the sheer variety of techniques means that we have less chance of missing out on something that may come along in the future that we might not otherwise have access to. I admire the opportunities for life extension that those who will be fortunate enough to escape death will use and I wish you the very best of luck but do not condemn cryonics simply because we do not have the science in place yet to cure some diseases and to reanimate the patients. I feel absolutely certain that in the future humanity will have such abilities. Further more it is morally wrong to write off people who had a great love of life and wanted to continue to exist. The strength of the movement and of science is the variety of methods we should use to attain the same goal. It reminds me of that saying by Jesus Christ "In my Father's House there are many mansions". In the quest for an extended life span there are many paths but hopefully they will all lead to the same place. Just because things seem impossible now doesn't mean that they will not seem incredibly easy to achieve in the future when humanity has more knowledge and understanding or maybe AI will solve those problems for us. Perhaps we should have a new vision that of no transhumanist being left behind and of us all doing everything we can to help each other. The suspension and reanimation of gun shot victims in America should let us see how very very close we are now to finding a way to make cryonics work.

[ceridwen]

Make sure cryonics is viable for you do not know what will happen in the future and one day you might need it yourselves

[ceridwen]

That can only be done with the right investment of money into research and the knowledge that disaster can strike you or any of your loved ones at any time and the desire to overcome such disasters. If the determination is there it will work

[ceridwen]

People should value human life more not less. No transhumanist left behind

[ADVANCESSSS]

No I have said that I hope it works and have only said things now awaiting discussion that would mean it wouldn't work, but it would if we have as I said a spirit or orb or universe point so there is some hope, but just going on if nothing is left and just particles and their physics then - is what I'v said on..k hope to hear back your rebuttals as of yet waiting...

 

Edit: the posts to rebuttal to are above your'll see I listed them just above.

Edited by ADVANCE, 26 June 2014 - 04:32 PM.