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Combating Inositol-induced brain fog with choline?

depression memory peak d chiro inositol dci verbal fluidity social damage anxiety help

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#1 Guest_Funiture2_*

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 05:52 PM


I've been dosing myo-Inositol in medium-high doses (1g-8g daily) recently without a choline source and have been experiencing some brain fog. I have trouble finding my words and speaking spontaneously. It seems my vocabulary has diminished. It helps if I reduce my dose for a couple days but I'd rather take higher amounts since there have been many positives at those doses. Those positives include feeling more present/in the moment, a slight antidepressant effect (more social too), and possibly hormone control as my acne has been reduced (some women use inositol to treat their PCOS). I also feel like I have a bit more energy. 

 

My question is whether anyone who has experienced side effects from Inositol has been able to alleviate them and how. My current attempt will be to include 250mg CDP-Choline daily. I have seen supplements including Inositol and Choline which makes sense because they are both phospholipid precursors. Would taking an excess amount of Inositol deplete your choline sources causing brain fog? "Deplete" might be the wrong word to use.    Since I read that choline can be used in 4 different pathways in the body, I suspect the increased Inositol intake allocates equal amounts of Choline in your body to be used to synthesize the phospholipid or something, and in the process taking away from some other vital brain function (basically acetylcholine production is lowered).

 

 

 

Basically my theory is that Inositol REQUIRES a choline source just like a -racetam to prevent side effects. does this hold up?

 

 

 

also this article explains the different routes that the choline can take.

http://advances.nutr...ent/1/1/46.full

 

They include:

  1. Methyl group donator
  2. Precursor to Acetylcholine
  3. Precursor to "the predominant phospholipids in membranes (phosphatidylcholine and sphingomyelin)

I swear there was a 4th one, but I hope that this better illustrates my theory since Inositol is a component of phospholipids. 


Edited by Oner, 19 June 2014 - 06:34 PM.


#2 Guest_Funiture2_*

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 06:05 PM

ok so I found this link:

 

http://examine.com/s...s&selection=all

 

which says "Two weeks supplementation of _myo_-inositol at 5g (first week) and 10g (second week) was able to increase circulating levels of choline plasmalogen, which is thought to be the reason behind a reduction in LDL-C. These changes were not present in persons without metabolic syndrome."

 

Anyone know what choline plasmalogen is exactly? Is it possible that using choline for this function instead of some other brain function could be causing a decrease in acetylcholine production? (this is all assuming high doses of myo-inositol)


Edited by Oner, 19 June 2014 - 07:01 PM.


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#3 airplanepeanuts

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 05:46 PM

I don't know if choline would help. You should try

 

In this thread a guy reports similar problems with inositol - supposedly it makes ADD worse and leads to memory problems. It's not clear if this would only happen if you already have ADD.

 

http://pssd.forumoti...pharmd inositol

 

Personally I don't think I have any kind of ADD but I noticed some memory problems after a week or two of dosing like 10-20g per day, but I am not 100% percent sure.

 

I also think that inositol makes me a little spacey which I dislike.


Edited by airplanepeanuts, 20 June 2014 - 05:48 PM.

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#4 Guest_Funiture2_*

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 09:15 PM

I don't know if choline would help. You should try

 

In this thread a guy reports similar problems with inositol - supposedly it makes ADD worse and leads to memory problems. It's not clear if this would only happen if you already have ADD.

 

http://pssd.forumoti...pharmd inositol

 

Personally I don't think I have any kind of ADD but I noticed some memory problems after a week or two of dosing like 10-20g per day, but I am not 100% percent sure.

 

I also think that inositol makes me a little spacey which I dislike.

 

Yea I feel you on the spacey part. Did you give up on the Inositol or are you still feeling those side effects? You should try out a Choline source as well if you still are.

 

I've been dosing 600mg time released Choline Bitartrate 1x a day and 250mg CDP-Choline 2x a day, can't comment on if it's helping the brain fog yet because I haven't been in any mentally challenging situations recently BUT i'm not getting ANY choline-induced depression which I would normally get at 250mg CDP-Choline just once a day. So either my myo-Inositol is helping that or its my Magnesium Glycinate, most likely both.

 

 



#5 airplanepeanuts

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 08:11 AM

It's been a while since I last tried Inositol. I think I actually stopped because I was afraid it would cause memory problems.

I am going to try it again now and will also throw in some CDP-Choline.

 

To answer your question: I noticed no persisting side effects.


Edited by airplanepeanuts, 21 June 2014 - 08:32 AM.


#6 Guest_Funiture2_*

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 01:45 PM

It's been a while since I last tried Inositol. I think I actually stopped because I was afraid it would cause memory problems.

I am going to try it again now and will also throw in some CDP-Choline.

 

To answer your question: I noticed no persisting side effects.

 

I'm not particularly worried about long term side effects since Inositol has a good safety profile and is basically a nutrient but Thank You for being a guinea pig! Please update me with your results



#7 Ames

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 08:45 PM

I never had a single memory issue before inositol. Now I do after only a week or two on it at a gram or two per day, and it's persisted long after discontinuing. I thought it was a fluke coincidence, but this thread makes me think that it isn't and that a potential warning for memory issues should accompany inositol recommendations. Frankly, it helped with nothing and I can't reason what the benefit might be. There are better supplements for everything that I've read that inositol ostensibly helps with.
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#8 airplanepeanuts

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 09:00 PM

I never had a single memory issue before inositol. Now I do after only a week or two on it at a gram or two per day, and it's persisted long after discontinuing. I thought it was a fluke coincidence, but this thread makes me think that it isn't and that a potential warning for memory issues should accompany inositol recommendations. Frankly, it helped with nothing and I can't reason what the benefit might be. There are better supplements for everything that I've read that inositol ostensibly helps with.

 

There is a gram or two of inositol in food per day and the body produces it also. Therefore it would be strange that this amount should produce noticable side effects.


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#9 Ames

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 10:35 PM

There isn't a gram or two in the average per day diet. There's no way that's true unless you are a person who eats way more than the average serving of high inositol substances. These foods aren't that common in the average diet. Even if that were true, the added 1-2 grams in supplementation would boost the intake to 3-4 grams, which may have a different effect than 1-2 grams. However, again, I don't think that's true.

 

Endogenous production of most substances that aren't waste products, absent pathology, is tightly controlled toward the body's needs. Endogenous production of something doesn't indicate exogenous safety. My body also produces adrenaline, dopamine, and testosterone but I wouldn't recommend anyone take these substances in random quantities.

 

I don't want to get into a debate, I'm just relating my experience because it matched a topic here. The fact that this is one of the few threads about a percieved common supplement that anecdotally causes memory issues, across more than one user,  is in my opinion relevant and adds to the valdity of my experience.



#10 Guest_Funiture2_*

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 01:00 AM

I never had a single memory issue before inositol. Now I do after only a week or two on it at a gram or two per day, and it's persisted long after discontinuing. I thought it was a fluke coincidence, but this thread makes me think that it isn't and that a potential warning for memory issues should accompany inositol recommendations. Frankly, it helped with nothing and I can't reason what the benefit might be. There are better supplements for everything that I've read that inositol ostensibly helps with.

 

wanna be awesome and try Inositol again but this time with a solid Choline source? I have searched this forums and have not found one example of someone trying this out to fix sides.

 

Inositol isn't perfect, it can worsen ADHD and OCD, it can cause tremors and shakes from increased Calcium activity and lack of Potassium & Magnesium, and it can also cause memory problems.

 

However the benefits for me have been numerous and I'm just trying to figure out WHY it causes certain these side effects.

 

also if you combine Choline with Inositol you may experience a synergestic benefit that you wouldn't get from Inositol alone.



#11 airplanepeanuts

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 09:33 PM

There isn't a gram or two in the average per day diet. There's no way that's true unless you are a person who eats way more than the average serving of high inositol substances. These foods aren't that common in the average diet. Even if that were true, the added 1-2 grams in supplementation would boost the intake to 3-4 grams, which may have a different effect than 1-2 grams. However, again, I don't think that's true.

 

 

All I meant was that further away from normal dietary amounts, side effects seem more likely. 

 

Maybe you are especially sensitive to Inositol.



#12 Ames

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 05:08 PM

 

 

wanna be awesome and try Inositol again but this time with a solid Choline source? I have searched this forums and have not found one example of someone trying this out to fix sides.

 

 

... it can also cause memory problems.

 

 

also if you combine Choline with Inositol you may experience a synergestic benefit that you wouldn't get from Inositol alone.

 

 

I wouldn't touch inositol again with a ten foot pole.

 

Memory problems are a non-starter, and in my opinion should be widely held as such for everyone. As I before stated, the issues didn't completely abate after I ceased taking it. If inositol is known to cause memory issues, beyond the anecdotes here, then no one should risk taking it. Furthermore, I noticed no benefits from it, despite having symptoms that inositol is reported to attenuate. There is no up-side for me.

 

Currently, I'm happy on a NGF promoting regimen in addition to  semi-weekly n-acetyl glucosamine. A lot (but not all) of what I now take is unfortunately there to counter the symptoms that started with inositol.


Edited by golgi1, 25 June 2014 - 05:09 PM.


#13 airplanepeanuts

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 09:47 AM

So, my Inositol experiment (10g/day) lasted a week and is over for now. It noticed weird memory problems a few days in. Like after a moment's distraction I can't remember what I was about to do.  This happens a noticeable times a day, whereas before never really. Also yesterday I ate a tablet that was laying around and biting on it the taste was familiar but I was not able to name it (Tylenol).

 

On the positive side Inositol is calming and maybe a little mood lifting.

 

I took a little choline also but not all the time. 

 

Is anyone taking Inositol for a long time and is not having any problems? The memory thing might also be transitory and go away with habituation(?)

 

I am pretty confident though that it's not permanent damage. 


Edited by airplanepeanuts, 28 June 2014 - 09:53 AM.


#14 Ames

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 04:09 PM

Based on the following linked-to study and experiences noted here, I believe that a new thread is potentially in order; perhaps with the headline "Indicting Inositol" or something similar. It's clear to me that no one should take it, at least pending further research.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24534010


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#15 Guest_Funiture2_*

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 03:28 PM

Based on the following linked-to study and experiences noted here, I believe that a new thread is potentially in order; perhaps with the headline "Indicting Inositol" or something similar. It's clear to me that no one should take it, at least pending further research.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24534010

 

Hi wait before we go so far I'd like to share some positive attempts at Inositol.

 

I have read extensively that Inositol may not only deplete Choline but also most minerals. Magnesium was given the most attention on the forums that I read. It is absolutely necessary to ensure proper Magnesium & Potassium levels when supplementing with Inositol, the higher doses may require a supernormal need for them as well.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22889135

"A trio of activated cofactor Mg²⁺ ions is required for inositol monophosphate hydrolysis by IMPase."

 

I have managed to end the anxiety and slight hand tremors that come with Inositol, as well as a some brain fog. This is by managing my electrolytes/minerals with 400-800mg of Magnesium Glycinate, 2,000-3,000mg Potassium and a teaspoon of sea salt each day, (plus I already had been taking Iron & Zinc)

 

I've also seen some evidence of Lithium inactivating brain Inositol and possibly there is a vice versa relationship. There is some property to Inositol that allows it to interact with metals in the body which I beleive is why side effects pop up after higher doses. I know it is twisted logic to continue with a compound that has so many troubles but I really believe Inositol has great potential it just should never be dosed alone.

 

Another symptom I have is apathy. I cannot lay the blame on Inositol since this was my normal mood state a few months ago, which I thought Magnesium and Zinc had alleviated. However I plan on taking Lithium soon because of this:

 

http://www.dr-bob.or...sgs/611673.html

"I liked inositol intitially for sleeping (decreased waking during the night) and it did seem to have both a relaxing and antidepressant effect. However in the end it made me go a bit nuts (as in very emotionally unbalanced). I cured that with one pill of lithium orotate, which made me wonder if inositol depletes the brain of lithium (and vice versa is known I think)."







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: depression, memory, peak, d chiro inositol, dci, verbal fluidity, social, damage, anxiety, help

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