17 replies to this topic

[hermetic]

I need some input regarding what I can do to feel normal again..

 

In March/April 2014, I managed to get hold of some ambien. The reason for wanting to take them was to reset my sleeping pattern. I have a very bad sleeping pattern where I would stay up and surf online until the early hours (3.30am) and wake around 10am/11am. This pattern has existed for last 3 or so years, and it fits in with my afternoon job. I thought I could somehow maybe reset my sleeping pattern with the intervention of some sleeping medication, so it could assist me in developing better sleep hygiene. I wanted to develop a pattern of being in bed asleep by around 12am the latest, and rise early at around 8am.

 

I had managed to get hold of around 30 ambien tablets, and during the months of March and April, I took maybe one or two a week, and then towards the end of April, I was having a bad week, so I ended up taking ambien on 3 consecutive nights. One tablet each night. 

 

During that time, I started to develop really severe depressive suicidal thoughts.. and I haven't felt this way before in my life. But life became so 'dark' like a cloud was hovering over my head and I lost complete interest in almost everything, which included socialising and a lot of my interests just diminished. I had a few episodes of a complete breakdown. I spent a few mornings just crying and ruminating over my past and reflecting on my spent youth. 

 

The suicidal thoughts plagued me. I just kept thinking it would be easier if i were to die and I wouldn't have to endure the mundane existence I thought I am currently having. 

 

I placed two and two together, and realised that this all started the moment I started taking ambien. I had taking around 12 tablets all together, so I still have around 18 or so remaining. I immediately stopped them and did a google search and realised that this symptom of depression being induced by ambien is quite common among certain individuals. I ceased taking ambient completely, but the only problem is, its been the whole month of May and coming up to the month of June.. and these depressive thoughts and feelings and these crying spells haven't stopped.. 

 

I just don't feel like the same person. It feels as though ambien has done something that has altered my brain chemistry. I am having thoughts so out of character, it is terrifying me that I may have caused a permanent change. My interests in socialising have diminished as have other activities I had interests in. 

 

I'm at my wits end and I cannot explain why ambien has had this effect on me during such a short period of time with its usage. 

 

Can anybody recommend anything I could try to reverse this effect or at least give me an explanation of what ambien has done to my thinking/brain?

[Duchykins]

Just give it time, as if it were a true benzo.

Were you taking the CR version? That is the more popularly prescribed one.

What else were you taking? Include vitamins.

How did you take it and what did you do immediately after taking it while waiting for it to kick in?

That may seem an odd question but wity this particular drug, it matters
Also tell us if you take melatonin

[arvcondor]

You also have to consider the possibility that even if Ambien induced depression as a side effect, you've now locked on to it independently of any drug. Taking Ambien for a few days didn't do any permanent damage to you that's still around. But it may have triggered some things in you you weren't aware of. 

Edited by arvcondor, 28 June 2014 - 04:53 AM.

[Duchykins]

You also have to consider the possibility that even if Ambien induced depression as a side effect, you've now locked on to it independently of any drug. Taking Ambien for a few days didn't do any permanent damage to you that's still around. But it may have triggered some things in you you weren't aware of. 

This is a good point which is related to my asking what he did immediately after taking it. It's possible something bad happened and he doesn't quite remember it, and it's also possible that he is remembering past negative events with greater clarity, as zolpidem can improve memory which capitalizes on our inherent tendency to recall bad events better than good. But either way I agree that he can be dwelling on things that are independent of any neurological effects he's worried about

One of the more important symptoms of withdrawal from zolpidem is suicidal thoughts but these dont last longer than a onth I think.. It's still good toknow what e
se was taken

[Duchykins]

You also have to consider the possibility that even if Ambien induced depression as a side effect, you've now locked on to it independently of any drug. Taking Ambien for a few days didn't do any permanent damage to you that's still around. But it may have triggered some things in you you weren't aware of. 

This is a good point which is related to my asking what he did immediately after taking it. It's possible something bad happened and he doesn't quite remember it, and it's also possible that he is remembering past negative events with greater clarity, as zolpidem can improve memory which capitalizes on our inherent tendency to recall bad events better than good. But either way I agree that he can be dwelling on things that are independent of any neurological effects he's worried about

One of the more important symptoms of withdrawal from zolpidem is suicidal thoughts but these dont last longer than a onth I think.. It's still good toknow what e
se was taken

[Duchykins]

You also have to consider the possibility that even if Ambien induced depression as a side effect, you've now locked on to it independently of any drug. Taking Ambien for a few days didn't do any permanent damage to you that's still around. But it may have triggered some things in you you weren't aware of. 

This is a good point which is related to my asking what he did immediately after taking it. It's possible something bad happened and he doesn't quite remember it, and it's also possible that he is remembering past negative events with greater clarity, as zolpidem can improve memory which capitalizes on our inherent tendency to recall bad events better than good. But either way I agree that he can be dwelling on things that are independent of any neurological effects he's worried about

One of the more important symptoms of withdrawal from zolpidem is suicidal thoughts but these dont last longer than a onth I think.. It's still good toknow what e
se was taken

[Duchykins]

You also have to consider the possibility that even if Ambien induced depression as a side effect, you've now locked on to it independently of any drug. Taking Ambien for a few days didn't do any permanent damage to you that's still around. But it may have triggered some things in you you weren't aware of. 

This is a good point which is related to my asking what he did immediately after taking it. It's possible something bad happened and he doesn't quite remember it, and it's also possible that he is remembering past negative events with greater clarity, as zolpidem can improve memory which capitalizes on our inherent tendency to recall bad events better than good. But either way I agree that he can be dwelling on things that are independent of any neurological effects he's worried about

One of the more important symptoms of withdrawal from zolpidem is suicidal thoughts but these dont last longer than a onth I think.. It's still good toknow what e
se was taken

[Major Legend]

bacopa upregulates gaba right?

 

I would go for rhodiola + bacopa + phenylalanine + raw cacao 

 

It happens, sometimes people have certain triggers. Its always a risk when taking any medicine that it could trigger some hidden cascade. My guess was the issue was already there, but Ambien triggered it to activate.

 

Its a horrific drug anyways...I pretty much relegate it to a absolute last ditch effort medicine for sleep maybe once or twice a year, e.g. on long haul flights. It has some really weird side effects, and by weird I mean really really weird, it doesn't actually give you restful sleep, causes sleep walking, if you don't fall asleep you end up doing some weird stuff and forget about it.

 

The day I decided to ditch it for good was when one day, I was looking at my internet history, and I saw myself waking up middle of the night googling weird stuff like assisted suicide, death, weird topics, all very morbid stuff. Yet I HAD ABSOLUTELY NO MEMORY OF WAKING UP, BROWSING and going back to sleep at all, but from the browsing history I was up FOR HOURS and forgot about it completely.

[hermetic]

Just give it time, as if it were a true benzo.

Were you taking the CR version? That is the more popularly prescribed one.

What else were you taking? Include vitamins.

How did you take it and what did you do immediately after taking it while waiting for it to kick in?

That may seem an odd question but wity this particular drug, it matters
Also tell us if you take melatonin

 

 

I was taking a generic brand called zolpidem. Not the slow release version, just the standard version. 

 

I have a standard supplement concoction I take regularly which includes a mutivitamin, acerola cherry powder, spirulina/chlorella/wheathgrass.

 

I would take it around 5 minutes before I would go to sleep. It did help me to fall straight to sleep - it was only during the mornings when I would wake up, use the bathroom, and then these dark thoughts would immediately begin to surface. 

 

I haven't taken melatonin before - I do not think it is available as an over the counter supplement in my country.

[hermetic]

I'm not really the sort of person to ruminate and dwell on past events - and I have NEVER experienced any deep symptoms of depression before. But now, I just constantly reflect on past decisions, on past events and my self esteem has taken a complete knock back. I keep comparing myself to everybody - aesthetically, financially and my career - and the thoughts of being ugly - a loser - etc etc have become so predominant, and then I then gets thoughts of suicide - like why am I even bothering to continue when I could put an end to all this emotional pain. It really is bizarre as I had never had these thoughts before March of this year - honestly. 

 

I don't think I could ever actually commit suicide, as I don't actually want to. It's more that the thoughts are there and now I keep viewing all experiences in a negative context. Everything has become tainted with negativity. My glass is now always have empty. 

 

I just want to get back to being me again! This is so extremely out of character for me. Maybe ambien has brought unresolved issues to the surface, I just don't know, but I was doing fine before without resolving them! Was just plodding along getting on with it all. 

[mikee37]

ambien had a similiar effect to me  I thought i was the only one.

[chemicalambrosia]

My personal layman's theory is that Ambien is a shitty drug for people with a sensitive NMDA system and/or a dodgy GABA/glutamate balance. It has a short half life, and subjectively it seems to have similar results on the gaba and glutamate systems as drinking a ton of alcohol. When it wears off, your glutamate system rebounds and this can cause anxiety, depression, insomnia, irritability, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that you have abused alcohol or other drugs in the past, as that could probably make you more sensitive to the Ambien.

 

Anyways, it is likely that the effects it had put you into a depression, and that is what you are dealing with now, and possibly a still overactive glutamate system. I don't know what country you are in, but if in Europe I would either go to a doctor/psychiatrist and explain what the ambien has done to you, and maybe even relate my layman theory to him/her. I would look for a prescription to tianeptine if it is available in your country. If not, and you are in the US, you can order tianeptine as if it is a supplement(nootropics depot, ceretropic, newmind, etc). I would try tianeptine by itself for a while, and try adding other things or switching to something else if it isn't effective. You might try CBT or therapy too. Once you get out of this depressive stage you will be fine.

Edited by chemicalambrosia, 28 June 2014 - 07:59 PM.

[Duchykins]

bacopa upregulates gaba right?
 
I would go for rhodiola + bacopa + phenylalanine + raw cacao 
 
It happens, sometimes people have certain triggers. Its always a risk when taking any medicine that it could trigger some hidden cascade. My guess was the issue was already there, but Ambien triggered it to activate.
 
Its a horrific drug anyways...I pretty much relegate it to a absolute last ditch effort medicine for sleep maybe once or twice a year, e.g. on long haul flights. It has some really weird side effects, and by weird I mean really really weird, it doesn't actually give you restful sleep, causes sleep walking, if you don't fall asleep you end up doing some weird stuff and forget about it.
 
The day I decided to ditch it for good was when one day, I was looking at my internet history, and I saw myself waking up middle of the night googling weird stuff like assisted suicide, death, weird topics, all very morbid stuff. Yet I HAD ABSOLUTELY NO MEMORY OF WAKING UP, BROWSING and going back to sleep at all, but from the browsing history I was up FOR HOURS and forgot about it completely.

Ambien horror stories (crazy stuff without memory) invariably involve one or more of the following:

1) ambien CR
2) people using it wrongly


By wrong I don't mean abuse. I mean someone takes a pill and then goes back to watching tv, playing video games, on the internet/computer, have sex, something else that is mildly stimulating and attention-capturing. That is the wrong way to use ambien, a HYPNOTIC, you are supposed to build healthy sleep habits with it and then get off, with the more extreme cases needing long term treatment. You eat NOTHING two hours before bedtime, you take your pill with a small amount of water, turn everything off and wait quietly, *sit* rather than lying down in your bed. It's not that difficult. It will start kicking your ass in about 5-15 mins and then you will sleep.


Doing any different is an invitation for trouble. Taking a pill then busying yourself with something else until it 'kicks in' is how people get their wild stories. Or if they've eaten sometime in the past two hours, so that it 'doesn't work' and they decide to take another pill, or they're using tobacco close to bedtime/after they took their ambien. Also if they're taking CR and not giving themselves at least a 7-8 hour window of sleep. With the original formula you can easily wake refreshed and alert with just 5 hours.

Ambien should only be used by people who have sleep-onset insomnia, if you wkae in the night, or sleep too littlle/waking early, then you shouldn't take it. The CR version is mysteriously prescribed more often than the original formula for no apparent reason, is marketed more heavily and way more popular with the public. There is NO GOOD REASON for this as the original formula is generally superior, it is 'cleaner' than CR and should be out of your system by the time you wake up 6-7 hours.

Don't even bother to try to say you did it right. No one familiar with the intricacies of this drug will believe you.

Edited by Duchykins, 28 June 2014 - 09:31 PM.

[Duchykins]

I'm not really the sort of person to ruminate and dwell on past events - and I have NEVER experienced any deep symptoms of depression before. But now, I just constantly reflect on past decisions, on past events and my self esteem has taken a complete knock back. I keep comparing myself to everybody - aesthetically, financially and my career - and the thoughts of being ugly - a loser - etc etc have become so predominant, and then I then gets thoughts of suicide - like why am I even bothering to continue when I could put an end to all this emotional pain. It really is bizarre as I had never had these thoughts before March of this year - honestly. 
 
I don't think I could ever actually commit suicide, as I don't actually want to. It's more that the thoughts are there and now I keep viewing all experiences in a negative context. Everything has become tainted with negativity. My glass is now always have empty. 
 
I just want to get back to being me again! This is so extremely out of character for me. Maybe ambien has brought unresolved issues to the surface, I just don't know, but I was doing fine before without resolving them! Was just plodding along getting on with it all. 

Try to talk to a psychologist first, not psychiatrist, and see if this can be resolved without more drugs.

[adamh]

Ambien is only useful for short term insomnia, very short term. It is less than useless for long term because it stops working and has many negative side effects. It does not improve memory, in fact it worsens memory and can cause amnesia. People who have used it long term often have these side effects for years after ward much like benzo after effects. 

 

http://www.rxlist.co...drug-center.htm

 

Tell your doctor right away if any of these unlikely but serious side effects occur: memory loss, mental/mood/behavior changes (such as new/worsening depression, abnormal thoughts, thoughts of suicide, hallucinations, confusion, agitation, aggressive behavior, anxiety).

Rarely, after taking this drug, people have gotten out of bed and driven vehicles while not fully awake ("sleep-driving"). People have also sleepwalked, prepared/eaten food, made phone calls, or had sex while not fully awake. Often, these people do not remember these events. This problem can be dangerous to you or to others.

[Duchykins]

Ambien increases the density of sleep spindles, yes it can improve your recall as I mentioned earlier. It's important to distinguish the acute and temporary short-term memory loss while vs other kinds of memory loss including any long-term problem

[Major Legend]

Interesting advice, each to their own I guess. Ambien is famous for side effects, whether people are using it in the right way or not I don't know. If such a thing really exists we should have some established protocol and have trial tests to see if it makes a difference for people.

 

Anyways OP if you are still having sleep trouble you can try this thing I invented for myself due to my need to:

 

625mg X 9 capsules magnesium malate, even better if you can have an EPSOM SALT Bath as well.

100 to 200 mg bacopa

1000mg valerian root or Irwin Power To Sleep (only if the other chemicals together still won't put you to sleep, preferably not due to them these being weak GABA agonists)

 

Now here is the trick, its a little weird and certainly don't use it if you have heart issues. I am not a doctor, do not take this as professional advice.

 

! Turn the aircon or lower the temperature in your room as much as possible, be cold, feel cold. Go naked if you have too...of course I mean like wearing shorts, vest etc, still have blanket you do not want to cause yourself hypothermia, that would be fail.

 

Take 2 10mg propranolol tablets and put it under your tongue, then go read a fiction book, currently I am reading Forever by Pete Hamill, its about a guy who can live forever as long as he doesn't leave New York, highly recommend it.

 

DO NOT SLEEP before the propranalol is completely dissolved underneath your tongue, hence reading the book...fiction is good because it pulls your attention away from stressful matters and into another time and place.

 

this combination of antianxiety of magnesium, bacopa, cold temperature and your blood pressure being dropped suddenly will put you to sleep, your body will literally lose the fight to stay awake. 20mg of propranalol the beta blocker underneath the ton is well within safe margins (again I am not a doctor, this is not professional advice)

 

When I use this I get great sleep, wake up alert, and as a bonus bacopa actually is upregulates gaba and is a nootropic, I don't need to abuse my gaba receptors to fall sleep, and you can't become tolerant to magnesium and a beta blocker (I hope...).

 

OF COURSE LIE IN BED common sense, whilst reading the book with the tablets underneath your tongue, the last thing you want is to be standing, sitting and fall asleep then hit your head on the corner of something sharp and killing yourself (just saying in case it isn't obvious)

Edited by Major Legend, 28 June 2014 - 11:14 PM.

[arvcondor]

I would also completely abstain from booze during this period if the problem is in fact GABA related.