279 replies to this topic

[niner]

The survival rate for people treated in the US is pretty impressive so far. The condition of the Liberian guy in Dallas has continued to be rated "Serious", so he's not getting worse. I'm flabbergasted at the multiple bungles on display there. He was at first sent home with a bottle of antibiotics, despite telling them he just came in from Liberia. He barfed in the parking lot when the ambulance picked him up, and later some guy was nonchalantly hosing it off without a mask or apparent concern.

I've heard it claimed that the Liberian guy knew he was at high risk, and came to America specifically to be here if he got sick. I couldn't confirm or deny that, but it seems plausible. How many others might try that trick? They'd have to be educated and have money, at the least. How would you like to be the person who owns the apartment he was staying in? I but you could get a good deal on it...

The outcome of the Dallas case will be instructive. I predict little transmission, possibly none, but family and EMTs are at risk. I think that anyone who comes to another country from one of the endemic areas should be monitored (daily temperature checks) for 21 days. That would put a lid on transmission without going to the extreme of closing the border, which has potentially huge economic costs and would drive any traveling cases underground.

[shifter]

I do wonder if ebola took grip on a 1st world country such as America would we see such high mortality rates that we see in Africa? As these people in Africa are amongst the poorest countries on the planet, one can only assume that their health would be in a continuous 'sub optimal' level (maybe I am generalising).

 

I imagine fluid upkeep and staying well hydrated would be pretty important. So if you compare people living in poverty with never enough water to drink in searing heat catching ebola with 'rich' people in milder climates with access to as much pure water as they want, good nutrition and advanced medicine then I think ebola would be no worse than 'flu' for non high risk group people (high risk being babies, seniors, pregnant women and diabetes etc).

 

Hysteria over ebola is stupid. Currently the death toll stands at nearly 3500 (starting from December 2013

http://www.toledobla...9-WHO-says.html

 

This equals around 11-12 people per day. Contrast that with the flu estimated to be half a million a year from either the flu or its complications at around 1370 per day. Which means more people have been killed by that 'regular' virus alone in the past few days then all ebola outbreaks put together.

 

How many people does diarrhea kill across the world each year? Around 800,000 or 2192 per day. No one worries about that in rich countries because we can fix it. I am sure the same would be true of Ebola. It's scary because it kills but so far it's only existed in the poorest places.

 

This is also considering this is from nations which are poor, do not have great hygene and have rituals whereby the dead bodies are washed. Everything you could think of to make help spread transmission, these affected countries do.

 

If I caught ebola, sure I would be concerned, but I believe the odds of my survival would be much good and much higher than someone in Africa who is poor and has no access to good food, clean water and medicine (dont forget, plenty of these people have survived it).

 

Edited by shifter, 04 October 2014 - 08:58 PM.

[niner]

I imagine fluid upkeep and staying well hydrated would be pretty important. So if you compare people living in poverty with never enough water to drink in searing heat catching ebola with 'rich' people in milder climates with access to as much pure water as they want, good nutrition and advanced medicine then I think ebola would be no worse than 'flu' for non high risk group people (high risk being babies, seniors, pregnant women and diabetes etc).

 

It's worse than flu.  A lot worse, if you get it.   Flu is much more contagious, and a lot more people get it.  It's not access to water, food, and general health level that is the big difference between West Africa and the rich nations- it's access to modern hospitals that are capable of the expensive process of extreme infection control. 

 

A Hospital in Sierra Leone, with girl lying in infectious waste:

 

 20141002-SIERRALEONE-slide-RRAQ-jumbo.jpg   97.2KB   2 downloads

 

US Hospital:

 

 Story.jpg   61.47KB   1 downloads

[Mind]

 

 

It's worse than flu.  A lot worse, if you get it. 

 

You were hospitalized with a bad case of the flu (perhaps the swine flu) a couple years ago, can you say for certain, that ebola would be worse. I know that seems to be the case based upon historical monitoring/study of ebola - but that is in Africa. I wonder what the two people who were transported to the U.S. for treatment last month would say. They were ill for about a week or so. Now they are fine. They have probably had bad flu in the past at some point in their life, something to compare to.

[Nemo888]

The question is one of infrastructure and cost. There is insufficient resources to handle a full epidemic. Liberia is down to two pediatricians for the entire country, the rest are dead or fled. It doesn't take much to overwhelm healthcare. Not sure I would go in to work during a full epidemic. I'm no longer in the army and my current employer can't risk my life. If too many healthcare workers get sick and the rest bail you will die of sepsis, fever, dehydration, etc, etc,etc,

 

We don't even have powered air-purifying respirators, hoods or reverse air in isolation rooms. There is no time to properly prepare here and I see no moral obligation to go into a workplace that is negligently unsafe. I have a family too. N95 isn't going to cut it.

http://www.cidrap.um...rotection-ebola

 

You should be freaking out more. Right now it is just a candle knocked over on a table. It will be much more interesting in January. Old days we used to burn the village to the ground. Guys who did it would often drink themselves to death after, messy work. Come January you'll be wishing we did.

Edited by Nemo888, 05 October 2014 - 03:06 PM.

[niner]

The question is one of infrastructure and cost. There is insufficient resources to handle a full epidemic. Liberia is down to two pediatricians for the entire country, the rest are dead or fled. It doesn't take much to overwhelm healthcare. Not sure I would go in to work during a full epidemic. I'm no longer in the army and my current employer can't risk my life. If too many healthcare workers get sick and the rest bail you will die of sepsis, fever, dehydration, etc, etc,etc,

Liberia has a problem, that's for sure. That's why we're sending in a 4000 man biowarfare response team. How many cases do you anticipate we'll have in the US?
 

We don't even have powered air-purifying respirators, hoods or reverse air in isolation rooms. There is no time to properly prepare here and I see no moral obligation to go into a workplace that is negligently unsafe. I have a family too. N95 isn't going to cut it.
http://www.cidrap.um...rotection-ebola

I have a PAPR in my garage. You can get one here.  Do you really think that the most powerful and wealthiest nation on Earth can't get some isolation rooms in place on short notice if our lives depend on it?   It's not rocket science.  Hell, you can get a P100 respirator, gloves and Tyvek suits at the Home Depot.  It may not be optimal, but it would be about a zillion times better than what's going on in West Africa.
 

You should be freaking out more. Right now it is just a candle knocked over on a table. It will be much more interesting in January. Old days we used to burn the village to the ground. Guys who did it would often drink themselves to death after, messy work. Come January you'll be wishing we did.

 

If you want to call in an airstrike on Dallas, I'd be ok with that.    (It's going to take a lot of napalm...)  Others may disagree.  I don't think freaking out leads to good decisions.

Edited by niner, 06 October 2014 - 01:06 AM.

[Nemo888]

The disease could have been stopped months ago for a few million. Now it will be billions if we get it right. If we drop the ball a second time it will be a trillion. I'm saying that freaking out is a good thing sometimes. Throw unlimited resources at Africa until it is gone. Then relax and think of all the money and lives you saved. This is also an economic issue. In regards to getting equipment during a crisis we couldn't even get enough N95"s during SARS. I know someone who got it and she was never really the same. Dogged by health issues for years. When you need millions of an item manufacturing time becomes an issue.

 

There were rumours that napalm was used, but I never saw any proof of it. Usually just tanker trucks of fuel to spray down any infected homes or areas including bodies. Looting and burial were a huge problem.

Edited by Nemo888, 06 October 2014 - 10:09 AM.

[Nemo888]

Also wondering how you plan to retrofit thousands of hospitals for reverse air. In the vast majority it is only the ORs and sterile storage.

[niner]

Reverse air is pretty extreme for a disease that isn't transmitted through air.  Again, it sounds like you're anticipating thousands of cases in the US; I think that's unlikely.  At the moment we have one, and it sounds like the contact tracing is pretty much under control.  I think that as long as we're careful with people coming in from West Africa, we are not going to see people dying in the streets.

 

The situation in Africa is an entirely different story.  You're right that we could have contained it cheaply if we had acted early enough.   I hope that the existing response is enough; it may or may not be.  If Africa falls into total chaos, that's an economic and security problem for the entire planet.  We committed three trillion dollars in the name of imaginary WMDs.  This time the threat is real.

[niner]

 

It's worse than flu.  A lot worse, if you get it. 

 

You were hospitalized with a bad case of the flu (perhaps the swine flu) a couple years ago, can you say for certain, that ebola would be worse. I know that seems to be the case based upon historical monitoring/study of ebola - but that is in Africa. I wonder what the two people who were transported to the U.S. for treatment last month would say. They were ill for about a week or so. Now they are fine. They have probably had bad flu in the past at some point in their life, something to compare to.

 

I had Legionnaire's disease compounded with Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome.  That has a 70% fatality rate, which is worse than Ebola.  My case (in 2006) was so bad that the doctors told me it was "a miracle that I survived"  (exact words they used)..   Flu is a whole different story.  For the typical flu, a healthy person is almost certain to survive.  If a secondary bacterial pneumonia develops, that is still very treatable and survivable if you're healthy, but is more of a problem for the elderly and immunosuppressed.  Occasionally a flu with a high fatality rate will come along, like the 1918 pandemic, and this is why we worry so much about some kinds of bird flu.  While the vast majority of people with flu are never hospitalized, Ebola is very likely to kill you without hospitalization.   Even with hospitalization, it's pretty ugly.  The Liberian patient in Dallas was downgraded to "critical" yesterday, despite the technology they are throwing at the case.

[Mind]

 

 

It's worse than flu.  A lot worse, if you get it. 

 

You were hospitalized with a bad case of the flu (perhaps the swine flu) a couple years ago, can you say for certain, that ebola would be worse. I know that seems to be the case based upon historical monitoring/study of ebola - but that is in Africa. I wonder what the two people who were transported to the U.S. for treatment last month would say. They were ill for about a week or so. Now they are fine. They have probably had bad flu in the past at some point in their life, something to compare to.

 

I had Legionnaire's disease compounded with Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome.  That has a 70% fatality rate, which is worse than Ebola.  My case (in 2006) was so bad that the doctors told me it was "a miracle that I survived"  (exact words they used)..   Flu is a whole different story.  For the typical flu, a healthy person is almost certain to survive.  If a secondary bacterial pneumonia develops, that is still very treatable and survivable if you're healthy, but is more of a problem for the elderly and immunosuppressed.  Occasionally a flu with a high fatality rate will come along, like the 1918 pandemic, and this is why we worry so much about some kinds of bird flu.  While the vast majority of people with flu are never hospitalized, Ebola is very likely to kill you without hospitalization.   Even with hospitalization, it's pretty ugly.  The Liberian patient in Dallas was downgraded to "critical" yesterday, despite the technology they are throwing at the case.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification Niner, I thought you had said you contracted the swine flu (or at least suspected at the time).

 

The Dallas fellow has kidney failure now. Not looking too good. His girlfriend says he is not getting the same treatment as the others who recovered well after infection. And he was already in bad shape when he was admitted, because they turned him away the first time. How could that happen? Ridiculous.

[RorschachRev]

This is unverified media report, I'd love to see some better science done on this. It sounds like everyone who was in the taxi cab with this woman died. http://www.dailymail...teful-ride.html

 

Based on my research I'm classifying stages of ebola virus, she was at the most contagious stage where you either get better or die. The people who bleed tend to die, the people with massive joint pain tend to get better. The vomiting in the parking lot was the beginning of the most contagious stage. The wiki article states "nearly 2 months" after passing through the worst phase, but reports have detected the virus for 3 months after recovery. It is possible to be permanently infectious, I haven't seen negative evidence stating the breast milk and semen was testing negative. Infected breast milk has killed several people in several outbreaks. For long term contagion, I have references inside the article. http://www.stopebola...le/stages-ebola

[RorschachRev]

I forgot to post my original point - that prior to the taxi cab ride media report I would have been less insistent on the Reverse Air treatment. They have done experiments where ebola was transmitted by contact with eyes. So if someone sneezes, that is an airborne vector. If any of it hits your eyes, you are probably infected. My previous research also indicates that sweat may be an infection vector, and that includes touching something where a person sweated and then rubbing your eyes.

 

Since it is a RNA virus, UV lights will be an effective stop to contact infection, but not 100% effective.

 

On the topic of "infection vectors" it is important to have a paranoid estimate and a higher certainty contagion vector. Nobody has really published infection likelihood by method of transmission. Even if there is 1% chance of infection for touching a sweaty chair after someone who was infected sat in it, it is important to note the vector. When they shared needles, there was a 100% contagion rate among patients and medical staff, with secondary infection for most of the medical staff families, and a tertiary infection stage. In other outbreaks they managed to stop it before secondary infection.

 

In the 2014 West Africa outbreak, 370 medical staff have become infected so far, and over 50% of them have died.

 

Edited by RorschachRev, 06 October 2014 - 07:17 PM.

[Nemo888]

I agree agree that the 1950's protocols for droplet, contact and airborne are entirely inadequate for protecting medical personnel. I am pushing for the cidrap recommendations at work. For SARS 43% of infected were health care workers in Canada. Making sure it is documented now so the hospital has to admit negligence if any of my friends or coworkers die this time. Read up Niner.http://www.cidrap.um...rotection-ebola Breathing is not too bad but when you have a patient crying, puking, having diahorhea and screaming all at the same time at 3am I really want reverse air and papr. We have time to get prepared now. We don't once it is happeneing.

Edited by Nemo888, 06 October 2014 - 07:39 PM.

[niner]

I forgot to post my original point - that prior to the taxi cab ride media report I would have been less insistent on the Reverse Air treatment. They have done experiments where ebola was transmitted by contact with eyes. So if someone sneezes, that is an airborne vector. If any of it hits your eyes, you are probably infected. My previous research also indicates that sweat may be an infection vector, and that includes touching something where a person sweated and then rubbing your eyes.

 
The woman in the cab was reported to have blood running out of her mouth, and these people carried her. I don't think this particular incident means reverse air pressure is required in all cases. Of course it would be a good idea, but I think the evidence of its essentiality is thin.
 

I agree agree that the 1950's protocols for droplet, contact and airborne are entirely inadequate for protecting medical personnel. I am pushing for the cidrap recommendations at work. For SARS 43% of infected were health care workers in Canada. Making sure it is documented now so the hospital has to admit negligence if any of my friends or coworkers die this time. Read up Niner.http://www.cidrap.um...rotection-ebola Breathing is not too bad but when you have a patient crying, puking, having diahorhea and screaming all at the same time at 3am I really want reverse air and papr. We have time to get prepared now. We don't once it is happeneing.

 

The cidrap recommendations are fine for first world institutions that can afford them and have any likelihood of ever seeing a critically infectious patient. Of course it would be wonderful if we could equip all African hospitals with PAPRs and negative pressure units. That's kind of overboard when there are health care workers there that don't even have adequate supplies of gloves, masks, and gowns. First things first.  That said, of course health care workers on the front lines should be protected, and I hope that our current efforts are seeing to that.  Call me cynical, but the cidrap site receives unrestricted funding from 3M, the manufacturer of the most popular brand of PAPR. 

 

You seem to be expecting a huge Ebola epidemic in the US, although you've never answered my questions regarding that.  Let me ask it a different way:  How will this epidemic spread?  How many patients are you expecting to see?    I think we should be monitoring anyone who enters the country from an Ebola zone so that an epidemic doesn't get going.  We could, for example, tell people to report to the health department in their area once a day for a temperature check or face deportation.  Given the seriousness of the situation, I think we could afford to be uncool to tourists until this thing is under control.

[Nemo888]

I simply want to be prepared. SARS was a gong show and we ran out of N95 masks. Since 43% of infected were healthcare workers it is safe to say that N95 is inadequate. SARS wasn't supposed to come here either.

Pouring resources into Africa is of course the best use of resources and I don't think any should be spared. We need more funding for healthcare. I was in the army before. We had money to burn on crazy shit to catch nonexistent terrorists. We should get people panicky about this. Better than wasting money on ISIS. 10,000 Sunni's, 1000 of whom are scary Chechens and a hundred or so Western militants is not even a threat to Baghdad. Ebola is an actual threat.

Edited by Nemo888, 06 October 2014 - 09:12 PM.

[RorschachRev]

I wish this page from the CDC was more accurate: http://www.cdc.gov/v...sion/index.html Several people have died from contagion to ebola after the person was "better" and no longer had symptoms. Ebola is still contagious after all symptoms are gone, just less contagious and detected in fewer bodily fluids. (The virus leaves the blood before it leaves breast milk and semen.)

[RorschachRev]

The woman in the cab was reported to have blood running out of her mouth, and these people carried her. I don't think this particular incident means reverse air pressure is required in all cases. Of course it would be a good idea, but I think the evidence of its essentiality is thin.

 

I'm inclined to agree with you, but they tend to minimize the "airborne effect" by claiming the fluids need to be "aerosol" or "vaporized" first. That includes breathing on someone and sneezing. If you can smell their breath, you can probably catch ebola from them. 

[niner]

I wish this page from the CDC was more accurate: http://www.cdc.gov/v...sion/index.html Several people have died from contagion to ebola after the person was "better" and no longer had symptoms. Ebola is still contagious after all symptoms are gone, just less contagious and detected in fewer bodily fluids. (The virus leaves the blood before it leaves breast milk and semen.)

On that page it says this:

 

 

Once someone recovers from Ebola, they can no longer spread the virus. However, Ebola virus has been found in semen for up to 3 months. People who recover from Ebola are advised to abstain from sex or use condoms for 3 months.

 

I guess what you object to is the statement that they can no longer spread the virus.  I suppose that would be more accurate if they included "unless you are in the habit of having sex with or breastfeeding from them".  I think that the next two sentences cover that, so I don't really see a problem.  Do you have a reference for the claim that several people have died from contagion to ebola after the person was "better" and no longer had symptoms?  Were they having sex with them?  Could they have been exposed elsewhere?

[Mind]

I just can't believe that it is so easily contagious as some people here are claiming. I think you are blowing it out of proportion and contributing to mass hysteria.

 

As I mentioned previously, ebola has been around for many decades, at least, probably for centuries roaming around Africa. I have read about "outbreaks" periodically in Africa since the 1980s. Never has there been a world-wide epidemic, even though there has been little monitoring (compared to today), no medications, no travel restrictions, etc... People from these areas of Africa have been travelling around the world for DECADES!! Read that again.....

 

DECADES.

 

For crying out loud, in the first half of the 20th century, men in Europe used to have great ape testicles grafted into their scrotums for a testosterone boost. If that didn't bring Ebola to Europe (as well as plenty of immigration for the last century), nothing will. If you are so sure that it can be spread through the air and can remain in someone for months with no symptoms and still be spread.....you have some big explaining to do. Why no hysterical threat of mass epidemics until, literally, the last month.

 

If you are saying it has mutated lately or something, then you are in the land of pure speculation.

 

All I am saying is be rational. Take rational precautions with the information we have.

[Nemo888]

http://onlinelibrary...10.04778.x/full

If you don't think it is dangerous maybe you should read more. I work in a hospital and I think we are unprepared for more than a handful of cases and even those pose a substantial risk to personnel. When it comes and we are unprepared like last time I'm going to be mad at selfish douchebags who were too cheap to take adequate precautions.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8551825
Secondary transmission of Ebola virus infection in humans is known to be caused by direct contact with infected patients or body fluids. We report transmission of Ebola virus (Zaire strain) to two of three control rhesus monkeys (Macaca mulatta) that did not have direct contact with experimentally inoculated monkeys held in the same room. The two control monkeys died from Ebola virus infections at 10 and 11 days after the last experimentally inoculated monkey had died. The most likely route of infection of the control monkeys was aerosol, oral or conjunctival exposure to virus-laden droplets secreted or excreted from the experimentally inoculated monkeys. These observations suggest approaches to the study of routes of transmission to and among humans.

Edit: fixed broken pubmed link. -niner

Edited by niner, 06 October 2014 - 11:00 PM.

[niner]

Here is a newer paper showing transmission from pigs to monkeys.  Like the abstract that Nemo888 posted, this involved animals that shared a containment facility.  I take two lessons from this:  1) We should make every effort to isolate anyone with Ebola.  2) Don't share a containment facility with an Ebola victim.   It might be the case that people are different from non-human primates or piglets in this regard.  There are cases where people slept in the same room with an Ebola victim, but didn't contract it.  I'm not aware of any cases of human to human transmission that didn't involve close contact.  In this paper, note that they showed pig to macaque transmission, but did not see macaque to macaque transmission.  Maybe something to do with snorting pigs??
 

Sci Rep. 2012;2:811. doi: 10.1038/srep00811. Epub 2012 Nov 15.
Transmission of Ebola virus from pigs to non-human primates.
Weingartl HM1, Embury-Hyatt C, Nfon C, Leung A, Smith G, Kobinger G.

Ebola viruses (EBOV) cause often fatal hemorrhagic fever in several species of simian primates including human. While fruit bats are considered natural reservoir, involvement of other species in EBOV transmission is unclear. In 2009, Reston-EBOV was the first EBOV detected in swine with indicated transmission to humans. In-contact transmission of Zaire-EBOV (ZEBOV) between pigs was demonstrated experimentally. Here we show ZEBOV transmission from pigs to cynomolgus macaques without direct contact. Interestingly, transmission between macaques in similar housing conditions was never observed. Piglets inoculated oro-nasally with ZEBOV were transferred to the room housing macaques in an open inaccessible cage system. All macaques became infected. Infectious virus was detected in oro-nasal swabs of piglets, and in blood, swabs, and tissues of macaques. This is the first report of experimental interspecies virus transmission, with the macaques also used as a human surrogate. Our finding may influence prevention and control measures during EBOV outbreaks.

PMID: 23155478

[RorschachRev]

Mind, I'm suggesting that before we rule out all airborne methods of transmission, we should examine how contagious a sneeze would be. Yes it is fluids based. I lived with an HIV positive guy as roommates for nearly a year and I wasn't HIV positive at the end. We had the same silverware, etc. HIV is also fluids based, but there is a big distinction between HIV and Ebola, and if I had been in the same situation with an Ebola infected person, I would have most definitely contracted Ebola. 

 

My personal stance is that instead of the "No Never!" or "Hysterical Panic!" we should try to calculate the likelihood of contagion in different situations - getting sneezed on is a contagion vector. That tells us what protective gear we should include and at what cost. If there is a 0.01% chance of infection by getting sneezed on by an Ebola infected person during Phase 3 of the infection, then we probably don't need to worry about it. I think the chances are closer to 20-80% of infection by sneeze depending mostly on what you do after you get sneezed on. 

 

" In only one known instance, during the 1967 Marburg outbreak, has viral persistence in semen led to virus transmission through sexual contact [33,114]."

The PubMed references are: 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ed?term=5815873

and

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ed?term=9893378

[Nemo888]

A nurse in Spain has contracted Ebola after only being in a patient room twice, once after he was dead. N95 is inadequate for a level 4 risk. With negligence in regards to safety there is no moral obligation to show up for work. Then things start spiraling out of control. If you close a single hospital in my city for decontamination we couldn't even treat the normally sick people.

http://mobile.nytime...?_r=0&referrer=

Edited by Nemo888, 07 October 2014 - 05:41 AM.

[Logic]

Cobalt Hexammine???????????????????
http://www.rexresear...cohex/cohex.htm

[RorschachRev]

He has humorous plans for a tesla coil that increases your telomeres too. 

 

The patents did some minor experiments with mice. Population unknown. Duration of test: 10 days maximum. Long term survival of mice? Unknown. Pubmed cytotoxicity reports? None. Maybe one of the pubmed articles includes it, but they didn't include common toxicity study terms. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....obalt Hexammine

 

Interesting patent quote: (ST-294 is cobalt hexammine)

[0371] In the Tacaribe newborn mouse model the mice appear to die of a neurological disease (indicated by hind quarter paralysis) and it is not known whether ST-294 can cross the blood brain barrier. Also the drug levels and half-life of this drug candidate given IP in newborn mice is not as good as oral dosing in rats so serum levels and compound getting to the brain may have compromised the ability to obtain complete protection in this model. The more appropriate animal models for hemorrhagic fever caused by arenaviruses are in guinea pigs and non-human primates where the virus replicates predominantly in the spleen, lymph nodes and bone marrow causing hemorrhagic diathesis. Guinea pig models are well established for Junín, Machupo, and Guanarito virus diseases, and represent the best small animal model for evaluation during preclinical studies.<26, 34 >Guinea pigs infected with pathogenic strains of Junín virus develop a fatal disease akin to human AHF.<37>

 

Unfortunately in some studies they mix the compound with a bunch of "known working" compounds. The in vitro experiments involve extremely high concentrations, while the in vivo mice experiments involve very low concentrations and no results after 10 days. I hope someone knew what they were doing when they did the tests, because they suggest they directly infected some mice with ebola. (Results seemed obscured)

[niner]

A nurse in Spain has contracted Ebola after only being in a patient room twice, once after he was dead. N95 is inadequate for a level 4 risk. With negligence in regards to safety there is no moral obligation to show up for work. Then things start spiraling out of control. If you close a single hospital in my city for decontamination we couldn't even treat the normally sick people.

I'd like to know more about the Spanish nurse, specifically what kinds of exposure and protective gear were involved.  FWIW, N95 is inadequate for all kinds of things.  I won't even use N95 for grinding concrete.  Is that what the Spanish nurse was using?

[APBT]

I'd like to know more about the Spanish nurse, specifically what kinds of exposure and protective gear were involved.  FWIW, N95 is inadequate for all kinds of things.  I won't even use N95 for grinding concrete.  Is that what the Spanish nurse was using?

 

 

See this article:  http://www.sfgate.co...die-5807308.php

 

And this as a follow-up:  http://online.wsj.co...case-1412759831

Edited by APBT, 08 October 2014 - 10:00 PM.

[RorschachRev]

A ton of articles say that she "may have touched her face" but this article says that she was *monitored* while removing her protective gear. 

http://www.theguardi...toms-quarantine

[Nemo888]

Now I see why Niner was shooting me down about wanting PAPR's and reverse air at work.If Ebola comes just stay home and lock the door dumb ass.

Sadly I will not have that luxury. Nor will my spouse, who has already been in a room caring for a query Ebola case.(phew, only malaria) N95 for late stage Ebola is criminally negligent IMO. I have no plans on becoming a widower.