279 replies to this topic

[Nemo888]

Best vaccine is VSV-EBOV from Canada. It was finished in 2012. Maryland was ready to trial it and a commercial manufacturer was already contracted. Our right wing nut jobs in parliament cut all the funding and it has sat in the freezer for the last two years.

[Mind]

If you want to blame political parties for the ebola scare, perhaps use the politics forum.

 

In the case of Pham, according to media reports, she was confirmed as having ebola, on Sunday, got a transfusion on Monday, was upgraded to good on Tuesday, and says she feels really well today. That is pretty amazing for the most super-ist, deadliest, terrifying, deadly virus the WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN!!!

 

Ok, I exaggerate, but with purpose. Everyone is freaking out as if this is the movie "outbreak" or "the stand". From what we have seen in the U.S. (outside of the outrageous careless treatment of Mr. Duncan), this is not the case. Ebola can be treated effectively.

 

 

[Nemo888]

Ya, you probably didn't watch people die from SARS or have friends shipped to Africa to fight this thing. You kind of sound like a privileged and selfish individual who doesn't give a shit because it doesn't effect him yet. You obviously never worked in health care.

Edited by Nemo888, 17 October 2014 - 09:42 PM.

[Ark]

I'm going to make a prediction, in 8 years ever country will have a Ebola center running and it will become a fact of life everywhere.

[Nemo888]

Vaccine will be up and running soon. Once it is mass produced the Ebola epidemic is over. Problem is the development was completed years ago. They never had the money for trials since there was no profit in making an Ebola vaccine. Now many lives will be lost and exponentially more money spent cleaning up the mess. All entirely preventable.

[Nemo888]

Obviously judging by how Texas was bungled more panic is currently needed. Health care teams need better equipment and to be trained on how to use it. Paramedics need better PPE and training including protocols for moving query Ebola patients. Waste disposal policies need to be formulated. Border personnel need equipment to read temperatures of passengers and regulations related to what countries are high risk. The vaccines have to be mass produced as well as the antiviral drugs for those already infected. There is still a lot to do before we can sit on our asses again.

[Ark]

It feels like our hubris is Ebolas greatest allie.

[Danail Bulgaria]

The diference between the politicians + the crowd and the medical people, maybe is because the medical peole know how fast an air born virus infection may spread, and how hard it is some times to be hold.

 

This is why the politicians and the crowd says "but there are only several cases. This is not epidemic" and the doctors buy protective suits and send the nurses to trat the ebola patients.

 

[Mind]

The transfusion treatment: Brantly provided blood for Pham. Usual mainstream media reports do not go into much detail. What part of the immune system were they hoping would help out Pham. The adaptive (seems unlikey), or the innate? Or is there something else I am missing?

 

Does anyone think this was the primary reason for Pham's quick recovery?

[Danail Bulgaria]

I already answered you that question. They use the blood plasma from someone from the 30% who survived. There are supposed to be effective antibodies against the ebola.

[Nemo888]

The transfusion treatment: Brantly provided blood for Pham. Usual mainstream media reports do not go into much detail. What part of the immune system were they hoping would help out Pham. The adaptive (seems unlikey), or the innate? Or is there something else I am missing?

 

Does anyone think this was the primary reason for Pham's quick recovery?

It was the primary reason. She did not have time to produce significant antibodies yet. It is likely serum containing antigens and antibodies to kick start her defense. Transfusions are much more dangerous than people realize. As a general rule a person can have one major transfusion in their lifetime. After that the risk of an immune reaction is so high it is only acceptable if there is an extreme risk to life. It is not something you would ever do for a flu.

 

* 800 vials of Canadian VSV-EBOV vaccine out  the door bitches! It can even stop the virus dead an entire day after infection. Thank God this is finally ramping up. The Kobinger vaccine means my friends all come home alive and my buddies at work don't die if they make a tiny mistake.

 

http://www.phac-aspc...ebov-fs-eng.php

Edited by Nemo888, 18 October 2014 - 03:59 PM.

[Mind]

 

The transfusion treatment: Brantly provided blood for Pham. Usual mainstream media reports do not go into much detail. What part of the immune system were they hoping would help out Pham. The adaptive (seems unlikey), or the innate? Or is there something else I am missing?

 

Does anyone think this was the primary reason for Pham's quick recovery?

It was the primary reason. She did not have time to produce significant antibodies yet. It is likely serum containing antigens and antibodies to kick start her defense. Transfusions are much more dangerous than people realize. As a general rule a person can have one major transfusion in their lifetime. After that the risk of an immune reaction is so high it is only acceptable if there is an extreme risk to life. It is not something you would ever do for a flu.

 

* 800 vials of Canadian VSV-EBOV vaccine out  the door bitches! It can even stop the virus dead an entire day after infection. Thank God this is finally ramping up. The Kobinger vaccine means my friends all come home alive and my buddies at work don't die if they make a tiny mistake.

 

http://www.phac-aspc...ebov-fs-eng.php

 

 

What would really be helpful in today's interconnected world is an open-as-possible reporting of the vaccine as it is being trialed in these initial stages.

[Mind]

Interesting the reaction in Belize - NO potentially ebola-infected person is going to step foot in their country: http://www.khou.com/...matic/17522091/

 

 

 

Belize's 7 News reports the Belize government refused a U.S. request Thursday to let the Dallas health care worker disembark in Belize so she could be flown home by air ambulance from a local airport.

 

[pleb]

Belize is not run by the govt. It's run by an English billionaire. When he shouts s--t the govt jump on the shovel.

[PWAIN]

I don't understand how this is not spreading to neighbouring countries??? I would have expected this to spread all around Africa quite quickly. Perhaps it can e contained quite easily. Perhaps these countries are good in that there is not much international travel from them.

[Ark]

I don't understand how this is not spreading to neighbouring countries??? I would have expected this to spread all around Africa quite quickly. Perhaps it can e contained quite easily. Perhaps these countries are good in that there is not much international travel from them.

ether that or the information of the spread has been suppressed in order to prevent chaos. Just recently the last areas of Seirra Leon reported Ebola cases. Let's see what happens a month from now.

[Nemo888]

[Img]http://www.cdc.gov/v...obile=nocontent[\img] It is starting to make it's way into Ivory Coast. If it does the price of cocoa should shoot up.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Now is the time to buy several tons of cocoa

[Ark]

http://news.sciencem...re-there-really

[Ark]

http://www.theblaze....ks-about-ebola/

[Danail Bulgaria]

http://www.theblaze....ks-about-ebola/

 

Citing from your link: 

 

 

"

How do you get the Ebola virus?

 

Direct contact with: 

 

1 Bodily fluids of a person who is sick with or has dies from Ebola (blood, vomit, pee, poop, sweat, semen, spit, other fluids)

 

2 Objects contaminated with the virus (needles, medical equipment)

 

3 Infected animals (by contact with blood or fluids or infected meat)

"

 

This means, that the Ebola is transmited by all the possible ways, for which the microbes are being transmited. 

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

Ebola is a veryy interesting virus, it's an ARN virus, wich mean he is most likely to mutate every time he goes infect someone else (copy himself actually). Every time this happen, 1 or 2 mutations are made, most often its very minor mutation (fortunately or not), but the more he infect people the more he can mutate in a stronger form.. Or actually even the opposite. Im not a virus specialist, but im really wondering how much is smart such a virus ? is he smart enough to mutate in a more agressiv form (increase rate of death, increase days to kill someone to allow him to infect more people etc) or can he destroy actually himself ? Im not sure its always pure chance and im not sure a vaccin which works for a strain is effective for a far other strain.

 

any specialist ?

[Danail Bulgaria]

I am not a virusologist also, but what you are talking about has been researched in the evolutionary biology. What will happen in brief, is that: if the Ebola virus is so changable, it will evolve in order to adopt the environment, e.g. it will evolve in such a way, that not to be affected from drugs or from the immune system, by selecting the most sustainable mutations, and leaving the other mutations to be destroyed. Something simmilar happens today with the usual bacteria.

 

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

very interesting, but if we take this into consideration, what can be the change in the death rate for exemple ? We see variation between 50 and 90% death by case

[Danail Bulgaria]

The death rate depends on many factors, and it happens so, that you can't calculate it in advance. It depends not only from the microbe, but from the immune system, the genetic particularities of the infected, that may the virus easier or more difficult to make damage, etc. Viruses can be defeated. The deadliest pox for example no longer exist in the environment. Only the small pox and the large pox remained. But waiting them to become harmles seems not to be the good strategy.

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

Yes I understand that part, there is always external variable, but if we consider a large number of infected, we can have an average death rate wich can be relevant to take into account. I mean if we speak only in terms of the devlopment you was speaking about, the virus is more willing to be agressiv to the organism (more willing to bring to death) or its can be the opposite (something not dangerous but who live longer in the body ? since he can mutate to have a longer incubating period in order to be more transmited, it can be weaker and then less death.

 

by the way, the virus is more contagious than before, he is far more present in both blood serum and urine of infected people, i think around 10 times more than what was the case in 70s. He improves his effectivness to be transmited, im sure using the same way of transmission however (i do not believe in the airborne theory)

[PWAIN]

Viruses do not want to kill their host. That is just an unfortunate side effect of massive growth and self defence. If it can find a way to coexist with its host, it will live longer and spread more.
I read the other day that none of the known viruses that affect humans has ever been known to change to become airborne transmission. Sure there are some that already are but the change hasn't happened in those that don't have this capability already. This shows that mutation is unlikely to result in this happening.

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

yes but since ebola cant be in someone without "balancing" with the immune system (he win or he die), i dont see how it could be different. Interesting however..

 

actually Pwain, no virus studied until today have changed their method of transmission, and we are not speaking only about airborne. Some virus such as flu have been made airborne in lab, but then became close to 0% agressiv when it comes to health damage. The virus structure was too much changed. For ebola since it's an ARN one, its much more different, lets see what mother nature can do. For now, vitamin C and selenium seems good natural quandidate to prevent it.

[Danail Bulgaria]

The mother nature allows everything to evolve. If the virus evolves fast, it is a danger.

 

The best thing will be vaccine and effective treatment. Vitamin C and selenium rise your immune system, but they will not be enough. 

[shifter]

So what about Ebola is ultimately responsible for killing the people?

 

From what I read Ebola does a few things.

 

Dehydration? Can be treated either drinking large volumes of saline (or introduced intravenously)

 

Internal/External bleeding? Could this be remedied or helped by taking drugs or foods that thicken the blood? I assume things like asprin or fish oil or warfarin (if you needed to take it) would be counter productive. Internal/External bleeding also has a disatrous affect on blood pressure but does this happen from acute dehydration or the virus attacking the red blood cells and organs and nothing to do with being dehyrated

 

Kidney/Liver failure? Is the organ failures caused by loss of blood, blood pressure and dehydration? Or the virus actively attacking the organs. If someone who contracts Ebola from the moment the symptoms appear stays totally hydrated, will he/she have to deal with this problem?

 

 

Diarrhea kills nearly a million people each year, but I'd almost be certain to live because I can continue to drink clean water/saline and get treatment.

 

Ebola causes severe and acute dehydration through vomiting and diarrhea. Not keeping food down means no energy either so we are fighting an illness and could be hypoglycemic at the same time and given we are 70% water, if we don't replace the fluids lost, we are sure to die very quickly. Our bodies simply do not have the time to beat it if nothing is done. The way that Ebola works it doesn't give the people much time (or the stomach) to replace the fluids. It's not just water we lose but electrolytes.

 

Apparantly in Nigeria (they claim to have beaten it) the mortality was a bit lower and one nurse who was affected (and recovered) said she drank around 5L a day of a salt/sugar water solution. It tasted awful but she knew she had to if she was to beat it.

 

So I guess if the ultimate thing that killed people with Ebola was dehyration, then people in the 1st world do not have AS much to worry about (but still ultimately worry of course.... Why would you want that hideous virus that can and will kill people on your doorstep).

 

So is dehydration the main, ultimate cause of death... Is dehydration the beginning of a cascade of symptoms (such as bleeding and then organ failure) that if you leave it too long, your body proceeds to the next step such as bleeding and your chances become slim. But if you dont let your body get to that step and stay hydrated from the beginning, will your body have time to recover?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by shifter, 22 October 2014 - 03:34 AM.