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TAGsync: Operation and Discussion

tagsync theta alpha gamma synchrony training neurofeedback operation discussion

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#661 nfb sean

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 05:11 PM

Hello, thank you all for your incredibly valuable contributions in this thread. I plan on purchasing a setup for TAGsync now.

 

Is there anyone with a used Q-wiz, or anything pertaining to a TAGsync setup, that would like to sell? I am located in California.


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#662 patches2801

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 02:20 PM

Hey guys thank you all for your responses and the feedback, does anyone have any tips on electrode placement. I am not sure if I am getting a good connection when I attach the electrodes to fz,pz and cz. Usually f7-f8-t5-t6 will light up green on my q-wiz and fp1-fp2-o1-o2. The one that would be logical to me to light up would be fz-pz-cz-oz but that usually just flickers green. I'm also getting a lot of red on the screen with the blue background...is this ok? I will try to take a screenshot when I do a session today to show what I mean. It is hard to gauge what the bandpass filter 1 and 2 should be correctly set at for me. How do I tell an 80/20 ratio for example. I feel like during a typical session I will hear a lot of the ringing bell noise, I would say every few seconds then when I am about 5-10 minutes in it will quiet down a bit with the occasional dull beep (pink noise?) once every couple of minutes. I usually try to practice anapanasati and just concentrate on my breathing during my training.

 

The first few times I did TAGX2 I felt very talkative and it was great, I am not sure if it was placebo or not but it was an awesome side affect as I am also striving to be more extroverted. I am usually quiet and withdrawn as this is one of the things I am trying to fix along with my moderate ADD and terrible memory.



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#663 patches2801

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 05:52 PM

This is how my TAGx2 is currently set up

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#664 Strelok

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 10:10 PM

I am finished using my Q-Wiz.  I got the benefits from it that I was seeking, and while I would like to continue using it occasionally, I have less free time nowadays and would rather someone else be using it productively.  To that end, I have one for sale with Bioexplorer and all the accessories you need to get started.  PM me if interested.


Edited by Strelok, 20 July 2016 - 10:11 PM.


#665 nfb sean

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 11:30 PM

VastEmptiness, how has your work been going on the design(s) you were making?

 

If you have made a good one, I'd be very happy to purchase a copy from you :) 

 

 



#666 DRN2001

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 04:40 AM

G'day. New guy here.  Can people give me their opinions as to whether or not they believe it is worthwhile getting a QEEG before starting self administered TAG Sync?  Douglas Dailey seems to think they're over sold from what I understand...

Thanks!



#667 Bobity

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 07:46 AM

@DRN2001 - The problem with QEEG on its own is it does not give you much help on what training you need to do - unless you already know how to interpret QEEG and also know how/what/where to train to correct imbalances.  

 

When I started I felt a huge sense of overwhelm and looked around and decided to get the Brain-Trainer TLC7 app and the Brain-Trainer designs and to do some of the BT training - BT post a lot of free stuff and their paid for courses are great too.  Pete Van Deusen is fab at explaining stuff see his blog,  which I believe will become a book : 

 

https://brain-traine...campaign=buffer

 

I still do a mix of BT,  TAGsync and other stuff

 

Stick at it - you won't be disappointed :)

 

001



#668 DRN2001

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 09:24 AM

@DRN2001 - The problem with QEEG on its own is it does not give you much help on what training you need to do - unless you already know how to interpret QEEG and also know how/what/where to train to correct imbalances.  

 

When I started I felt a huge sense of overwhelm and looked around and decided to get the Brain-Trainer TLC7 app and the Brain-Trainer designs and to do some of the BT training - BT post a lot of free stuff and their paid for courses are great too.  Pete Van Deusen is fab at explaining stuff see his blog,  which I believe will become a book : 

 

https://brain-traine...campaign=buffer

 

I still do a mix of BT,  TAGsync and other stuff

 

Stick at it - you won't be disappointed :)

 

001

 

Thanks, Bobity.

I live in country New South Wales and my nearest neurofeedback practitioner is a 6 hour drive - I'm currently in Brisbane where I have access to someone who will do the QEEG, and that's why I thought I might do it. This clinician hasn't over sold it to me, but said it probably would show gross abnormalities in my brain.  

I'm still trying to get my head around TAG Sync (no pun intended) but from what I understand, I would "train" certain areas of my brain regardless of what the QEEG may or may not show?  Am I right in thinking that?

As for the Brain Trainer TLC7 I'm not familiar with it - is that something that one can add to TAG Sync or is it a separate system - amplifier, etc.?



#669 DRN2001

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 12:11 AM

@DRN2001 - The problem with QEEG on its own is it does not give you much help on what training you need to do - unless you already know how to interpret QEEG and also know how/what/where to train to correct imbalances.  

 

When I started I felt a huge sense of overwhelm and looked around and decided to get the Brain-Trainer TLC7 app and the Brain-Trainer designs and to do some of the BT training - BT post a lot of free stuff and their paid for courses are great too.  Pete Van Deusen is fab at explaining stuff see his blog,  which I believe will become a book : 

 

https://brain-traine...campaign=buffer

 

I still do a mix of BT,  TAGsync and other stuff

 

Stick at it - you won't be disappointed :)

 

001

Thanks, Bobity.

I have checked out BT and now I remember having stumbled upon their website about a year ago when I first got interested in NFB - lots of great stuff there especially Peter's blog; I'm a bit disappointed I basically forgot about them as I'd decided their system is the one I wanted to try.  They sort of got lost in the mix when I was trying to sort out all the different flavours - Neuroptimal, Brainpain, LENS, etc. - of NFB.  I'm now wondering if I should add their software to the TAG system I've ordered. Did you 'add' their software to your existing system?  



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#670 DRN2001

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 11:21 PM

Where's everyone gone...?



#671 Autumn Knight

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 03:29 AM

They all must be off living amazing neurofeedback-enhanced lives, leaving us newbies to fend for ourselves. 

I really want a TAGsync system and am ready to buy one, but I'm pretty confused on how to set it up. I guess I'll be winging it hoping I get the same results as OpaqueMind. 

 

 



#672 DRN2001

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 04:39 AM

They all must be off living amazing neurofeedback-enhanced lives, leaving us newbies to fend for ourselves. 

I really want a TAGsync system and am ready to buy one, but I'm pretty confused on how to set it up. I guess I'll be winging it hoping I get the same results as OpaqueMind. 

 

 

You may want to consider Brain Trainer; they sell complete packages that are more pricey than TAG Sync, but you can order a 'piece meal' system comparable to TAG Sync for about the same cost and I think you'll get going a lot quicker.   If you read through this entire discussion, you'll note that some (including the person who started this discussion) found that TAG Sync - although great - probably wasn't the best way to start their NFB experience.  I ordered TAG Sync, but now I've also ordered BT's software and a few accessories (the 10-20 cap) because I'm a bit lost and think BT will be a bit easier to get started with.  You can also get a training plan for NFB tailored to your brain for, I think, $100 (if you're running their BT software).

 

I have no doubt Douglas Dailey (TAG Sync) is very genuine and committed to helping people (had a great 1 hour conversation with him via long distance before buying), but I also think he assumes one has a certain working knowledge of NFB already - as well as life the universe and everything!  (I'm hoping that NFB will increase my cognitive skills enough that I can understand half of what Douglas writes and talks about!  Maybe you're smarter than I am, but I can't get myself to read half the TAG Sync stuff, it's just a little too esoteric for me at this point.)

 

I also had a great conversation with Peter Van Deusen and I think he's a little more accessible because he seems to understand better than Douglas how daunting NFB can be to a beginner; there's also a lot of great info/education on his website (check out his blog).

 

Either way, the thing I like about Dailey and Van Deusen is I feel they're doing this because they love NFB, have seen it's potential, and want to share that with people; unlike a lot of the other high profile guys that seem to see NFB as just a money making exercise ($10,000 for a LENS?!).



#673 Autumn Knight

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 03:29 PM

 

They all must be off living amazing neurofeedback-enhanced lives, leaving us newbies to fend for ourselves. 

I really want a TAGsync system and am ready to buy one, but I'm pretty confused on how to set it up. I guess I'll be winging it hoping I get the same results as OpaqueMind. 

 

 

You may want to consider Brain Trainer; they sell complete packages that are more pricey than TAG Sync, but you can order a 'piece meal' system comparable to TAG Sync for about the same cost and I think you'll get going a lot quicker.   If you read through this entire discussion, you'll note that some (including the person who started this discussion) found that TAG Sync - although great - probably wasn't the best way to start their NFB experience.  I ordered TAG Sync, but now I've also ordered BT's software and a few accessories (the 10-20 cap) because I'm a bit lost and think BT will be a bit easier to get started with.  You can also get a training plan for NFB tailored to your brain for, I think, $100 (if you're running their BT software).

 

I have no doubt Douglas Dailey (TAG Sync) is very genuine and committed to helping people (had a great 1 hour conversation with him via long distance before buying), but I also think he assumes one has a certain working knowledge of NFB already - as well as life the universe and everything!  (I'm hoping that NFB will increase my cognitive skills enough that I can understand half of what Douglas writes and talks about!  Maybe you're smarter than I am, but I can't get myself to read half the TAG Sync stuff, it's just a little too esoteric for me at this point.)

 

I also had a great conversation with Peter Van Deusen and I think he's a little more accessible because he seems to understand better than Douglas how daunting NFB can be to a beginner; there's also a lot of great info/education on his website (check out his blog).

 

Either way, the thing I like about Dailey and Van Deusen is I feel they're doing this because they love NFB, have seen it's potential, and want to share that with people; unlike a lot of the other high profile guys that seem to see NFB as just a money making exercise ($10,000 for a LENS?!).

 

 

Okay, I'll keep that in mind. It would just be great to mimic the exact results Opaque got, so I was gonna do everything he did exactly step by step. But the TAGsync instructions are too much for me, and I am most certainly not smarter than you, haha, i don't know how Opaque figured all that stuff out when he was in the state he was in before training. 



#674 Slipstream

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 03:43 PM

 

 

Okay, I'll keep that in mind. It would just be great to mimic the exact results Opaque got, so I was gonna do everything he did exactly step by step. But the TAGsync instructions are too much for me, and I am most certainly not smarter than you, haha, i don't know how Opaque figured all that stuff out when he was in the state he was in before training. 

 

 

 

 

Everyone comes to NFB with a unique brain and training it with a one-size-fits-all protocol will not guarantee you get the same results as him, even if you followed exactly the same path.

 

I personally did plenty of TAG-Sync and while I got some nice improvements, I did not get the sort of benefits OM talks about, and I also got a couple of unusual side effects.

 

Overall I would say my training was "worth it, but not transformative".   

 

My point is, don't assume you're likely to get the same gains as you read about in the evangelical success stories. Statistically it's unlikely. Remember, there's a selection bias for posting - the people who got nothing out of the training tend to quickly lose interest, stop posting, and disappear.

 

Chances are you'll get something out of it, but don't bank on transformative results. 


Edited by Slipstream, 12 August 2016 - 03:49 PM.


#675 thebrainstore

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 04:56 PM

We were all newbies at some point and had nobody to fend for us and I think it's fair to say that the type of training being experimented with by people such as Opaque and myself is very much a research frontier, we are using ourselves literally as guinea pigs. I have had brain swelling, massive headaches, unusual states of consciousness and a sore neck from staring at the screen for upto 8 hours per day.

 

Slipstream is also right in that every brain is different and here we have just posted our experiences, your mileage will definitely vary. Neurofeedback transformed my brain in a very short space of time, but it was in a very bad way as I had PTSD so plenty of room for improvement. In early January I was asking newbie questions and am now enjoying a new life largely free from anxiety and over thinking. I have stopped training for the time being, but will be going back to it with more of a peak performance approach come the end of the year.

 

This technology is still being developed by privateers mostly, and I don't think it will become mainstream with instructions offering consistent results for some time yet. Brain Trainer is a great place to start. I probably attribute more of my initial success to that than any of the other options. TAGSync takes time and you need to have a good meditation attitude in order to get the best from it. It will encourage the brain to self organise and produces deep states of samatha etc. but knowing where your own brain is out of balance and selecting a specific protocol to address each issue seems more productive, at least in the beginning.

 

I feel that the hardest part of getting started with self care neurofeedback is knowing which protocol and location to use, and until you gather a good working knowledge of the potential of this technology, something like the TLC Autoplan has a value which cannot be overstated.


Edited by spektrolyte, 12 August 2016 - 05:01 PM.


#676 thebrainstore

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 05:10 PM

To clear up a couple of the questions above, TAGSync, Brain Trainer and various other experimental protocols all run on MS Windows using the BioExplorer platform and you can use the same amp for any of them. Either a Pocket Neurobics Q-Wiz or Neurobit Optima seem to be the best bet although the Neurobit definitely gives a better signal with its higher sampling rates. The Q-Wiz allows the use of a cap, and there are mixed opinions on the necessity of that. Locating electrode sites gets easier with practice, I don't refer to a diagram at all any more.

 

You can get an Optima, software and accessories from www.thebrainstore.eu (shameless plug) with backup support and advice to get you started (although it's summer here and I have a lot of things to do outside before the weather gets crap and therefore am not in front of the PC 12 hours a day like I have been earlier in the year).

 

Where's everyone gone? Well it is summertime in Europe....

 

There have been some issues with importing the QWiz into Europe due to electrical safety conformity but I have had no issues sending Optimas to a variety of destinations.


Edited by spektrolyte, 12 August 2016 - 05:11 PM.


#677 Autumn Knight

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 10:53 PM

 

 

 

Okay, I'll keep that in mind. It would just be great to mimic the exact results Opaque got, so I was gonna do everything he did exactly step by step. But the TAGsync instructions are too much for me, and I am most certainly not smarter than you, haha, i don't know how Opaque figured all that stuff out when he was in the state he was in before training. 

 

 

 

 

Everyone comes to NFB with a unique brain and training it with a one-size-fits-all protocol will not guarantee you get the same results as him, even if you followed exactly the same path.

 

I personally did plenty of TAG-Sync and while I got some nice improvements, I did not get the sort of benefits OM talks about, and I also got a couple of unusual side effects.

 

Overall I would say my training was "worth it, but not transformative".   

 

My point is, don't assume you're likely to get the same gains as you read about in the evangelical success stories. Statistically it's unlikely. Remember, there's a selection bias for posting - the people who got nothing out of the training tend to quickly lose interest, stop posting, and disappear.

 

Chances are you'll get something out of it, but don't bank on transformative results. 

 

The reason I wanted to follow the same path is because we have pretty much the same past. Maybe what he did wouldn't work for someone who was already pretty healthy, but it's the only thing that I've seen work for problems like he and I have had. 

I know it doesn't work for some people, but this seems like my only shot. 



#678 Autumn Knight

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 10:58 PM

We were all newbies at some point and had nobody to fend for us and I think it's fair to say that the type of training being experimented with by people such as Opaque and myself is very much a research frontier, we are using ourselves literally as guinea pigs. I have had brain swelling, massive headaches, unusual states of consciousness and a sore neck from staring at the screen for upto 8 hours per day.

 

Slipstream is also right in that every brain is different and here we have just posted our experiences, your mileage will definitely vary. Neurofeedback transformed my brain in a very short space of time, but it was in a very bad way as I had PTSD so plenty of room for improvement. In early January I was asking newbie questions and am now enjoying a new life largely free from anxiety and over thinking. I have stopped training for the time being, but will be going back to it with more of a peak performance approach come the end of the year.

 

This technology is still being developed by privateers mostly, and I don't think it will become mainstream with instructions offering consistent results for some time yet. Brain Trainer is a great place to start. I probably attribute more of my initial success to that than any of the other options. TAGSync takes time and you need to have a good meditation attitude in order to get the best from it. It will encourage the brain to self organise and produces deep states of samatha etc. but knowing where your own brain is out of balance and selecting a specific protocol to address each issue seems more productive, at least in the beginning.

 

I feel that the hardest part of getting started with self care neurofeedback is knowing which protocol and location to use, and until you gather a good working knowledge of the potential of this technology, something like the TLC Autoplan has a value which cannot be overstated.

 

Yeah I know no one is entitled to help me or anyone but someone people did get help so I figured I might as well ask and see what happens. I've looked through all these threads before, but I forget what I learn and don't understand things too well. 

I have a chemical brain injury and could stand a lot, a lot, of improvement. Did you see any improvement in cognitive ability, i.e. short/long term memory, being able to figure things out, etc? 

TLC Autoplan. Okay. 

So you're saying only someone who knows how to meditate already can use TAGsync? 



#679 thebrainstore

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 11:43 PM

 

 


Yeah I know no one is entitled to help me or anyone but someone people did get help so I figured I might as well ask and see what happens. I've looked through all these threads before, but I forget what I learn and don't understand things too well.

 

You haven't actually asked any questions yet, and I answered as best I could the issues raised on this page.

 

I suffered years of child abuse in a broken home, grew up traumatised, had 3 serious head injuries and took drugs for 15 years. It culminated in post traumatic stress disorder where my prefrontal cortex shut down and i became stupid and lifeless. I wasn't able to diagnose what was wrong with myself so I used EEG data to determine what the problems were and took things one step at a time. Gradually things got better and better and as my cognitive abilities improved i was able to research wider and in more detail, eventually bringing my life back under control.

 

"A chemical brain injury" is just the surface, as it is extremely unlikely that you have one single condition and therefore there isn't going to be one single fix. What drove you to take drugs in the first place? Have you ever had a concussion? Does your diet promote neurogenesis or inhibit it? Do you exercise regularly and have regular close emotional contact? All of these things can affect brain health and therefore cognitive ability.

 

I see neurofeedback as the keystone of a wider lifestyle regime. Doing neurofeedback without everything else addressed first is not going to be productive. You may need to change your lifestyle and your attitude, and work hard to understand your own condition and how you can make use of the resources available. Neurofeedback will accelerate your healing process once you build a solid foundation in other areas, but there is nobody who can tell you how to solve your individual problems just using an EEG amp. The value in this process comes when you work it out for yourself because that is more empowering than anything else.

 


 

 

So you're saying only someone who knows how to meditate already can use TAGsync? 

 

 

No, I said "TAGSync takes time and you need to have a good meditation attitude in order to get the best from it."

 

Before losing my mental faculties and coming to biohacking and neurofeedback as a solution I had several years experience of consciousness exploration via Vipassana mediation in the Buddhist tradition. This grounding enabled me to make significant progress in a short space of time and get consistent effects from TAGSync, but having researched and tried various types of feedback I do not use TAGSync specifically any longer. The Brain Trainer plan and other types of synchrony training that are being researched seem to have greater value for fixing specific chronic issues.


Edited by spektrolyte, 12 August 2016 - 11:44 PM.


#680 Autumn Knight

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 12:40 AM

 

 

 


Yeah I know no one is entitled to help me or anyone but someone people did get help so I figured I might as well ask and see what happens. I've looked through all these threads before, but I forget what I learn and don't understand things too well.

 

You haven't actually asked any questions yet, and I answered as best I could the issues raised on this page.

 

I suffered years of child abuse in a broken home, grew up traumatised, had 3 serious head injuries and took drugs for 15 years. It culminated in post traumatic stress disorder where my prefrontal cortex shut down and i became stupid and lifeless. I wasn't able to diagnose what was wrong with myself so I used EEG data to determine what the problems were and took things one step at a time. Gradually things got better and better and as my cognitive abilities improved i was able to research wider and in more detail, eventually bringing my life back under control.

 

"A chemical brain injury" is just the surface, as it is extremely unlikely that you have one single condition and therefore there isn't going to be one single fix. What drove you to take drugs in the first place? Have you ever had a concussion? Does your diet promote neurogenesis or inhibit it? Do you exercise regularly and have regular close emotional contact? All of these things can affect brain health and therefore cognitive ability.

 

I see neurofeedback as the keystone of a wider lifestyle regime. Doing neurofeedback without everything else addressed first is not going to be productive. You may need to change your lifestyle and your attitude, and work hard to understand your own condition and how you can make use of the resources available. Neurofeedback will accelerate your healing process once you build a solid foundation in other areas, but there is nobody who can tell you how to solve your individual problems just using an EEG amp. The value in this process comes when you work it out for yourself because that is more empowering than anything else.

 


 

 

So you're saying only someone who knows how to meditate already can use TAGsync? 

 

 

No, I said "TAGSync takes time and you need to have a good meditation attitude in order to get the best from it."

 

Before losing my mental faculties and coming to biohacking and neurofeedback as a solution I had several years experience of consciousness exploration via Vipassana mediation in the Buddhist tradition. This grounding enabled me to make significant progress in a short space of time and get consistent effects from TAGSync, but having researched and tried various types of feedback I do not use TAGSync specifically any longer. The Brain Trainer plan and other types of synchrony training that are being researched seem to have greater value for fixing specific chronic issues.

 

 

 

Oh, I asked the OP for help a couple times and I asked something a while back here and no one replied. Thank for your replies and willingness to help. 

You took drugs for 15 years? Wow.. what drugs? 

Yeah, people tell me it takes a lot of little things to get where you want to be and no one solution is a panacea. But I dunno.. I've tried lots of things, and it's true, everything helps a little, mostly time, but it's not enough, y'know? Hope will give way to something that really works eventually. With the EEG, you determined you prefrontal cortex shut down? 

I don't know why I took drugs. Just crazy I guess. Really impulsive. The end result was completely destroyed ability to speak and form sentences and thoughts. Can't make emotional connections with people or talk to them in person. The Internet is okay for it, but it's kinda all there is. 

My diet is good. Don't think I've had a concussion. I exercise regularly. 

I more just wanted some help setting up the TAGsync system. It's super confusing; like I was wondering if someone would Skype with me for an hour and show me where stuff goes, lol. But it's okay it's not a huge deal.. as for meditation attitude, I don't have a bad attitude towards meditation or anything, so I think I would be okay with it? Then again, I am pretty sold by OpaqueMind's experience. Maybe I'm just being impulsive again. 



#681 Autumn Knight

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 01:02 AM

--


Edited by Autumn Knight, 13 August 2016 - 01:03 AM.


#682 Autumn Knight

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 01:02 AM

I do have to say finding people who have had the same experience as me and who are trying to help themselves has been freakin' amazing. If anything has really helped, it's that. It's inspiring to know others have been in the same dark hole and climbed out and became different people. 


Edited by Autumn Knight, 13 August 2016 - 01:03 AM.

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#683 Slipstream

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 06:16 PM

Have you tried any easier, simpler, cheaper solutions first?

 

There are likely some "easy wins" you could get with supplements, simple brain training games, and simpler NFB protocols.

 

I'm getting some nice gains from dual-n-back - specifically EQMindware, which is based on the "Emotional dual N-back" studies that show improved emotional regulation as well as executive function. 

 

Software is at http://www.eqmindware.com and costs 30 bucks. Try it for a week, it's awesome.

 

Also, for me paleo diet + adaptogenic herbs (rhodiola, ashwagandha, gotu kola) was transformative for a baseline of stable energy, concentration, stress tolelance. 

 

These are cheap, easy wins with little/no downsides - contrast that to NFB, which is expensive and high-downside if done incorrectly! 

 

HEG is another option, and considerably easier than NFB.

 

Beyond that, if you go with NFB then the BT Autoplan is a wise move.  Also consider simple, proven protocols like SMR and peak-alpha-frequency training for well-being and cognition. In this very thread, OM mentions the benefits of fixing deficits with those protocols before using TAG.

 

My point is - try the easy, low-risk stuff first before jumping in the deep end. OM also did this - optimizing low-inflammation diet, supplements before trying NFB. Look after yourself and only go "complicated, higher-risk" once you've grabbed all the benefits of the low-hanging fruit.


Edited by Slipstream, 14 August 2016 - 06:22 PM.


#684 Autumn Knight

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 06:36 PM

Have you tried any easier, simpler, cheaper solutions first?

 

There are likely some "easy wins" you could get with supplements, simple brain training games, and simpler NFB protocols.

 

I'm getting some nice gains from dual-n-back - specifically EQMindware, which is based on the "Emotional dual N-back" studies that show improved emotional regulation as well as executive function. 

 

Software is at http://www.eqmindware.com and costs 30 bucks. Try it for a week, it's awesome.

 

Also, for me paleo diet + adaptogenic herbs (rhodiola, ashwagandha, gotu kola) was transformative for a baseline of stable energy, concentration, stress tolelance. 

 

These are cheap, easy wins with little/no downsides - contrast that to NFB, which is expensive and high-downside if done incorrectly! 

 

HEG is another option, and considerably easier than NFB.

 

Beyond that, if you go with NFB then the BT Autoplan is a wise move.  Also consider simple, proven protocols like SMR and peak-alpha-frequency training for well-being and cognition. In this very thread, OM mentions the benefits of fixing deficits with those protocols before using TAG.

 

My point is - try the easy, low-risk stuff first before jumping in the deep end. OM also did this - optimizing low-inflammation diet, supplements before trying NFB. Look after yourself and only go "complicated, higher-risk" once you've grabbed all the benefits of the low-hanging fruit.

I've tried several Nootropics; they pretty much do nothing for me. These include Piracetam, Noopept and Tianeptine. I have NSI on order right now, but I don't have high hopes for it. I'm also trying TULIP. Other methods I've employed in the past range from fasting (which was moderately effective) to eating psilocybin mushrooms (though I can't say that was inexpensive) to meditation to speech therapy. All of it has gotten me to a point where I can speak and form sentences okay, still not great, and the state of my cognition remains vastly below par. All of that isn't even 25% of what I've done trying to fix things. I won't even get started on supplements. 

I do Image Streaming and memory training, but they don't seem to help my general cognition very much. Actually, Image Streaming might, but I haven't been doing it for long enough to be able to tell a real difference. 

I'll try dual N-back. It just seems like, after all this, I'm never going to be the same, so after all these years, I'm somewhat giving up. Not trying to get sympathy, it just is what it is. 

See, I thought he did the alpha frequency training with TAG. Gotta read through again. 

Thanks for the tips. So far the best diet I've been on is just eating healthy and eating what I feel like I need. It has been as transformative as any other, only it feels natural. 


Edited by Autumn Knight, 14 August 2016 - 06:37 PM.


#685 Slipstream

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 06:46 PM

Cool. You will be able to get back there, maybe even surpass it - you just need to find the tools that will give you the next improvements. They're out there for sure. 

 

Yeah regarding peak-alpha-frequency and SMR in this thread, that all refers to simple 1-channel amplitude training (e.g. just raising your levels), whereas TAG is more complex 2-channel synchrony training.

 

The NFB package "NeurOptimal" claims some good results with brain injury if I remember correctly. It is VERY easy to use, and one-size-fits-all  - however it is super expensive ~ $5000.  Most people seem to plateau after 20-25 sessions.  I bought one, got some gains from it then sold it on though, there is good demand for 2nd hand personal systems.  Better to just see a trainer for 25 sessions most likely.

 

Yeah definitely give N-back a go, verbal fluency is one of the improvements people notice.  It's quite unique training.give it a least a week of training when you're fresh, e.g. in the morning.

 

Where are you based?  If possible I'd suggest you see a NFB practitioner. A good one should be able to help you a LOT.

 

If you have the cash you might consider doing an intensive week at a good NFB clinic, e.g. Paul Swingle in Vancouver - they really fix people up, sorting out all kinds of stubborn and seemingly untreatable cognitive issues.

 

You have many options, and something will get you there. Just a matter of trial and error and having the resources.


Edited by Slipstream, 14 August 2016 - 06:49 PM.


#686 Autumn Knight

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 07:31 PM

I'm in Colorado Springs. It seems like one of the reasons OM got such amazing results is because he did everything himself, so I was banking on that. It makes sense; you're the only person who knows exactly what is wrong and what procedures feel the best. But for purposes of gaining some expertise on NFB systems, professonal sessions are a good suggestion, and if I can find one of those very high quality practitioners you speak of where I live, I'm all for it. I have enough money for some sessions, but not to go to Vancouver, hah. For the most part I've heard going to a NFB practitioner is an expensive hit and miss, mostly miss. 

Resources are limited, so I've gotta make sure my trial and error choices are good ones.

 

 



#687 Slipstream

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 09:24 PM

Gisburne and Harr are in Colorado and they're doing amazing work with NFB for neurodegenerative disorders. Their complete "Program" is super expensive but they are experienced NFB practitioners and might be able to offer you cognitive performance work:

http://theconnectedself.com/

Or they may be able to refer you to someone good nearby.

 

In my experience it is hit and miss yes.  Both DIY and with a practitioner. Everything I've tried regarding true self-improvement/change has been that way. Yeah definitely hear you on making the shots count! Well, one cool thought is that this stuff will only get cheaper and more effective over time.

 

A home system for BT Autoplan /  SMR / peak-alpha-frequency (PAF) training may be a good bet. PAF training is what they use for "brain brightening" in the studies on cognitive performance / mitigating cognitive decline,  and it's easy to do.

 

You may also try Swingles audio harmonics - similar to binaural beats, but developed in-clinic for specific impacts on brainwaves. He developed some for concentration, focus, stress relief.  Very cheap and if you respond, it's immediately noticable:

http://www.soundhealthproducts.com/

 

Do try N-back too, I think you'll like it.

 

Just keep trying stuff man!  Sooner or later you'll crack the next layer of it and get a jump in performance. Keep going.  Just gotta find what does it for your particular brain.


Edited by Slipstream, 14 August 2016 - 09:33 PM.


#688 DRN2001

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 10:38 PM

Have you tried any easier, simpler, cheaper solutions first?

 

There are likely some "easy wins" you could get with supplements, simple brain training games, and simpler NFB protocols.

 

I'm getting some nice gains from dual-n-back - specifically EQMindware, which is based on the "Emotional dual N-back" studies that show improved emotional regulation as well as executive function. 

 

Software is at http://www.eqmindware.com and costs 30 bucks. Try it for a week, it's awesome.

 

Also, for me paleo diet + adaptogenic herbs (rhodiola, ashwagandha, gotu kola) was transformative for a baseline of stable energy, concentration, stress tolelance. 

 

These are cheap, easy wins with little/no downsides - contrast that to NFB, which is expensive and high-downside if done incorrectly! 

 

HEG is another option, and considerably easier than NFB.

 

Beyond that, if you go with NFB then the BT Autoplan is a wise move.  Also consider simple, proven protocols like SMR and peak-alpha-frequency training for well-being and cognition. In this very thread, OM mentions the benefits of fixing deficits with those protocols before using TAG.

 

My point is - try the easy, low-risk stuff first before jumping in the deep end. OM also did this - optimizing low-inflammation diet, supplements before trying NFB. Look after yourself and only go "complicated, higher-risk" once you've grabbed all the benefits of the low-hanging fruit.

 

I agree in that I think NFB has to be part of a 'holistic' program that looks at one's entire lifestyle, and diet plays a huge part of that; I've viewed a video of Richard Soutar describing a client that didn't make the sort of progress he thought she should and discontinued her treatment; he saw her for a follow up - I think - about a year later, and her QEEG was completely different.  The only change they could find was that she had been on a gluten free diet.

 

The problem I'm having with the NFB is that I thought with all the reading I've done, and completing what I now think was an unnecessary BCIA clinicians course (I'm a counsellor), I could sit down at the computer, open BioExplorer, and have some clue as to what to do next, but I don't!  Is there a basic guide to setting rewards and inhibits out there somewhere?



#689 Slipstream

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 10:53 PM

What kind of results do you want to achieve? Is it for yourself, or for others?

 

"Getting Started with Neurofeedback" by Demos is a good introductory book.

 

How you set rewards and inhibits depends on the design. For example, TAG-sync requires a certain inhibit pattern, described on page 1. Other designs are simpler. 

 

You shouldn't need to build designs from scratch - there are hundreds of pre-made designs available for bioexplorer. Brain Trainer designs and and Dailey's TAG-sync are the ones most discussed here. Best to use proven designs from experienced clinicians IMO.  The key of course is selecting the right design(s) for a particular brain and it's goals!  Many Brain Trainer designs are plug-and-play, no messing with rewards/inhibits required. 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Slipstream, 14 August 2016 - 11:01 PM.


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#690 Unlimited Mind

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 11:11 PM

To give my two cents, I thing the best route is the BrainTrainer's package with the auto plan.

I found that change with neurofeedback is like peeling an onion; you attack issues layer by layer.

This process can take months. That's why I recommend to get your own system. The brain needs time to readjust itself and you will need to take breaks to give your brain the chance to settle before continuing. This is similar to taking breaks from the gym to give your muscles some rest.

On my own experience, I found that I always have some benefit from neurofeedback. Sometimes it may not be what I was going/hoping for and I will have to readjust the protocols. Also sometimes you push yourself too much in one direction (or misconfigure the setup) and you don't feel great; you will find your own limits and learn to back off. You can fix this with other neurofeedback protocol or just rest from neurofeedback for a couple days.
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