707 replies to this topic

[VastEmptiness]

Activity we wish for:

 

 regular.PNG   496.39KB   6 downloads

 

This is how my beta spindles looked like:

 

 beta.PNG   552.02KB   4 downloads

 beta2.PNG   558.26KB   2 downloads

 

Might be different in other people. Those for me got along with anxiety attacks.

 

Can you guys post screenshots of said harmonics? I've heard the concepts but I've never encountered that i think. Btw, there can also be harmonics of artifact current afaik.

Edited by VastEmptiness, 19 April 2016 - 08:09 AM.

[Slipstream]

Thank you very much guys.

 

Crow -

 

That's reassuring.  I also don't find it correlates to any negative experience, and usually actually occurs most when I go deep into calm, emptiness, etc.

 

It only happens when I hit alpha-sync EC. If I set inhibits to levels similar to this doc, inhibits will play when I get into alpha-sync.  

 

If I leave the default TAG inhibit levels as they are, they don't play. 

 

VE -

 

Yeah I was worried, but according to DD, beta spindles are "paroxysmal fast activity" - they come in sudden short bursts. I think that's what you had on your early screenshots. I'm seeing a continuous thin bright line at 2x the alpha frequency, similar to the strong alpha sync line, but thinner and less intense - so I'm thinking it's different in kind.  He also says they're usually seen at 28-30hz in this document, whereas what I'm seeing is 20-24hz, and is always consistently 2x whatever the alpha-sync frequency is (which varies slightly depending on the 10-20 sites I choose).

 

Thank you for those screenshots! That does look more like what DD's talking about. I do get a bit of beta like that sometimes, which could be anxiety as you say, but this band seems like a very definite "shadow frequency" of the alpha-sync.  Brain-Trainer mention harmonics in the FAQ.

 

What's puzzling though is that it seems not everyone that trains EC gets this. Yet people are clearly getting strong alpha-sync, from your screenshots. I guess DD's clients don't get it because he trains eyes-open, and alpha just never goes that high.

 

Anyway thanks! I'll post up screenshots later when I'm on my NFB laptop.  For now though here's a link to a guy who noticed it a beta harmonic in EEG while meditating.

Edited by Slipstream, 19 April 2016 - 09:33 AM.

[Slipstream]

Good results with TAG sync after a month:

 

Emotional:

 

-Less "negative affect" - simply less intense negative emotion in my body

-Less physical tension - when I tense up it's less intense. My breathing feels smoother and more unhindered.

-Generally less "triggered" by events or interactions that would previously throw me off.

 

Cognitive:

 

- Lots of mini-realisations and "getting it" where I previously did not.

-I seem to be able to mull over issues more effectively. It's like my mind stays in the space between ideas more efficiently, and selects and assesses them with more finesse. I intuit my way to "the answer" better without "overthinking". Something like a finer cognitive control plus more creative flexibility.

-Reduced flood of thoughts and imagined future projections, particularly related to growing my business. I used to get so wrapped up in my own mind at times, going over the same old thought loops. It's improved (still more to go).  Now if I really sit down to address something, or let my mind sit with an issue, I'm more likely to make progress and come up with a fresh, useful re-frame or action to take.

-Less convoluted escape fantasies. Relish the thought of the "simple pleasures" more.

-Less concerned with what I imagine people think of me - just let it go more

 

---

 

Highly recommend this for anyone considering it.

 

----

 

I've stopped doing EC training as Douglas really keeps emphasising eyes-open for maximum benefit. So I'm sticking to that now  - 1/f beta inhibits, and EO training. I'm doing F4-P4 for emotional benefit, and F3-F4 for frontal symmetry.

 

Stopped looking at the spectral display and trying to micromanage amplitudes - I just let the feedback do its work. I do 10 mins, then up the thresholds and do another 10 mins.

 

I have set amplitudes lower with EO, but when you find the sweet spot it's possible to produce a very definite "TAG" state of flow / spaciousness.

 

Excited to take this further, correct old dysfunctions, and realise more of my potential.

 

[randomsworduser876]

Hey, guys, could anyone explain to me where exactly the placements for ILF training are?? I'm sure they're in this thread somewhere, but it's really quite hard to find specific things given the number of pages the thread has evolved to. :P From my understanding, you use the TAGx1 design and set the reward filter to under 0.5Hz and work it down slowly to find an ILF frequency you're comfortable with. What I don't understand is 1) where to place and which electrodes to use/not use when using the 1 channel design? 2) Same question for SMR. Where and what electrodes to use?? In the lengthy manual that comes with the TAGx1 design, I read to do C3-Cz-C4, but wouldn't that mean I'd use the dual channel design with a reading electrode (correct wording?) at C3-C4 and ground at Cz? I thought SMR was done with single-channel?

 

I've done 3 or 4 sessions with TAGx2 and am already noticing changes. Especially social changes. I'm a pretty quite guy to people I don't know, but earlier today in the gym, I was talking to random other people and generally having a good time socially which is quite out of character for me. Mind you, I don't think this is from doing the traditional Fz-Cz-Pz placement. Last night I experimented with F7-T3 (both references on earlobes with ground at Cz, which is another question of mine!! What, as a general guide/rule, dictates ground placement? How do y'all decide?) as well as T3-T4 (ground Cz, again, no idea if that's correct), both montages using alpha-theta sync training and then alpha-gamma. The reason I chose F7-F3 was because I read in the TAGx1 manual that that placement can be used for speech disorders/stuttering and whatnot. My ability to choose words in a timely and concise manner is pretty suboptimal, so that's why. T3-T4 was more of an experiment without reason. 

 

Anyway, sorry to make this kinda long. If someone could answer all of those questions, I'd greatly appreciate it!! I'm more or less at a standstill right now as far as training goes. I'd really like to do ILF before any more TAG training (I liked SMR though! I got my BPM to 53 where it usually rests at 56 or so during sleep!) just for reason of following Douglas' advice, as well as OpaqueMind's. I feel like my TAG training could stick a lot better if I "build the foundation of the house" first.

 

 

Thanks!

[VastEmptiness]

@Slipstream: Happy to hear about your success. They way you describe it, you seem to be a guy who carefully follows the instructions. I see that kind of people getting results over and over. Wonder where all of this is gonna take you. You aren't on The Hyperbrain Network skype channel yet, aren't you? Come on in.

 

https://join.skype.com/Pin22OOb3gVy

 

Just wanted to leave this here for everyone:

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[Slipstream]

Sounds great VE, thanks for the link. Will pop on over.

Rick, I'm not sure there's an advantage to doing things in that order necessarily, but there might be. Be interested to hear how TAG impacts your speech issues, please keep us updated!

[Slipstream]

So past couple of days I've had some odd "effects".

 

Been doing F4-P4 and F3-F4 TAG Sync  Getting better and better at hitting sync, however...

 

Past couple of days I've noticed an involuntary movement around my jaw and neck - it's subtle and is either a moderate jerky contraction or light trembling. It seems to come with a very slight spacey/trance-y state. I'm getting this frequently during the day.

 

 If I focus on it and "let it through", it develops into a strong tightening around the jaw/neck area.

 

I've experienced this jaw/neck movement before, during/after meditation, but it's never been this prominent and hasn't intruded into daily life like this. It feels like it's "nearer the surface", waiting to come through.

 

I'm suspecting beta spindling even though I've been careful with inhibits.  

 

Could this be some emotional/somatic issue coming up for processing? Anyone have somatic issues like this come up with TAG? If it's trauma coming up for processing, anything I can do to aid the integration?

 

VE, you mentioned you did SMR then TAG-sync and had "birth trauma integration".... would you mind unpacking that a little bit, how did it play out?

 

Have stopped doing NFB and emailed Dailey for a consultation. Wondering how best to handle it - maybe SMR training, or deliberately downtraining beta using the TAG inhibits.

 

Will wait for the man himself to respond, but interested to hear any thoughts or experiences others could share.

 

 

[thebrainstore]

If you get this jaw thing in meditation and are now getting it in TAG, that suggests to me that TAG is doing what it is supposed to. Trauma will come out, I have had pain and even swelling in and around the head as a result of training gradually adjusting conditions in the body.

 

My best advice would be to continue and if you aren't already relaxed in training then make that a priority. The use of an Alpha/Theta protocol might be helpful if you believe you have potential emotional trauma waiting to surface.

 

The sites you mention are applicable to Aspergers and social dysfunction. You could also try TAG between T4 and P4. This crosses the temporal parietal junction which is where some aspects of social integration occur. It sounds like a social communication dysfunction healing itself to me

[VastEmptiness]

The talks are up for free including Ken Wilber, Jeffrey Martin, etc.

 Spiritual Technologies 2.0

 

http://www.spiritual...irit-techtalks/

 

Edited by VastEmptiness, 10 May 2016 - 10:39 PM.

[MrBaxter12]

Can anyone elaborate on the upgrades DD just sent out?

 

Also, could someone send a screenshot of the 4 Chan Tag Sync being used successfully? Depending on the sites and the day, I vary between 50-80% on the synchrony/coherence scores and wanted to see if that is normal or if I should be getting higher?

 

Also, they normally fluctuate with short periods in the higher percentages (~80% for a minute or so at a time when I am really in the groove so to speak) but mostly hovering 65%-70%. I've been doing them for 3 hours a week for several months and see a small trend toward higher percentages, but wanted to see what other people's experiences were in this regard.

 

Thanks MR B

[Bogumił Hrabal]

Hi, Where can I buy TAG because previous D.D. site isn't working?

[Bogumił Hrabal]

The second question: Is TAG in some sense reducible to or even identical with coherence/synchrony protocols included in TLC7 package?

 

Regards, B.

[VastEmptiness]

Can anyone elaborate on the upgrades DD just sent out?

 

Also, could someone send a screenshot of the 4 Chan Tag Sync being used successfully? Depending on the sites and the day, I vary between 50-80% on the synchrony/coherence scores and wanted to see if that is normal or if I should be getting higher?

 

Also, they normally fluctuate with short periods in the higher percentages (~80% for a minute or so at a time when I am really in the groove so to speak) but mostly hovering 65%-70%. I've been doing them for 3 hours a week for several months and see a small trend toward higher percentages, but wanted to see what other people's experiences were in this regard.

 

Thanks MR B

 

I guess you are refering to one of my designs, I'm not sure which one though. 80% coherence is pretty good, I rarely get over that. I think that being able to create the bell sound (on both ears depending on the design) is much more important than a high coherence score but both give very pleasant effects.

 

Hi, Where can I buy TAG because previous D.D. site isn't working?

http://www.mindsupplies.com/
http://www.tagsync.com/

 

The second question: Is TAG in some sense reducible to or even identical with coherence/synchrony protocols included in TLC7 package?

 

Regards, B.

TAG is rewarding cross-frequency amplitude spikes, not coherence or sync directly. TLC7 had a similar design added recently, it's called CON2C Sync Two-Band. It lets you either train Alpha/Theta or Alpha/Gamma. Didn't look into how it exactly works, but the way TAG works is very simple in essence.

[Bogumił Hrabal]

http://www.mindsupplies.com/
http://www.tagsync.com/

- these two pages actually don't work on either my Mozilla or Chrome. For example:

 

 

Attached Files

•  tag.jpg   16.4KB   3 downloads

[VastEmptiness]

http://www.mindsupplies.com/
http://www.tagsync.com/

- these two pages actually don't work on either my Mozilla or Chrome. For example:

likely an issue at your side. both are up.

[Bogumił Hrabal]

Quite strange because growing.com and cortexercise.com are working. Thanks for the answer.

[Irishdude]

Is there any cheaper alternative than paying 1800$ yet? Surely the hardware this is based on should have become much cheaper by now.. I understand the software is expensive but the hardware should be easily china-fied.

[Bogumił Hrabal]

Already started CON2C SyncTwo-Band (Alpha-Theta, not Alpha-Gamma) at Pz and Fz; felt sharp and relaxed. Then I will change alpha 9-11Hz into theta 4-8Hz within the protocol 'script' to train theta-gamma. Will it (i.e. training with CON2C SyncTwo-Band) be sufficient for the time being in order to mimic TAG? Thanks in advance, B.

PS. Anybody knows the coherence minimum (for TAG)?
PS2. In TLC7 prescriptions I saw 4 Ch gamma synchrony training ar Oz, Pz, Cz, Fz. Anybody knows how does it relate to TAG? I have tried this protocol also and - the same - felt sharp, a bit aroused.

 

Edited by Bogumił Hrabal, 15 May 2016 - 09:04 PM.

[VastEmptiness]

Is there any cheaper alternative than paying 1800$ yet? Surely the hardware this is based on should have become much cheaper by now.. I understand the software is expensive but the hardware should be easily china-fied.

there needs to be a market for it to have some chinese company copy the stuff. also EEG isnt that simple to process. also most people have no idea NFB even exists. from a hardware cost to price ratio this stuff is heavily overpriced, but for what it does, its simply a very smart investment.

 

Already started CON2C SyncTwo-Band (Alpha-Theta, not Alpha-Gamma) at Pz and Fz; felt sharp and relaxed. Then I will change alpha 9-11Hz into theta 4-8Hz within the protocol 'script' to train theta-gamma. Will it (i.e. training with CON2C SyncTwo-Band) be sufficient for the time being in order to mimic TAG? Thanks in advance, B.

PS. Anybody knows the coherence minimum (for TAG)?
PS2. In TLC7 prescriptions I saw 4 Ch gamma synchrony training ar Oz, Pz, Cz, Fz. Anybody knows how does it relate to TAG? I have tried this protocol also and - the same - felt sharp, a bit aroused.

 

 

thats the midline, douglas recommends training there too. you can see in your TLC where you have the lowest sync values.

i wouldnt train gamma to begin with, but rather build a s trong base with alpha/theta and SMR1%C (at  C3/C4 bipolar, its probably in your plan too).

[Bogumił Hrabal]

Another question popped into my head: does anybody using TAG experienced what Candidatus described on his site: "My peak alpha frequency is quite a bit lower than it was and it’s constantly decreasing. My alpha-theta ratio is also decreasing. This all started by training with TAG." Source: http://www.effective...aining-month-3/

[MRBIOFEEDBACK]

When doing TaG you should sync alpha at 9.5-10.5 not the full 8-12 or even 9-11. That should help

[thebrainstore]

A slowing of the EEG occurs when doing insight meditation and this is essentially what TAGSync guides towards (rigpa). This is why insight needs to be balanced with concentration meditation to prevent the meditator from becoming inward.

 

I did Vipassana for 3 years rather intensely and it slowed my overall brain frequency a lot, leaving me permanently in the theta state with a peak alpha of around 8.9Hz.

 

There is a reason why TAG has 3 frequencies, and that you should use the gamma/alpha for 5 or 10 minutes after theta/alpha.

[Bogumił Hrabal]

Same. I did autogenic training... so imagine my past alpha amplitude. Slowing down brain EEG comes with certain probability (in case of training synchrony) from Pete's statement: "It is often true that when someone is producing synchronous alpha, most other frequencies go away, but certainly not always when one is learning to do it will that happen." (https://brain-traine...ence-synchrony/)

[Slipstream]

What's a good protocol for increasing PAF?

 

Brain trainer PAF protocol at Pz?

 

 

[thebrainstore]

@Bogumil: Well either do gamma after your alpha/theta TAG or continue with the autogenic in between. It looks interesting, I had never heard of it before.

 

@Slipstream: Whats a PAF?

Does it mean Posterior Alpha Frequency?

Edited by spektrolyte, 16 May 2016 - 09:33 PM.

[Slipstream]

Sorry yes I meant peak alpha frequency.  I assumed it's measured/trained at Pz? ( FYI Swingle looks for Hi/Lo alpha ratio at Fz, for a similar measure of cognitive efficiency).

[thebrainstore]

Nah you're probably better at O1 for that. Too much posterior alpha on the right is not a good thing. It seems to come from the left hand side of the occipital area in a healthy brain.

[Bogumił Hrabal]

@spektrolyte: I've just been considering doing alpha-theta Pz and Fz with eyes closed then alpha- or theta-gamma with eyes open. Similar approach in TLC7, if sb trains gamma.

@Slipstrem: As in TLC7 with PAF: if you score I guess beneath 9.5 Hz you should train it up, for every site of 10-20 system (correct me if I'm wrong).

Edited by Bogumił Hrabal, 16 May 2016 - 10:10 PM.

[lincolnn]

Has anyone tried to incorporate Virtual Reality as feedback?

[VastEmptiness]

Ken Wilber on Democratizing Enlightenment

 

 

 

Mikey Siegel (Consciousness Hacking)

Jeffrey Martin (PNSE)

from the Spiritual Technologies 2.0 Summit. I enjoyed those talks. More here:

 

http://www.spiritual...ds-video-audio/

Edited by VastEmptiness, 25 May 2016 - 04:32 PM.