Nice! B12 should preferably be methylcobalamin and sublingual. Try with 300mg of Alpha GPC.
Yeah, skip the SAMe. You have all the components to create SAMe naturally now.
Even if you don't notice any effects from this it's not a waste of money. It most certainly will do great things to your body.
finally tried the combo of choline (alpha gpc), b12, methylfolate, and tmg. I actually took choline an hour after I had taken the other 3. I'm sure that doesn't count. I'll try again tomorrow to see if taking all 4 at the same time will make a difference. I did what I did just to feel out the effects if any or if it makes me "speedy" with the addition of choline. My dose was: b12 5000 mcg, methylfolate 400 mcg, TMG 1.5 grams, and alpha gpc choline 150mg. Was the choline dose a bit low? I was just testing it first. Suggested use was 300mg to 600mg, but up to 1 g a day as well.
Zenfood, I've tried SAMe before, not into it. One of your replies #39 mentioned that folate and TMG makes SAMe, so that means I do not need to supplement with SAMe since I am on folate and TMG, right? It makes SAMe right?
As with anything, how does one cycle things? Is it best to stay on for 2 months and then take off for a week then back at it again? Usually a steroid cycle is said to be 10 weeks on and 10 weeks off or something similar. But then again we're not talking about steroids here but cycling nootropics.
Curious if low dose Meth around 1mg maybe even in mcg could somehow open doors of the mind?
I'm sure it could. The only kind I would consider is desoxyn though.
Desoxyn can be a magic bullet for those who have tried everything else with ADHD.
Adderall is mixed amphetamine salts with a Levo and Dex base, I'm not actually sure if desoxyn contains both enantiomers, but I'm fairly certain its just a methyl group added to Dexamphetamine.
Based off my experience with Adderall and Dexadrine, Levoamphetamine is more responsible for the memory and intellectual benefits where as Dexamphetamine is more mood uplifting, so my guess is that desoxyn would be mostly anxiolytic.
Levometamfetamine is available OTC as Vapor Inhaler for nasal decongestant. It's the main ingredient. The inhaler contains 50mg levmetamfetamine. Each inhalation delivers 0.04 to 0.150mg of levometamfetamine. I have tried it. I felt euphoric for a few hours. I felt my heart raise probably because of the caffeine I had drank at the same time.
Desoxyn is a mix of levo/dex, 50/50. Correct me if i'm wrong. I think someone explained to me at one point that levo is the physical effect of meth, and dextro is to the CNS.
Not sure I know of desoxyn being sold not less than 5mg a pill.
I seem to like my dose of 300mg Alpha GPC. I know this is water soluble and usually that means it leaves the body quickly and how often or how much dose should be good throughout the day? I've heard of people taking them in grams. I think Alpha GPC maximum is 1g. I would think other types of choline you could take more?
Also, I read up an article regarding eating fruits and their peel. I've recently been eating Kiwi fruit's peel and it taste delicious. First time doing so. I'm going to try eating peel of a banana as the article mentioned it is high in serotonin. The banana need to be very ripe so the peel is thinner. Orange peel were mentioned as well. Apples is a no brainer, who doesn't eat the whole apple?
Levometamfetamine is available OTC as Vapor Inhaler for nasal decongestant. It's the main ingredient. The inhaler contains 50mg levmetamfetamine. Each inhalation delivers 0.04 to 0.150mg of levometamfetamine. I have tried it. I felt euphoric for a few hours. I felt my heart raise probably because of the caffeine I had drank at the same time.
Desoxyn is a mix of levo/dex, 50/50. Correct me if i'm wrong. I think someone explained to me at one point that levo is the physical effect of meth, and dextro is to the CNS.
Not sure I know of desoxyn being sold not less than 5mg a pill.
Desoxyn is not a 50/50 mix. You're thinking of racemic Methamphetamine.
On Rx list it says Desoxyn is chemically known as (S) -N,α-dimethylbenzeneethanamine hydrochloride. When it comes to meth S means dex and R means levo. Desoxyn is pure dexmethamphetamine. I've never heard of it coming in more than 5 mg either.
I can't speak for levomethamphetamine, but for regular levoamphetamine I experience far better memory improvement than I would get from just dexamphetamine alone.
L-amp is not actually a PNS stimulant, its a common misconception. They both cross the blood brain barrier fine, L-amp just releases far more NE than DE causing more physical side effects than D-amp.
What source was your lev-meth, was it the OTC nasal inhalation type? I don't know of a drug that is only levo other than the OTC nasal inhalation product.
You could be right about meth, but the wikipedia page I looked at was where I found the 50/50 info. regarding methamphetamine (desoxyn). Rx list looks incomplete with their info.
What source was your lev-meth, was it the OTC nasal inhalation type? I don't know of a drug that is only levo other than the OTC nasal inhalation product.
You could be right about meth, but the wikipedia page I looked at was where I found the 50/50 info. regarding methamphetamine (desoxyn). Rx list looks incomplete with their info.
"I can't speak for levomethamphetamine, but for regular levoamphetamine I experience far better MEMORY IMPROVEMENT than I would get from just dexamphetamine alone."
Let me put it this way, I experience more memory improvement with adderall than I do dexedrine. Since the main difference between adderall and dexedrine is L-amp, the increased memory improvement adderall gives me must come from L-amp.
On the wiki page its saying that racemic meth is 50/50, but we are talking about desoxyn. Not all meth is created equal.
I only referenced the Rx list for the chemical name that desoxyn is universally called by.
another nasal inhaler I found contains propylhexedrine. Not sure if it is a class of meth.
Someone mentioned to me that coffee makes this person jittery but not dexmethamphetamine. I find this hard to believe. Could this be true? While another person mentioned meth is like having drank 12 cups of coffee. Contradictions... Maybe they forgot to mention which isomers they used.
Zenfood, my combo of b12, choline, folate, and TMG seems to work fine, but I am thinking of using a racetam. The reason why I had the Alpha GPC was to combine it with Aniracetam. Is it too much to add a racetam with the 4 other compounds? I was thinking of just testing aniracetam with GPC to see the effects without the other compounds.
I did the piracetam/CDP combo before. Loved it but was only on the 2 or 3 week cycle.
I think It just depends on the dose really. Most reports I've seen about desoxyn at a therapeutic dose say they feel less tweaked out and it has less of a kick than adderall. If I double my dose of adderall it would feel like 15 cups of coffee, but at 10 mg I find it relaxing. I'm guessing desoxyn would be similar.
Racemic meth is non approved in the U.S. so idk.
You might have an easier time finding info on it if you look up DL methamphetamine. I did find a page on, but it started listing instructions on how to make it so I left the site. (Not sure if it's illegal to be looking at that, better safe than sorry)
Just curious, if it were legal would you even use it for neuro enhancing purposes?
Interesting. I knew Dexmeth was but I had no clue about racemic. I'm assuming there aren't any approved medications containing a mixture of both then. I can't think of a clinical use for it , even for adhd.
well meth is meth so it would be scheduled regardless. I'm assuming the racemic meth is what is "street meth" or homemade meth then since it isn't available from a pharmaceutical giant. But what makes it "racemic"? They all are manufactured from ephedra if i'm not mistaken? I think the OTC drug sudafed is what clandestine chemists use or used to use when cooking up their homemade meth as it contains pseudoephedrine. I still don't think it's at the same level as Desoxyn or the other pharmaceutical grade.
even if you looked at the site, you shouldn't be in a bad position as the owner of that site is. LOL.
I would use meth for neuro enhancing purposes only if the guarantee is there that it won't make me a meth addict and or fucked by it, or have any weird side effects. I would prefer it in mcg doses rather than the mg doses which Desoxyn comes in 5mg pills. I wished there was such a thing as 1mcg Desoxyn. That would be a dream. So one 5mg pill of Desoxyn is 5000mcg, and if I dose 1 mcg a day, I would have 5000 doses and good for a few years. LOL. I'm not saying 1mcg would be sufficient but just as an experiment. The pharmaceutical giants wouldn't make money this way, they want someone hooked.
I don't know why the makers never thought of starting someone out on the lowest dose possible instead of the default 5mg dose. There should be atleast options.
Racemic meth is non approved in the U.S. so idk.
You might have an easier time finding info on it if you look up DL methamphetamine. I did find a page on, but it started listing instructions on how to make it so I left the site. (Not sure if it's illegal to be looking at that, better safe than sorry)
Just curious, if it were legal would you even use it for neuro enhancing purposes?
some interesting quote regarding increasing dopamine levels:
"Get plenty of sleep. One of the best ways to feel energized and ready to tackle the day is to get plenty of sleep. Dopamine has been tied to feelings of wakefulness, so in order to get that wakeful feeling, get 7 to 8 hour of sleep a night.
Or...don't get any. If you're actually looking to up your dopamine levels as opposed to feeling good, dopamine levels skyrocket with sleep deprivation. You'll feel fatigued, groggy, and irritable, but your dopamine levels will be through the roof."
So technically, since meth keeps a person up (sleep deprivation), dopamine increases as much as being on the drug itself would also cause. The wikihow link also mentioned ECT electro convulsive therapy, first time I've heard it.
EON: If you're looking to try a Racetam, then try FASORACETAM - it's one of the newest racetam -compounds, and is also the only one that is actually being researched* as treatment for ADHD.
*( the research is being done by a gent called Hakon Hakonarson, who works with the international human genome project - he's using advanced gene-data from adhd-children, and found mutations in the glutamatergic network, he then used advanced super-computers to cross-reference the potential mutated receptors with all known compounds that affect the glutamate-network - and actually found a very promising ALREADY manufactured, researched, and tested compound - Facoracetam. If the computer-models hold up to the testing he's currently doing - then he may have found a god-damn magic bullet. Straight to brain, man.)
And you don't even need choline-supplements with it! It actually automatically raises choline-levels in your body, replenishing its own choline-burn..! o_0
There's been several successful tests of it here on Longecity - so it does seem to help SOME of us with ADHD. Some don't report much of an effect at all tho', so your mileage may vary, as always.
Edited by Stinkorninjor, 31 October 2014 - 11:58 AM.
You guys should look into Neurofeedback! SMR training has been studied for over 3 decades for add/adhd. Neurofeedback has the advantage of actually looking at your brainwaves to assess how they relate to your symptoms. The downside is up-front costs: around 2K for small but efficient system. Listen, its used clinically for a wide range of disorders. Anyone has any inquiries msg me.
Btw, you can pump compound after compound into your system. You may get some results but whatever results you get (and these are largely speculative) will require lifelong compliance. Teaching your brain to react and behave the way youd like to lasts a lifetime! To be honest i use a mix of both approaches but whatever supps i take are not to treat a condition tgey are to enhance my physiology. Neurofeedback when done properly can induce massive improvements.
Interesting info. but do talk about it so everyone can chime in as well.
You guys should look into Neurofeedback! SMR training has been studied for over 3 decades for add/adhd. Neurofeedback has the advantage of actually looking at your brainwaves to assess how they relate to your symptoms. The downside is up-front costs: around 2K for small but efficient system. Listen, its used clinically for a wide range of disorders. Anyone has any inquiries msg me.
I have heard of it but its lack of popularity is what keeps me from looking into it further until you mentioned more about it. Ampakine such as aniracetam are said to be effective for ADHD and othe things as well. Not sure where facoracetam belongs in. It isn't an ampakine.
EON: If you're looking to try a Racetam, then try FASORACETAM - it's one of the newest racetam -compounds, and is also the only one that is actually being researched* as treatment for ADHD.
*( the research is being done by a gent called Hakon Hakonarson, who works with the international human genome project - he's using advanced gene-data from adhd-children, and found mutations in the glutamatergic network, he then used advanced super-computers to cross-reference the potential mutated receptors with all known compounds that affect the glutamate-network - and actually found a very promising ALREADY manufactured, researched, and tested compound - Facoracetam. If the computer-models hold up to the testing he's currently doing - then he may have found a god-damn magic bullet. Straight to brain, man.)
And you don't even need choline-supplements with it! It actually automatically raises choline-levels in your body, replenishing its own choline-burn..! o_0
There's been several successful tests of it here on Longecity - so it does seem to help SOME of us with ADHD. Some don't report much of an effect at all tho', so your mileage may vary, as always.
EON: If you're looking to try a Racetam, then try FASORACETAM - it's one of the newest racetam -compounds, and is also the only one that is actually being researched* as treatment for ADHD.
*( the research is being done by a gent called Hakon Hakonarson, who works with the international human genome project - he's using advanced gene-data from adhd-children, and found mutations in the glutamatergic network, he then used advanced super-computers to cross-reference the potential mutated receptors with all known compounds that affect the glutamate-network - and actually found a very promising ALREADY manufactured, researched, and tested compound - Facoracetam. If the computer-models hold up to the testing he's currently doing - then he may have found a god-damn magic bullet. Straight to brain, man.)
And you don't even need choline-supplements with it! It actually automatically raises choline-levels in your body, replenishing its own choline-burn..! o_0
There's been several successful tests of it here on Longecity - so it does seem to help SOME of us with ADHD. Some don't report much of an effect at all tho', so your mileage may vary, as always.
First of all, lets look at this post in a little more detail. There is SCANT research on this compound. No one knows much about it. I also looked into your mention of Dr Hakon Hakonarson. He is an actual research looking into the genetic linkages of ADHD. He found that around 10% of the genetic susceptibility can be attributed to the mGluR receptors. Even if Fasoracetam does what its supposed to do in this case (and I have no research explicitly verifying that it will), 10% genetic susceptibility is a far cry from finding the wholly grail of ADHD.
The link for the research in powerpoint format that i googled is here
What bothers me most is the saleslike approach you had with this very expensive, badly documented compound.
FACT 1 : The Human Genome Project was an international project that ANY research lab could subscribe to and contribute to. It was not some highly secretive and exclusive organization. It was a project that was built so that researchers from around the world could easily contribute to the gargantuan task.
FACT 2 : A pubmed search of Fasoracetam results in virtually nothing! If you give a prescription to someone for fasoracetam, at least have some documented evidence to show for it. Not heresay.
Keywords like "Advanced Gene-Data", "Super-Computers", "Human Genome Project" sound more like a salespitch than anything else. If he has data from an ADHD gene database or gathered it himself, then great. He still wouldn't need "Super-Computers" to process it. Just some normal multicore computer could do the job and/or a cluster of servers that any computing center has.
Lets keep things scientific people. If you have research, show it.
EON: If you're looking to try a Racetam, then try FASORACETAM - it's one of the newest racetam -compounds, and is also the only one that is actually being researched* as treatment for ADHD.
*( the research is being done by a gent called Hakon Hakonarson, who works with the international human genome project - he's using advanced gene-data from adhd-children, and found mutations in the glutamatergic network, he then used advanced super-computers to cross-reference the potential mutated receptors with all known compounds that affect the glutamate-network - and actually found a very promising ALREADY manufactured, researched, and tested compound - Facoracetam. If the computer-models hold up to the testing he's currently doing - then he may have found a god-damn magic bullet. Straight to brain, man.)
And you don't even need choline-supplements with it! It actually automatically raises choline-levels in your body, replenishing its own choline-burn..! o_0
There's been several successful tests of it here on Longecity - so it does seem to help SOME of us with ADHD. Some don't report much of an effect at all tho', so your mileage may vary, as always.
First of all, lets look at this post in a little more detail. There is SCANT research on this compound. No one knows much about it. I also looked into your mention of Dr Hakon Hakonarson. He is an actual research looking into the genetic linkages of ADHD. He found that around 10% of the genetic susceptibility can be attributed to the mGluR receptors. Even if Fasoracetam does what its supposed to do in this case (and I have no research explicitly verifying that it will), 10% genetic susceptibility is a far cry from finding the wholly grail of ADHD.
The link for the research in powerpoint format that i googled is here
What bothers me most is the saleslike approach you had with this very expensive, badly documented compound.
FACT 1 : The Human Genome Project was an international project that ANY research lab could subscribe to and contribute to. It was not some highly secretive and exclusive organization. It was a project that was built so that researchers from around the world could easily contribute to the gargantuan task.
FACT 2 : A pubmed search of Fasoracetam results in virtually nothing! If you give a prescription to someone for fasoracetam, at least have some documented evidence to show for it. Not heresay.
Keywords like "Advanced Gene-Data", "Super-Computers", "Human Genome Project" sound more like a salespitch than anything else. If he has data from an ADHD gene database or gathered it himself, then great. He still wouldn't need "Super-Computers" to process it. Just some normal multicore computer could do the job and/or a cluster of servers that any computing center has.
Lets keep things scientific people. If you have research, show it.
As far as I can tell, biofeedback haven't been proven as a valid treatment of ADHD either.
I will admit to getting a bit too enthusiastic here, but there's certainly ample data to support a theoretical efficiency of Fasoracetam on ADHD, it's actions on the glutamatergic system - when it comes to NMDA-related comorbidity, and the effects on cAMP when it comes to direct effect on attentive morbidity.
( as you probably know, this is the main mode of effect of guanfacine - it activates the Alpha-2 receptors, and lowers cAMP, similar to how the DRD4 -receptors are meant to lower cAMP, but fails to do so if you have a mutation to those receptors, which some ADHD-patients definitely do.)
You can check out the Fasoracetam -thread here on Longecity for more info on the compound, it's quite a fascinating medication.
I'd very much like to take this challenge on, and present the documentation there is on Faso, as well as a quick study on the effects reported by the users here on Longecity, but I'm experiencing receptor-fatigue from Methylphenidate once more, so I can't actually do it. I can't gather anything, or perform any complex task today.
All I can say is this, stay tuned, and I'll give an attempt to come up with some reasonable documentation, and hopefully eventually, the results from Dr Hakonarsons study - I've been in e-mail contact with him, and he does seem to believe in the compound.
It's true tho', he does say that there's a limited patient-group that will benefit from Fasoracetam.
On a similar note tho', I'd love to see if there's some documentation regarding biofeedback and treating ADHD - specifically the motivational aspects. What little I've had time to look into, seems to be regarding biofeedback and the attentional aspects, no info whether it helps those of us with a predominantly motivational morbidity at all.
DISCLAIMER: I currently do not have any affiliation to anybody selling or manufacturing Fasoracetam, nor do I have any interest in making people rich on the misery of others. What I do have, is an intense distaste for traditional stimulants, as they cause me intense suicidal tendencies, which causes me great discomfort. I am therefore enthusiastic about alternatives, sometimes detrimentally so.
EDIT: I just found this study ( containing a review of other studies), and it doesn't seem to imply anything good for bio/neurofeedback.
Seems like the current consensus is that it's useless for every symptom there is, of ADHD.
Probably a better idea then, to look into other, more direct treatments. The ultimate treatment of ADHD is no doubt neither chemical, behavioural, electrical or aural, but rather - genetical.
David Anderson of Caltech had a TED -talk where he revealed that genetic therapy of flies with a model of ADHD, essentially cured their condition.
The day when we finally dare to do this to humans, is when we have a proper treatment of the disorder(s).
Edited by Stinkorninjor, 02 November 2014 - 08:29 PM.
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