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Hedonic and therapeutic efficacy of dopaminergic drugs

dopamine hendonic amphetamine dra dri dat transporter dopaminergic 9-me-bc selegiline

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#1 Shulginstestsubject

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 09:24 AM


Good morning friends,

I have quite a bit of experience with a drug called Adderall. It is a mixture of

dl-amphetamine aspartate monohydrate
dl-amphetamine sulfate
dextroamphetamine saccharate
and dextroamphetamine sulfate.

Years ago, when I would abuse the drug, I would take doses from 80mg to 120mg in a day. Using it therapeutically, I would take 30mg per day.

While the drug is active in my system I feel exactly how I want to feel (during abuse and therapeutic use). This is why I'm using the drug as a point of reference to judge other pharms, nootropics, and research chemicals. I intend to find a safer,less addictive drug to use with less side effects.

I understand that a healthy lifestyle plays a major role in feeling healthy. My diet is almost vegetarian, with the exception of chicken primarily. I've significantly reduced cigarette consumption with my electronic cigarette (from 15 to 4 cigarettes daily). I've recently stopped my cardio exercise regimen because I'd been running 10 to 15 miles a week for three years and I felt that I was officially doing more damage than good. I should hit the gym again soon, though. I also meditated for years, but I feel it wasn't helping depressive and anxious symptoms, but did help in other areas.

I will describe the effects I like and the effects I don't like.

When amphetamines first start to take effect my body starts to feel a bit lighter. I literally feel like I'm less subject to gravity than usual. It's like a pleasurable buoyancy.
-Is this analgesia?
-Is this noradrenaline?
-Is this opioid related?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23130899
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15501295
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24965531 (probably not opioid mediated?)

I start to generally feel some emotional excitement and increased locomotion, which I like. Shortly afterwards, my hands and feet get cold and clamy. This is likely vasoconstriction, which I don't like because it eventually makes my penis shrivel up a bit (I'd like to avoid this).

Then I get this wonderful bodily rush. Imagine being entirelly stressed with work and then, suddenly, somebody trustworthy starts to rub, grope, massage, and touch you in places that are aching for attention. It's actually feels very erotic and enjoyable to me.

Could this have anything to do with smooth muscle relaxation from adrenoreceptors? Increase in cAMP?

To be specific, I get this pleasant warmth within my lower abdomen while the bouyancy increases and my legs don't feel subject to gravity.

I'd love to find this mechanism of bodily pleasure. It happens to me with marijuana (sometimes), amphetamines, alcohol rebound, and hallucinogenic drugs. So my guess is that this has something to do with increased thalamic and cortical glutamate release/activity.

From this point forward I feel content, focused, professional, goal oriented, and motivated. All of which are likely attributable to dump of dopamine from nerve terminals into the nuccleus accumbens and the prefrontal cotex. Especially the tingles on the top of my head.

Positive effects aside. At this point I usually experience rapid dehydration and I have a few anxiety provoking heart palpitations (even on occasions with a single isolated does). I usually drink a half litre of water.

What role does vasopressin play in mediating the therapeutic effects of amphetamines? Those of you who've tried vasopressin nasal inhaler, what effects did you notice?

About 2.5 hours in, pleasurable tactile sensations are amplified. If I gently stimulate my testicles, my entire body and mind is overcome with pleasure and relaxation within five seconds. Again, I'm thinking this is due to increased glutamatergic activity in the thalamus and the cortex and dopamine in the NAcc.

The focus enhancement, emotional excitement, and sexual arousal continue for another 2 hours and gently fade away. The next day I feel generally fine with some light cognitive issues that fade after about 48 hours.

In normal sobriety, I have a lot of dark thoughts that tend to bring me down emotionally and motivationally. My mind will venture into possible random potential situations of extreme loss and devastation. All I need is a pleasurable distraction/diversion. I feel a sustainable increase in hedonic tone is appropriate, which is probably true for everybody, all the time.

I also take:
"from the earth" multivitamin
1300mg of EPA fish oil
800mg Aniracetam
lots of coffee
nicotine
marijuana

MY QUESTION → Are there any drugs, nootropics, research chemicals that:

-exert a clinically significant increase in activity at dopamine receptors in the nucleus accumbens and prefrontal cortex?
-increase glutamatergic activity in the thalamus and the cortex
-provides an analgesic effect
-"bouyancy"
-provide locomotor stimulation, "focus", goal oriented activity, etc.

I was thinking perhaps:

Ethylphenidate
2-FMA
9-methyl-betacarboline
selegiline
BPAP
7,8 dihydroxyflavone
Bromantane
Neuropeptide S (safety?)
Cabergoline (although I'd prefer Lisuride due to 5-HT2B activity)
Alpha-PHP (probably not, but availability makes this one easier, but definitely not safer than adderall)
3,4-CTMP (If I can find US domestic source)

Anybody have experience with these? Can you recommend them?

Are ther any ampakines, racetams, or more obscure drugs (idra-21 and prl-8-53) that increase tactile sensitivity and sexual arousal?

I ask that you share your experiences. I'm really close to trying selegiline or 9-methyl-betacarboline. To what extent does selegiline enhance sexual arousal?

I am 24, 150lbs, and 5'11"

You are all incredible people!! Thank you!!

Also, are there any other forums I can get good information and anecdotal reports?






 


Edited by Shulginstestsubject, 16 December 2014 - 09:25 AM.


#2 jroseland

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 12:34 AM

I also took Adderral for several years and grew to love that cracked out, productive feeling you get on it... For me a high dosage of Piracetam+Alpha GPC produces a similar sensation? Is this something you've tried?



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#3 Shulginstestsubject

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 05:00 AM

I've tried oxiracetam, noopept, and aniracetam as far as racetams go. Aniracetam is my favorite because of it's lack of sexual side effects. Oxi made me feel angry and noopept made my dick cold.

Who has experience with selegiline? 9-me-BC?

 



#4 noot_in_the_sky

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 04:42 PM

From the stuff you have mention, I have use: cabergoline, ani, oxi, selegiline and 9-me-BC.

Cabergoline only made me sleepy and horny. So it may not be what you are looking for. Although I must say, I had the same effect with other dopamine agoinist too.

Selegiline(2.5mg/d for 5d/wk) has provided me with a boost in energy and elevated my mood. However, I don't like the l-meth and l-amph metabolites, because of their main effect on norepinephrine which is why I'm changing to Rasagiline.

9-me-BC(10mg once or twice per day) has improve my mood, sleep, focus, energy, and yes sex drive too. Something I like is that it seem to have help with some of the tolerance I develop to selegiline. However, it amplifies the effect of norepinephrine from selegiline for me.

Now if you are looking for something that makes you goal oriented, then you may want to try Pramiracetam. For me it was the strongest for this. It gave me a different attitude kind of like, "don't leave for tomorrow what you can do today." The main down side was that it's a pain in the butt to dose correctly. At the end I found that 50-100mg/day was enough; it's also a good idea to use something stimulating such as centrophexine or sunifiram with it.

#5 deeptrance

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 09:21 PM

I've tried:

ethylphenidate - very aggressive euphoriant/stimulant that cannot be safely used on a regular basis

alpha-pvp - so horrible, I tossed it after a couple of trials

cabergoline - micro-dosed; I take 0.25 mg per week! probably no signif. 5ht2b effect at this dosage

rasagiline - definitely preferable to selegiline, see: http://www.sciencedi...210533612000731 )

amantadine - you might want to look into this, I don't really understand all the glutamatergic/cholinergic effects

memantine - too dissociative for me; took me out of reality and cut me off from emotions

modafinil - I hate this, just made my hyper-awake with no affect (emotion)

2-fma - worked nicely for the month that I used it daily, but completely obliterated sexual function and libido; also seemed unnecessarily addictive, although when I stopped using it I was fine even after 30 days at 100 mg/day

5-meo-mipt - the most effective long-term option I've ever stumbled upon for achieving multiple objectives without too many side effects; must be dosed sub-threshold, of course, as psychedelia would be an unwanted daily side effect; it's a weak SNRI with some dopaminergic features, (maybe a dopamine agonist? but not to excess); highly pro-sexual

 

In general, I think you probably know in your gut that any of the hard core stimulants on your list are bad options for long term use, as they cause far more harm than is worth the temporary boost in mood and energy.

 

During early trials of cabergoline, I was also trying rasagiline along with the other dopamine-boosting supplements I was taking at the time (e.g., mucuna, DLPA), and I found myself overloaded and out of balance. I think I experienced something like 'rhoid rage. I felt a fueled-up on testosterone, aggressive, impatient, agitated... it was unpleasant, and it was a downer for sex because it blunted my ability to experience sexual pleasure. I achieved orgasm quickly, which was an effect I had been looking for due to having problems in the opposite direction, but it wasn't enjoyable. I spent some weeks trying different dosages and combos and finally decided that rasagiline was just too dopamine-dominant and anti-serotonergic for me, and it also caused insomnia. I cut way back on the cabergoline to 0.25 mg/week, and this seems to be optimal for my purposes. 

 


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#6 noot_in_the_sky

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 12:55 AM

rasagiline - definitely preferable to selegiline, see: http://www.sciencedi...210533612000731 )


Why is this the case, & what are your dose? I been thinking about changing from selegiline to rasagiline, but I haven't found much information comparing the two.

Also have you try adding some supplements with pro-serotonergic?

#7 deeptrance

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 01:09 AM

I studied rasagiline and selegiline extensively before choosing one, and all the pros and cons pointed to rasagiline being preferable and causing fewer problems. I don't have any of that information memorized but some of it is in the link I provided. I tried the starting dose of 300 mg/day and it was too much for me, too energizing, plus insomnia. I tried taking as little as 100 mg/day, which was a hassle because the capsules are hard to break into and then I had to weigh it into thirds. Anyway, 100/day was still too much. It just feels aggressive, I don't know how else to explain. I think it would be very good for someone who sleeps a lot and has low energy. It might be too much for you too but if you're switching from amph to it then it would be fine. In fact, I forgot to mention that I'm currently using some RC stims that I don't really want to get into, but that's why I can't be on rasagiline! Yeah, I should have said something about that... I'm over-stimmed as it is.

 

I do take serotonergic substances. I take tryptophan every night, and my stims are serotonergic (as is 5-meo-mipt). I take rhodiola. I don't really have much room to push the serotonin, as I'm quite sensitive to that whole aspect of my nervous system. I've experienced serotonin syndrome a couple times, and I've had extremely bad reactions to SSRIs at normal starting doses. So as long as I'm using triple reuptake inhibitor/releasing agent drugs, it's really not safe for me to do much more than the tryptophan. And I mainly take that at night to help replenish what gets used during the day. 



#8 noot_in_the_sky

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 03:06 AM

Thank you for your respond, deeptrance.

I saw a user name Ben started on 0.5mg 3 times per week, and then moving to 0.5mg/d. (http://www.longecity...rasagiline-log/)
I was thinking to do as Ben & start at 0.5mg 3 times per week; after all I only take 2.5mg of selegiline 5 time per week. Btw, did you mean 0.1mg & 0.3mg instead of 100mg & 300mg?

I was actually looking at super rhodiola & hydergine for a serotonergic effect. However, I know that hydergine also has an effect on dopamine, so it has made me a bit reluctant to combine it with a MAO inhibitor.

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#9 deeptrance

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 01:24 AM

I saw a user name Ben started on 0.5mg 3 times per week, and then moving to 0.5mg/d. (http://www.longecity...rasagiline-log/)
I was thinking to do as Ben & start at 0.5mg 3 times per week; after all I only take 2.5mg of selegiline 5 time per week. Btw, did you mean 0.1mg & 0.3mg instead of 100mg & 300mg?

 

Oops, I'm sorry, I was thinking of amantadine! I don't recall what dosage of rasagiline I tried, but any dosage was too much so I got rid of it. 

 

The main negative effects of rasagiline for me were insomnia and increased blood pressure. The primary reason I can't take any MAO inhibitor of any kind is that I use recreational drugs. In my case, the reaction was pretty strong and almost scary. 

 

I don't know anything about hydergine so I cannot comment on it. I've been taking rhodiola for 3 years. I don't notice an effect from it but I take it anyway because I've had very good success with all the adaptogens that I take. The main effects are that my energy is sustained throughout the day, I never get sick even when everyone around me gets sick, my allergies are better, I sleep better, and I'm able to be physically active and strong even during times when I am not doing any exercise. I cannot prove that adaptogens have caused any of these effects, but my general health and well-being improved gradually during the exact time when I have been taking as many as 10 different adaptogens a day. Also, I have not been depressed in several years, and have had no serious problems with anxiety. But maybe I'm just experiencing the benefits of getting older. I'm almost 59.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: dopamine, hendonic, amphetamine, dra, dri, dat, transporter, dopaminergic, 9-me-bc, selegiline

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