13 replies to this topic

[JCDC85]

I tore my MCL 7 days ago. Dr. says it is a grade 2 tear and won't need surgery. I am looking to heal this like Wolverine so I can get back to the physical activities I like doing.

I have been reading the forums for the last 3 days but there is so much information to digest and it's hard to keep up with what is the most recently suggested. Please let me know what you suggest and what will be most helpful. I am 29yrs old and have very high deductible insurance and live in the Washington DC area, so keep that in mind.

 

Things I already have: Dosage or exclusion recomendations?

-Low inflammation diet,                              Hybrid of Dave Aspreys bulletproof and John Kiefers Carb-Backloading

-Bone both                                                  

-Topical Magnesium lotion                          http://www.ancient-m...gnesium-lotion/

-Earth Pulse PEMF.                                      I sleep with it strapped to my knee over night on recovery setting

-USPLabs Cissus Q.                                    http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/B001GMUXJY

-GHRP/GHRH GRF-129 and GHRP-2         I was just taking post workout. Is pre bed the most important for healing? Do I need to combine with stimulation of insulin to allow for IGF-1 production 

-Contrast showers and cold tub.                Showers every day, sometime 2x/day. Cold tub 50-55 degrees for 20-30min at a time usually.

-Upgraded Collagen                                    10-30g/day   https://www.bulletpr...raded-collagen/

-Vitamin C                                                    1g/day

-Phenocane Curcumin Supp                        4/dose  x 2-3 times a day    http://greenfieldfit.../#comment-89794

-Mt Capra Capraflex                                     4/dose  x 2-3/day         http://www.mtcapra.com/capraflex/

-Traumeel w/Arnica                                    Occasionally. http://www.amazon.co...traumeel arnica

-TendLite 660nm LLLT                                   Got this for x-mas but looking at returning it and getting another either cheaper or more powerful option from eBay or elsewhere. Suggestions on best specs for my knee?

-CBD Oil                                                        I use this for sleep and social relaxation but It seems great for inflammation as well. Orally only or Trandermally? http://greenfieldfit...-rich-hemp-oil/

-Essential Oils                                                Young Living Sample Pack including Frankincense/Lemon/Lavender/Melaleuca Altrnifolia/Peppermint/Thieves/Joy/Purification/PanAway                                        http://www.younglivi...-oil-collection

 

Thinking of adding:

-DMSO      Topically? Orally? Both? Best source from DMSO.com?

-MSM?      Topically? Orally? Both?

-Hyaluronic Acid?  It seems molecule is either to hydrophilic and large for topical and gets broken down in the stomach so pointless oral. Is this true? Injection the only way? Worth injecting?

-Prolotherapy? Seems very expensive

-Pulsed AAS Deca or Equipose or Adequa. 1 or 2x/week depending on half-life. Pulsed because I am not in a position nor do I desire to go on full cycle that would require PCT

 

-ANYTHING I AM MISSING?

 

[itpp]

Maybe

Jarrow Ultra Bone Up
Davinci Labs Perna Plus
GLC 2000

[JCDC85]

Thanks! My Capraflex already has very bioavailable Glucosamine and Chondroitin though so I feel these may be redundant....

 

Is source of DMSO important?

[CoconutDi]

Everything you are doing looks very similar to what I'v tried. I've had terrible tendonosis in both hamstrings for over 3 years.  I've tried the following from your list and still use daily:

 

Paleo Diet

Bone both - homemade 2-3 cups daily

Magnesium Oil - homemade

Bulk Cissus Quadrangluarus

Great lakes Collagen

Liposomal Vitamin C

Tumeric/Curcumin

MSM, Glucosamine supp

Traumeel (don't use this anymore.  It works well for thin areas of the skin but not for my glute/hams)

Essential Oils - panaway and deepblue work best.  Homemade using wintergreen, peppermint, camphor and others didn't work as well.

DMSO - Spray on skin prior to using any other topical treatment.  Alone I don't feel much but combined with biofreeze it works great.

Biofreeze - my daily go to.

Sea Mussel

 

I had prolotherapy done and it is well worth the money.   The items above work for shorterm pain but nothing has fully effected it as much as he prolotherapy.  I've had 5 total injections (2 on left hamstring tenon, 3 on right) over a 4 month period.  After a week after the first injection, I could feel the tightness and soreness decreasing.  After the second, I had almost full range of motion.  I'm considering another injections in my left.

 

 

Considering how much I've spent on supplements and massage tools for relief, I might as well have gotton the prolo.  PRP was my next go to for help and may actually be better in your case.  Doing self ASTYM/Graston techniques around the knee will help keep blood flow to the area and promote healing.  I'll be interested in hearing your outcome.  Keep us posted.

 

[JCDC85]

How much do you pay for the Prolo and PRP?

 

[CoconutDi]

$200 per injection for prolotherapy.  It can take multiple injections.  I've had 5 so far.  When I was quoted for PRP it was $800 per injection with only one or two injections needed.  My physical therapist didn't advertise that he did these procedures so it was quite a surprised when he told me.  It was hard for me to find a doctor who did these.  I wish medical insurance covered these.

[JCDC85]

Ill definitely look back into it then because when I called a place to get pricing they were charging $6000 for stem cells and $1000/treatment for Prolo and PRP.

Thanks for the reply.

[Maxpower]

How about TB-500? If the supplements etc don't work as well, and costs are more of a concern, would a 2-3 month cycle of TB-500 be viable for tendon or ligament repairs?

 

 

I just wish it would work for cartilage repairs.

[Astroid]

How is your MCL issue now?

[JCDC85]

Solid now. I found out later it was a partial tear of ACL, MCL and Meniscus. I got to 85-90% healed rather quickly but then my progress slowed significantly. I attribute it to not getting into a strengthening program soon enough and allowing myself to put on some significant weight.

[Juicy]

Peptides

TB-500 + BPC-157 + IGF-1

 

Thank me later. But keep a eye out in good sources.

[Astroid]

I had $450 Prolotherapy in Jan 2015 for a bad lower back(hip) area.. that had given me hell for 10 months.. She used sugar.. the left hip that was also in spasms is 100% better.. the right 70% better and the lower right back up the ribs.. 80%.  I had 2 injections over 3 months or so.. 

 

Plus injections later around my left knee joint, left biceps tendon that had a 10% problem from years before.., as well as in the left shoulder ball joint, and finally trigger points in my neck from a bad fusion operation. 

 

My left knee problem was from walking odd due to the back.. it is 100% better with 1 Ozone , Stem Cell and Growth Hormone injections.. 

Left bicep is 50% better.. I need to have the right one done now. 

Left shoulder with Ozone + = 50% better.  I could not lift anything for 3 days.. so it really hit the spot. 

Neck was 70+ better.. I stopped RX pain killers and relaxers.. have not seen the Pain MD for trigger point injections how.. and do not visit the Chyro or massage as often either.. So I am being paid back over time..

 

This stimulates healing.. in the joints.. especially good for ligaments and tendons..

 

AVOID CARBON 60 BEFORE AND AFTER TREATMENT.. as you want the Inflammation this causes to trigger healing in that area. 

 

 

 

I agree with CoconutDI..

I had prolotherapy done and it is well worth the money.   The items above work for shorterm pain but nothing has fully effected it as much as he prolotherapy.  I've had 5 total injections (2 on left hamstring tenon, 3 on right) over a 4 month period.  After a week after the first injection, I could feel the tightness and soreness decreasing.  After the second, I had almost full range of motion.  I'm considering another injections in my left.

 

[aconita]

Prolozone seems even better (and less discomforting)

[YOLF]

 

Everything you are doing looks very similar to what I'v tried. I've had terrible tendonosis in both hamstrings for over 3 years.  I've tried the following from your list and still use daily:

 

Paleo Diet

Bone both - homemade 2-3 cups daily

Magnesium Oil - homemade

Bulk Cissus Quadrangluarus

Great lakes Collagen

Liposomal Vitamin C

Tumeric/Curcumin

MSM, Glucosamine supp

Traumeel (don't use this anymore.  It works well for thin areas of the skin but not for my glute/hams)

Essential Oils - panaway and deepblue work best.  Homemade using wintergreen, peppermint, camphor and others didn't work as well.

DMSO - Spray on skin prior to using any other topical treatment.  Alone I don't feel much but combined with biofreeze it works great.

Biofreeze - my daily go to.

Sea Mussel

 

I had prolotherapy done and it is well worth the money.   The items above work for shorterm pain but nothing has fully effected it as much as he prolotherapy.  I've had 5 total injections (2 on left hamstring tenon, 3 on right) over a 4 month period.  After a week after the first injection, I could feel the tightness and soreness decreasing.  After the second, I had almost full range of motion.  I'm considering another injections in my left.

 

 

Considering how much I've spent on supplements and massage tools for relief, I might as well have gotton the prolo.  PRP was my next go to for help and may actually be better in your case.  Doing self ASTYM/Graston techniques around the knee will help keep blood flow to the area and promote healing.  I'll be interested in hearing your outcome.  Keep us posted.

 

 

Since you already have the Ester C that you might want to add a gram each of lysine and proline taken in two doses daily with two 500mg doses of Ester C. I initially saw no benefit from C, Proline, and Lysine, but then switched to Ester C and saw immediate improvements. The longer elimination rate/half life makes a huge difference! You've already got the Ester C and the other two are pretty much dirt cheap. I wouldn't count out Chondroitin either if it's not in your MSM/Glucosamine supp. It works wonders.

 

Then there's tocotrienols. They aren't just vitamin E and they vary greatly in their effects compared to tocopherols. Tocotrienols (from red palm oil or annato bean which is sold as "delta fraction") boost a structural protein and factor called Klotho. I don't think I've seen it advertised for joint health etc. but it works wonders. Along with D3 it is also great for cardiovascular health and the D3 will add synergy for joints and cardiovascular health.

 

Calcium Pyruvate is a great form of calcium.Pyruvate is an AHA (Alpha Hydroxy Acid) often used topically to remodel the ECM and make skin look younger. It also works great for joint injuries where low calcium is involved and the D3 will help sequester more of it.

 

Krill Oil may also be good, not sure specifically about MCL injuries, but I'd give it a try. Phosphatidylcholine may be responsible for it's effects so soy lecithin might provide equal benefits? Raw onion, garlic, and ginger powder (I take it with bioperine for more benefits) will improve cholesterol management iirc and would be a nice extension. I take 3g 2x/day of the ginger and 1.5g 2x/day of the others.