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Pyridoxamine: Jarrow Defends its Legal Rights


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#31 motomatt

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 09:53 PM

[quote name='xanadu']What about getting a mix of b6 forms? Sort of like getting mixed tocopherols. Couldn't a manufacturer sell b6 with all 3 forms of it included in the mix? That might be a way to get around the ban. If it was just sold as a b6 supplement and in the fine print you see that all three are present, that should be legal.[/quote]


No, Jarrow Formulas - Pyridoxall has all three, it's being pulled [ang]

[quote]The FDA has made a naturally occuring vitamin illegal except for allowing one company to sell it. This is beyond reproach.
I agree [thumb]

#32 liorrh

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 09:53 PM

good idea xanadu. a mix of 3 forms of vit B6. unique nutrition if you read this pick up the glove.

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#33 xanadu

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Posted 05 September 2005 - 04:46 PM

If Jarrow is pulling theirs, that might be out of an excess of caution. There is a difference between selling the purified Pyridoxamine and selling something with the advertising saying it has it in it and selling a mixture of b6 forms. That is getting down to a legal splitting of hairs which is where it's at anymore. It might be that if someone sells b6 and advertises it as being a mixture of naturally occuring forms of b6 and doesn't even mention Pyridoxamine, they could probably do it and have no problem. By word of mouth, people would find out it has a certain percentage of Pyridoxamine and buy it for that purpose. If the company did not advertise the presence of Pyridoxamine, and did not claim it had the benefits of that substance, I believe they could not be stopped from selling it. You might want to talk with a lawyer before starting a business based on that idea. It might sound silly to go through all that but it might be the only way to get around the lawyers on the other side. Some third party could do an analysis and publish the results. Long as there was no direct connection between the third party and the manufacturor, it should fly.

It's worth looking into.

#34 LifeMirage

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Posted 06 September 2005 - 01:08 AM

If Jarrow is pulling theirs, that might be out of an excess of caution. There is a difference between selling the purified Pyridoxamine and selling something with the advertising saying it has it in it and selling a mixture of b6 forms. That is getting down to a legal splitting of hairs which is where it's at anymore. It might be that if someone sells b6 and advertises it as being a mixture of naturally occuring forms of b6 and doesn't even mention Pyridoxamine, they could probably do it and have no problem. By word of mouth, people would find out it has a certain percentage of Pyridoxamine and buy it for that purpose. If the company did not advertise the presence of Pyridoxamine, and did not claim it had the benefits of that substance, I believe they could not be stopped from selling it. You might want to talk with a lawyer before starting a business based on that idea. It might sound silly to go through all that but it might be the only way to get around the lawyers on the other side. Some third party could do an analysis and publish the results. Long as there was no direct connection between the third party and the manufacturor, it should fly.

It's worth looking into.


Jarrow pulled theirs due to a lawsuit if they did not.....that not really an excess of caution.

#35 xanadu

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Posted 06 September 2005 - 05:33 PM

What I don't understand is if it's a naturally occuring form of b6, how can they have a lock on selling anything that has it in it? That may be more of a legal question than anything else. The Jarrow forumula was called pyridoxall, according to motomatt. That is close to the word pyridoxamine and might be construed to be an infringement on the name itself. If they prominantly mentioned pyridoxamine on the label, that could be seen as selling that as the primary ingredient. My thought was if someone sold a b6 supplement and simply included pyridoxamine in it along with other forms of b6, that might slip under the radar and might survive a legal challenge if one was raised.

What I see happening a lot is very often a company will use the threat of legal action to intimidate and prevent other businesses from doing things they have a legal right to do. One example is the toy chain toys r us. They have successfully intimidated many businesses from using the phrase "r us" or "are us" in their names even when it had to do with products far removed from toys. This is a grey area. I even saw a statement from a company lawyer saying they might go after someone for using "for us" "is us" or anything like that. The rationale is that no one wants to spend thousands of dollars fighting a big company with the possibility of losing and even if you win, the prize is not worth the struggle. As a result, those with deep pockets and aggressive lawyers can grab rights away from other businesses. Consumers in turn are the losers. This is law based on threats and intimidation rather than decided by judges or common sense. I think we are seeing something like that here and it's a shame.

#36 REGIMEN

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Posted 06 September 2005 - 09:46 PM

Someone selling a "Proprietary Blend of B6 Forms" may be our only hope.

psst...that's the code word!...use "that phrase" on your product so we know it has what we want~

#37 johnmk

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 02:47 AM

Looks like one might be able to purchase pyridoxamine here:

http://www.vitaspace...yridoxamine.htm

#38 uniquenutrition

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 04:29 AM

We have 5 bottles left 100 mg 60 capsules.


http://www.uniquenut...id=103&catid=19

Sincerely Steve Sliwa
President
Unique Nutrition


#39 bacopacabana

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 05:23 PM

I've taken a light look into this.

Number one, does anyone know if pyridoxamine was in the market prior to around 1995? If so, it could be grandfathered in.

Number two, does anyone know if pyridoxamine was in the market prior to around 1999, when Biostratum filed its Investigational New Drug (IND) application? If so, it would similarly be considered an old dietary supplement.

I don't know where to go after that - petition congress or something? Anyone know where to get started?

#40 lemon

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 09:21 PM

Pyridoxamine is a natural form of B-6. It occurs naturally in food. It is G.R.A.S. and has absolutely no basis for it's banned status.

We need a revolution !

#41 buck1s

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 03:22 PM

I need to get some FDA enforcement for my exclusivity on water. I've got studies that prove that consuming water prevents death from dehydration. 99.9%. Now where is my attorney? Oh, and while you're at it, don't go breathing my oxygen either.

#42 ajnast4r

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 05:33 PM

just got off the phone with jarrow, they are still shipping their pyroxidal, which has pyridoxamine in it. we also still have VRP pyridoxamine on the shelf so im asuming they are still producing it.

looks like b6 is safe for a while ;)

#43 johnmk

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 08:01 PM

Who is "we," ajnast4r?

#44 LifeMirage

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 08:47 PM

I would guess ajnast4r works in a health food store johnmk.

#45 ajnast4r

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 09:38 PM

I would guess ajnast4r works in a health food store johnmk.


yuppers ;)

#46 rfarris

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 11:42 PM

And clearly, he doesn't wish to share which health food store he works in. Let it go. ;)

#47 ajnast4r

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 12:01 AM

And clearly which health food store he works in.  Let it go.  ;)


i do share it, in private with certain people... i dont like to spam the name here, pete pays for that privilege.

if anyone does want the pyroxodamine, and cant find it somewhere else... just let me know.



i read all 17 pages of that paper, and it appeared to be written by the lawyers of what appeared to be the 1st company in the U.S selling pyroxodamine... and they seemed to be funding some FDA backed studies, and the one pushing the FDA to ban anyone else from selling it. atleast thats what i gathered from the paper.

apparently VPR has pulled it from their formulas, but alot of their old stuff is still floating around. the guy i spoke to at jarrow told me their lawyers did not feel it was a thread, and they would NOT be pulling it from their inventory.


btw, ive seen in this thread people saying pyroxodamine occurs naturally... i wasnt aware it was a natural compound. i thought it was chemically altered pyroxodine?

#48 johnmk

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 12:52 AM

I would like a PM with your info, ajnast4r. :D

#49 ajnast4r

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 02:54 AM

I would like a PM with your info, ajnast4r. :D


why dont you give pete at relentless improvment an email/call first... he should have access to the full jarrow line, and he'd probably be able to get it to you quicker. if he CANT get it for you, than send me a PM.

the product is called Pyridoxall, tha manufact. is Jarrow.

pete
info@RelentlessImprovement.com
925-294-5795 Local
877-448-1625 Toll Free

#50 curious_sle

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 01:34 PM

Hi, first post here so please bear with me.

There are several venues to aquire Pyridoxamine. www.vitaminlady.com carries the jarrows product for ~23$.
Another possible soure seems to be a british product for arround 6 £ called lambert's ( http://www.westons.c...ations_274.html ) that is not forthcomming about it's contents but might 50mg Pyridoxamine and is quite inexpensive. Plus there is this totaly overproced (or underdosed on some accounts) product: http://store.yahoo.c...fe/mesy180.html that contains Pyridoxamine.

Hope this sites won't be shut down immediately. :-). At any rate. I would be interested in knowing of someone found out more on the lambert's product as it is quite inexpensive and from britain thus not readily pulled from the marked.

Regards
Curious
(curious_sle because curious was taken and i use curious in sci.life-extension hence...)

#51 curious_sle

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 01:39 PM

Ok, the labert's product does not contain Pyridoxamine. sorry.

#52 hallucinogen

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Posted 28 October 2005 - 04:33 AM

What should my daily intake of Pyridoxamine diHCL be?

and where Can i read a research on it, on the diHCL form, I couldn't find much.

#53 Guest_da_sense_*

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Posted 28 October 2005 - 09:36 AM

Hm how much are you guys really interested in Pyridoxamine powder? My supplier has a nice offer on it, but minimum quantity to order would be 5 KG. Sale would go thru UN (if Steven agrees of course) and it would be shipped directly from Europe.

#54 liorrh

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Posted 30 October 2005 - 10:03 AM

interested. he quantity depends on the price. I would prob buy a year's supply.

#55 Guest_da_sense_*

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Posted 30 October 2005 - 11:07 PM

Sorry to inform you, but due to possible law suite UN is unable to sell Pyridoxamine from their site.

If enough of you are interested in it, maybe you could make a group buy. Price would be $1000 for 2 KG or $2200 for 5 KG, plus shipping costs. Made and shipped from Europe.

#56 Pablo M

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 02:29 AM

Thought I would inform you all that AOR has a new anti-AGE supplement called "AGE Amidori." They claim to have the first pharmaceutical grade PM available anywhere.
http://aor.ca/products/age_amidori.php

Funny that PM seems to be legal in Canada while it is now in a grey area in the US. This could be a first in the history of dietary supplements.

Edited by dantecubit, 25 February 2006 - 09:23 PM.


#57 hallucinogen

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 04:06 AM

Thought I would inform you all that AOR has a new anti-AGE supplement called "AGE Amidori." They claim to have the first pharmaceutical grade pyridoxamine available anywhere.
http://aor.ca/products/age_amidori.php

Funny that pyridoxamine seems to be legal in Canada while it is now in a grey area in the US. This could be a first in the history of dietary supplements.


Where can I buy pyridoxamine in Canada ? :S (Online if possible)

#58 Pablo M

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 04:11 AM

Where can I buy pyridoxamine in Canada ? :S (Online if possible)

Unknown. Seems unlikely that the pyridoxamine is actually being manufactured in Canada. I suspect it is of European origin.

#59 curious_sle

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 07:30 PM

http://www.vitaminla.../pyridoxall.asp

Edited by curious_sle, 02 November 2005 - 07:49 PM.


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#60 curint

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 11:47 PM

Thought I would inform you all that AOR has a new anti-AGE supplement called "AGE Amidori." They claim to have the first pharmaceutical grade pyridoxamine available anywhere.
http://aor.ca/products/age_amidori.php

Funny that pyridoxamine seems to be legal in Canada while it is now in a grey area in the US. This could be a first in the history of dietary supplements.


Aren't those doses very low?




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