48 replies to this topic

[ImmortalSpace]

 

The paper "Augmentation of UV-induced skin wrinkling by infrared irradiation in hairless mice" actually shows that IR alone was rather harmless compared to UV. There was only a small difference for IR alone at the last measurement and small increases of UV-induced damage before that. Not sure how the intensity of IR they used (2.02 W/cm2) actually translates to real exposure.

 

That's a pretty huge dose of IR compared to sunlight.  Average mid-day sunlight is about 0.1 W/cm2, but that's mostly in the visible.  I'm not sure exactly how much is in the IR, but it's significantly less that 0.1 W/cm2.  Thus the experiment used more than 20X sunlight, and probably closer to 100X or more.  I think that we probably don't need to worry much about IR.

 

 

 

Antioxidants easily solve the problem of IR radiation... either sunscreens with topical antioxidants or oral supplements like Astaxanthin which acts as an internal sunscreen as well. That solves protection from Infrared radiation. 

[shyherdier]

 

 

The paper "Augmentation of UV-induced skin wrinkling by infrared irradiation in hairless mice" actually shows that IR alone was rather harmless compared to UV. There was only a small difference for IR alone at the last measurement and small increases of UV-induced damage before that. Not sure how the intensity of IR they used (2.02 W/cm2) actually translates to real exposure.

 

That's a pretty huge dose of IR compared to sunlight.  Average mid-day sunlight is about 0.1 W/cm2, but that's mostly in the visible.  I'm not sure exactly how much is in the IR, but it's significantly less that 0.1 W/cm2.  Thus the experiment used more than 20X sunlight, and probably closer to 100X or more.  I think that we probably don't need to worry much about IR.

 

 

 

Antioxidants easily solve the problem of IR radiation... either sunscreens with topical antioxidants or oral supplements like Astaxanthin which acts as an internal sunscreen as well. That solves protection from Infrared radiation. 

 

 

Immortal Space,

 

Thanks for your suggestions. I'm really blase about sun avoidance even when I try to remember, so I guess I'm going to pay for it in later life. I live in Australia, so it's kind of hard to avoid the sun. And men do not carry umbrellas in the sun, full stop. That's a no go!

 

About the white tea. Do you mean drinking it or using the tea as a face wash/toner? If you mean drinking (which I have been doing), is it actually possible for the elastane and collagen you mentioned to be absorbed through this method? How do you know that it doesn't just go straight to the gut?

[ImmortalSpace]

 

 

 

The paper "Augmentation of UV-induced skin wrinkling by infrared irradiation in hairless mice" actually shows that IR alone was rather harmless compared to UV. There was only a small difference for IR alone at the last measurement and small increases of UV-induced damage before that. Not sure how the intensity of IR they used (2.02 W/cm2) actually translates to real exposure.

 

That's a pretty huge dose of IR compared to sunlight.  Average mid-day sunlight is about 0.1 W/cm2, but that's mostly in the visible.  I'm not sure exactly how much is in the IR, but it's significantly less that 0.1 W/cm2.  Thus the experiment used more than 20X sunlight, and probably closer to 100X or more.  I think that we probably don't need to worry much about IR.

 

 

 

Antioxidants easily solve the problem of IR radiation... either sunscreens with topical antioxidants or oral supplements like Astaxanthin which acts as an internal sunscreen as well. That solves protection from Infrared radiation. 

 

 

Immortal Space,

 

Thanks for your suggestions. I'm really blase about sun avoidance even when I try to remember, so I guess I'm going to pay for it in later life. I live in Australia, so it's kind of hard to avoid the sun. And men do not carry umbrellas in the sun, full stop. That's a no go!

 

About the white tea. Do you mean drinking it or using the tea as a face wash/toner? If you mean drinking (which I have been doing), is it actually possible for the elastane and collagen you mentioned to be absorbed through this method? How do you know that it doesn't just go straight to the gut?

 

 

Drinking White Tea is what I meant however applying it topically (make sure you warm your face first to open pores) are both useful mainly in repairing sun damage and stopping the degration of collagen and elastin which happen over time and more rapidly during excessive sun exposure (due to MMP enzymes that trigger elastace and collaganase to age skin) .. however drinking white tea is several times extremely useful I cannot stress this enough.. so drink it every day it's been studied by scientists as being the one herb that prevents Elastin and Collagen Degration more than anything else. Source: (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19653897)

 

Since you live in Australlia... I highly highly recommend you look into Astaxanthin supplements- ... it's basically an internal sunscreen- and the most powerful antioxidant known today.. but keep in mind it takes around 4 weeks to build into your system... this will perhaps allow you to be blase about sun protection and get away with it- but of course sunscreen and astaxanthin are best combined. 

For more Elastin production... 

 

If you're concerned about elastin and collagen Make Sure* you consume lots of Vitamin K.. it's found that Vitamin K promotes Elastin.

Derma Rolling... try that to promote more collagen- like I said before... get a Hyluranic Acid and Vitamin C serum because it will be absorbed extremley quickly and as you know Vitamin C and Hyaluranic Acid are key in youthful skin.

Avoid high sugar content- this causes Glycation in your skin... L-Carnosine stops glycation from happening. Always look at the sugar content of what you're consuming. Source: (http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC3008226)

 

Products:

 

Hylauranic acid + Vitamin C Serum:

https://www.etsy.com...tion/1039737184

 

Vitamin C (naturally sourced supplement powder)

http://markusrothkra.../vitamin-c.html

 

L-Carnosine:

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/B0013OSND8

 

Other resources:

http://articles.merc...r-than-100.aspx

 

 

Hope that helps.

Edited by ImmortalSpace, 29 June 2015 - 04:33 PM.

[nowayout]

 

 

 

The paper "Augmentation of UV-induced skin wrinkling by infrared irradiation in hairless mice" actually shows that IR alone was rather harmless compared to UV. There was only a small difference for IR alone at the last measurement and small increases of UV-induced damage before that. Not sure how the intensity of IR they used (2.02 W/cm2) actually translates to real exposure.

 

That's a pretty huge dose of IR compared to sunlight.  Average mid-day sunlight is about 0.1 W/cm2, but that's mostly in the visible.  I'm not sure exactly how much is in the IR, but it's significantly less that 0.1 W/cm2.  Thus the experiment used more than 20X sunlight, and probably closer to 100X or more.  I think that we probably don't need to worry much about IR.

 

 

 

Antioxidants easily solve the problem of IR radiation... either sunscreens with topical antioxidants or oral supplements like Astaxanthin which acts as an internal sunscreen as well. That solves protection from Infrared radiation. 

 

 

Immortal Space,

 

Thanks for your suggestions. I'm really blase about sun avoidance even when I try to remember, so I guess I'm going to pay for it in later life. I live in Australia, so it's kind of hard to avoid the sun. And men do not carry umbrellas in the sun, full stop. That's a no go!

 

Are men allowed to wear hats in Australia?  Admittedly purely from TV and movies, but I was under the impression wearing hats was a thing there.

 

[JBForrester]

- Heyman: is there a german sunscreen that you could recommend or do you just use the asian one?

If you can get Daylong ultra gelfluid SPF 30 it's pretty good. However, the Biore UV Aqua Rich ... is still more cosmetically pleasing so I'll usually wear that instead. There are sunscreens which are cosmetically even better from any random supermarket in Germany, but they oftentimes contain avobenzone so I'm a bit sceptical about these. Any sunscreen is better than none thugh.

Sorry but Biore Aqua Rich has no UVA protection!! And its second ingredient is alcohol, which is terrible for the skin and its lipid barrier. I actually bought it on Amazon after hearing about it on here, and it just wrecked my skin. Yes it's cosmetically pleasing, but with a price. First off, it just wreaks of alcohol (should have listened to that warning sign) but the worst is that I now have the "11s" on my forehead as well as droopier skin! Never did I have either of those before. A big warning from first hand experience. Still think zinc oxide over chemical is hands down the best. Just have to cover up the white with a foundation and setting powder.

[JBForrester]

The paper "Augmentation of UV-induced skin wrinkling by infrared irradiation in hairless mice" actually shows that IR alone was rather harmless compared to UV. There was only a small difference for IR alone at the last measurement and small increases of UV-induced damage before that. Not sure how the intensity of IR they used (2.02 W/cm2) actually translates to real exposure.

That's a pretty huge dose of IR compared to sunlight. Average mid-day sunlight is about 0.1 W/cm2, but that's mostly in the visible. I'm not sure exactly how much is in the IR, but it's significantly less that 0.1 W/cm2. Thus the experiment used more than 20X sunlight, and probably closer to 100X or more. I think that we probably don't need to worry much about IR.

Antioxidants easily solve the problem of IR radiation... either sunscreens with topical antioxidants or oral supplements like Astaxanthin which acts as an internal sunscreen as well. That solves protection from Infrared radiation.

Immortal Space,

Thanks for your suggestions. I'm really blase about sun avoidance even when I try to remember, so I guess I'm going to pay for it in later life. I live in Australia, so it's kind of hard to avoid the sun. And men do not carry umbrellas in the sun, full stop. That's a no go!

Are men allowed to wear hats in Australia? Admittedly purely from TV and movies, but I was under the impression wearing hats was a thing there.

Yes. Depends how far out. Akubras or Jacarus. Some also wear Uggs (city guys).... Many a trend that you won't find in the States.

[Heyman]

 

Sorry but Biore Aqua Rich has no UVA protection!! And its second ingredient is alcohol, which is terrible for the skin and its lipid barrier. I actually bought it on Amazon after hearing about it on here, and it just wrecked my skin. Yes it's cosmetically pleasing, but with a price. First off, it just wreaks of alcohol (should have listened to that warning sign) but the worst is that I now have the "11s" on my forehead as well as droopier skin! Never did I have either of those before. A big warning from first hand experience. Still think zinc oxide over chemical is hands down the best. Just have to cover up the white with a foundation and setting powder.

 

 

Thank you for the input! How long did you use it for? Normally you don't see noticeable skin aging within a person from one year to the next as it just happens too slowly, so this is quite odd even if you had used no sunscreen at all. I'm inclined to try the protection out myself by applying it on one side of my stomach and using a different product on the other and going into the sun for an hour or so...

Edited by Heyman, 01 July 2015 - 12:19 PM.

[YOLF]

- Is there a general consensus about Retinol (not Retin-A), Vitamin C Serum, topical hyaluronic acid on this forum? Would they work?

- Why is Vit K mentioned for skin care?

- Heyman: is there a german sunscreen that you could recommend or do you just use the asian one?

Not sure about the Retinol, it's bad for smokers and former smokers such as my self when taken supplementally.

 

Vitamin C is probably good, and both topical and pretty much any kind of HA taken will work to improve not only skin but maybe even attention span? There are various types of HA, some of the smaller molecule stuff will last longer (about two weeks after stopping it), but it will also be made from the food grade stuff which is also great for joints IME. There are actually many flavors of HA and it certainly plays a role in the youthfulness of skin. However, the profiles of various forms at various ages isn't well described. I've been taking food grade daily and HA type S about once weekly, though I may try a few weeks of using it daily and see what happens... it's pretty expensive. I think we could use some metathought here though to say that the faster metabolisms of younger people would produce more of the short lived variety of HA in the food grade HA supps. Though that's off the top of my head and I don't have much experience with regular dosing of the HA type S. Timing is everything though, I'm thinking the best time to take HA would actually be at night. I notice my skin looks best in the morning and looks older as the day progresses.

 

Various forms of K/K2 are good for skin (K1 and K2-mk7) and even T in men(K2-mk4) and it can certainly improve the skin's appearance, though it's been a while since I read into this, so I don't have any details on it. I did notice the improvement to my skin immediately (2-3 days) when taking the K2, but I've had some side effects with it that may be exclusive to me or it may have to do with Celiacs (which the food grade HA is also great for).

[YOLF]

So how about a sunscreen that can be applied easily or with a luffa sponge at the end of your shower? I could name some great sunscreens, but I really don't use them much as I always miss various areas and it takes too much time to apply. I also don't like the feeling of the stuff on my skin... it gets tacky... I guess that's the waterproofing? 

 

So what's out there around SPF100 that goes on easily and isn't  made for swimming at the beach?

[nowayout]

So what's out there around SPF100 that goes on easily and isn't  made for swimming at the beach?

 

A wide-brimmed hat.

[YOLF]

The Chinese students by me use modernized parasols when they walk around in the summer. It would be effective and I see no reason not to copy a smart behavior. I'm sure it's also fairly inexpensive and durable. I'll have to get one.

 

But you can't always carry around a parasol... what else can we do?

 

If no one's mentioned it, C60 also confers some level of sun protection, though not as complete as avoiding the photodamage in the first place.

[Heyman]

So what's out there around SPF100 that goes on easily and isn't  made for swimming at the beach?

 

SPF 100 is difficult to find, but there are plenty of cosmetically good SPF 50 sunscreens. Now people will argue that other sunscreens might be better, but any sunscreen is better than none. So in your case find something without water protection, without zinc or titanium dioxide. Biore UV Aqua Rich is very cosmetically elegant, some people doubt the UVA protection. I personally don't think a large company would lie about their PPD. There are sunscreens in any supermarket which use only avobenzone for UVA protection. These might not be optimal, but better than nothing and if you only expose yourself for a short period before the avobenzone degrades they might be allright.

[Brett Black]

Don't forget that it is usually suggested to re-apply sunscreen throughout the day, not uncommonly every 2 hours, and more if you are active/sweating. Then if one is using any active topicals like tretinoin or ascorbic acid, the sunscreen probably needs to be removed at the end of the day to prevent it acting as a barrier to absorption, and sunscreen is often not so easily removed (it is generally designed to be rather tenacious just so it is effective), and successfully removing the sunscreen quite possibly strips the natural oils from your skin at the same time. On top of that many/most sunscreens will leave a white cast, result in an oil slick on the face, be gritty, leave a weird feeling on the skin, transfer to clothing/phone, smell weird etc etc. Then whilst trying to find a sunscreen that suffers least from those aforementioned downsides you have to try to find one that also has a hopefully decent active ingredient formulation (in terms of safety and efficacy), which slims your choice down further and forces you to make compromises on the other qualities. Then to top it all off perhaps the chemicals may have unknown undesirable effects long term. Yep...I haven't (thus) enjoyed my experiences searching for and using sunscreens....

[YOLF]

So what about the UV damage that occurs? Is there anything that can remove it? Maybe a dye pulse laser? See here for details of what I'm talking about.

[ImmortalSpace]

Here's my updated routine for Sun protection:

 

Astaxanthin (A secondary Antioxidant 800 times more powerful than Vitamin C without turning into a Pro-Oxidant, protects against UV rays) Source1 Source2

GliSODin (Formula of Superoxide Dismutase (SOD) a primary super antioxidant found naturally in the body- only known antioxidant that targets super oxidants free radicals induced by UV rays .) Source1 Source2

White Tea (Repairs Sun damage, inhibits Collaganase and Elastace) Source

Geinstein (Inhibits Granzyme B inhibitor known as proteinase inhibitor 9 (PI9) which results in sun protected skin that's smoother) Source1 Source2 Source3 Source4 Source 5

 

As far as sunscreens go, one with antioxidants is deal because it will protect against the much less talked about infrared radiation from the sun which is also very damaging- This one has great reviews:

 

 

 

Edited by ImmortalSpace, 06 July 2015 - 01:20 AM.

[mustardseed41]

Lycopene and Lutein should be on the list.

Some kind of Blueberry extract sounds promising.

http://www.lef.org/M...riction/Page-01

 

Edited by mustardseed41, 06 July 2015 - 02:20 AM.

[katrina]

Edited...

 

Oh my just realized your pic is male.  Well, all of this still applies, except maybe the beauty boxes.  LOL...  I now have my husband addicted to expensive soaps and moisturizers.  He was having an issue with some patches on his face and they are all gone now.  A lot of men have terrible face skin and don't have to.  There is a German line for men that is pretty kewl.  It is called Face Lube for men,

________________________________________________________

 

Oh my....Looks like I am at home in this topic.  I am a skin care junkie, and right now my skin is better than that of many 30 something year olds.  I am 52 and wrinkle free.

 

As for UV protection, get a evening job like I have.   I actually do everything at night, even gardening.  My back yard is lit up like day.  Driving to work etc, a 50 SPF is fine if not overkill.
 

Anyways, if you want any specific tips, just ask me,  But the biggest is one you won't believe.  I have used a buff puff for nearly 40 years along with hot water.  And I scrub very well....

 

The funny thing is that I have over 30 or more different face cleansers and the least gentilest are the ones I keep reaching for.  Gotta get rid of that wrinkle prone top layer of cells.  A nice alcohol free toner was a nice addition in my 50's.

 

MitoQ gives my skin that youthful pink glow. I add this under my moisturizer.

 

 I apply Sciote peptide defense around and under my eyes, along with a bit on my problem areas.

 

At bedtime, a 20% vitamin c serum such as Obagi, applied on top of Retin A gel is great also.  Or use MitoQ a second time.  Then apply a good night cream on top.  Vit C serums are great for your arms also under your rich moisturizing cream.

 

For the backs of my hands, I use mitoQ serum.  Then on top of this I add June Jacobs face moisturizer.  My hands look better than 20 years ago.  We are talking $119 and $130 priced items,  Skin care is not cheap.

 

Make certain to use all face care products on your decollete.   Buff puff, serum and a spf moisturizer.  

 

Buy many lux  beauty boxes to find the products that work best for you.  I have many many huge boxes on unopened products let alone opened ones,

 

Lastly I really do think that low dose grape seed does me a lot of good.  And sometimes I take low dose resveratrol also.  Oh this reminds me....  Resv added to a good face cream does remove dark spots.  But I think Mitoq does the same.

 

Ps. last xmas me and my daughter held our arms up together and you could not tell a difference in age,  I took a pic I was so impressed.  You see I was sort of crazed that she had a crease above the bridge of her nose.  I am twice her age and don't have that.  so I was teaching her the effects of good skin care.  Anyways, i ran out and bought her some buff puffs, shea and buttermilk soap, and now provide her with 100% of her skin care products,  That's what moms are for!

 

Use your best skin care at night, since this is when it will work the best!

 

 

 

Edited by katrina, 06 July 2015 - 09:02 AM.

[nowayout]

Or you could use botox, which actually may help regenerate collagen and elastin according to new research. 

 

http://www.webmd.com...rejuvenate-skin

 

 

"It's temporary, but it's not a byproduct of swelling, and it's not a byproduct of muscle contraction. It's something that's intrinsic to the skin itself," said Dr. Catherine Winslow, an Indianapolis plastic surgeon who wrote an editorial accompanying the new study.

 

[kurdishfella]

What race are you? Caucasians seem to have the best skin in terms of healthy it looks. But also seem for their skin to age faster than others(age faster outside not on the inside) I would avoid any type of cream or makeup products as they do bad in the long run and also block the sun from shining on your skin for vitamin D which has different effect than the vitamin d from food.

Edited by kurdishfella, 20 April 2021 - 01:55 PM.