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what are some nootropics to avoid falling in love?

love oxytocin neurotransmitter nootropic

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#91 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 01:55 PM

 

Paul Erdos would know. Adolf Hitler would know (bad example). No one can really "test" for ADHD as far as blood test go, it's just what the symptoms are if it's all there then one may lack executive function (lack of dopamine) therefore one must supplement it with a dopamine releaser (amphetamine). I would assume if one doesn't have ADHD, supplementing with amphetamine could still do wonders. It should double one's "drive". Not like there's a test to determine one is ADHD, just saying, one could use more dopamine with stimulants other than just Starbucks.

 

 

Actually, it seems regular use of amphetamines seem to have a lot of possible long-term beneficial effects that are rather surprising and counterintuitive, at list within those who have ADHD.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23178911
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23247506
http://bit.ly/1FueZTV
http://archpsyc.jama...ticleid=1485446

 

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make.



#92 Flex

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 06:44 PM

Hitler got a cognitive decline at the end. I´m not sure whether Amphetamines are responsible but they could.



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#93 eon

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 08:40 PM

Source? Hitler's cognitive decline came when he blew his head off! LOL. Other Nazis lived close to 100 years old. Nothing lasts forever...

 

Hitler would have just been a regular soldier if it wasn't for meth...just saying.

 

Hitler got a cognitive decline at the end. I´m not sure whether Amphetamines are responsible but they could.

 


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#94 Flex

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 09:07 PM

Adolf Hitler's medical care.

For the last nine years of his life Adolf Hitler, a lifelong hypochondriac had as his physician Dr Theodor Morell. Hitler's mood swings, Parkinson's disease, gastro-intestinal symptoms, skin problems and steady decline until his suicide in 1945 are documented by reliable observers and historians, and in Morell's diaries. The bizarre and unorthodox medications given to Hitler, often for undisclosed reasons, include topical cocaine, injected amphetamines, glucose, testosterone, estradiol, and corticosteroids. In addition, he was given a preparation made from a gun cleaner, a compound of strychnine and atropine, an extract of seminal vesicles, and numerous vitamins and 'tonics'. It seems possible that some of Hitler's behaviour, illnesses and suffering can be attributed to his medical care. Whether he blindly accepted such unorthodox medications or demanded them is unclear

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15825245



#95 eon

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 11:41 PM

OK so it was a combination of a lot of things, I doubt it's the amphetamines. His mood swings may have come from the steroids. I forgot what his parents died of but they died when he was a child so I'm assuming he was already predisposed to an early death as well. I think he knew it so he cashed out before death kills him.

 

Maybe he had a Michael Jackson way of demanding "tonics" or "drugs"? I think he was just too in love with himself that he would not let anything or anyone kill him but himself (suicide is a selfish act after all).

 

 

Adolf Hitler's medical care.

For the last nine years of his life Adolf Hitler, a lifelong hypochondriac had as his physician Dr Theodor Morell. Hitler's mood swings, Parkinson's disease, gastro-intestinal symptoms, skin problems and steady decline until his suicide in 1945 are documented by reliable observers and historians, and in Morell's diaries. The bizarre and unorthodox medications given to Hitler, often for undisclosed reasons, include topical cocaine, injected amphetamines, glucose, testosterone, estradiol, and corticosteroids. In addition, he was given a preparation made from a gun cleaner, a compound of strychnine and atropine, an extract of seminal vesicles, and numerous vitamins and 'tonics'. It seems possible that some of Hitler's behaviour, illnesses and suffering can be attributed to his medical care. Whether he blindly accepted such unorthodox medications or demanded them is unclear

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15825245

 


Edited by eon, 21 June 2015 - 11:48 PM.


#96 mtn2011

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 12:52 AM

abundance mentality, always have the ability to walk out and have a new women in your arms in short order. You need to have options and she needs to know it at all times.

 

 

 



#97 Duchykins

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:12 AM

 

How did the migraines come about? Psilocybin mushrooms are known to cure cluster headaches. Not sure what the actual cause of it since I've never had one and haven't looked into it much, but my past favorite nootropic called Vinpocetine is also known to cure cluster headaches as well as tinnitus and many other things. It was one of the first nootropics I have ever tried so it's a special one in my heart. Right now I have no need for it but a bottle of it is in my cabinet just in case. Try Vinpocetine and report back here when your headache is gone!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vinpocetine and anything that causes significant vasodilation will trigger very nasty migraines in me.  The pain of a true migraine involves inflammation and vasodilation, irritating key major nerves in the brain.  Bad bad bad.

 

Vasodilators can help people who get tension-type headaches because those headaches usually involve vasoconstriction.  They are not migraines.

 

Different types of migraine have different causes and we don't even really know everything about them.  However, in my own personal case, I know that I have a genetic mutation that somehow interferes with my brain clearing glutamate.  Every problem I have outside of migraine (autistic and ADHD tendencies, sensory overstimulation, depressive/anxious/insomnia) can be traced back to a fundamental issue with too much glutamate, not enough dopamine (recently discovered to be a major regulator of glutamate), not enough GABA, maybe not enough serotonin, with excess acetylcholine and histamine.  My brain is always "on" and is not very adaptable to change.  It's gifted me with a nice IQ but cursed me in just about every other aspect of life, which is something I would gladly reverse if I could.

 

There is an interesting bit dealing with tyramine.  Consumption of significant amounts of phenylalanine or tyrosine in food tend to trigger ugly migraines because of the tyramine that is synthed from them.  Migraine brains seem to be hypersensitive to tyramine.  Cutting back on these amino acids in the diet is not really an option because you need these to synth dopamine, and later, norepinephrine.  So it could be that for some unknown reason, the phenylalanine -> tyrosine -> l-dopa -> dopamine -> norepinephrine -> epinephrine  path and the phenylalaine -> tyrosine -> tyramine path are abnormal in migraineurs, where too much tyrosine is becoming tyramine and not enough tyrosine is going towards making l-dopa/dopamine.

 

I've always had blood pressure that settles at the low end of "normal", 100/50 to 90/50, never going above 120/60 even during periods of high stress, anxiety or stimulant consumption, indicating that my blood vessels may always be slightly dilated in their "normal" state.  

 

I also seem to have a problem with producing mitochondrial energy and/or transporting it--which can make a brain tend towards excess extracellular glutamate, as well as fuck with your body's ability to break down histamine, acetylcholine, and synthesize other neurotransmitters--so that might be the ultimate bottom-line cause of most if not all of my problems.  Which would be genetic.  

 

In ten years of experimentation, the only things that consistently work to keep the frequency of migraine attacks low (to about 3-5 a month on average) are:  regular sleep schedule, anything that keeps cellular energy up (this includes avoiding skipping meals, supplements that support mitochondrial energy and transport), things that keep dopamine up, things that keep GABA up, things that keep histamine down.  Things that keep serotonin up are always hit-and-miss so now I tend to be very wary of them.  I do best on low protein, high carb diets.  I've always naturally gravitated towards that kind of diet without even realizing it, and when I deliberately change things to include more protein I always have a problem.  Aside from getting phenylalanine and tyrosine from protein sources, there are other things that always trigger migraines if I get too much on a bad day: glutamic acid (duh), aspartic acid (acts as excitor at glutamate receptors), arginine (perhaps because it is a moderate vasodilator).  I have repeatedly tested this with small doses of these aminos as individual supplements.  Additionally, I cannot do protein powders of any kind, I've tried the whey, the hemp, the soy and even fucking collagen triggers migraines.  Which really fucking sucks because I like to take tryptophan in the late afternoon when serotonin is low.  I think it might have something to do with these being processed and isolated from other chemicals naturally occurring in the sources.  Because I regularly drink soy milk, can eat a bowl full of edamame, and can tolerate most dairy (except super aged cheese).

 

 

And that's the short version of things.

 

As you can see, it's a mess.


Edited by Duchykins, 22 June 2015 - 02:39 AM.


#98 eon

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:42 AM

The truth.

 

abundance mentality, always have the ability to walk out and have a new women in your arms in short order. You need to have options and she needs to know it at all times.

 



#99 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 03:25 AM

 

 

How did the migraines come about? Psilocybin mushrooms are known to cure cluster headaches. Not sure what the actual cause of it since I've never had one and haven't looked into it much, but my past favorite nootropic called Vinpocetine is also known to cure cluster headaches as well as tinnitus and many other things. It was one of the first nootropics I have ever tried so it's a special one in my heart. Right now I have no need for it but a bottle of it is in my cabinet just in case. Try Vinpocetine and report back here when your headache is gone!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vinpocetine and anything that causes significant vasodilation will trigger very nasty migraines in me.  The pain of a true migraine involves inflammation and vasodilation, irritating key major nerves in the brain.  Bad bad bad.

 

Vasodilators can help people who get tension-type headaches because those headaches usually involve vasoconstriction.  They are not migraines.

 

Different types of migraine have different causes and we don't even really know everything about them.  However, in my own personal case, I know that I have a genetic mutation that somehow interferes with my brain clearing glutamate.  Every problem I have outside of migraine (autistic and ADHD tendencies, sensory overstimulation, depressive/anxious/insomnia) can be traced back to a fundamental issue with too much glutamate, not enough dopamine (recently discovered to be a major regulator of glutamate), not enough GABA, maybe not enough serotonin, with excess acetylcholine and histamine.  My brain is always "on" and is not very adaptable to change.  It's gifted me with a nice IQ but cursed me in just about every other aspect of life, which is something I would gladly reverse if I could.

 

There is an interesting bit dealing with tyramine.  Consumption of significant amounts of phenylalanine or tyrosine in food tend to trigger ugly migraines because of the tyramine that is synthed from them.  Migraine brains seem to be hypersensitive to tyramine.  Cutting back on these amino acids in the diet is not really an option because you need these to synth dopamine, and later, norepinephrine.  So it could be that for some unknown reason, the phenylalanine -> tyrosine -> l-dopa -> dopamine -> norepinephrine -> epinephrine  path and the phenylalaine -> tyrosine -> tyramine path are abnormal in migraineurs, where too much tyrosine is becoming tyramine and not enough tyrosine is going towards making l-dopa/dopamine.

 

I've always had blood pressure that settles at the low end of "normal", 100/50 to 90/50, never going above 120/60 even during periods of high stress, anxiety or stimulant consumption, indicating that my blood vessels may always be slightly dilated in their "normal" state.  

 

I also seem to have a problem with producing mitochondrial energy and/or transporting it--which can make a brain tend towards excess extracellular glutamate, as well as fuck with your body's ability to break down histamine, acetylcholine, and synthesize other neurotransmitters--so that might be the ultimate bottom-line cause of most if not all of my problems.  Which would be genetic.  

 

In ten years of experimentation, the only things that consistently work to keep the frequency of migraine attacks low (to about 3-5 a month on average) are:  regular sleep schedule, anything that keeps cellular energy up (this includes avoiding skipping meals, supplements that support mitochondrial energy and transport), things that keep dopamine up, things that keep GABA up, things that keep histamine down.  Things that keep serotonin up are always hit-and-miss so now I tend to be very wary of them.  I do best on low protein, high carb diets.  I've always naturally gravitated towards that kind of diet without even realizing it, and when I deliberately change things to include more protein I always have a problem.  Aside from getting phenylalanine and tyrosine from protein sources, there are other things that always trigger migraines if I get too much on a bad day: glutamic acid (duh), aspartic acid (acts as excitor at glutamate receptors), arginine (perhaps because it is a moderate vasodilator).  I have repeatedly tested this with small doses of these aminos as individual supplements.  Additionally, I cannot do protein powders of any kind, I've tried the whey, the hemp, the soy and even fucking collagen triggers migraines.  Which really fucking sucks because I like to take tryptophan in the late afternoon when serotonin is low.  I think it might have something to do with these being processed and isolated from other chemicals naturally occurring in the sources.  Because I regularly drink soy milk, can eat a bowl full of edamame, and can tolerate most dairy (except super aged cheese).

 

 

And that's the short version of things.

 

As you can see, it's a mess.

 

It seems that anything that causes excitation with you causes migraines. All excitation is linked to the glutaminergic system. Given the way you have described your symptoms, I highly, highly recommend trying Memantine for your migraines. Start at a low 2.5mg and up the dose by that much every two weeks. It seems like a long time, but the body takes a while to adjust to Memantine. It might make all the difference for you.



#100 Duchykins

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 03:47 AM

Thank you for that. It was on my list of things to try next but I'll move that up toward the top. When I see my doc next month I can see if he's comfortable prescribing it. We're at the point now where he trusts my judgment and knowledge on stuff like this and would give me almost anything I ask for. Except oxytocin but he said thats because more study should be done on it first before he would be okay giving it to someone.

#101 eon

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 03:50 AM

Prescription oxytocin, wouldn't this make me fall in love more? LOL. I wonder what it's prescribed for?

 

Now let's look at what drugs.com has to say about it:

 

Oxytocin is a natural hormone that causes the uterus to contract. Oxytocin is used to induce labor or strengthen labor contractions during childbirth, and to control bleeding after childbirth. Oxytocin is also used to stimulate uterine contractions in a woman with an incomplete or threatened miscarriage....

 

http://www.drugs.com...rm=oxytocin&a=1

 

Seems as if oxytocin is for abortion and or labor induction as its other medical indications? So much for a "love hormone!"  :wub: 

 

Maybe that's how love feels like, you feel as if you were welcomed (as in given birth to) then next thing you know you were actually being "aborted"! This is why I am NOT ready for it. LOL.

 

Thank you for that. It was on my list of things to try next but I'll move that up toward the top. When I see my doc next month I can see if he's comfortable prescribing it. We're at the point now where he trusts my judgment and knowledge on stuff like this and would give me almost anything I ask for. Except oxytocin but he said thats because more study should be done on it first before he would be okay giving it to someone.

 


Edited by eon, 22 June 2015 - 03:59 AM.


#102 Duchykins

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 04:00 AM

I asked him because I wanted to experiment and see if it could help me with autistic social problems and bonding with family members. There is some very very early research on this in the scientific literature.

A common use of prescription oxytocin is as something often called pitocin which is used intravenously to induce labor or strenthen labor contractions, or after birth to help the uterus contract back down. That shit sucks, by the way (personal experience lol). It also looks like it could be harmful to newborns. To my knowledge pitocin does not cross the BBB well, if at all

I asked him for the nasal spray though which is different

Edited by Duchykins, 22 June 2015 - 04:04 AM.


#103 eon

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 04:09 AM

What's the nasal spray called and is it prescription and is it for what medical indications, not abortion?

 

I asked him because I wanted to experiment and see if it could help me with autistic social problems and bonding with family members. There is some very very early research on this in the scientific literature.

A common use of prescription oxytocin is as something often called pitocin which is used intravenously to induce labor or strenthen labor contractions, or after birth to help the uterus contract back down. That shit sucks, by the way (personal experience lol). It also looks like it could be harmful to newborns. To my knowledge pitocin does not cross the BBB well, if at all

I asked him for the nasal spray though which is different

 



#104 Duchykins

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 04:15 AM

The nasal spray is available over the counter as various brands but nearly all of these are unreliable partly due to oxytocin's fragility. Prescription is best for ensuring quality. It's prescribed for breastfeeding for women who have trouble triggering letdowns, and for certain kinds of sexual dysfunction. More recently its sometimes been prescribed to autistics.

The dosage is not nearly strong enough to cause labor-strength contractions

Edited by Duchykins, 22 June 2015 - 04:17 AM.


#105 eon

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 04:29 AM

Here's a very interesting article about oxytocin:

 

The dark side of oxytocin, much more than just a “love hormone”

 

http://blogs.discove...e/#.VYeLMvlViko

 

"Oxytocin is a versatile actor, whose resume includes all sorts of jobs in sex, reproductionsocial behaviour and emotions.  It can increase trust among people and make them more cooperative (this works in meerkats, too). It can increase the social skills of autistic people. It’s released during orgasm. It affects lactating breasts, contracting wombs and the behaviour of sheep mothers towards their newly born lambs. The list goes on: drug addiction, generosity, depression, empathy, learning, memory.

 

Despite these many roles, oxytocin is often reduced to a misleading label. While “hormone of love” may be great for catchy headlines and compelling marketing slogans, they are ultimately misleading. Jennifer Bartz from the Mount Sinai School of Medicine has found that oxytocin can have completely opposite effects on the way people behave, depending on how they view their relationships to other people."

 

Seems as if oxytocin enhances emotions, whatever they may be. I'm an emotional person, maybe I should not even look into the oxytocin nasal spray, if anything, in this whole thread I was asking to block oxytocin. If it's a bad emotion, that could be trouble. If things are great, it's beautiful, if things go sour (which they eventually will), it's hell on Earth.

 

Curious if there is an oxytocin inducing perfume though. Might smell good on me.


Edited by eon, 22 June 2015 - 04:33 AM.


#106 Duchykins

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 04:39 AM

Yup I've read about that. I wasn't surprised by it though because no chemical affects everyone the same way. Predispositions matter.

Did you know regular use of ambien increases sleep spindle density? Some people found that their memory recall improved. Others reported the same, except that the memories associated with negative events became stronger than any other kind of memory. Which makes sense since we're wired to remember negative things more clearly than anything else (a basic survival mechanism).

#107 eon

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 05:07 AM

Some comments by people on the article link above mentioned that oxytocin is at high amounts in the amygdala. Not sure if this is true but there seem to be a link considering oxytocin seem to be similar to "fight or flight" but more "love or hate" instead and this somewhat gets stored in the amygdala as well IMO.

 

I found another great article that mentioned about an oxytocin fragrance:

 

Oxytocin’s other side

 

http://www.apa.org/m...3/oxytocin.aspx

 

"One company, Vero Labs in Boca Raton, Fla., has even put it in a cologne-like spray, marketed as “Liquid Trust”: Fifty dollars buys a two-month supply that promises consumers “confidence in a bottle,” according to its website."

 

I don't get why this company never mentioned what "note" the fragrance has and or what's in it. Must be a secret? I will e-mail them. Maybe it's a true hormone and lack fragrance and or "note"? Maybe they're selling water sprays for $80? Not sure how oxytocin would have a "note' when it is a hormone and it's being sold as a cologne, not a nasal spray. A nasal spray is understandable.

 

https://www.verolabs.com/

 

More coverage about this company in the article below:

 

Love Potion Number 10: Oxytocin Spray Said to Increase Attraction

 

And more love scents here:

 

http://love-scent.co...ones-p-108.html

 

 


Edited by eon, 22 June 2015 - 05:19 AM.


#108 Duchykins

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:56 PM

Oxytocin tends to inhibit fear. This can manifest a number of different ways.

#109 Flex

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 09:27 PM

Oxytocin tend to cause antisocial behavior to strangers but prosocial to known people, according to new researches.

I´m too lazy to deliver any references, its the science-news from the past months.


Edited by Flex, 22 June 2015 - 09:36 PM.


#110 eon

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:24 AM

If inhibiting fear means to block it, I think it may be ideal then considering my other thread about "how to not have fear" is one of my topic of interest. Although being fearless is my ideal personality, I know it can have consequences as well if I take too much chances due to lack of fear. Hopefully my common sense is still great. I may be low on oxytocin (if that's even possible) due to being abandoned by my mother at such a young age (we have reconciled since but I still do not trust her). Not sure if such experience of abandonment could contribute to lowering of one's "love hormone"? Maybe this could be the reason I don't want to fall in love because of fear of abandonment? I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this and perhaps reverse the damage.

 

 

Oxytocin tends to inhibit fear. This can manifest a number of different ways.

 


Edited by eon, 23 June 2015 - 06:48 AM.


#111 eon

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:46 AM

This may depend on how the person is wired? If the person lacks both prosocial behavior towards known and unknown people, would oxytocin then be a good idea to "supplement" with? I tend to deal well with strangers than known people so I'm the opposite of what you described. Something about the "unknowns" make me want to get to know them whereas people that I already know and think are not my ideal types to deal with daily tend to be ignored by me, but nothing antisocial (not that I feel anyway). Maybe I am a bit antisocial (but not aggressive) and living in a rough city this can be an asset.

 

Would 1 "spray" of oxytocin change me to being antisocial or not? Could it be reversed if I stop using oxytocin? Would it be a good idea to use it (the perfumes anyway) when going on a date or social setting but avoid it when I need less of it? It would be nice to let loose a bit and not be self conscious and be more approachable (usually when one is relaxed and appear innocent, one becomes approachable). Would oxytocin then make me naive when I need to be? LOL? 

 

Oxytocin tend to cause antisocial behavior to strangers but prosocial to known people, according to new researches.

I´m too lazy to deliver any references, its the science-news from the past months.

 


Edited by eon, 23 June 2015 - 06:56 AM.


#112 Major Legend

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 09:21 AM

Oxytocin is also a double edged sword, too much of it - it lowers your paranoia and makes you easily trust and like everyone. This is not as pleasant or as useful as it sounds. It's like ecstasy minus the euphoria and warm feelings, but only left with the part where you make a fool of yourself...

 

There isn't anything in my mind that can stop falling in love apart from increasing apathy/dissociation certain SSRIs/Antipsychotics....its human nature to fall in love.  I think people seem to be more troubled by lethargy and apathy, otherwise why does it feel so great to be younger?



#113 eon

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 09:47 AM

It's what makes one old (love). IMO. It makes you "grow" after several breakups and backstabbings and heartaches.

 

I would take oxytocin as how you described it to be, less paranoia and more trust, but I'd like my common sense to still be in tact and not diminish once I have too much oxytocin. Or if I feel as if I'm starting to make a fool of my self, I can taper off it or block it if possible. Love can make one make a fool of themselves as well. People do kill for it, you know? Seems as if there's more paranoia and distrust among lovers (who's cheating on who, who would breakup first with who, etc.). Everything is a double edge sword, just pick which sword you want to use.


Edited by eon, 23 June 2015 - 09:52 AM.


#114 Valor5

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 11:33 AM

The nootropic I suggest is knowledge. One way to know if a woman is not going to be loyal or stick around is by assessing her happiness. First, you have to think about what is causing her to be happy and what is not causing her to be happy. What are the things that you do that are causing her unhappiness. To avoid falling is love is not natural and therefore not healthy. The Catholic nuns and priests live unnatural lives. This breeds problems far worse. A woman can be great and necessary like your breathing. What are you doing to cause women to cheat on you, break up with you? I really want to know!

 

 

It's what makes one old (love). IMO. It makes you "grow" after several breakups and backstabbings and heartaches.

 

I would take oxytocin as how you described it to be, less paranoia and more trust, but I'd like my common sense to still be in tact and not diminish once I have too much oxytocin. Or if I feel as if I'm starting to make a fool of my self, I can taper off it or block it if possible. Love can make one make a fool of themselves as well. People do kill for it, you know? Seems as if there's more paranoia and distrust among lovers (who's cheating on who, who would breakup first with who, etc.). Everything is a double edge sword, just pick which sword you want to use.

 


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#115 eon

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 11:41 AM

I wouldn't know the answer other than living in a free country, anyone can do what they want. I would assume if and when a woman cheats on me it's because she's thinking I'm also cheating on her, which may also be true. Breakups happen to everyone. The point of the thread is I don't want to fall in love since I am more of a lust type of guy. It's just sometimes you end up falling for it and I was just wondering if oxytocin is involved here. Maybe it was the dopamine rush I had been getting from Vyvanse (amphetamine). 

 

 

 

The nootropic I suggest is knowledge. One way to know if a woman is not going to be loyal or stick around is by assessing her happiness. First, you have to think about what is causing her to be happy and what is not causing her to be happy. What are the things that you do that are causing her unhappiness. To avoid falling is love is not natural and therefore not healthy. The Catholic nuns and priests live unnatural lives. This breeds problems far worse. A woman can be great and necessary like your breathing. What are you doing to cause women to cheat on you, break up with you? I really want to know!

 

 

It's what makes one old (love). IMO. It makes you "grow" after several breakups and backstabbings and heartaches.

 

I would take oxytocin as how you described it to be, less paranoia and more trust, but I'd like my common sense to still be in tact and not diminish once I have too much oxytocin. Or if I feel as if I'm starting to make a fool of my self, I can taper off it or block it if possible. Love can make one make a fool of themselves as well. People do kill for it, you know? Seems as if there's more paranoia and distrust among lovers (who's cheating on who, who would breakup first with who, etc.). Everything is a double edge sword, just pick which sword you want to use.

 

 



#116 ceridwen

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 11:52 AM

Oxytocin is the love hormone. :-D



#117 Valor5

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 01:07 PM

You are complaining because you got caught cheating and got dumped in consequence? Have you ever heard of the golden rule? I am speaking to myself also because we all have the same propensities and problems but yeah, that would be an issue of lack of self-control and morality. As far as oxytocin is concerned I would not mess with your systems.

 

If a woman cheats on you, move on and find another one. I don't see why it needs to be complicated. It is simple if she likes you and cares about you and is interested in making you happy and comfortable then stick with her and do what you can to appreciate her, give her attention, maker her happy etc. When she stops these manners and attitudes then if then try to find if the fault is in yourself or if she is cheating and move on.

 

 

 

I wouldn't know the answer other than living in a free country, anyone can do what they want. I would assume if and when a woman cheats on me it's because she's thinking I'm also cheating on her, which may also be true. Breakups happen to everyone. The point of the thread is I don't want to fall in love since I am more of a lust type of guy. It's just sometimes you end up falling for it and I was just wondering if oxytocin is involved here. Maybe it was the dopamine rush I had been getting from Vyvanse (amphetamine). 

 

 

 

The nootropic I suggest is knowledge. One way to know if a woman is not going to be loyal or stick around is by assessing her happiness. First, you have to think about what is causing her to be happy and what is not causing her to be happy. What are the things that you do that are causing her unhappiness. To avoid falling is love is not natural and therefore not healthy. The Catholic nuns and priests live unnatural lives. This breeds problems far worse. A woman can be great and necessary like your breathing. What are you doing to cause women to cheat on you, break up with you? I really want to know!

 

 

It's what makes one old (love). IMO. It makes you "grow" after several breakups and backstabbings and heartaches.

 

I would take oxytocin as how you described it to be, less paranoia and more trust, but I'd like my common sense to still be in tact and not diminish once I have too much oxytocin. Or if I feel as if I'm starting to make a fool of my self, I can taper off it or block it if possible. Love can make one make a fool of themselves as well. People do kill for it, you know? Seems as if there's more paranoia and distrust among lovers (who's cheating on who, who would breakup first with who, etc.). Everything is a double edge sword, just pick which sword you want to use.

 

 

 


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#118 Duchykins

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 05:28 AM

Women who are truly content in their current relationship are unlikely to cheat even if she meets a man she is immediately and powerfully attracted to (which happens all the time and is partly due to scent indicating a high degree of genetic compatibility; women have generally better olfactory capabilities than men  because it pays to be more discriminating this way; nature rewards this with more successful offspring) simply because over the generations, including primate ancestors, females who automatically and consistently mind the "big picture", better oversee the current situation and better calculate future consequences of actions based on current knowledge (looking for stability vs chaos, safe bets vs unknowns) are much more successful in passing on their genes and raising successful offspring (as opposed to just having offspring or raising unsuccessful offspring which is very nearly the same thing as not reproducing at all).  This is more a matter of fundamental sexual selection than culture.  This is one of the reasons women are famously unremitting analyzers; evolution consistently rewards women who constantly or periodically re-evaluate their mate (and living situation) and make changes accordingly (why women get bored much faster in marriage than men do).  Men or males of most social species rarely have reason to do this simply because the parental burden tended to lie more with females, this means there is not much evolutionary pressure on the males to change in this regard, so they don't (though males can still change via inheriting genes from more successfully discriminating females).  Examination/analysis/inspection, whatever you want to call it, is so important that men and women developed different visual capabilities; men have somewhat tunnel-like vision that lets them have better focus on objects in bright light and further away, as well as tracking  moving objects, while women have better night vision, color perception and excellent peripheral vision that lets them see more ... of just more.  She's eyeballing you up and down without even looking directly you nor you being even aware of it, she is sizing you up.  Then she'll analyze her competition: other women.  This is also one of the reasons women are not "more emotional" or in less control of their desires etc than men (rather, the reverse tends to be true).  Evolution does not favor unstable, erratic, or shortsighted females in any of the social mammals no matter how many times she reproduces, which is a selective pressure that is much stronger on females than males, so it will not effect change in males very much (relatively) except through genes he inherits from his mother (although excessively erratic males will be more disruptive to the group, disorder which is detrimental to the group's success, and thus tend to be low-status, shunned by the group, possibly killed, and be unable to reproduce--but this is a selective pressure that sits a little further in the background).  This will be detrimental to their offsprings' future success in reproducing and parenting their own, vs offspring of other females who are stable... so those who are more level-headed will tend to out-breed those who are not.  That's the foundation for the evolution of morality in social mammals, but that's a different topic for a different time.

 

On the other hand, evolution does tend reward women who cheat if it leads to offspring simply because it often means she selected a male that had better genes than her current mate. Especially if she successfully hides paternity (if necessary to maintain stability).  This is why mens' testes haven't significantly reduced in mass relative to body mass (nor a reduction trend in the prominence glans coronal ridge, which is a special feature in unique in humans probably due entirely to female choice and sperm competition) despite generations of cultures forcing women into marriages or, more importantly, keeping women in marriages with men they are not really attracted to; enough of those women (possibly up to 1/3) still found males better suited to their genes (via adultery) that sperm competition between males was still a relevant and active selective pressure throughout antiquity.  It is also a significant factor that women are more likely to become pregnant if they are aroused and achieve orgasm during a session of sex (as often occurs with genetically compatible men that will elicit sexual attraction), less likely to become pregnant under stress or with unwanted men, and also more likely to spontaneously abort products of conception from undesired men, as well as more likely to spontaneously abort if the woman is living in an unhappy or stressful environment.  That's just an expression of our evolutionary heritage and is something that is nearly ubiquitous in females in sexually reproducing species.

 

Erm, yeah, I rambled quite a bit.  Autism + evolutionary biology special interest = pedantic boring trailing-off-topic speeches.  Apologies.   :laugh:


Edited by Duchykins, 24 June 2015 - 06:09 AM.


#119 eon

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 07:52 AM

Duchykins, what you explained and described here may work for frogs, but not for humans in a Facebook era/generation but it's an interesting read. How you described how females select their mate also may come across as she wants someone financially set, etc. while usually the guy likes his women to be whores, no money needed, just a nice fleshy whore.
 
It's hard to know if one is content with one another. There is a saying that "satisfaction is the death of desire" and I tend to feel and think that people have desires much more than what they think they are content with. The thread though is never about cheating and so on but more on how to not fall in love. LOL.


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#120 Major Legend

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 10:34 AM

There is enough variety in humans to correctly believe that no two situations are exactly identical. Yes gender is biased against certain traits, but they are not absolutes.

 

For example I am straight but I would be considered to have more female like abilities than a guy, my object tracking abilities are poor, my coordination is bad, but my colour perception, creative ability and empathy (building connections with others) is pretty great. I am also much more in touch with my emotions than most men. This does not make me gay or wrong, every guy or girl has some mix of both female and male attributes.

 

I actually find it slightly off putting the emphasis society puts on being male and being female, most males are athletically better than females, but there are also females who can kick your ass. Male and female are labels with restricting connotations. Humans are far more complex than most other animals, if they were not relationships with the opposite sex would be simple, its the mixture of both our evolutionary rat brain and our higher processes that makes humans very hard to predict (not a good thing from a control freak point of view).

 

What I mean is that there have been men who try to put females into labels, and females put males into certain labels such as alpha beta etc, but really everyone is different, they just have base similarities. For example yes woman is going to see social value much more than men due to evolutionary psychology, much like men are going to be attracted to big boobs and good skin, but does it mean that all men and women are not loyal, and can't understand things in a beyond animal context - absolutely not. 

 

To put this into perspective an alpha male (jocks), often are not as financially successful as (betas), finance is much much harder to build in modern society than building social skills. In the long run jocks end up as club promotes, whilsts betas end up as something that generates alot of economic value. Whilst you can argue that an Alpha is more attractive from a evolutionary basis (if alpha and beta even really exist as black and white as it sounds), they cannot use their alpha attributes to generate financial success, financial success that allows manipulation of the real world to make flirting more fun, such as venues, travel etc. Not to mention economic leverage will allow many more perks than just attracting females, such as eating good food, traveling, helping others or building your own dream company. See how the real world has only about half relation with the animal world?

 

For example a man can divorce a woman for a younger more beautiful wife, yet still remains in his heart very much in love with his first wife, because in his mind he understood everything they have been through together, this dualistic understanding of things is what makes our brains much more powerful than an animal or a computer for now anyways. Labels are for simple people and people who would prefer a shortcut for analysing things - this will not lead to any happiness in understanding human relationships!


Edited by Major Legend, 24 June 2015 - 10:40 AM.

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