33 replies to this topic

[ImmortalSpace]

I'm considering buying GliSODIN in conjunction with Astaxanthin for both primary and Secondary antioxidant effects.. Does anyone have experience using GliSODin? Does it actually work like it says it does?

[ImmortalSpace]

Also, has anyone found a chart showing levels of SOD's (Superoxide dismutase) with age and when they start decreasing and at what rate? 

[niner]

I don't see how a protein can be taken orally and not treated the way the body treats most protein:  As food.  And if the body doesn't hydrolyze it, how does it get in?  The gut tends to keep things like that out.  In the event that it somehow gets in, how does it get where it's needed?  GliSODin is just about the last thing I would consider for sun protection.  How about sunscreen?  At least it's been shown to work.   Astaxanthin might work for sun(burn) protection.  C60oo (and presumably MitoQ) will suppress sunburn, but I don't know if any of the sunburn-suppressive antioxidants are preventing photodamage.  They probably prevent some damage, but I doubt they are a substitute for sunscreen

Edited by niner, 05 July 2015 - 05:12 AM.

[ImmortalSpace]

I don't see how a protein can be taken orally and not treated the way the body treats most protein:  As food.  And if the body doesn't hydrolyze it, how does it get in?  The gut tends to keep things like that out.  In the event that it somehow gets in, how does it get where it's needed?  GliSODin is just about the last thing I would consider for sun protection.  How about sunscreen?  At least it's been shown to work.   Astaxanthin might work for sun(burn) protection.  C60oo (and presumably MitoQ) will suppress sunburn, but I don't know if any of the sunburn-suppressive antioxidants are preventing photodamage.  The probably present some damage, but I doubt they are a substitute for sunscreen

 

 

Well i did the research and theres a clinical trial on GliSODin right now that is evidence that it works.. it's a special formula that doesn't destroyed by stomach acid.

 

"

Background

Superoxide dismutase (SOD) reduces the reactive oxygen species formation associated with oxidative stress. An imbalance between free radicals and antioxidants can lead to accelerated aging. GliSODin® Skin Nutrients Advanced Anti-Aging Formula (GAAF) is an SOD-containing dietary nutricosmetic formulated with other nutraceuticals that promote improvements in the structure and function of the skin, including hydration, elasticity, structural integrity, and photoaging caused by oxidative stress. Tazarotene cream 0.1% (TAZ) is a United States Food and Drug Administration-approved drug indicated for use in the mitigation of facial fine wrinkling, facial mottled hyper- and hypopigmentation, and benign facial lentigines when taken in conjunction with a comprehensive skin care and sun avoidance program.

Objective

To determine if the antioxidant, anti-aging, hydrating and skin-rejuvenating properties of GAAF complement the retinoic actions of TAZ to improve the structure and function of facial skin.

Method

A 90-day comparative study of ten subjects with facial photodamage; daily topical application of TAZ was used in combination with three capsules of GAAF (780 mg each) or placebo orally, with food, per the randomization allocation.

Results

After 90 days of treatment, TAZ alone and in combination with GAAF improved fine wrinkles (↓1.2 versus 2.0), mottled hyperpigmentation (↓2.2 versus 2.8) and overall photodamage (↓1.0 versus 1.8), as well as patient-reported response to treatment (↓2.0 versus 1.6). At week 12, TAZ/GAAF combination treatment (Group A) versus TAZ treatment alone (Group C) was of significant clinical benefit, with respect to fine wrinkling (14.7%/41.7%), overall photodamage (15.6%/53.0%), skin moisture (19.1%/103.2%), skin elasticity (12.8%/87.7%), and response to treatment (8.8%/21.4%).

Conclusion"

 

www. NCBI. nlm. nih. gov/ pmc/articles/PMC4026586/ (I can't post links for some reason but this is the refrence) 

 

 

My only question is of what are the rate at which SOD levels decline with age.

 

Astaxanthin might work for sun(burn) protection. 

 

And Astaxanthin Does work on both UVA and UVB. Not might. You're statement was mis informative. 

 

Edited by ImmortalSpace, 05 July 2015 - 12:13 AM.

[YOLF]

I have some SOD that I take orally from time to time. It's pretty cheap, but I see definite improvements to my skin when I take it. Glutathione has also been shown to be absorbed very readily and accumulate in tissues (though more slowly absorbed oral glutathione doesn't show up in blood tests). I don't see why SOD wouldn't be absorbed and used too. If nothing else it gets broken down into more SOD cofactors. In fact I was considering a group buy to get it in bulk. I'd love to take a ton of it and see what happens.

 

I'm just a little worried that it may cause dependence the way Vitamin C does when taken in large doses.

 

All the weird units that companies use to sell the stuff makes things a little confusing too, it's hard to compare or even know what and how much you're taking if want to take more than the dose specified, do a loading dose, or replicate study results with it. Definitely just need a nice pile of the pharma grade main ingredient.

 

Is it lipophilic? 

[YOLF]

Oh, and the age adjusted levels are out there, I saw them on some marketing materials used by a european distributor. I'm sure they could hook you up with the details or the study they got the information from.

[YOLF]

Oops, missed the sun protection part. But it certainly improves old skin and that's what you're really looking for. I think antioxidants in general will protect you from sun damage. But here are some interesting pdfs:

 

SOD for Cellulite

SOD for Everyday Performance

 

My thinking is that if cellulite/adipocytes get more uniform in distribution that this stuff even effects the ECM and ICM or would be a reasonable candidate for investigation for this purpose.

[niner]

 

I don't see how a protein can be taken orally and not treated the way the body treats most protein:  As food.  And if the body doesn't hydrolyze it, how does it get in?  The gut tends to keep things like that out.  In the event that it somehow gets in, how does it get where it's needed?  GliSODin is just about the last thing I would consider for sun protection.  How about sunscreen?  At least it's been shown to work.   Astaxanthin might work for sun(burn) protection.  C60oo (and presumably MitoQ) will suppress sunburn, but I don't know if any of the sunburn-suppressive antioxidants are preventing photodamage.  The probably present some damage, but I doubt they are a substitute for sunscreen

 

Well i did the research and theres a clinical trial on GliSODin right now that is evidence that it works.. it's a special formula that doesn't destroyed by stomach acid.

 

My only question is of what are the rate at which SOD levels decline with age.

 

Astaxanthin might work for sun(burn) protection. 

 

And Astaxanthin Does work on both UVA and UVB. Not might. You're statement was mis informative. 

 

In this study, tazarotene was used +/- the following mixture of substances:

 

The active ingredients of the GAAF formula include 1) GliSODin^®, which provides the SOD that boosts the body’s antioxidant defense system and helps neutralize free radicals in the skin and reduces inflammation; 2) krill oil, another antioxidant whose omega-3s hydrate the skin and also reduces inflammation; 3) zinc, which reduces inflammation within the skin (and thereby ameliorates such conditions as adult acne); 4) vitamin D, which significantly enhances skin metabolism and growth; 5) sea buckthorn berry oil, which hydrates skin and helps make skin tone more uniform; 6) cacao (cocoa) bean extract, which improves dermal circulation and thereby helps deliver key nutrients to the skin; 7) hyaluronic acid, which hydrates skin and enriches its elasticity; and 8) red clover isoflavones, which both hydrate skin and help modulate the hormonal fluctuations that can mar skin complexion.

 

There's no evidence that GliSODin was effective here, because the various other compounds it was combined with all have effects on skin.  I'm concerned that the study was funded by the maker of GliSODin, and one of the authors is an employee of theirs.

 

What do you mean by "astaxanthin does work on both UVA and UVB"?   Do you mean that it reduces long term damage to the skin, or reduces erythema, or what?  What is the evidence?  I certainly don't want to misinform anyone, although I think your use of that term is a bit hyperbolic.

 

Here is a good review of the available evidence on GliSODin.  While there is no evidence that GliSODin's SOD crosses the intestinal barrier, it does have a number of biological effects.  Essentially, no one knows how it works.  There are speculations that it acts through small messenger molecules (e.g. NO) but such hypotheses have not been tested.   It does not appear to be as simple as topping up an inadequate supply of endogenous SOD.  Endogenous SOD levels are variable, and respond to ROS challenge.  They could be raised by exercise, for example.

[ImmortalSpace]

I have not seen any information regarding SOD's being lipophilic.. and by the way for the doses it seems that 780 mg is the ideal dose to take- mainly because that's what they used in this study 

( http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4026586/ )

 

and the results seem promising from improved photodamage, elastin, skin moisture elasticity, etc.. you can read it it's very informative on GliSODin and somewhat lengthy.. but keep in mind they used an expensive form of Glisodin which contained a extra set of herbs in the capsule which I listed below and their said function in case you want to buy them separately to follow through with the similar results as the study-

Using the below supplements in conjunction with SOD could provide the same results as the study rather than buying that expensive version which literally costs almost a hundred dollars.

 

With that said are you using SOD's with Gliadin coating? Assuming you're using the SOD's with the Gliadin coating how is you're expierence with it so far? Do you think it would help to take GliSODin even when you're young since presumably SOD's a said amount every year? Keep in mind as well that If you're using SOD without a Gliadin coating (Protective wheat protein essential as an SOD carrier) it's practically useless because Gliadin used as a carrier for SOD's delay the degration during digestion and increases anti oxidants. Here's my reference for that:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15742357

 

"The effects of supplementation for 28 days with a standardized melon SOD extract either combined (Glisodin) or not with gliadin, were evaluated on various oxidative-stress biomarkers. As already described there was no change either in superoxide dismutase, catalase or glutathione peroxidase activities in blood circulation or in the liver following non-protected SOD supplementation. However, animals supplemented with Glisodin showed a significant elevation in circulated antioxidant enzymes activities, correlated with an increased resistance of red blood cells to oxidative stress-induced hemolysis."

 

btw in case you haven't caught on yet, SOD combined with a Gliadin coating is known as GliSODin. (:

 

Krill oil (Antioxidant whose omega 3's hydrate skin, reduce inflammation)

Zinc (Reduces inflammation in skin (ameliorates such conditions as adult acne)

Vitamin D (Significantly enhances skin metabolism and growth)

Sea Buckthron Berry Oil (Hydrates skin and makes skin tone more uniform)

Cacao (Coco) bean extract (Improves dermal ciruclation thereby deliver nutrients to skin

Hyaluronic acid (Hydrates skin and enriches elasticity)

Red clover Isoflavones (Hydrate skin and help modulate hormonal fluctations that mar skin complexion

 

Edited by ImmortalSpace, 05 July 2015 - 05:15 AM.

[ImmortalSpace]

 

 

I don't see how a protein can be taken orally and not treated the way the body treats most protein:  As food.  And if the body doesn't hydrolyze it, how does it get in?  The gut tends to keep things like that out.  In the event that it somehow gets in, how does it get where it's needed?  GliSODin is just about the last thing I would consider for sun protection.  How about sunscreen?  At least it's been shown to work.   Astaxanthin might work for sun(burn) protection.  C60oo (and presumably MitoQ) will suppress sunburn, but I don't know if any of the sunburn-suppressive antioxidants are preventing photodamage.  The probably present some damage, but I doubt they are a substitute for sunscreen

 

Well i did the research and theres a clinical trial on GliSODin right now that is evidence that it works.. it's a special formula that doesn't destroyed by stomach acid.

 

My only question is of what are the rate at which SOD levels decline with age.

 

Astaxanthin might work for sun(burn) protection. 

 

And Astaxanthin Does work on both UVA and UVB. Not might. You're statement was mis informative. 

 

In this study, tazarotene was used +/- the following mixture of substances:

 

The active ingredients of the GAAF formula include 1) GliSODin^®, which provides the SOD that boosts the body’s antioxidant defense system and helps neutralize free radicals in the skin and reduces inflammation; 2) krill oil, another antioxidant whose omega-3s hydrate the skin and also reduces inflammation; 3) zinc, which reduces inflammation within the skin (and thereby ameliorates such conditions as adult acne); 4) vitamin D, which significantly enhances skin metabolism and growth; 5) sea buckthorn berry oil, which hydrates skin and helps make skin tone more uniform; 6) cacao (cocoa) bean extract, which improves dermal circulation and thereby helps deliver key nutrients to the skin; 7) hyaluronic acid, which hydrates skin and enriches its elasticity; and 8) red clover isoflavones, which both hydrate skin and help modulate the hormonal fluctuations that can mar skin complexion.

 

There's no evidence that GliSODin was effective here, because the various other compounds it was combined with all have effects on skin.  I'm concerned that the study was funded by the maker of GliSODin, and one of the authors is an employee of theirs.

 

What do you mean by "astaxanthin does work on both UVA and UVB"?   Do you mean that it reduces long term damage to the skin, or reduces erythema, or what?  What is the evidence?  I certainly don't want to misinform anyone, although I think your use of that term is a bit hyperbolic.

 

Here is a good review of the available evidence on GliSODin.  While there is no evidence that GliSODin's SOD crosses the intestinal barrier, it does have a number of biological effects.  Essentially, no one knows how it works.  There are speculations that it acts through small messenger molecules (e.g. NO) but such hypotheses have not been tested.   It does not appear to be as simple as topping up an inadequate supply of endogenous SOD.  Endogenous SOD levels are variable, and respond to ROS challenge.  They could be raised by exercise, for example.

 

 

Astaxanthin does protect against UVA rays, and I'm not just saying that- here's my Refrence:

 

"UVA radiation elicited a significant increase in the gene expression of MMP-1 as well as SFE/NEP (to a lesser extent) which was followed by distinct increases in their protein and enzymatic activity levels. The addition of AX at concentrations of 4-8 microM immediately after UVA exposure significantly attenuated the induction of MMP-1 and SFE/NEP expression elicited by UVA at the gene, protein and activity levels although both the UVA stimulation and the subsequent AX inhibition were greater for MMP-1 than for SFE/NEP. Analysis of the UVA-induced release of cytokines revealed that UVA significantly stimulated only the secretion of IL-6 among the cytokines tested and that AX significantly diminished only the IL-6 secretion.

CONCLUSION:

These findings indicate that, based on different effective concentrations of AX, a major mode of action leading to the inhibition elicited by AX depends on inhibition of UVA effects of the reactive oxygen species-directed signaling cascade, but not on interruption of the IL-6-mediated signaling cascade. We hypothesize that AX would have a significant benefit on protecting against UVA-induced skin photo-aging such as sagging and wrinkles."

 

 

GliSODin as I've said, is SOD with a Gliadin coating that protects it from being destroyed in the gastrointestinal tract. I listed the reference above 

Edited by ImmortalSpace, 05 July 2015 - 05:23 AM.

[YOLF]

What are your thoughts on Extramel or vegetal sources of SOD?

 

Found this for those of us who prefer powdered supps:

http://www.vitacost....ranules-17-9-oz

I'm particularly interested in forms of SOD that don't contain gluten and wheat.

[ImmortalSpace]

The powedered version won't work- and vegetal sources are quickly destroyed in the digestive process.

 

That's why I said you need a Gliadin coating in order for SOD's to work.

It's not necessarily a gluten preference but rather that wheat protein Gliadin is the only one i know of shown to protect Superoxide Dismutase during digestion and make it usable. 

 

As you can see above, Gliadin delays the release whereas Free SOD's (with no coating) are rapidly destroyed with percent of SOD activity. 

 

As far as supplements.. this is the best deal I've found so far in regards to amount of capsules and mg's 

 

 

Edited by ImmortalSpace, 05 July 2015 - 03:09 PM.

[ImmortalSpace]

Also note this has a whole lot of anti aging affects. For example... Secondary antioxidants (which you get from food) are quickly destroyed when eradicating a free radical but primary antioxidants such as Superoxide Dismutase react to free radicals at almost quicker than light speeds but can go on and on for quite a while destroying free radicals which in turn means you conserve more of your secondary anti-oxidants as they don't use themselves up. 

Edited by ImmortalSpace, 05 July 2015 - 03:15 PM.

[niner]

 

What do you mean by "astaxanthin does work on both UVA and UVB"?   Do you mean that it reduces long term damage to the skin, or reduces erythema, or what?  What is the evidence?  I certainly don't want to misinform anyone, although I think your use of that term is a bit hyperbolic.

 

Here is a good review of the available evidence on GliSODin.  While there is no evidence that GliSODin's SOD crosses the intestinal barrier, it does have a number of biological effects.  Essentially, no one knows how it works.  There are speculations that it acts through small messenger molecules (e.g. NO) but such hypotheses have not been tested.   It does not appear to be as simple as topping up an inadequate supply of endogenous SOD.  Endogenous SOD levels are variable, and respond to ROS challenge.  They could be raised by exercise, for example.

 

Astaxanthin does protect against UVA rays, and I'm not just saying that- here's my Refrence:

 

"UVA radiation elicited a significant increase in the gene expression of MMP-1 as well as SFE/NEP (to a lesser extent) which was followed by distinct increases in their protein and enzymatic activity levels. The addition of AX at concentrations of 4-8 microM immediately after UVA exposure significantly attenuated the induction of MMP-1 and SFE/NEP expression elicited by UVA at the gene, protein and activity levels although both the UVA stimulation and the subsequent AX inhibition were greater for MMP-1 than for SFE/NEP. Analysis of the UVA-induced release of cytokines revealed that UVA significantly stimulated only the secretion of IL-6 among the cytokines tested and that AX significantly diminished only the IL-6 secretion.

CONCLUSION:

These findings indicate that, based on different effective concentrations of AX, a major mode of action leading to the inhibition elicited by AX depends on inhibition of UVA effects of the reactive oxygen species-directed signaling cascade, but not on interruption of the IL-6-mediated signaling cascade. We hypothesize that AX would have a significant benefit on protecting against UVA-induced skin photo-aging such as sagging and wrinkles."

 

GliSODin as I've said, is SOD with a Gliadin coating that protects it from being destroyed in the gastrointestinal tract. I listed the reference above 

 

That experiment shows us that astaxanthin (AX) affects certain UVA response pathways when cells in a test tube are bathed in a relatively high concentration of AX, but the idea that it would provide photoprotection in a human is, as they state, a hypothesis.  Maybe it works, and maybe it doesn't, depending, among other things, on what concentrations you're able to reach in your skin, and for how long, from an oral dose.  You'd need to do tests in people to sort it out.  I suspect it's useful to some degree, but we don't know how useful, and haven't considered possible side effects.

 

Gliadin does protect vegetal SOD in the digestive tract, and the combination has some positive effects on measurable parameters of antioxidant defenses.  As I mentioned above, the SOD itself is not getting into the body; it works in a different way that is not well understood.  Whether or not GliSODin provides photoprotection doesn't appear to have been established.

[ImmortalSpace]

 

 

What do you mean by "astaxanthin does work on both UVA and UVB"?   Do you mean that it reduces long term damage to the skin, or reduces erythema, or what?  What is the evidence?  I certainly don't want to misinform anyone, although I think your use of that term is a bit hyperbolic.

 

Here is a good review of the available evidence on GliSODin.  While there is no evidence that GliSODin's SOD crosses the intestinal barrier, it does have a number of biological effects.  Essentially, no one knows how it works.  There are speculations that it acts through small messenger molecules (e.g. NO) but such hypotheses have not been tested.   It does not appear to be as simple as topping up an inadequate supply of endogenous SOD.  Endogenous SOD levels are variable, and respond to ROS challenge.  They could be raised by exercise, for example.

 

Astaxanthin does protect against UVA rays, and I'm not just saying that- here's my Refrence:

 

"UVA radiation elicited a significant increase in the gene expression of MMP-1 as well as SFE/NEP (to a lesser extent) which was followed by distinct increases in their protein and enzymatic activity levels. The addition of AX at concentrations of 4-8 microM immediately after UVA exposure significantly attenuated the induction of MMP-1 and SFE/NEP expression elicited by UVA at the gene, protein and activity levels although both the UVA stimulation and the subsequent AX inhibition were greater for MMP-1 than for SFE/NEP. Analysis of the UVA-induced release of cytokines revealed that UVA significantly stimulated only the secretion of IL-6 among the cytokines tested and that AX significantly diminished only the IL-6 secretion.

CONCLUSION:

These findings indicate that, based on different effective concentrations of AX, a major mode of action leading to the inhibition elicited by AX depends on inhibition of UVA effects of the reactive oxygen species-directed signaling cascade, but not on interruption of the IL-6-mediated signaling cascade. We hypothesize that AX would have a significant benefit on protecting against UVA-induced skin photo-aging such as sagging and wrinkles."

 

GliSODin as I've said, is SOD with a Gliadin coating that protects it from being destroyed in the gastrointestinal tract. I listed the reference above 

 

That experiment shows us that astaxanthin (AX) affects certain UVA response pathways when cells in a test tube are bathed in a relatively high concentration of AX, but the idea that it would provide photoprotection in a human is, as they state, a hypothesis.  Maybe it works, and maybe it doesn't, depending, among other things, on what concentrations you're able to reach in your skin, and for how long, from an oral dose.  You'd need to do tests in people to sort it out.  I suspect it's useful to some degree, but we don't know how useful, and haven't considered possible side effects.

 

Gliadin does protect vegetal SOD in the digestive tract, and the combination has some positive effects on measurable parameters of antioxidant defenses.  As I mentioned above, the SOD itself is not getting into the body; it works in a different way that is not well understood.  Whether or not GliSODin provides photoprotection doesn't appear to have been established.

 

 

They used cultured human dermal fibroblasts aka skin samples but the results still indicate protection from UV

 

"Astaxanthin, a xanthophyll carotenoid, inhibits ultraviolet-induced apoptosis in keratinocytes."

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24521161

 

 

 

Modulatory effects of an algal extract containing astaxanthin on UVA-irradiated cells in culture

http://www.jdsjourna.../abstract?cc=y=

" The protective effects of the proprietary algal extract, which contained a high level of the carotenoid astaxanthin, were compared with synthetic astaxanthin. DNA damage was assessed using the single cell gel electrophoresis or comet assay. In 1BR-3 cells, synthetic astaxanthin prevented UVA-induced DNA damage at all concentrations (10 nM, 100 nM, 10 μM) tested. In addition, the synthetic carotenoid also prevented DNA damage in both the HEMAc and CaCo-2 cells. The algal extract displayed protection against UVA-induced DNA damage when the equivalent of 10 μM astaxanthin was added to all three-cell types, however, at the lower concentrations (10 and 100 nM) no significant protection was evident. There was a 4.6-fold increase in astaxanthin content of CaCo-2 cells exposed to the synthetic compound and a 2.5-fold increase in cells exposed to algal extract. In 1BR-3 cells, exposure to UVA for 2 h resulted in a significant induction of cellular superoxide dismutase (SOD) activity, coupled with a marked decrease in cellular glutathione (GSH) content."

 

Also Astaxanthin is well known to improve skin texture and moisture content, etc.. heres the study on that.

Cosmetic benefits of astaxanthin on humans subjects* Kumi Tominaga, Nobuko Hongo, Mariko Karato and Eiji Yamashita*

 

http://www.actabp.pl/pdf/1_2012/43.pdf

 

"Two human clinical studies were performed. One was an open-label non-controlled study involving 30 healthy female subjects for 8 weeks. Significant improvements were observed by combining 6 mg per day oral supplementation and 2 ml (78.9 μM solution) per day topical application of astaxanthin. Astaxanthin derived from the microalgae, Haematococcus pluvialis showed improvements in skin wrinkle (crow’s feet at week-8), age spot size (cheek at week-8), elasticity (crow’s feet at week-8), skin texture (cheek at week- 4), moisture content of corneocyte layer (cheek in 10 dry skin subjects at week-8) and corneocyte condition (cheek at week-8). It may suggest that astaxanthin derived from H. pluvialis can improve skin condition in all layers such as corneocyte layer, epidermis, basal layer and dermis by combining oral supplementation and topical treatment"

 

Gliadin does protect vegetal SOD in the digestive tract, and the combination has some positive effects on measurable parameters of antioxidant defenses.  As I mentioned above, the SOD itself is not getting into the body; it works in a different way that is not well understood.  Whether or not GliSODin provides photoprotection doesn't appear to have been established.

 

Yes, that's what I already said. Gliadin does protect SOD Only* if it is encapsulated. That's what GliSODin is, it's Superoxide Dismutase encapsulated with Gliadin as I have mentioned which is why it works. 

[ImmortalSpace]

Also pertaining to GliSODin from the source you sent, it says it does have effects on UV radiation

 

"The beneficial effects of dietary melon SOD combined with gliadin in other health-related areas also have been considered. For instance, oxidative skin damage as a result of ultraviolet (UV) exposure can be ameliorated by SOD–gliadin treatment. This was reported in a human study where participants from different phototypes were tested for UV-induced skin redness [38]. Compared with the control group, SOD-treated phenotype II participants showed an increase in the minimum amount of UV radiation needed to induce sunburn, together with a faster recovery from induced redness"

http://www.nutrition...(14)00444-4/pdf

[niner]

 

That experiment shows us that astaxanthin (AX) affects certain UVA response pathways when cells in a test tube are bathed in a relatively high concentration of AX, but the idea that it would provide photoprotection in a human is, as they state, a hypothesis.  Maybe it works, and maybe it doesn't, depending, among other things, on what concentrations you're able to reach in your skin, and for how long, from an oral dose.  You'd need to do tests in people to sort it out.  I suspect it's useful to some degree, but we don't know how useful, and haven't considered possible side effects.

 

Gliadin does protect vegetal SOD in the digestive tract, and the combination has some positive effects on measurable parameters of antioxidant defenses.  As I mentioned above, the SOD itself is not getting into the body; it works in a different way that is not well understood.  Whether or not GliSODin provides photoprotection doesn't appear to have been established.

 

Also Astaxanthin is well known to improve skin texture and moisture content, etc.. heres the study on that.

Cosmetic benefits of astaxanthin on humans subjects* Kumi Tominaga, Nobuko Hongo, Mariko Karato and Eiji Yamashita*

 

http://www.actabp.pl/pdf/1_2012/43.pdf

 

"Two human clinical studies were performed. One was an open-label non-controlled study involving 30 healthy female subjects for 8 weeks. Significant improvements were observed by combining 6 mg per day oral supplementation and 2 ml (78.9 μM solution) per day topical application of astaxanthin. Astaxanthin derived from the microalgae, Haematococcus pluvialis showed improvements in skin wrinkle (crow’s feet at week-8), age spot size (cheek at week-8), elasticity (crow’s feet at week-8), skin texture (cheek at week- 4), moisture content of corneocyte layer (cheek in 10 dry skin subjects at week-8) and corneocyte condition (cheek at week-8). It may suggest that astaxanthin derived from H. pluvialis can improve skin condition in all layers such as corneocyte layer, epidermis, basal layer and dermis by combining oral supplementation and topical treatment"

 

Thanks for finding that human study of astaxanthin oral / topical combination.   That demonstrates that the combination improves photodamaged skin.  We don't know if a strictly oral version would do the same thing, although it might be beneficial.  The various in vitro studies are great for sorting out mechanisms, but they are notorious for not being reproduced in humans, so I wouldn't recommend using them as evidence that something will work. in vivo.

 

Also pertaining to GliSODin from the source you sent, it says it does have effects on UV radiation

 

"The beneficial effects of dietary melon SOD combined with gliadin in other health-related areas also have been considered. For instance, oxidative skin damage as a result of ultraviolet (UV) exposure can be ameliorated by SOD–gliadin treatment. This was reported in a human study where participants from different phototypes were tested for UV-induced skin redness [38]. Compared with the control group, SOD-treated phenotype II participants showed an increase in the minimum amount of UV radiation needed to induce sunburn, together with a faster recovery from induced redness"

http://www.nutrition...(14)00444-4/pdf

 

OK, this is good.  This is showing a reduction of erythema, or redness, for a given UV dose.  That's a good sign, but we don't know whether GliSODin is acting on inflammatory pathways or is actually reducing damage.  What you need is a longer term study that looks at photodamage.  A reduction in erythema is a good thing, but I wouldn't skip the sunscreen.

[Heyman]

The question is also how much the erythemic dose was increased. I've read similar studies on beta carotene increasing the erythemic dose, but the protection does not come close to what you can get with a good sunscreen. An SPF of 1.2 or 2 or even 4 is not all that great. If you combine it with sunscreen this is great, but I see people using only antioxidants or only oral supplements.

[YOLF]

The powedered version won't work- and vegetal sources are quickly destroyed in the digestive process.

 

That's why I said you need a Gliadin coating in order for SOD's to work.

It's not necessarily a gluten preference but rather that wheat protein Gliadin is the only one i know of shown to protect Superoxide Dismutase during digestion and make it usable. 

 

As you can see above, Gliadin delays the release whereas Free SOD's (with no coating) are rapidly destroyed with percent of SOD activity. 

 

As far as supplements.. this is the best deal I've found so far in regards to amount of capsules and mg's 

I'm not sure that's so bad, it might not last long, but you could just take it every 2-5 hours... you can get SOD for $6.20 for 90 doses... Take it with some time released C and it might last a bit longer too. I guess it depends on how much you value convenience and whether or not you can risk the gluten.

[ImmortalSpace]

 

The powedered version won't work- and vegetal sources are quickly destroyed in the digestive process.

 

That's why I said you need a Gliadin coating in order for SOD's to work.

It's not necessarily a gluten preference but rather that wheat protein Gliadin is the only one i know of shown to protect Superoxide Dismutase during digestion and make it usable. 

 

As you can see above, Gliadin delays the release whereas Free SOD's (with no coating) are rapidly destroyed with percent of SOD activity. 

 

As far as supplements.. this is the best deal I've found so far in regards to amount of capsules and mg's 

I'm not sure that's so bad, it might not last long, but you could just take it every 2-5 hours... you can get SOD for $6.20 for 90 doses... Take it with some time released C and it might last a bit longer too. I guess it depends on how much you value convenience and whether or not you can risk the gluten.

 

 

 

It's a huge deal and the results are dramatic in terms of the amount destroyed.

 

For anyone reading this considering getting SOD... make sure it's in a Gliadin Capsule otherwise it's practically useless. 

[YOLF]

With glutathione we see that it's rapidly absorbed into tissues and quite bioavailable, are we sure it's actually being destroyed? For the AOEP, I think we need to see tissue tests for definitive answers. The slower release is attractive though. Given that that chart is in minutes (just noticed that), I have a feeling they are using injection for comparison rather than oral which would also absorb more slowly if taken with fiber etc. I'm skeptical that it would be totally destroyed in the GI tract, though I am sure that the gliadin protects it.

[ImmortalSpace]

With glutathione we see that it's rapidly absorbed into tissues and quite bioavailable, are we sure it's actually being destroyed? For the AOEP, I think we need to see tissue tests for definitive answers. The slower release is attractive though. Given that that chart is in minutes (just noticed that), I have a feeling they are using injection for comparison rather than oral which would also absorb more slowly if taken with fiber etc. I'm skeptical that it would be totally destroyed in the GI tract, though I am sure that the gliadin protects it.

 

I think you misunderstood. It IS destroyed by the digestive track, I listed my reference in my previous post. This is based on oral capsules... Not injections. To clarify confusion for anyone else reading this...

 

That graph shows the percent of SOD activity- meaning within 10 minutes it's all gone aka destroyed by the gastrointestinal tract by the digestive process *without* a Gliadn coating.

 

BUT Superoxide Dismutase *Remains* in the system because with the magic of a gliadin capsule it is NOT destroyed by the digestive process, and hence it remains in the system and usable. 

 

If you want any benefits using SOD you need to use one with Gliadin, Niner has talked about this as well.

Edited by ImmortalSpace, 06 July 2015 - 08:59 PM.

[YOLF]

What is the graph showing? It's not showing the remaining amount of SOD, it's got to be the amount reaching the blood? All that's saying to me without the paper is that SOD gets rapidly absorbed and used within 10 minutes while glisodin gets to float around until the gliadin is stripped off of it... 

 

My argument stems mainly from things not always being what we assume as is the case with glutathione (another top level AOE). Tons of people will tell you it gets destroyed in the GI tract, then someone does tissue samples and we learn that it's rapidly absorbed and tissue levels increase by a ton. I'm just skeptical that we need to pay  several times more for glisodin. When they're testing for SOD, they're looking for SOD, when they're testing for glisodin, they're looking for glisodin. I want to see comparisons of tissue samples. For decades, they said glutathione couldn't be absorbed and yet people who were using it swore by it's efficacy and it continued to be a profitable supplement. People see benefits from SOD one way or the other, the data doesn't appear to support (from what I've seen so far) that one does anything but remain inactive and unabsorbed by tissue for a longer period of time. I'm just skeptical that this whole SOD argument is marketing hype. Other types are cheap by comparison and there are alot of different proprietary unit standards, so the doses can't even be compared by the numbers... Take both and see which one "feels" like it's doing more. I've never tried gliadin (thankfully), but there are big names swearing by extramel and others that seem to work at least subjectively.

 

 

 

[platypus]

How about pycnogenol for Sun protection?

[niner]

What is the graph showing? It's not showing the remaining amount of SOD, it's got to be the amount reaching the blood? All that's saying to me without the paper is that SOD gets rapidly absorbed and used within 10 minutes while glisodin gets to float around until the gliadin is stripped off of it...

 

It's not getting absorbed and used, it's getting destroyed.  Even with glisodin, the SOD isn't absorbed.  It stays in the gut, as far as anyone can tell.  It's doing something to certain biological markers, and has some measurable effects on humans, but we don't know how it works.  The current hypotheses involve it doing something in the gut that is transmitted to the rest of the system via a small molecule.  I don't think ordinary naked SOD has been shown to do anything useful in humans... Is there any evidence that it does?

[ImmortalSpace]

What is the graph showing? It's not showing the remaining amount of SOD, it's got to be the amount reaching the blood? All that's saying to me without the paper is that SOD gets rapidly absorbed and used within 10 minutes while glisodin gets to float around until the gliadin is stripped off of it... 

 

My argument stems mainly from things not always being what we assume as is the case with glutathione (another top level AOE). Tons of people will tell you it gets destroyed in the GI tract, then someone does tissue samples and we learn that it's rapidly absorbed and tissue levels increase by a ton. I'm just skeptical that we need to pay  several times more for glisodin. When they're testing for SOD, they're looking for SOD, when they're testing for glisodin, they're looking for glisodin. I want to see comparisons of tissue samples. For decades, they said glutathione couldn't be absorbed and yet people who were using it swore by it's efficacy and it continued to be a profitable supplement. People see benefits from SOD one way or the other, the data doesn't appear to support (from what I've seen so far) that one does anything but remain inactive and unabsorbed by tissue for a longer period of time. I'm just skeptical that this whole SOD argument is marketing hype. Other types are cheap by comparison and there are alot of different proprietary unit standards, so the doses can't even be compared by the numbers... Take both and see which one "feels" like it's doing more. I've never tried gliadin (thankfully), but there are big names swearing by extramel and others that seem to work at least subjectively.

 

 

You're misunderstood, it's showing SOD being Destroyed without gliadin. Gliadin is known to protect Superoxide Dismutase (Reference)

Before you misinform anyone else who's trying to learn about this, you should first do your research- you obviously have not.

 

"The potential benefits to health of antioxidant enzymes supplied either through dietary intake or supplementation is still a matter of controversy. The development of dietary delivery systems using wheat gliadin biopolymers as a natural carrier represents a new alternative. Combination of antioxidant enzymes with this natural carrier not only delayed their degradation (i.e. the superoxide dismutase, SOD) during the gastrointestinal digestive process, but also promoted, in vivo, the cellular defences by strengthening the antioxidant status. The effects of supplementation for 28 days with a standardized melon SOD extract either combined (Glisodin) or not with gliadin, were evaluated on various oxidative-stress biomarkers. As already described there was no change either in superoxide dismutase, catalase or glutathione peroxidase activities in blood circulation or in the liver following non-protected SOD supplementation. However, animals supplemented with Glisodin showed a significant elevation in circulated antioxidant enzymes activities, correlated with an increased resistance of red blood cells to oxidative stress-induced hemolysis. In the presence of Sin-1, a chemical donor of peroxynitrites, mitochondria from hepatocytes regularly underwent membrane depolarization as the primary biological event of the apoptosis cascade. Hepatocytes isolated from animals supplemented with Glisodin presented a delayed depolarization response and an enhanced resistance to oxidative stress-induced apoptosis. It is concluded that supplementation with gliadin-combined standardized melon SOD extract (Glisodin) promoted the cellular antioxidant status and protected against oxidative stress-induced cell death."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15742357

 

As a side note, people on Amazon reveiws report GliSODin more effective than SOD standalone.. you can even go read the subjective reviews. You aren't backing up your claims like I have. 

As a side note, you 

[ImmortalSpace]

How about pycnogenol for Sun protection?

 

GliSODin is better because it can target Super Oxidants and does not get used in the process of destroying a free radical like secondary Anti-Oxidants can and secondary anti-oxidants can't target Super Oxidants. 

I think you're far far better off with GliSODin.. don't get me wrong secondary anti oxidants are useful and necessary but primary anti-oxidants will conserve secondary anti-oxidant because they can go on several free radical destruction without being destroyed in the process. 

[aribadabar]

How about pycnogenol for Sun protection?

 

I thought lycopene was the best singlet oxygen quencher and thus the best photoprotectant among the "natural" substances?

[ImmortalSpace]

 

How about pycnogenol for Sun protection?

 

I thought lycopene was the best singlet oxygen quencher and thus the best photoprotectant among the "natural" substances?

 

 

Not for superoxidants. Only Superoxide Dismutase can destroy super oxidants and not get used in the process.

 

You're referring to a secondary antioxidant (Astaxanthin is far stronger without pro-oxidant effects) which are good for fighting off ordinary oxidants but Can not fight off Superoxide. 

[YOLF]

 

What is the graph showing? It's not showing the remaining amount of SOD, it's got to be the amount reaching the blood? All that's saying to me without the paper is that SOD gets rapidly absorbed and used within 10 minutes while glisodin gets to float around until the gliadin is stripped off of it... 

 

My argument stems mainly from things not always being what we assume as is the case with glutathione (another top level AOE). Tons of people will tell you it gets destroyed in the GI tract, then someone does tissue samples and we learn that it's rapidly absorbed and tissue levels increase by a ton. I'm just skeptical that we need to pay  several times more for glisodin. When they're testing for SOD, they're looking for SOD, when they're testing for glisodin, they're looking for glisodin. I want to see comparisons of tissue samples. For decades, they said glutathione couldn't be absorbed and yet people who were using it swore by it's efficacy and it continued to be a profitable supplement. People see benefits from SOD one way or the other, the data doesn't appear to support (from what I've seen so far) that one does anything but remain inactive and unabsorbed by tissue for a longer period of time. I'm just skeptical that this whole SOD argument is marketing hype. Other types are cheap by comparison and there are alot of different proprietary unit standards, so the doses can't even be compared by the numbers... Take both and see which one "feels" like it's doing more. I've never tried gliadin (thankfully), but there are big names swearing by extramel and others that seem to work at least subjectively.

 

 

You're misunderstood, it's showing SOD being Destroyed without gliadin. Gliadin is known to protect Superoxide Dismutase (Reference)

Before you misinform anyone else who's trying to learn about this, you should first do your research- you obviously have not.

 

"The potential benefits to health of antioxidant enzymes supplied either through dietary intake or supplementation is still a matter of controversy. The development of dietary delivery systems using wheat gliadin biopolymers as a natural carrier represents a new alternative. Combination of antioxidant enzymes with this natural carrier not only delayed their degradation (i.e. the superoxide dismutase, SOD) during the gastrointestinal digestive process, but also promoted, in vivo, the cellular defences by strengthening the antioxidant status. The effects of supplementation for 28 days with a standardized melon SOD extract either combined (Glisodin) or not with gliadin, were evaluated on various oxidative-stress biomarkers. As already described there was no change either in superoxide dismutase, catalase or glutathione peroxidase activities in blood circulation or in the liver following non-protected SOD supplementation. However, animals supplemented with Glisodin showed a significant elevation in circulated antioxidant enzymes activities, correlated with an increased resistance of red blood cells to oxidative stress-induced hemolysis. In the presence of Sin-1, a chemical donor of peroxynitrites, mitochondria from hepatocytes regularly underwent membrane depolarization as the primary biological event of the apoptosis cascade. Hepatocytes isolated from animals supplemented with Glisodin presented a delayed depolarization response and an enhanced resistance to oxidative stress-induced apoptosis. It is concluded that supplementation with gliadin-combined standardized melon SOD extract (Glisodin) promoted the cellular antioxidant status and protected against oxidative stress-induced cell death."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15742357

 

As a side note, people on Amazon reveiws report GliSODin more effective than SOD standalone.. you can even go read the subjective reviews. You aren't backing up your claims like I have. 

As a side note, you 

 

 

Sorry, not really having a scientific debate, I don't have access to the papers, just the abstracts you've linked to so far. I'm not solidly behind my point. I'm just skeptical that they're actually showing what they claim to. The peroxynitriate protection might be indicative of success, but I still can't see the methods. How long after administration of the SOD did they do the tests. I'm guessing you need it in the blood for that particular test in order to preempt the damage, otherwise the response will occur in the tissue where the SOD may have been rapidly destroyed.

 

I'm also skeptical cuz I can't see the materials and methods used to determine the speed of degradation. How were they measuring that? Was it just an equation or did they have some way of observing it?

 

To be fair, I've been using the stuff since I was an undiagnosed celiac. The benefits I've seen could well have been something to do with that.