67 replies to this topic

[Julia36]

This is pretty deep shit, scientsts have proved that a certain physical problem in QM is undecidable, i.e. it cannot be solved by *any* algorithm:

 

http://futurism.com/19474/

http://www.nature.co...ature16059.html

 

..again an indicator that QA is impossible, since it relies on everything being computable. 

 

Apologies my spellcheck doesnt seem to be working.

 

Although I hold a position on the Quantum Thoery...I think is a gambling system that has been contructed post hoc and is adjusted to always be right as more is found. A gambler with a system does this, until he is sure his equations fits al records he has, but on applying it, fails: at that point he falls back on declaring that the world is mrandom, and his system works by probability nor cauysation...it only tends to be accurate.

 

A team of determinists in roulette changed this by timing ball spin in casinos and betting on parts of thw wheel,

Games physics and philsophy have long associations, and Descartes left a small forune from gambling.

 

 

"they show that regardless of how no matter how perfectly we can mathematically describe a material on the microscopic level, we are never going to be able to predict its macroscopic behavior." from ur 1st ref.

 

In philosophy, a statement like 'could never ne known' is invalid, because you are not in control of the ever; you lack knowledge of it. It's an argument to the fuiture.

 

 

 Quantum Archaeology may be rfegarded as arguement to the future as well, but it's basic idea, that from the present you can calculate the past, is demonstrably true.

It is ised, for instance, in courts of law, where logical descriptions of what must have happened are considered good enough to execute an accused.

 

The refs you cite are to do with sizes. Knowing what is in the micrscrscopic world can never describe the macro world (it asserts).

 

QA is coming at description differently by Gridding.

 

It asserts it is possiblpe to complete The Quantum Archaeology Grid

 

which is a multi-dimension grid of all known facts - eg  the battle of hastings was fought ihn 1066 , and by drawing lines from one event to another, discover the complete grid of the past in as much detail as possible.It is illogical to assume that the macro and micro worlds are incongruent. One certainly does confirm the other, and the arbration of size is a human judgement.

 

ie there isn't ONE physics opperating at this level but another physics at that level.

 

I just heard of yet another data bank that is in construction: that of sounds on earth. This appears to be a popular version of one:

 

http://eng.universal-soundbank.com/

 

Physics laws cant be in conflict. Where they seem to conflict check your assumptions, one+ will be wrong.

 

Haldane's conjecture is from mappings in field theory.

 

But this is why philosophy and not physics is important in earlt science: you cannot make final declarations about the world.

 

Science will discover loads of things presently thouight neyond contemplation.

 

Presently we make most by human endeavour, but A.l.. is mounting a denoument of the physical world.

 

eg:

http://www.wired.com/2009/04/newtonai/

"

In just over a day, a powerful computer program accomplished a feat that took physicists centuries to complete: extrapolating the laws of motion from a pendulum’s swings.

Developed by Cornell researchers, the program deduced the natural laws without a shred of knowledge about physics or geometry."

 

 

and such discoevries are expected to become the norm with deep learning, and the already prototyping neuromorphic chips

 

 

So there are no immortal unknowns! And te biggest argument for Quantum Archaeology is that it's already being done from micro to macro successfully:

 

Facial; reconstructions from DNA have enetered police foren

sics and are higjly successful, even down to the sound of the suspect's voice.

https://www.newscien...othing-but-dna/

 

Edited by the hanged man, 24 March 2016 - 09:10 PM.

[platypus]

So why do you call it "quantum archaeology" if you simultaneously believe that QM is a bullshit incomplete theory? 

 

ps. in mathematics you can prove things and those proofs will not ever change, so in a limited sense you will be in control of the "ever"

[Julia36]

I started in Archaeology aged 12! It occrred to me that what was hidden was actually discoverable, and also the cosmos was not random, but constructed by number, order and capable of measurement (Pythagorus).

 

Quantum means small in the sense used...when coimned it was also a cool phrase! But I knew that accurate descriptions would have to include mastery of observing the sub-atomic world.

"

noun, plural quanta

 

[kwon-tuh] (Show IPA)

1.

quantity or amount:

the least quantum of evidence.

2.

a particular amount.

3.

a share or portion.

4.

a large quantity; bulk.

5.

Physics.

1. the smallest quantity of radiant energy, equal to Planck's constant times the frequency of the associated radiation.
2. the fundamental unit of a quantized physical magnitude, as angular momentum. "

Computing is improving:

http://www.singulari...ts/page129.html

In a developement tank you know all the variables and nothing can happen but what is related to the laws you set up.

 

It may be that Maxwell's view (and tHooft's0 the environment is so complex we can never describe it...but my ambit is that we can describe it past the relevaqnt level for resurrection.

 

This development tanks is not just for Life, but for all physics. Our quest is to chart the Laws and make predictions.

 

Edited by the hanged man, 24 March 2016 - 10:02 PM.

[Julia36]

We can do things -  disocver things we could before, sometimes by applying physical tools eg infrared x Rays

 

Experts had scanned the tomb to find what a British archaeologist believes could be the resting place of Queen Nefertiti, the legendary beauty and wife of Tutankhamun's father whose mummy has never been found.

 

Preliminary scans of Tutankhamun's tomb reveal "two hidden rooms behind the burial chamber" of the boy king, Antiquities Minister Mamduh al-Damati told reporters.

Read more at http://www.9news.com...LAjwEYppv4vH.99

 

 

 

[platypus]

So the latest result proves that if QM is correct, some questions are proven to be undecidable. Now, what guarantees do we have that the "correct" ultimate physical theory does not lead to similar problems? I think it's naive to assume everything can be computed even in theory, and certainly not in practice (infinitely big and fast computers will never exist). QA is a religion.

[Danail Bulgaria]

You raise 2 issues:

 

1. What constitutes a person's identity?

 

 

Ettinger has exhaustively answered this in Chapter 8 of his book The Prospect of Immortality (free online).

 

You seem to argue a person is not the same being if interchangable parts of him are replaced. This is an absurd argument used by sophists, since parts of you are being copied and replaced every second, therefore parts of you are manufacturable and replacable. "The Ship of Theseus" in philosophy goes into this.

 

2. Is Information Theory relevant in cryonics?

 

We have revived a person from cryostasis yet, but it looks probable we will, because we are building enough information about what constitutes a man, and how his systems work, but also what idiosyncratic differences are between one and and another.

 

This involves understanding information at very small levels. 5 nanometres is the smallest relevant size we think, but even if it is much smaller, the threshold for describing him will be passed as computing power rises.

 

 

Further, simulating the environment of the past -  including the people and their thoughts,- will also have a threshold of information, and that too must be passed or computing will have ceased to increase.

 

Computing is just a machine form of mathematics.

 

Histories divides between two selves the moment they proceed down different paths, ie when they split.

 

Ignoring existential risks like asteroid impacts, It is far more probable the dead are resurrected by science than that they are not!

 

in fact to have no resurrections, science would have to halt, which seems unlikely.

 

 

If is wrong in physics to see a life form as something different from non-living forms. There are just the laws of physics acting on and with energy in motion.

 

Reasoning from the cause to the effect is similar to reasoning from the effect to the cause.

 

You can build any sequence you want, within the laws of physics. True for an insect and true for a star. In time (with facilities).

 

 

 

 

 

My view of the identity is that the people are a biological system, that changes - the changing biological system, not the individual atoms, it is build from. Yet, according to me, if you don't succeed to recover the biological system from the original structure blocks, from which it was made when it has been lost, you are not recovering anything, but you are building a copy of that biological system.

To recover it, not to copy it, you have to build it from the original building blocks.

[Julia36]

 

 

My view of the identity is that the people are a biological system, that changes - the changing biological system, not the individual atoms, it is build from. Yet, according to me, if you don't succeed to recover the biological system from the original structure blocks, from which it was made when it has been lost, you are not recovering anything, but you are building a copy of that biological system.

To recover it, not to copy it, you have to build it from the original building blocks.

 

 

Doesn't matter where u recover the biological system from in science.

 

Bit muddled, though may be my understanding of ur English.

 

 

You can do this methgodically:

 

1. What is identity (Ettinger has answered it.

 

2. How do you recover that?

 

Quantum Archaeology has answered that.

 

 

 

Nexct time you want to add "+" you'd better make sure it's the original 2 or I wont accept  the answer.

 

The universe is made of order, number, and is measureable.

[Julia36]

Guilio P has some interesting ideas:

 

"

Technological Resurrection Concepts From Fedorov to Quantum Archeology

 

 

By Giulio Prisco
Turing Church

Posted: Oct 11, 2015

“[Nikolai Fedorov]’s idea that space travel might be part of a larger transhuman evolution is a familiar one today, from both science fiction and science speculation,” notes an essay titled “Resurrecting Nikolai Fedorov,” by Nader Elhefnawy. “This means not only achieving immortality, but restoring all the people who have ever walked the Earth to life so that they may share the gift as well, making the heaven of the afterlife a physical reality.”

In his film “Knocking on Heaven’s Door,” filmmaker George Carey shows how Fedorov’s ideas inspired Russian scientists and provided a powerful mystique for the Russian space program. Fedorov himself had an enigmatic personality. In his book “The Russian Cosmists: The Esoteric Futurism of Nikolai Fedorov and His Followers,” George Young describes Fedorov, with his his “active, forceful, masculine Christianity,” as “a man with a twenty-first century mind and a medieval heart.” In fact Fedorov combined a patriarchal form of Russian Christianity with a radically futurist scientific vision and (almost) Marxist emphasis on practical engineering over theoretical science.

What Was Man Created For?,” translated and edited by Elizabeth Koutaissoff and Marilyn Minto.

“The human race, all the sons of man, through the regulation of the celestial worlds, will themselves become heavenly forces governing the worlds of the Universe,” said Fedorov. He thought that future science would be able to resurrect the dead from the past:

“The gathering of the scattered dust and its reconstitution into bodies, using radiation or outlines left by the waves caused by the vibration of molecules.”

Other translated excerpts are in “The Religion of Resusciative Resurrection. “The Philosophy of the Common Task” of N. F. Fedorov,” by Cosmist philosopher Nikolai Berdyaev. I pasted below some key passages about technological resurrection and how it relates to the Cosmist vision of space colonization.

“We propose the possibility and the necessity to attain through ultimately all people the learning of and the directing of all the molecules and atoms of the external world, so as to gather the dispersed, to reunite the dissociated, i.e. to reconstitute the bodies of the fathers such as they had been before their end.”

“Insufficient for resuscitation is the sole discipline of the molecular ordering of particles; but, since they are dispersed within the expanse of the solar system, within perhaps other worlds, it is yet necessary to gather them; consequently, the question concerning resuscitation is tellurgic-cosmic.”  More>>>

http://ieet.org/inde.../prisco20151011

 

Edited by the hanged man, 26 March 2016 - 02:11 AM.