22 replies to this topic

[osini]

Hello all,

I've recently gotten a new job that I feel underqualified (or unprepared) for, which has brought back some unproductive psychological habits, mainly lack of self-esteem/self-confidence and anxiety issues (social anxiety among peers who I feel are - and definitely are, because of their experience and habits, I guess - more functional at this job). What's more, this job will have me build relationships with people and eventually interview them on video.

This is where the social anxiety part comes in. Now, normally, if I'm prepared and feel confident about my abilities, I'm not anxious at all around people. I do have a bit of a brain fog and will blank out on certain words if I'm not well rested that I'm conscious about that will exacerbate my anxieties at times.

I have resorted to seeking professional help and have started **paroxetine** (Paxil) to get things under control while I adjust. 5mg for five days, first day on 10mg today. Only side effects for me so far are diziness and nausea. No therapy as insurance will kick in after three months (if I don't get fired by then), but I'm pretty aware of what's happening to me and I'm taking steps to decrease anxiety.

Other substances I ingest are Fish oil, Vit D, some L-Theanine as needed, vitamin C, NAC, large amounts of greens for the TMG, Bacopa, and magnesium every once in a while I have recently resumed ashwagandha. I have dropped Rhodiola usage because it's an MAOI and it doesn't mix with the paroxetine. The NAC and TMG was suggested by a reddit forum member based on my 23andme results. I feel the nootropics have helped so far with keeping low-mid range stresses at bay, and are probably preventing me from having full blown panic attacks, but they are not enough. I'm afraid I'll make a stupid decision like quit before even trying and ending up jobless, in debt, and in a province that's a 13hr drive away from "home".

Now this is where the Phenibut comes in. I use Phenibut very rarely, Along with Modafinil, I've used it to plow through the final stages of my master's thesis AND to get this job. (They actually have high expectations because I've performed well in the interview and I have glowing references - so I feel like a fraud).

I'm considering using normal doses (500mg to 1g) of it for 2-3 weeks, every two days (minus the weekends) until the full dose paroxetine effects kick in. Good or bad idea? Should I be able to wean off gradually without too much of a withdrawl. The effects I got after phenibut dosing were mostly a depression state that lingers for a day or so, that's if I take it two days in a row. Now, I know I'm asking the internet for medical advice, I just wanted to know if anyone has had success with responsible usage of Phenibut. Some people make it out to be the next heroin whereas some seem to be acknowledging its potential therapeutic uses...


TL;DR: Got a new job, moved cities, low confidence, high anxiety, on paroxetine for a week now, considering Phenibut until paroxetine kicks in

[existence]

This doesn't answer your question but... Have you read about imposter syndrome?

 

I'm actually in a very similar situation myself regarding feeling inadequate for my new job, for which I moved far from home. Some days I rock it but often I feel anxious with bad brain fog and spend all day hoping nobody notices what I perceive to be poor performance.

 

It's possible that you (and I) have some legitimate concerns, but they're probably not as big of a deal as you think, and they can be overcome. I'd wager that a significant amount of your insecurity is basically imposter syndrome. It's the curse of many intelligent and self-aware people. Try to remember that some of your coworkers may be feeling the exact same way. And just as you hide your feelings from others, they do the same, so they appear to be just fine.

 

Regarding phenibut, I just went ahead and did what you're considering. After about 4 weeks, I'm now very slowly tapering. It's too soon to say whether it was a stupid idea. I'm sure you know this, but if you do decide to do this, always keep enough on hand to taper off.

[osini]

This doesn't answer your question but... Have you read about imposter syndrome?

 

I'm actually in a very similar situation myself regarding feeling inadequate for my new job, for which I moved far from home. Some days I rock it but often I feel anxious with bad brain fog and spend all day hoping nobody notices what I perceive to be poor performance.

 

It's possible that you (and I) have some legitimate concerns, but they're probably not as big of a deal as you think, and they can be overcome. I'd wager that a significant amount of your insecurity is basically imposter syndrome. It's the curse of many intelligent and self-aware people. Try to remember that some of your coworkers may be feeling the exact same way. And just as you hide your feelings from others, they do the same, so they appear to be just fine.

 

Regarding phenibut, I just went ahead and did what you're considering. After about 4 weeks, I'm now very slowly tapering. It's too soon to say whether it was a stupid idea. I'm sure you know this, but if you do decide to do this, always keep enough on hand to taper off.

 

Oh I'm quite aware of imposter syndrome. Had it all my first year of my master's, surrounded by PhD sudents (still am) who were passionate about the subject (I wasn't). Still did near the end, but I kind of isolated myself and just focused on finishing my thesis. Which was a bad idea because I should have spent more time exposing myself to these social interactions.

 

Anyways, please do keep me updated on your phenibut usage, if you remember.

[Al Capacino]

Phenibut is okay for relief in smallish dosages but long term it can hook you as you feel terrible trying to quit which can entice you to take more.
I've tended to cycle different anxiety solutions. Phenibut, kratom, kava, pregabilin and boxes of other things to experiment with to boost my mood social ability.
Out of everything I've taken, I found phenibut to be my least favourite simply due to the sedative effect...but I suppose combining it with modafinil could help there. I had one awesome night when I combined phenibut with a research chemical which has been tipped to replace modafinil, called pitolisant. What a night. I was the most supremely confident person I can remember!
Also not to dishearten you but paroxetine was the first ad I was ever on. I used it for a few years on and off in between. It's a bittersweet pill. Increased my enjoyment of things but also made me pretty suicidal and increased physical anxiety (palpitations etc).
Anyhow, good luck.

[existence]

 

Anyways, please do keep me updated on your phenibut usage, if you remember.

 

 

I just finished tapering off. I suppose I should give it a few more days to get out of my system to be sure, but it seems to have gone fairly well. Like I said, I took it extremely slowly (like 50 mg less per day).

 

There were definitely times when my anxiety spiked, but it didn't seem to relate to the dosage. There were also a few days where I had an unusual amount of physical tension, especially in my shoulders, but it didn't persist. (It might have related more to my concurrent cannabis withdrawal, which also hasn't been too bad.)

 

I was worried that I would just be slowly returning to my previous level of anxiety, since unlike you I don't have an SSRI in the mix, but I think my situation at work has improved enough that I'm actually better off now. I can't say I'd advocate it, since everyone reacts differently, but for me phenibut provided welcome assistance when I needed it.

 

Regarding the lack of replies, you may want to try the supplements forum? I've also seen a decent amount of discussion about phenibut on reddit.

[osini]

Thanks for keeping us updated. I did post on reddit, got a few replies, nothing that I didn't know though. I'll try the supplements forum as well.

 

It's week two on paroxetine/paxil (first week was 5mg, this week 10mg), and while the anxiety has subsided, the brain fog and the fatigue is at times unbearable. Whereas previously thoughts were racing through my head analysing everything and preventing me from being in the present and following conversations, now everything's slowed down. I know it's supposed to be this way though for a couple of weeks, it's just very disturbing. Thankfully I don't have a lot to do at work and I can take it easy for now. I'm not sure if I want to continue on the paroxetine, I'm almost more scared of it than I am of Phenibut. I was considering trying to keep it at the lowest dose possible, just enough so I don't freak out, but enough to feel the anxiety and work with it.

 

Ashwagandha seems to work really well with it, too, so maybe if I use a small dose of paroxetine + ashwagandha it'll be enough.

 

The phenibut is on hold for me right now, I'm waiting for a more precise scale and will try and test small doses eventually.

 

Fuck being like this though, why can't we just be stable. :(

 

I forgot about kratom and kava, I wanted to try those as well at some point.

Edited by osini, 24 October 2015 - 12:27 AM.

[Heisenburger]

So if I understand you correctly, you want to use it on alternating days and take the weekends off? In other words, Monday, Wednesday and Friday only, and only for three weeks max? And only in the 500 -1000 milligram range per dose? I doubt very much that you’ll have any problem at all. Phenibut withdrawal can be quite vicious, but for God’s sake, it’s not rock cocaine. If I told my doctor that I wanted to use Xanax in that exact same manner, he wouldn’t even bat an eyelash, and he’s pretty tight when it comes to benzos. As long as you can seriously STOP after three weeks, I don’t think you’ll experience any withdrawal at all. There are other options too. NSI-189 did absolute wonders for my self-esteem. In fact, that’s the only reason I take it. Tianeptine sodium would probably help as well, but don’t overdo it. One-hundred milligrams (1/32 of a teaspoon, lightly tamped and struck off with a sharp metal spatula) will give you a two-hour super-confident buzz that can be used when you’re really under the gun. It’s addictive, but again—it’s not rock cocaine either. Three or four times a week wouldn’t cause any serious issues. Half a milligram of etizolam might be just the ticket in an anxiety-provoking situation. That’s roughly equivalent to a pediatric dose of Xanax. No more than that though, or you’ll fall asleep at work. Etizolam is pretty hard to get addicted to. I took two milligrams almost every day for almost a year and just shrugged off the worst of the withdrawal in about five days. In two weeks it was gone completely. Nippon Pharmacy sells half-milligram tabs, or you could get the one-milligram tabs from Mimaki Family and cut them in half. The one-milligram tabs from Nippon don’t have a score line, so avoid those. I wouldn’t even bother with kava. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s essentially an inert substance. I think I remember reading somewhere that’s it’s been proven that you have to ingest about an ounce or two of the stuff to experience any real effect from it. And it only works if you do it the way the natives do—boil a fistful of the raw root in water and drink the extract. They did it once on Survivor a few years ago and showed the whole process. Everybody in the tribe was high as a kite, but it looked like a lot of work for very little benefit. If I remember right, everybody was puking their guts out afterwards.

[osini]

Thanks for your input, I'll read into the other substances you suggested as well.

The paroxetine is fucking up with my memory and brain fog, which was getting improving thanks to Bacopa (I think).

[98NSX]

Op, have you considered adding Tianeptine to your regimen?

I've added low dosages of tianeptine with Ashwagandha and Phenibut and didn't experience any adverse effects.

As far as Phenibut goes, I'm sure it effects everyone differently. 

One of my associates takes 2g+ at a time and hasn't went through any adverse side effects.

There is a tolerance build up, but this could be minimized with the use of fasoracetam from time to time.

I'm currently intaking 500-1g twice a day (one dose on the way to work and one 30 mins before I sleep).

On the weekends I don't take it.

So far, I haven't experienced anything negative from phenibut.

The two things that have really smoothed out my anxiety issues is proper sleep and not to worry.

The Phenibut is definitely a plus when it comes to sleep - I'll sleep like a baby.

 

About Kratom - Maybe it was the type of kratom I ingested or I'm not a full responder, but I experienced nothing but becoming irritable after an hour or two after taking it.

 

"Fuck being like this though, why can't we just be stable. :("

It's ok man, everyone has some kind of personal battle and we all need to find some type of solution.

 

 

[Al Capacino]

The kratom strain and sometimes even vendor does vary considerably. Like white Sumatran gives me a heap of energy before it's sedative properties take effect. I can then become a bit irritable later. Whilst red Sumatran is much more euphoric and I talk non stop for a couple of hours but then it's sedative effect is much greater than white Sumatran.
Although red ltm is a good one I've just discovered for simple anxiety relief and smooth energy. I was making all these plans to sign up to a gym and do more exercise...but then the next day came and I couldn't be bothered.

I've just started phenibut again at roughly 500mg and it is beneficial in the fact it provides anxiety relief all day.

I recently seen a psychologist whom uses mindfulness as one of her repertoire. She taught me a couple of exercises and I was quite surprised at my change in state. I highly recommend giving it ago.

[osini]

I have considered Tianeptine, I might give it a go soon, I just don't want to be mixing in too many things at once. The Ashwagandha is really helping with the anxiety, however I've had bouts of intense brain fog and fatigue, especially during the second part of my work day. It's embarrassing when speaking to people sometimes as I can't follow 100%, I feel my contributions to the conversations are a bit off and stupid. My job will be intervieweing people in front of a camera, so I'll have to think of something so that experience goes smoothly. I might just go with the Phenibut on those occasions. I have only taken Phenibut once since my last reply, and it was a 250mg dose, so nothing too dramatic. Not even sure if it's enough to be felt.

 

I'm also testing out lavender oil Silexan (CalmAid in USA and Canada), which is apparently as good as paroxetine and is prescribed for anxiety in Germany. I want to drop the paroxetine, even if it's just a 5mg dose.

 

I have also turned my exercice routine up a notch, try to go all out and raise my heart rate up.

 

I'm looking into Uridine and some other things to try and get the brain fog/fatigue under control.

[fntms]

Propranolol can be very useful at low doses (10mg) for short-term social anxiety, with no side effects.

[osini]

It's prescription only where I am, so it might be harder to get.... I do have some unused bitcoins, though....

[insearchfor]

Phenibut is great for this purpose, but for long term it will lose it's magic fairly quickly.

I've used it only few times in my life and I need months to regulate receptors for phenibut to work well and it's never be like the first time.

Try using it two to max three times a week and cycle it every two weeks.

Phenibut is safe if you're using it therapeutically, not abusing it.

[Heisenburger]

Yeah, phenibut is weird that way. Its effects are remarkable the first two or three times you take it, but they can never be duplicated, no matter how long you abstain from using it.

[osini]

Yeah, phenibut is weird that way. Its effects are remarkable the first two or three times you take it, but they can never be duplicated, no matter how long you abstain from using it.

 

I've read the same about Phenylpiracetam, which is amazing, but I've used it sparingly.

[Heisenburger]

I read an interesting blog recently which suggested that the closest you can come to a real-life ‘Limitless pill’ (AKA NZT-48) would be a combination of phenylpiracetam, modafinil, and nicotine. I have all three (although I only have adrafinil, not modafinil), but haven’t tried it yet. I also want to try making a Limitless pill’ that I would only use prior to academic and professional examinations consisting of equal amounts of modafinil, phenylpiracetam, tianeptine, and GTS-21. It would be expensive; I estimated that the cost would be over $10 a pill. BTW, does anybody know if it’s still possible to buy modafinil powder anywhere?

Edited by Heisenburger, 09 November 2015 - 03:43 AM.

[aribadabar]

 BTW, does anybody know if it’s still possible to buy modafinil powder anywhere?

Here.

[Heisenburger]

Here.

 

Excellent, thanks. I should have thought of them first. From what little feedback I have heard, they have an outstanding reputation.

 

[TheOpimizer]

Heisenburger - Would you say NSI 189 is worth all the trouble it is to get it? I'm looking specifically for social anxiety relief and greater verbal fluency, and just generally cognitive enhancement and greater motivation.

[PalmAnita]

As I've just posted in Brain Health (sorry for cross-referencing):

 

 

 

I've always been so interested to try Phenibut, but I'm always scared off by the fact that its apparently very addictive and brings on brutal withdrawal. 

Could I just keep some on hand to use if I don't feel like drinking but still want to go out and mingle?

Next obviously question is...does it cause any hangover like symptoms?

 

Well ... the same scared me off phenibut too, but now after reading up about the pharmacology and such, there is really no reason for it to be any more addictive than pregabalin. It acts basically like that with some minor baclofen-like GABA-B agonism (the Cl of baclofen likely makes the difference) but as baclofen doesn't seem to be that addictive, this can be ignored and we're left with a gabapentinoid (this term seems to be actually used).

 

They are alpha-2-delta calcium channel blockers and as such anti excitatory agents as well as there's some speculation about inducing an enzyme that converts glutamate into GABA and thus ultimately leading to more GABA -> the combination of both mechanisms makes a nasty withdrawal syndrome easily imaginable. But as it is the case with pregabalin, this could be more of a plateau / tapering issue, that one just needs to get slowly off the phenibut over the course of a few weeks or so. I'm not sure yet, but if you read the reports closely, almost all seem to go off cold-turkey and not with a good taper scheme. So maybe phenibut is better than it's reputation?

 

Pregabalin addiction seems to be a hard fact too, I've heard some horror stories about that from docs here in Germany and the opioid users seem to like it, but that's a different thing. I think there is strong evidence for the gabapentinoids to have a different and probably more favourable tolerance / dependence scheme than the benzodiazepines in regards of long-term use.

 

--

 

Last but not least, if it's available in your country, tiagabine is really worth a try! 

 

 

 

Edited by dopamimetiq, 24 November 2015 - 07:41 AM.

[osini]

I finally got some tianeptine, used it a few times, but since the paroxetine was helping keep anxiety at bay, I didn't notice much difference. I stopped taking the paroxetine, we'll see how things go from here.

 

Here's somewhat of an update

http://www.longecity...he-happy-stack/

 

 

[medievil]

Phenibut has excellent therapeutic propertys and could be a essential need for some people that dont respond to anything else, tolerance is reported to develop fast but ime alot of the therapeutic effects stay around forever, it has withdrawal issues but if you allways make sure you have some benzos like clonazepam or diazepam which ime are the only onces effective for the withdrawal and its no big deal.

 

If you want to stop, take diazepam for a few days and there ya go, taking it without anything for withdrawals around is a very stupid idea tough