8 replies to this topic

[mwl987]

I am looking to trial an antidepressant to alleviate anhedonia, social anxiety, and fatigue.  The fatigue is really my main concern, which I think is a function of major depressive disorder (pdoc, not self, diagnosed).  I say this because I've had extensive lab tests over the past year, and can't attribute the fatigue to any underlying physiological condition.

 

I've tried bupropion and sertraline; however, both have intolerable side-effects.  The bupropion induced severe anxiety, and sertraline gives me nausea.  I gave bupropion a multi-month trial, but the side-effect profile remained the same.  However, I only tried sertraline for a few days, and, since I find it hard to work (in academia) while nauseous, I stopped.  If sertraline is a good option, then I might be willing to give it a real trial.

 

Whatever antidepressant I try, it has to pair well with Adderall, which I take for ADHD-PI.  I know that amphetamines aren't good to take long-term; however, I've tried almost every other ADD medication, as well as lifestyle changes and nootropics, and amphetamine-based solutions are the only one's that seem to work for me.  I took a year-long break from meds, and no combination of nootropics, exercise, diet, and other lifestyle modifications like meditation seemed to prevent my life from imploding, and it was only once that I got back on Adderall that I was able to get my life back together.  So, I consider amphetamine the lesser of two evils.

 

Lastly, I'm in academia, so I'd prefer an antidepressant that won't impact mental abilities too much.  Bupropion made me a bit foggy, I assume because it's an anticholinergic.  This is why I asked my pdoc for sertraline, since it has limited affinity for cholingeric receptors.  

 

Any recommendations to take to my pdoc would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

 

 

 

 

[sativa]

Safe cheap antidepressants and Anti anxiety:

Lemon essential oil (5-HT3 antagonsism, 5-HT1A agonist)
Tea tree essential oil (D1 receptor)
Lavander essential oil (Linalool: GABA amongst other things)
Rosemary essential oil (AChE inhibitor)- its great, especially combined with lemon oil. This combo produces significantly increased cognition.

In case you are skeptical, remember all essential oils are pharmacologically active. They are also very cheap and safe. I get mine from eBay.

I personally use all ROA's for the oils - transdermally, orally (in a capsule, usually along with some solid food or olive oil to increase digestion) and both passively and actively inhaled.

Also, check out this link re Orexin:
http://selfhacked.co...igue-naturally/

I use olive leaf extract.

Look into lowering prolactin, though adderals dopamine agonism likely does this.

Have you considered using NMDA antagonists before bed to mitigate any adderal induced tolerance, as well as upregulation of D2 receptors?

Have you tried supplementing with Manganese? It is involved in dopamine synthesis. I got some recently and ...wow! It's bery effective!

Does your diet include unprepared grains? (Bread, pasta, oats, rye, corn etc)

What sorts of spices do you use and how much? (I am a liberal turmeric user, amongst other things. Cloves contain manganese and also contain a CB2 agonist)

Edited by sativa, 07 November 2015 - 01:13 PM.

[mwl987]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll definitely try some of those oils.  

 

My prolactin levels are pretty good based off my previous labs.  I had one value in the upper-end of the normal range, but I wasn't taking adderall at the time.

 

As for NMDA antagonists, I supplement magnesium glycinate, agmatine, and cycle huperzine a.  I am considering memantine, but the last time I tried to titrate it, the disassociation effects were too much for me.  

 

Both my multivitamin and multi-mineral supplements contain manganese.  My daily supplements are also: cdp-choline (on days when I don't take huperzine), vitamin c, methylated b-complex, fish oil, vitamin d, and whey protein.

 

I don't eat a ton of grains; I was on a strictly paleo diet for about a year, but stopped recently, and have re-introduced bread and pasta.

 

My diet doesn't include a ton of spices.  I did supplement turmeric, but I stopped when I started taking adderall again because of CYP450 inhibition.

Edited by mwl987, 07 November 2015 - 04:44 PM.

[sativa]

As for NMDA antagonists, I supplement magnesium glycinate, agmatine, and cycle huperzine a.

Both my multivitamin and multi-mineral supplements contain manganese. My daily supplements are also: cdp-choline (on days when I don't take huperzine), vitamin c, methylated b-complex, fish oil, vitamin d, and whey protein.

I don't eat a ton of grains; I was on a strictly paleo diet for about a year, but stopped recently, and have re-introduced bread and pasta.

Re essential oils - mandarin is also interesting (potential D4 activity). But possibly not necessary for your requirements. Clove oil added to the essential oil containing capsule will increase absorption and also contribute CB2 effects.

Lemon oils 5-HT3 antagonsism naturalises nausea!!! As does ~3 Datura Stramonium seeds.

Also,looking at bupropion's molecular structure, I was reminded of cinnamaldhyde from cinnamon oil. 3 drops causes adrenaline release and stimulation. (https://en.m.wikiped.../Cinnamaldehyde)

Please use common sense when dosing oils orally. Start low and titrate the dose slowly...

Re NMDA antagonists, also consider Theanine.
Good info in NMDA antagonsism here:
http://herbs.mxf.yuk...MDA-antagonists

On this line of thought, blue lotus is an excellently dopamine system "rebalancer". I have 50x extract which I occasionally take a crumb of sublingualy before bed.

Re multi's - is it vitamin D3? Also, do you supp with Zinc? Zinc is also an NMDA antagonist and 5-HT1A antagonist (and also affects the dopamine system/transporter, likely potentiating dopaminergics)

I know fish oil to be unfortunately highly prone to oxidation and rancidity due to the kinds of fatty acids it contains (PUFA's aka polyunsaturated fatty acids). Also, its fatty acid constituents potentially act as hibernation signalling compounds to the body causing it to slow down the metabolism via thyroid (which is not desirable really, unless one has an overactive thyroid I suppose)

A much better alternative than fish oil is cod liver oil. At least with CLO you get vitamin A,D,K and E which all help to minimise oxidation of the polyunsaturated fatty acids constituents.

I personally use fermented cod liver oil. I love the taste...(then again I am a flavour addict so to speak!)

Re grains, I too had a stint with paleo. Grains, unless properly prepared are detrimental to health (the exception being white rice).

Traditionally, all grains were prepared and processed in some way to maximise nutrients and minimise harmful effects. I have savoury white rice for breakfast (along with fat and protein and spices/herbs) and put a ~500g batch of rice to soak/ferment every week or so. This maximises digestibility and just makes it generally easier on my digestion.

All should ideally be fermented or sprouted.... Also, it is preferable to eat older varieties such as rye, spelt. Biona sourdough rye bread is really delicious...

Modern day wheat is arguably a "poison" - it impedes your digestion and nutrient absorption (by harming the villi that line your digestive tract, lectins play a role here) and also, some proteins metabolise into opioid peptides which trigger the opioid receptors (causing addictive behaviour)

Re spices: random info - Black pepper Inhibits Endocannabinoid Reuptake(via Inhibition of fatty acid amide hydrolase), meaning it should keep more of your natural Endocannabinoids around to feel effects from.

Re sertraline and SSRI's, have a read of these links -
http://www.planether...-happiness.html

http://herbs.mxf.yuk...to-adderallSSRI

Have you ever tried any adaptogens?

Have you looked into adrenal fatigue as being a contributing factor?

Don't just believe everything I've said above, research it for yourself via Google etc! There is lots of material out there on these topics.

Edited by sativa, 11 November 2015 - 01:45 AM.

[BadApples]

Modafinil.

 

And I know this by experience, adult ADHD diagnosed and coping with it for 30 years know.

 

I have had any SSRI, SNRI, DA, DAT, SERT you can imagine ->  Effexor was the best, but very very nasty withdrawal.

 

Stay away from Desoxyn, Benzedrine, Benzodiazepines (all)

 

To relax and sleep:   I use a 50/50 sativa/indica strain with pinene and citral), moderate, medicinal use certified.

 

I tried any supplement and none of them ever worked (yes, if you want to become a defunct couch potato with no ambitions whatsoever)

 

Peace

BA

[justabody]

To relax and sleep:   I use a 50/50 sativa/indica strain with pinene and citral), moderate, medicinal use certified.

 

 

Man, I want to live in Belgium...

 

 

OP, have you considered a gene test to figure out what meds you'd metabolize best? Something like https://genesight.com/

[BadApples]

Forgot, has anyone checked ph of your blood?  If to acidic then adderal etc does not metabolize very well (80% leaving the body)

 

In my heavy ADHD times, I could really easily do 3 or 4 times the max dose, and I slept like a log.

 

NMDA's never worked for me, I get tons of weird sideeffects, agression, I become sluggish stupid an RLS, no matter what.

 

Xyrem once worked but no go for long term either

 

 

[Junk Master]

In my case Lexapro (escitalopram) is pretty mild and mixes fine with adderall-- even takes the edge off the crash.

 

Until it pooped out, Prozac (Fluoxitine), was even a bit speedy; though not as anxiolytic.

 

You might want to think about trying Wellbutrin (Bupropion) without the Adderall.

 

Finally, if you want to go the rocket fuel route, try Venlafaxine with Adderall and keep a low dose of Clonazepam handy.

[medievil]

Lexapro if you want a normal antidepressant, bupropion, or one of those new antidepressants but i havent really looked into them.

St johns worth