152 replies to this topic

[syr_]

The C&E Ferulic, the C serum and basically everything else in skinceuticals line is overpriced.

BTW, I googled this yesterday and found this serum that looks real good, even pricewise (try to homebrew so many actives and you would not spend much less):
http://store.annabel...ultraserum.html

[liorrh]

Regarding Aloe Vera in REJUV:

The amount of aloe in REJUV cream (and almost all creams on the market) is not significant enough to cause glycation and does much more good than it does harm. It has been used traditionally for centuries for treating hives, insect stings and bites, rashes, sunburn, swelling and skin wrinkles. A friend got a chemical burn in the lab and put REJUV on it and had amazing healing. Try it on dry skin and watch how quickly you get results.

Rejuv has 16 ingredients in it, and all of them are useful. In most other creams the amount of the beneficial ingredients are small, and they fill the rest of the product with oil so it seems like you are getting more, so they use cheaper and ineffective ingredients for the bulk of it.

REJUV has no fillers, preservatives like PABA or any junk in it (like many creams out there). We now even have many dermatologists using it for their patients after cosmetic surgery, especially because the aloe is in there since it supports surgical recovery. My friend also uses it and it has helped her psoriasis after she tried everything out there.

There is research indicating that isolated components of aloe vera, such as glycoprotein, can have some effectiveness for wound healing and as an anti-irritant (Sources: Journal of Ethnopharmacology, December 1999, pages 3–37; Free-Radical Biology and Medicine, January 2000, pages 261–265; and British Journal of Dermatology, October 2001, pages 535–545).

So, I just wanted to clarify and set the record straight. Skin creams really run the gamut from cheap to expensive and high quality to crap. I think GeroNova hit the bulls eye in achieving an excellent formulation, at a very attractive price point.

With cold weather coming on, this would make an excellent wind and cold protective.

More info by clicking here.

Cheers,
Pete

Can anyone else comment on this product? I feel like this is an advertisement. I have combination dry/oily skin and its hard for me to find a good moisturizer for my face that has anti-aging properties as well. I get eczema on my cheeks in the winter, yet my nose and forehead stay oily. I have tried Energy by energy cosmetic and A perfect World by origins. The Energy makes my face flush red and irritated for about 30min to an hour. Seems to do well at times, sometimes not. The origins seems to be refreshing at first but ends up making my face oily. I'm at a loss here, and I've spent alot of money, I am tempted to buy this gernova, but I'd like to get a few opinions on it before I waste another 50 bucks.

I've had good succes with this product, economically, a homebrew is better but this is second best.

[joe_]

anybody else use the skinceuticals c e ferulic? it looks to be very good... but who knows... I am basically trying to eliminate some laugh lines. by the way, hah, this is my first post... woop... anyway I am a long time lurker (mostly the nootropic section) but generally find the information by just reading...this time wanted some more input, thanks

[shadowrun]

Just to comment -

I've been using DIY skin cream for over a year now - I developed some faint under eye wrinkles from squinting as child...It took my mom until I was 15 to buy me glasses...Amazingly enough my grades skyrocketed

CoQ10 has the best effects for me - I mix it with a little E and use it in the eye area...I now have one little eye wrinkle under both eyes...Which it seems has to be there simply because of the movement of the eyes - (I use a 3% cream with no issues - If I mix in too much E it will give me slight acne over the course of a few days - It will stain your pillow case)

I had success to a lesser extent with an Alpha Lipoic Cream - For anti aging and some effect on wrinkles - This stuff is cheap to make
(For me anything over 2% will leave redness)

Niacinamide - Clean complexion - Anti Aging - I saw no effect on wrinkling (by the time I tried it I my eye wrinkles were almost extinct - Cheaper to make than ALA lotion...So don't take my word for it)
(I've used up to 3% cream with no issues - Would a higher percentage impart more benefits?)

DMAE will def provide a boost to the firmess of the face - A good preventative for skin droop - I have very little droop but notice an effect to the point where I can pass for an 18 yr old - This effect fades within half a day but I feel it has provided long term benefit - And the tiny bit of droop I had is almost completely gone - I bought a tub of DMAE for 30 bucks - 37% DMAE so you need to account for the percentage when you add it to your base)
(anything over a 2% cream dries my face out)

As a base I use Trader Joe's Moisturizing lotion $2.99 - I do not use the other version it has mineral oil in it -The first few ingredients are
(Water, Safflower oil, Aloe Leaf juice, Glyceral Stearate, Avocado Oil)

Is the Aloe Leaf juice enough reason to drop this?

On the more expensive side I've considered -
Alba very emollient body lotion - The first few ingredients are

(chamomile recutita, echinacea purpurea, green tea, lavender, safflower oil, jojoba)

Would this be a better option?

I'm really looking for a solid base cream so any input on this topic is much appreciated -

Its amazing...I get older and I look better!
Its cheap, easy and quick - Everyone should give it a shot

I'm definately interested in Idebenone, I was wondering if anyone else thinks its an improvement over CoQ10? -
Also, any thoughts on Ubiquinol as a topical?

Any anecdotal info on HA or another substance I haven't tried? -

[health_nutty]

Shadowrun,

How old are you?

[shadowrun]

health nutty

I'm 25 - You actually became a member on my birthday (7/25)

The home-lotions definitely corrected the few visible signs of photoaging I had
They also work well as a preventative base

Getting older sucks - [wis]

[curious_sle]

no kidding.

:-)
(32 here and looks it, yuck!)

[health_nutty]

I'm 30 and am surprised at the number of young guys here that are already worried about wrinkles.

[syr_]

30 and worried :D

[shadowrun]

I'm surprised at the # of people my age and older who don't care!
(ounce of prevention vs a pound of cure)

Those few years after college (Real World)...Can really tear a guy or gal up

[tintinet]

Sun exposure is what really tears ya up (or down). Actinic dermal elastosis, lack of collagen regeneration. So carefully regulating sun exposure is key for skin.

Read a study once, IIRC, stated dermal collagen regeneration was stimulated by xylitol intake.

Clinical studies support retin-A, tazarotene topically (Vit. A analogs).

[sentinel]

In my latest DIY concoction from SkinActives I use my usual base cream (with Hyaluronic Acid etc) with Beta Glucan, Copper peptides and EGF (Epidermal Growth Factor) but also added ALA and Carnosine .

The resultant effect has been that after the initial moisturising effect my skin (particularly shave/beard line) gets dry and flaky, which is surely aging rather than keeping me in the baby soft skin to which I have become accustom.

I presume this is down to the ALA but has any body else had a similar reaction and is it likely to be "damaging" my skin or acting as some sort of peel which should produce a more youthful net affect.

Or should I be posting to Cosmopolitan,com? [lol]

Sentinel

[shadowrun]

Sentinel -

ALA has made my fine lines disappear - So I highly recommend it -
I have also heard that it may not work for all people

I have experienced the dry skin - peeling effect

You need to be careful of the percentage of ALA you use
Higher than a 3% solution will be counter productive for most people
2% works great for me
1% has provided only slight benefits

300-900 MG per ounce of base cream
300=1%
600=2%
900=3%

I assume that ALA is an acid (Alapha Lipoic Acid) -
Maybe thats why it causes dry skin and peeling in higher doses

Your DIY cream contains quite a bit of different components - They may not mix well together or they may cause a higher than anticipated acid percentage

[sentinel]

Thanks for the response. I have lowered the proportion of ALA but having done a bit of further research it would seem that high Beta Glucan percentage causes dryness with some skin types too (suprisingly) so it could be a combination thing as you suggest.

At 2% do you have visable flaking/dryness?

Sentinel

[shadowrun]

Sentinel

I get really dry if I go over 3% it caused a few zits to form
I have never flaked from it

For myself I get results at 2% - 2.5%
Above 2% the worst part is the sharp sting it causes on application - It feels like its drying my face out (like throwing a low level acid all over my face)

I put it on right before bed (face, eyes, neck) and it takes about a minute for the feeling to go away -
After I cleanse my face in the morning my face looks freakin awesome

If you want a skin tightening effect I would go with a ALA+DMAE cream -
I keep the mixed cream away from my eye area though - It caused 2 itty bitty little red dots to appear there - and it took a few days for them to go away

[sentinel]

After I cleanse my face in the morning my face looks freakin awesome

Good to hear! [lol]

I've ordered a new batch with my previous mix + some CoQ10 so I can make up a separate cream with no ALA or DMAE (Which I use once a day and doesn't seem to cause any issues) and just use it on alternate days until I find my skins level (or just drop it entirely).

Sentinel

[niteinnyc]

Has anyone tried using Pycnogenol topically?

[tintinet]

Have in the past, for a while- perhaps a sample I picked up somewhere. Don't recall much in the way of significant effects, except some buring/irritation upon application.

[wwxx]

It's a bit pricey, but Skinceuticals makes the C+E+Ferulic Acid serum. My clients love it and say they've not found anything quite as good. I can't use it because I'm very acne-prone and it's just a little too vitamin E-ish for my skin. It's in a hyaluronic acid base.

[tintinet]

Ya. Based on posts I saw here and reviews at a skin care products site. I've used it for about a month. Not bad, but dunno if it's worth the premium $$$$$....at least for me.

[krillin]

Br J Dermatol. 2007 Mar;156(3):433-9

The antiwrinkle effect of topical concentrated 2-dimethylaminoethanol involves a vacuolar cytopathology.

Morissette G, Germain L, Marceau F.

Centre de Recherche en Rhumatologie et Immunologie, Centre Hospitalier Universitaire de Quebec, Quebec QC, Canada.

BACKGROUND: The 'cosmeceutical' agent 2-dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE) is a tertiary amine found in high concentration in numerous topical antiwrinkle preparations. OBJECTIVES: We hypothesized that a 337 mmol L(-1) (3%) DMAE reservoir applied to the skin could reproduce the cytopathology induced by other amines by maintaining a millimolar drug concentration within a certain depth of the skin layers, and that vacuolar cell expansion could account for the very rapid effect on the apparent skin fullness. METHODS: Morphological and functional assays were applied to cultured rabbit dermal fibroblasts treated with tertiary amines in vitro. A morphological verification of the vacuolization caused by topical DMAE was also attempted in vivo using the inner skin of the rabbit ear and in vitro using primary cultures of human cutaneous epithelial cells. RESULTS: Fibroblasts responded to DMAE (2.5-10 mmol L(-1)) by massive vacuolization (0.5-4 h; phase contrast observations). Triethanolamine, another chemical frequently used topically, was also active in this respect (10 mmol L(-1)). The vacuolar adenosine triphosphatase inhibitor bafilomycin A1 prevented DMAE- or triethanolamine-induced vacuolization; adding bafilomycin A1 or cell washout slowly reversed the established vacuolization induced by DMAE. Further effects of DMAE in cultured fibroblasts included a moderate cytotoxicity (10 mmol L(-1)) that was abated by bafilomycin A1 cotreatment, a concentration-dependent mitotic arrest (2.5 mmol L(-1)) and transient and mild effects on cell ploidy. The epidermis of the rabbit external ear was significantly thickened and exhibited clear perinuclear swelling indicative of vacuolization in response to 3% DMAE (1 h; paraffin tissue sections). Cultured human cutaneous epithelial cells responded to DMAE by vacuolization (inhibited by bafilomycin A1 cotreatment). CONCLUSIONS: The vacuolar cytopathology induced by concentrated organic amines may be the cellular basis of the antiwrinkle effect of DMAE.

PMID: 17300230

[ageless]

vacuolar cytopathology?

[proteomist]

They're saying that vacuoles in the cells (a type of membranous compartment) swelled up substantially and abnormally under the treatment conditions. This would cause the cells to swell as well, and therefore might account for perceived anti-wrinkle effects.

An important sentence:

Further effects of DMAE in cultured fibroblasts included a moderate cytotoxicity (10 mmol L(-1)) [and] a concentration-dependent mitotic arrest (2.5 mmol L(-1)) and transient and mild effects on cell ploidy.

These are not helpful effects. However transient the induction of ploidy changes (alteration of chromosome number), the ploidy changes themselves are permanent for the altered cell and any descendants.

Aneuploidy and cancer

[shadowrun]

Guess I'll stop using DMAE then

I'm so sad :(

[proteomist]

This is the first I've looked at this issue so I'm not sure whether the concentrations used in their studies are similar to what you'd get with the topical creams. I'm not recommending for or against use, just translating their results a bit.

Guess I'll stop using DMAE then

I'm so sad :(

[shadowrun]

1-3% is the typical topical solution

DMAE is used primarily for its skin lifting effect (mini-facelift)
The effect usually lasts from 12-24 hours

Over the past year with DMAE (2%) used every other night I have noticed that these little lifting sessions last longer -

Also judging from pictures my face looks tighter and more lifted in a permanent fashion even when not applying the DMAE for weeks -

(I have increased my lean muscle mass and this could simply be based on minor fat reduction in the facial area)

If the vacuoles swell and provide the lift due to an inflamattory effect I just can't see it being good for long term use

[Shepard]

FWIW, I've recently upped my fish oil intake quite a bit to gauge any effects....and I'm one pretty man. It has improved the look of my skin considerably, and I had already tamed any real issues that I had. So, if you're looking for something cosmetic and not necessarily anti-aging, you might want to look into it. I'm not even comfortable at my current dose long term, but I might try to keep it a little higher than it was before to see if the effects stay.

[shadowrun]

Shepard

How much are you taking
- I'm currently at 1 TBS a day currently + lots of Organic EVOO at dinner

[curious_sle]

Sheesh, ultra rejuvenex (which i currently use) has DMAE :-( probably any decent cream has it i would guess. Are there any alternatives to mixing yourself? (I won't throw away the just started cream though :-) )

[Shepard]

How much are you taking
- I'm currently at 1 TBS a day currently + lots of Organic EVOO at dinner

I'm at two tablespoons of Carlson's for just under 8g EPA/DHA daily from fish oil.