32 replies to this topic

[free]

From the front page of today's wired news:

http://www.wired.com/

DuPont's Dangerous Game

DuPont buried studies that revealed risks associated with a chemical used in food containers, according to internal company documents and a whistle-blower's statements. The chemical Zonyl -- used to line candy wrappers, microwave popcorn boxes, etc. -- can rub off and get into food. Once ingested, Zonyl breaks down into perfluorooctanoic acid and its salts, known as PFOA. The Environmental Working Group released the DuPont documents Wednesday, including memos indicating Zonyl caused liver and kidney damage in test animals and leached into foods at three times the limit set by the Food and Drug Administration, the Associated Press reported. "They are toxic," said former DuPont chemical engineer Glenn Evers of the PFOA chemicals. "They get into human blood. And they are also in every one of you." DuPont maintains that PFOA poses no health risk.
-- Lewis Wallace

Zonyl is also found in pet food packaging. fast food containers, and clothing. PFOA is a "likely human carcinogen":

http://www.ewg.org/i...AB_comments.pdf

Edited by free, 17 November 2005 - 08:41 PM.

[vastman]

free...couldn't find the article on wired on Nov. 17 Indeed, searched the service and found no recent artical re: Dupont or Dupont's... please advise....

[ajnast4r]

u should probably throw out the MICROWAVE

[icyT]

Yes, assuming the microwave has harmful effects as alternative docs like Mercola would tell you. The theory does seem to have some backing, and should be explored before the public is allowed to use microwaves.

Popcorn period is just stupid. Yeah, let's take a bunch of stale kernals that we can't even chew, and heat them to insane amounts until the explode (and the nutrition dies...) and then smother them in butter and salt.

[Shepard]

Yeah, but it can be so good sometimes.

[ajnast4r]

mercola is a tool

but the microwave does destroy the nutrition content of food, i already posted some evidence in one of the other microwave threads

[xanadu]

I have seen no proof in any thread that microwaves destroy food or make it bad in any way. Yes, it does degrade nutrients to some degree but so does conventional heating. Are we to eat all food raw, is that the solution?

I agree the big companies are getting away with murder (literally) by putting harmful chems in our food. The bought and paid for FDA does little about that. They tell us aspartame and msg are perfectly good for you.

[Mind]

Are we to eat all food raw, is that the solution?

Well, raw food is better. You should at least try to eat raw fruit and veggies. The main reason western societies drifted away from raw is to combat harmful microbes. Processing food with preservatives or heat allows it to be saved for long time periods and transported long distances. These are things that make modern society go round.

As far as all the other things go, there is a lot of hype but not much harm. For an immortalist who wants to squeeze every last year out of your life, I can see why you would want to avoid unknown artificial chemicals in your food.

For the average person, most of these "killers" are just hyped up class action trial lawyers wet dreams. Don't you ever get the feeling that the public is being played like a violin by lawyers drooling over suing big corporations. I have read so many scare stories about different additives and processing chemicals that they all blur together. It is mostly hyperbole. Don't bother posting links to scary websites. I have read them all. I take them all with a grain of salt. Whether it is aspartame, msg, food coloring, flouridated water, chlorinated water, saccharine, microwaves, zonyl, teflon, ...etc. all the websites claim they all cause cancer, autism, brain damage, heart disease, alzheimers, diabetes, lupus, wupus, dupus, and hairy palms.

The thing is, if all these things were soooooooooooo dangerous, people would be dropping like flies everyday. Every single one of us has encountered or ingested these things, and we are mostly all still alive. The convenience of modern life comes with small risks.

In regards to cancer, the number one risk factor is age. Your risk goes up as you age. I have no doubt that some additives increase your cancer risk by a tiny amount, but so does a lifetime of cosmic radiation from space.

If it came down to choosing between DuPont and class action trial lawyers, I would choose DuPont every time. In my view DuPont helps grease the gears of progress while class action lawyers gum them up.

[ajnast4r]

I have seen no proof in any thread that microwaves destroy food or make it bad in any way. Yes, it does degrade nutrients to some degree but so does conventional heating. Are we to eat all food raw, is that the solution? .

10/10/2003 - The November issue of the Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture contains two studies that examined common food storage and preparation techniques. The studies showed that microwaving vegetables can destroy up to 97% of cancer-preventing antioxidants, and that blanching and freezing can destroy up to 70% of vitamins. Eating fresh fruits and vegetables, combined with vitamin and mineral supplementation, maximizes the protective effects.

In the first study, broccoli lost 97 percent of flavonoids, 74 percent of sinapics and 87 percent of caffeoyl-quinic derivatives (three different types of antioxidants) when it was microwaved. When boiled broccoli lost 66 percent of its flavonoids; when tossed in a pressure cooker, broccoli lost 47 percent of its caffeoyl-quinic acid derivatives. Steamed broccoli, on the other hand, lost only 11 percent, 0 percent and 8 percent, respectively, of flavonoids, sinapics, and caffeoyl-quinic derivatives.

When boiled the conventional way (i.e., not in a pressure-cooker), this green lost 66 percent of its flavonoids; when tossed in a pressure cooker, broccoli lost 47 percent of its caffeoyl-quinic acid derivatives.

Steamed broccoli, on the other hand, lost only 11 percent, 0 percent and 8 percent, respectively, of flavonoids, sinapics, and caffeoyl-quinic derivatives.

[rfarris]

Yeah, but what happens to steamed broccoli?

[eternaltraveler]

In every study i've seen microwave heating is no worse and sometimes beter at nutrient retention than conventional heating methods. Here are a few examples I found in about 2 seconds on pubmed that demonstrate my point

http://www.ncbi.nlm....9628&query_hl=7

http://www.ncbi.nlm....5405&query_hl=7

http://www.ncbi.nlm....4486&query_hl=7

http://www.ncbi.nlm....080&query_hl=13

[xanadu]

Aj, you casually dismiss msg and aspartame as being no worse than anything else but you are convinced microwave ovens are the devils tools. You should do a little more research on those chemicals and you would not be so cavalier. Some preservatives are supposed to be actually good for you. Some people take capsules of BHA and BHT every day. I don't but I'm not worried about trace amounts of them in food. I am worried about msg and aspartame because I know they are bad for me. They make me feel sick.

Cooking of food is also done to make it more tender and flavorfull. I eat a number of raw veggies and all my fruits are raw. Eating unprocessed food is one way to dodge the chemical factory waste they put in much of our food. Until someone shows hard proof of microwave dangers, I'm going to keep using it.

[Pablo M]

Microwaving food reduces amounts of HCAs: http://bestofcr.com/node/view/792

I do remember reading that microwaves increase AGEs in food, but I can't find a reference.

[rfarris]

I wonder if the microwave oven thing is not related to the microwaves, but instead related to the spot-heating it does. Considerably hotter than traditional cooking methods.

[xanadu]

Use a turntable with the micro and eliminate the spot heating.

[ajnast4r]

Aj, you casually dismiss msg and aspartame as being no worse than anything else but you are convinced microwave ovens are the devils tools. You should do a little more research on those chemicals and you would not be so cavalier. Some preservatives are supposed to be actually good for you. Some people take capsules of BHA and BHT every day. I don't but I'm not worried about trace amounts of them in food. I am worried about msg and aspartame because I know they are bad for me. They make me feel sick.

Cooking of food is also done to make it more tender and flavorfull. I eat a number of raw veggies and all my fruits are raw. Eating unprocessed food is one way to dodge the chemical factory waste they put in much of our food. Until someone shows hard proof of microwave dangers, I'm going to keep using it.

wtf are you talking about? i never casually dismissed msg or aspartame.. ever

btw, i just showed you proof that microwaves reduce the nutritional content of food... which imo, is a danger.

[JonesGuy]

I'm a little confused about the freezing claim. I'd have to say that about 50% of my calories come from frozen fruit and vegetables. That's a little sad for me if I'm losing a lot of my nutriet value.

[rfarris]

Use a turntable with the micro and eliminate the spot heating.

Err, not exactly. That just keeps the spot heating moving around.

[rfarris]

... i just showed you proof that microwaves reduce the nutritional content of food... which imo, is a danger.

In the sense that overcooking food reduces its nutrients. But that's not related to the fact that microwaves are involved. You could do the same thing on your stove top.

[Pablo M]

... i just showed you proof that microwaves reduce the nutritional content of food... which imo, is a danger.

In the sense that overcooking food reduces its nutrients. But that's not related to the fact that microwaves are involved. You could do the same thing on your stove top.

Ajnast4r provided a very handy quote, which I will repost for your convenience:

10/10/2003 - The November issue of the Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture contains two studies that examined common food storage and preparation techniques. The studies showed that microwaving vegetables can destroy up to 97% of cancer-preventing antioxidants, and that blanching and freezing can destroy up to 70% of vitamins. Eating fresh fruits and vegetables, combined with vitamin and mineral supplementation, maximizes the protective effects.

In the first study, broccoli lost 97 percent of flavonoids, 74 percent of sinapics and 87 percent of caffeoyl-quinic derivatives (three different types of antioxidants) when it was microwaved. When boiled broccoli lost 66 percent of its flavonoids; when tossed in a pressure cooker, broccoli lost 47 percent of its caffeoyl-quinic acid derivatives. Steamed broccoli, on the other hand, lost only 11 percent, 0 percent and 8 percent, respectively, of flavonoids, sinapics, and caffeoyl-quinic derivatives.

When boiled the conventional way (i.e., not in a pressure-cooker), this green lost 66 percent of its flavonoids; when tossed in a pressure cooker, broccoli lost 47 percent of its caffeoyl-quinic acid derivatives.

Steamed broccoli, on the other hand, lost only 11 percent, 0 percent and 8 percent, respectively, of flavonoids, sinapics, and caffeoyl-quinic derivatives. 

You could do the same thing on the stovetop, but with steaming, it would apparently require about 9 times as much cooking to reach the microwave's level of nutrient destruction.

[rfarris]

You could do the same thing on the stovetop, but with steaming, it would apparently require about 9 times as much cooking to reach the microwave's level of nutrient destruction.

But wouldn't it take nine times longer to cook the broccoli on the stovetop than it would in the microwave?

[haveblue]

Actually, as Justin pointed out, microwaves do less damage to your food than conventional heating does. It is well documented, however the general poplulation has a stigma attatched to microwaves because they use radiant energy, aka low level radiation. Radiation is a bad word to most, but it is just another form of energy. Microwaves are perfectly safe and sometimes even better than conventional heat, save for things that dry out or get tough like meats etc.

[ajnast4r]

Actually, as Justin pointed out, microwaves do less damage to your food than conventional heating does. It is well documented, however the general poplulation has a stigma attatched to microwaves because they use radiant energy, aka low level radiation. Radiation is a bad word to most, but it is just another form of energy. Microwaves are perfectly safe and sometimes even better than conventional heat, save for things that dry out or get tough like meats etc.

you must have missed what i just posted lol

[xanadu]

Use a turntable with the micro and eliminate the spot heating.

Err, not exactly. That just keeps the spot heating moving around.

Yes and that stops one spot from overheating.

Aj, do you have a link to that article? I've seen too many so called studies that claimed to have proven or disproven this and that and then later another one comes along and contradicts the first one. In that quote I don't see any info on the conditions, temps or anything else. They may have over heated the microwaved veggies and were more careful with the conventional cooking. I seriously doubt that freezing destroys any vitamins. Can anyone explain the mechanism behind that? People who don't like micros tend to sieze on anything to back up their beliefs. If this was true, why haven't we heard about it in the mainstream media or science media?

[eternaltraveler]

you must have missed what i just posted lol

In another study microwaving was the best for flavoviod retention, and in yet another study frying was.

In another study dealing with the reheating of human milk after refrigeration microwaving was better for nutrient retention than just letting it warm up. I believe I posted that one above.

I read the whole article that you posted the abstract of. The authors of your article mention "This flavonoid loss rate does not agree with that previously reported by other authors for microwaving".

Here are links to the other two studies I mentioned if you have access
http://pubs.acs.org/.../jf020330y.html
http://pubs.acs.org/.../jf960339y.html
I already posted the human milk one above.

[ajnast4r]

it wont let me read it, its asking for a PW

[wannafulfill]

To avoid zonyl, use this good eats recipe instead. It's cheaper and you can make it however you want:

1/4 cup good quality popcorn
2 teaspoons olive oil, or tea oil, enova, anything you want really
1/4 teaspoon kosher salt or popcorn salt
Sprinkle jalapeno seasoning mix
Paper lunch bag
Stapler


Toss the popcorn with half the oil, salt, and jalapeno seasoning mix in the paper bag. Fold the top of the bag over and staple the bag twice to close. Place the bag in the microwave and microwave on high for 2 minutes to 3 minutes, or until there are about 5 seconds between pops.
NOTE: Popcorn salt is a super-fine salt that is designed especially for sticking to food such as popcorn. It has the taste of regular table salt, but its granules are much finer.

[littlegreycells]

but the microwave does destroy the nutrition content of food

Any heating does to some extent. The weight of evidence that I've read suggests that microwave cooking ensures more retention of nutrients than any other method save for very light steaming.

http://www.lessemf.c...-stnds.html#FSA

[xanadu]

People who are against microwaves seem to have a religious fervor about it. No amount of evidence is going to change their minds.

[Shepard]

In my mind, microwaving is sort of in the same boat as most artificial sweeteners. Maybe is is harmless, maybe it isn't.