106 replies to this topic

[jegrx]

Do you have a reference somewhere as to the metabolites legality of l or d amphetamine and l or d methamphetamine, so, if I did pop hot, I could whip it out on them (and be more demanding on the results)?

Thanks.

[hiredavidrnow]

Me too. I this weekend is my 30th birthday. Is there any explaination why we have such a need for these supplements?

I would like to hear your thoughts on this. If you want, feel free to private message me.

Thank you!

David

Each drop = 1 mg (approx). So you are taking 4 mg a day.

Unless you are 45-50, that is probably a little much. What is your age?

I take everything on your list with deprenyl except:
Choline bitartrate (I take alpha GPC for my nootropic choline)
DMAE
Gingko
5-htp
Valerian
Desmopressin

Why are you taking deprenyl? Life extension or nootropic reason (or both)?

[teak]

Found this article which contain information about how Deprenyl compares to other drugs:

http://www.theantiag...uiddeprenyl.htm

DEPRENYL VERSUS OTHER DRUGS FOR ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE

In a trial study to compare the effectiveness of oxiracetam and deprenyl, 22 men and 18 women with mild to moderate Alzheimer's disease were tested. 10mg per day of deprenyl were given to one group and 800mg of oxiracetam were given to another group. The results showed that at these doses, deprenyl was more effective than oxiracetam in improving higher cognitive functions and reducing impairment in daily living. Deprenyl was found to be more effective with short and long-term memory as well as sustained concentration, attention, verbal fluency, and visuospacial abilities. Both drugs were well tolerated with few or no side effects at these doses.

Deprenyl was compared to phosphatidylserine in another study of 40 Alzheimer's patients. 10mg of deprenyl and 200mg of phosphatidylserine per day was given for three months. For most measures of cognition, deprenyl group did better.

Deprenyl was also compared to acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC) in forty patients with mild to moderate Alzheimer's disease. 10mg per day of deprenyl was found to be slightly more effective than ALC at 500mg twice daily. It is possible that the ALC dosage was too low. Nevertheless, both treatments were effective.

[beej]

My experiences with deprenyl have been mixed. Initally it dragged me out of a major depression and combined with ritalin into full blown mania/euphoria.
Extreamely addictive effect, way more euphoric/high than even crystal methamphetamines with the added bonus of massively increased creativity however as time went on I belive deprenyl lost it selectivity but more to the point I think it just increased dopamine levels in the synapse when combined with ritalin to the point that there was no euphoria, just massive braddycardia, HYPOtention to the point where I thought I was going to arrest.
It also effected my memory to the point where I would dose, get this effect and take myself to outside an ER I was so worried, then the effect would subside and I would go home and dose again because I had forgotten the whole experience.

I am finding now that deprenyl used intermitantly with ritalin (also used intermitantly) is valuable as an alterntive to methamphtamines recreationally but more importantly it relives the obsessive worrying I have.
My only concern at this point is possible cerebral hypertention.... I am unsure how to diagnose this.
Also I am worried about the possibble neurotoxic effects of this combo....any thoughts?

[beej]

Bump

[power.bulls.x]

i would avoid playing with systems that may play a role in adiction like dopa/meth ...
and reward system.

[beej]

Why?

[mitkat]

Why?

Because of the possibility of long-term damage to dopamine receptors and general mental unhealthiness, unfortunately. If you're going out to the ER, going home, and not remembering it, that's a bit of an episode! Any kind of amnesia you can self-inflict is terribly harmful to the brain...as in some of the worst kind of mental trauma (anyone correct me if that's untrue). Have you tried taking Acetyl-l-carnitine before? I would say start on that with some ALA/R-ALA/Alpha Lipoic Product.

[power.bulls.x]

i ve read over here of some Alzimer drug that does something simillar to l-theanine on glutamic receptors. cant remember the name but isnt used mutch over here and have no safty data on healthy pepoles but it can restore for few days the effect of meth...

tolerance in my point of view is from reduced intra-celular electrolite like magnesium... and increseaded levels of calciums and from reduced receptors pools ...

[tadfish]

whats the best deprenyl brand?
is the liquid or the tablets better?

[power.bulls.x]

sublangual one is what pharma & labs want make us think.
i would say liquid is easier to dose so it will be best.

[hiredavidrnow]

Alright

reduce your dmae intake... that was big for me... it made me more nervous. With Vinpocetine: split the dosage up for throughout the day. Same with the huperzine, divde dosage throughout the day.

I began to use Deprenyl (Selepryl brand) this morning. I used two drops in the morning and two drops in the afternoon. I'm a bit nervous with this product. How should I process to know if it work? Which dosage? Which of this stuff should I avoid to take while on deprenyl:
Aniracetam
Piracetam
Choline Bitrate
Pyritinol
DMAE
Vinpocetine
Pyritinol
Picamilon
Ginkgo biloba
Rhodial rosea
Huperzine A
Oxiracetam
Melatonine
5-HTP
Valerian
Deprenyl
Desmopressin
Alpa-GPC
Bacopa
Theamine

[doug123]

I don’t think liquid or tablets/pills have any different measure of effect – but the liquid is more precise at smaller doses. The liquid might have better bioavailability – I’m not really sure. If I were you, I would want to start out with a very small dose of deprenyl -- like 1 milligram per day to start off -- I took that much before -- and I could feel the effects. I do not take deprenyl anymore because excess dopamine has a tendency to make me terribly delusional. It’s a good idea to start out very carefully when you begin messing with your neurochemistry.

One thing a lot of folks do not know -- or are simply unaware of -- is the fact that deprenyl metabolizes partially into amphetamine and methamphetamine (1) -- so hopefully you won't be subjected to a "random" drug screening and get a bad surprise later...Or, if you are -- be sure to inform the folks performing the urine (or whatever type of fluid they take) assay that you are taking deprenyl and that the particular isomer of methamphetamine they find in the sample is a different isomer of methamphetamine than tweekers smoke/snort/inject.

The only place I know of that sells deprenyl in the liquid form is Biogenesis:

http://www.biogenesi...pi-deprenyl.asp

Yes, it may come from a Mexican pharmaceutical company; but I would not be terribly concerned about the quality of a drug coming from Cyto Pharma.

It costs about $70 USD for 300 milligrams of deprenyl. Each drop of the solution is exactly equal to 1 milligram -- so you can titrate according to your neurochemistry. Warning, however....deprenyl is not for everyone and one should be careful messing with it. Deprenyl has been used clinically to treat ADD/ADHD and has been proven as effective as Ritalin/Concerta (MPH) -- but I do not think deprenyl could hold a candle to dextroamphetmaine -- AKA d-amphetamine when it comes to really jacking up dopamine levels to gargantuan proportions.

If you do find deprenyl to be effective -- at 2.5mg -- or 5 mg -- you might want to purchase the finished product from da sense's store. It seems their product is much cheaper.

Here is Knoll's scaling for deprenyl:

Age Dosage
35-45 1 mg/ day
45-50 2 mg/ day
50-55 3 mg/ day
55-60 4 mg/ day
60-65 5 mg/ day
65-70 6 mg/ day
70-75 8 mg/ day
75-80 9 mg/ day
80 over 10mg/ day

1. Reynolds, G.P. and others. "Deprenyl is Metabolized to Methamphetamine and Amphetamine in Man" British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology. 1978:6, pp. 542-544

peace out

[morbius]

-- you might want to purchase the finished product from da sense's store.  It seems their product is much cheaper. 


peace out

You're so bullshit kamil. You slammed airsealed for weeks on your site and all of a sudden your disparaging thread where you called airsealed liars and scammers has been completely edited and you are recommending their site. I assumed your previous motive was to increase your own sales, now I don't care what your motive is. I don't care what you post or from where, I will never again believe a word you say.

edit by elrond:removed picture. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

[doug123]

Dude, morb – is it okay if I call you that, so we can be familiar? I love it when screen names get all daring and take shots at us public folk -- it's a great opportunity to point out the importance of disclosing your true identity on the Internet. And if you like silly pictures of me sticking my tongue out, so be it; I won't stop you from posting them -- want to see a cracked out pic of me that's been up on the web for over a year? I am sure others might be able to enlighten you on that one. Hey bro, I didn't stop LM from making myspace profiles on behalf either -- or from taking them down when he realized he foolishly did that sh*t from his home computer.

What's up with the editing of my posts? I'll let you know the whole story if that's what you really want. All you have to do is ask.

The airsealed topic at my forum was totally negative, dude. After that thing was read like 1000 times I figured folks got the message that some of those powders might not be 99.99% pure -- but hey, some of my powders might not be either. The take home message I wanted folks to know is that airsealed is an offshore company and the implications...so I made that clear.

Not not mention, it was a hypocritical approach on my part. A couple of folks I know hit me up on that and I saw their point.

I sell straight DNP product, and that's like...potentially hazardous.

Plus, the individual who posted at my site who was representing da sense's company at that time was not da sense; and although there were some inaccuracies in the reps statements, I don't think it is fair to da sense's company -- who I am pretty convinced delivers legitimate finished product -- to let one reps statements reflect upon the whole company. Peace out, I'm off to the gym, lat

[morbius]

Dude, morb – is it okay if I call you that, so we can be familiar?  I love it when screen names get all daring and take shots at us public folk -- it's a great opportunity to point out the importance of disclosing your true identity on the Internet.  And if you like silly pictures of me sticking my tongue out, so be it; I won't stop you from posting them --

Not not mention, it was a hypocritical approach on my part.  A couple of folks I know hit me up on that and I saw their point. 

I sell straight DNP product, and that's like...potentially hazardous.

Plus, the individual who posted at my site who was representing da sense's company at that time was not da sense; and although there were some inaccuracies in the reps statements, I don't think it is fair to da sense's company -- who I am pretty convinced delivers legitimate finished product -- to let one reps statements reflect upon the whole company.  Peace out, I'm off to the gym, lat

First of all, that is your profile pic from your website as you well know, it is public domain because you have made it so, you advertise with that picture and I was putting the face with the name. And you never "attacked" anyone? It would take the average person less than a minute on this forum to disprove that. You are the most schizophrenic person I have ever read. You say one thing and as quickly as the next post you've totally forgotten about that and done a 180. Here are some of your recent highlights:

da_sense: I brought up the issue of bias -- because you sell deprenyl -- and tout its use.  And I am not your competitor, dude; tell me one product that we both sell.  Pyritinol, is that it?

And in the mean time, I happened to mention you to sell anabolic steroids; which are very dangerous and I frown upon the fact that you sell them to anyone who lays down the cash -- couldn't you at least verify your customers are at least 18 years of age or something? 

Considering you choose to affiliate with a vendor whom called me a murderer behind my back to advance his own fraudulent agenda, ethics are already an issue.  You also recognize the vendor in question also impersonated a doctor to increase his business; but you continue to affiliate.  That is your choice -- and your morals -- not mine.  I don't have any comment about that because the implications are self-evident.

Peace.

Peace.

Meanwhile you tout and sell noots on your site, no wait, as you said someone else sells noots on your site but his name coincindentally is also adam kamil. It's not a lie if you believe it right? Also, you alternately bash and recommend airsealed.

Dude, from what I hear, da_sense does a damn good job taking care of business.

Both of these individuals take damn good care of their customers -- we all know that. 

It it just coincidental that the most assertive folks in these forums tend to be selling something?

Like yourself?

... Morbius incorrectly assumed that Adam's conclusion was that Airsealed was an all in all scam. Adam's only conclusion is that one should not import schedule 4 substances without a prescription and the individual posting on behalf of airsealed.com is unable to keep a straight story or seperate fact from fiction. That does not immediately infer that all Airsealed's products are fake, it only infers that they are in question.

We never claimed that airsealed.com is a scam....

This is the tradewinds that was not you? We? Let me guess you are legion?



No, you never claimed that adam:

"You sound like a big time counterfeiter to me. I bet all of your products are made fake. The only reason I say this is because you are brag about substandard quality and lie about standards that you do not have; and lie about legal standards as well."

"You do not know the quality of your products, so you peddle them for lower prices than respectable sources. In fact, your only assay has proven one of your products to be inferior. Then you start lying to cover your tracks"

"You continue to lie here and it is quite obvious. First; you say that your product conforms to a standard. Then you say "even if it did not." Please get your story straight. Your assay does NOT confirm the product conforms to USP standard. Then you say that the product was submitted by one of your clients to make it appear as that is the reason the purity was so low."

"You try to pretend your products are high quality when they are not."

"You lied about non disclosure in the pharmaceutical business. You probably did this to cover your tracks."

"Now I have a feeling that ALL of your products are counterfeit; because you can have anything printed on them you want."


You only said that airsealed lies and delivers tainted, low quality products, and imply rather strongly they are also counterfeit. Your narrow definition of scam is?

All direct quotes from your lengthy, weeks in the making airsealed bash thread. But wait you really weren't bashing airsealed, just their rep even though the thread was titled airsealed.com?

1. Anyone who let Adam back in and who didn't expect this is naive. Sorry but really.

Adam,

1. If you read your last posts your moods fluctuate wildly over the last 24 hours.

.

Interspersed voice of reason.





I have no idea what to tell a person like you. At least if you painted or were a musician there would be an outlet for this madness and people would say you were merely eccentric. Honestly, try writing a book or something. But you as an authority or any sort of influence is insane. There is no way to attack you, there is no target I can find. I pity you in a way.

[scottl]

MOrbius,

Adam seems to be mellowing some. Perhaps you could take a lesson.

[doug123]

Morb -- I do have a midterm Monday -- so I want off to the library soon so I want to do this real quick like. I appreciate your concern.

I try not attack people -- I attack philosophical approaches that I find erroneous -- and if an individual is lying to me and others and I am reasonably sure, I will try my very best to make that evident. I wish more folks had strong opinions about matters other than inconsistencies in others. I've had problems with my approach before -- and I've asked Scott and several members of the Leadership here to pull me up if they see any tendencies that might lead to misunderstandings.

I don't care if you post a smart ass silly picture of me on the web. However, I do not see the direct relevance to this topic. I don't think anyone else does either.

The sales of anabolics through a website that I refer an individual to purchase deprenyl is really irrelevant. I can't stop referring folks to that site just because they sell anabolics -- Biogenesis (one of the best on-line providers of supreme quality LE and nootropic products) also sells testosterone prohormones and anti-estrogens -- so does that mean I can't tell folks that Biogenesis is a good source for liquid deprenyl? Also -- just because they choose to affiliate with UN -- is that really a factor? Well, I thought about it, and no it should not be. Apparently da sense thinks that affiliation will benefit him...I don't know how he came up with that theory -- but he holds to it, so that's fine. I personally am confident Edward will be back here -- eventually -- after he grows up a little bit and states his apologies.

No, I am Adam Kamil, and I did write a rant about the issue you mentioned -- it's still there -- but invisible to the pubic. If, for some reason a lot of folks complain, I'll make them visible again. I just don't know if all that negativity benefits anyone. Most folks who read these forums already know that purity is a speculative notion and if the results are not corroborated by an independent test ones chances of ingesting harmful impurities increases exponentially.

Yes, I happen to sell nootropics too. I'm not too excited about selling them right now as it appears those of us selling these products feel it necessary to accuse others of murder behind their back -- and in public -- to ensure they retain their market share. It makes one wonder what else such individuals will do to make another buck. Impersonating an MD -- stealing the identity of other individuals -- is not exactly normal behavior. And if one of the biggest proponents of the use of smart drugs behaves in this manner it makes us all wonder if they work at increasing intelligence or if nootropics are merely effective at inducing sociopathic behavior.

My focus has pretty much always been on purity. And if some other company has certified that they sell higher quality product than I can certify, I'll send folks to them. The nootropic market is not too compelling considering there is little, if any evidence that would suggest nootropics enhance memory and learning in healthy folks. Personally, I do not think it is worth it to lose any friends over what is appears to be snake oil -- but that's just me. After all of that viral marketing, I am sure many folks are also sick of vendors hawking products at them -- and would just like to talk nootropics for a little while.

I am not selling anything -- right now. It just does not feel right -- yet. I had to deal with the government shutting down my business last year -- and that was not exactly fun -- I was breaking a law...or two...and won't ever package anything at my apartment again -- that's for sure...but I'm so sketched out about the govt. shutting me down, I am afraid to post more than a COA to sell a product. I did just set up a bottle run on mySabinsa products that I am out of stock on -- and once they arrive in inventory -- I met let everyone here know.

Tradewinds is not me. Tradewinds is a kid who contacted me via email who asked about the quality of my products. I was impressed with his observations, so I asked if he could function as a company spokesperson for a little while as I was banned from this forum previously. I paid Tradewinds approximately $150 in product to post on my behalf -- and he was very helpful. And just to clear up -- I have not posted here via proxy since last summer. I also previously hired Oversoul711 to post on behalf of the company -- and now he is managing the store.

Scott is giving open feedback -- as I mentioned I asked him for this.

As far as what you have to "tell a person like me;" I'm not too concerned about that. All you have brought to this board has been negative -- I could say negative stuff about you (oh, but you are a screen name, I almost forgot!); but I choose to focus on the bright side of things as every silver lining has a touch of grey.

Peace out.

[doug123]

Tina Turner started out with Ike -- who made her famous -- but she baled on him when she was being hurt from the relationship. I'm trying to meet you halfway. I think you could do better on your own. But that's just me.

[zoolander]

for those of you concerned about amphetamine metabolites.....perhaps consider rasagiline

Rasagiline: A second-generation monoamine oxidase type-B inhibitor for the treatment of Parkinson's disease.

Chen JJ, Ly AV.

School of Pharmacy, Loma Linda University, Loma Linda, CA.

PURPOSE: The pharmacology, pharmacokinetics, clinical efficacy, and safety of rasagiline are reviewed. SUMMARY: Rasagiline is a novel, investigational propargylamine that irreversibly and selectively inhibits monoamine oxidase type B (MAO-B). Rasagiline demonstrates complete and selective inhibition of MAO-B and is at least five times more potent than selegiline. Unlike selegiline, which is metabolized to amphetamine derivatives, rasagiline is biotransformed to the nonamphetamine compound aminoindan. Clinical studies have revealed that rasagiline is associated with improved outcomes in patients with early Parkinson's disease (PD) and also reduces "off" time in patients with moderate to advanced PD with motor fluctuations. Rasagiline is rapidly absorbed by the gastrointestinal tract and readily crosses the blood-brain barrier. The optimal therapeutic dosage is 0.5-1 mg administered orally once daily. Rasagiline appears to be well tolerated, although elderly patients may be more prone to treatment-emergent adverse cardiovascular and psychiatric effects. At the recommended therapeutic dosage of up to 1 mg once daily, tyramine restriction is unnecessary. In addition to MAO-B inhibition, rasagiline has demonstrated neuroprotective properties in experimental laboratory models. The mechanisms whereby rasagiline exerts neuroprotective effects are multifactorial and include upregulation of cellular antioxidant activity and antiapoptotic factors. CONCLUSION: Rasagiline is an investigational selective and irreversible inhibitor of MAO-B that has demonstrated efficacy and safety for the treatment of PD. Whether rasagiline is associated with clinically significant neuroprotection is the subject of ongoing clinical trials.

PMID: 16675649 [PubMed - in process]

[doug123]

We are on our own. We drop ship to UN among other companies (yes, we drop ship for several companies) and I see no problem with that, they pay on time and we have great relationship, I see no reason to deny sales to UN.

Good. As long as the affiliation does not hurt you, your business, or your customers, right? I just wanted to make sure you weren't Eddy's "bitch" or something -- [lol] that was a joke. I am sure Edward is a cool dude -- he's a smart cat -- however, I think he should perhaps go back to school for a little bit and master his grammar. English is his first language and he should master it; if anything.

Now we are way off topic. Thank you for that Link zoolander -- some folks don't want any amphetamine or methamphetamine metabolites happening to "turn up" at the wrong time. I wonder how much one must take to come up in a urine test "positive" for amphetamine or methamphetamine...

Peace.

[FunkOdyssey]

Tina Turner started out with Ike -- who made her famous -- but she baled on him when she was being hurt from the relationship. I'm trying to meet you halfway. I think you could do better on your own. But that's just me.

LOL... nice analogy Adam.

So da_sense, I heard you got a black eye last weekend? I won't buy the "I fell down the stairs" story again... is there anything you want to tell us? We're here for you man! [lol]

[doug123]

Yea, and don't forget if there was no England, there would never have been a United States; but hey, we broke off when the relationship was no longer benefiting us...or our ideals...

Funk: I am really happy you are here in this forum -- I saw your posts at the google life extension group and followed you here read some of your posts before I was allowed back and was always impressed with your keen observations. I am actually really pleased with the constituents of the Institutes's new navigator team - you, Opales, and dukenukem. You guys are all critical thinkers -- and hold strong enough opinions to feel motivated to share them.

Peace. Back to deprenyl...